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Coronovirus Lockdown Protest

Djau

Djau

Banned
The penultimate symbol of the human condition; voting against ones own self interests and refusing to accept that one's own nation is the fault people can't pay bills during standard epidemic control procedures.
 
Mr Hyde

Mr Hyde

Member
Somebody should give the rapper a record deal. Spitting dope bars like there is no tomorrow. Eminem better watch out, that complex rhyme scheme he pulled off sure is gonna make Dr Dre keep his ear to the street.
 
HellforLeather

HellforLeather

Member
lol All Gas No Brakes is not a reporter. This is what this dude does, goes to meetings/protests/festivals and just finds the craziest people he can find.
 
Phunkydiabetic

Phunkydiabetic

Banned
Nester99 said:
Dare you take a measured approach? then you are a useless do nothing centralist.
Click to expand...

Oh yes history has shown that extremes, no matter where they lie, is ALWAYS the way to go. Not like those nogoodnik centralists! How dare they not join the frothing masses on either side of them!
 
#Phonepunk#

#Phonepunk#

Banned
i support the protestors tbh. they are not making me sick. random jackasses jogging around the neighborhood and walking their dogs are more guilty of that. not that i would protest, i am a vulnerable person, but there are enough people selfishly going about their days in public without protesting for me to give a shit if a small group of loudmouths assemble in a city center where i will likely not be visiting ever.

gov't officials are not doing what they should. they are fucking up. voting is not the way to make your displeasure heard. the parties only listen to supporters. sometimes legal means are not enough. sometimes putting yourself and others at risk in order to draw attention to injustice is just what people have to do.

i understand why lots of people online wouldn't think this way, but imo it's kind of the American way. other countries are far less individualistic and more trusting of their govts. America is all about individual liberty. the gov't telling you not to leave your house is a pretty egregious thing to do imo. them not taking care of their citizens in a time of great need, it is something that is being addressed.

the media will try to demonize protesters as usual, this is what they do with all protesters. but the media is irrelevant in this case.
 
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bRacing

bRacing

Banned
HarryKS said:
It's strange to co-opt MAGA and Trump into this. This is surely a very divisive subject within the Trump supporter contingent.
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LOL what? Trump is directly encouraging these people to do this. He yelled at them to liberate the states after people rightly pointed out to him that he has no power to tell the governors what to do.
 
Moogle11

Moogle11

Banned
Djau said:
A lot of them aren't wearing masks.
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Probably a lot of anti-vaccine folk to who'll refuse it when we have one.

Oh well, these folk are getting what they want in places like GA as they've been begging and protesting to reopen. Will be social Darwinism in action is it turns out bad. I just feel bad for all the people who are trying to be safe about it who'll be forced to go back to work with these knuckleheads who aren't taking precautions to avoid getting sick or infecting others.
 
HarryKS

HarryKS

Member
bRacing said:
LOL what? Trump is directly encouraging these people to do this. He yelled at them to liberate the states after people rightly pointed out to him that he has no power to tell the governors what to do.
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He painted himself in a corner.
 
#Phonepunk#

#Phonepunk#

Banned
somehow tens of thousands of people are flocking to a beach without being given an order by Trump.

almost as if people will act stupidly even without the silly idea that they are brainwashed morons that take direct orders from someone's Twitter.
 
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M

mortal

Banned
Yes we should be responsible and do our best to follow social distancing guidelines and practice measures that will help mitigate the issue, but that's exactly what they are and should be. Guidelines. not law. History has shown us time and time and time again what happens when we trade our civil liberties for more security or the "greater good".

This is how tyranny creep happens, death by a thousand cuts, boiled frog method, etc. Government tyranny does not happen without full compliance from a passive populace ignorant about their own inalienable rights. We should know better that situations like this are often opportune for little tyrants in waiting with hard-ons for controlling and exercising their power over other humans, even when they no authority to do it.

Our ancestors have fought, bled, died for freedom and to secure our liberties. To trade more and more of our liberty away to become ever more dependent on governments for security and provision is a self fulling prophecy, and is the dynamic that leads to dire situations.
 
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Djau

Djau

Banned
Somnium said:
Yes we should be responsible and do our best to follow social distancing guidelines and practice measures that will help mitigate the issue, but that's exactly what they are and should be. Guidelines. not law. History has shown us time and time and time again what happens when we trade our civil liberties for more security or the "greater good".

This is how tyranny creep happens, death by a thousand cuts, boiled frog method, etc. Government tyranny does not happen without full compliance from a passive populace ignorant about their own inalienable rights. We should know better that situations like this are often opportune for little tyrants in waiting with hard-ons for controlling and exercising their power over other humans, even when they no authority to do it.

Our ancestors have fought, bled, died for freedom and to secure our liberties. To trade more and more of our liberty away to become ever more dependent on governments for security and provision is a self fulling prophecy, and is the dynamic that leads to dire situations.
Click to expand...

How's it feel being part of a Death Cult?
 
Moogle11

Moogle11

Banned
Zefah said:
You're really out of line with this comment in response to Somnium's post.
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Agreed, that was a dumb response. I thoroughly disagree with Somnium's post/world view, but it's well articulated. My disagreement here is largely that the shutdowns are BAD for the government. It's a HUGE decline in state and federal income tax, county and city income tax (where applicable), sales tax revenue etc. That's what lines their pockets, funds their pet projects etc. and businesses being closed also means their big donors are hurting and have less to give to their campaigns. Both of those affect politicians on both sides.

No one in the government wants to keep it shut down any longer than necessary as it hurts all their bottom lines. People on both sides are just going to disagree on how many preventable illnesses and preventable deaths are acceptable for what level of economic harm. Different people are going to put more or less credence in different models that offer different suggestions on how and when to open up. And so on. It's a bunch of tough decisions with no right answer and I'm glad I don't have to make it, and even more glad my wife and I have jobs that will let us mostly self isolate as long as we feel we need to.
 
bRacing

bRacing

Banned
#Phonepunk# said:
somehow tens of thousands of people are flocking to a beach without being given an order by Trump.

almost as if people will act stupidly even without the silly idea that they are brainwashed morons that take direct orders from someone's Twitter.
Click to expand...
Are those people attempting to liberate the beach? Are they protesting? Nope and nope. Can't Trumpslain this one away.
 
M

mortal

Banned
Moogle11 said:
I thoroughly disagree with Somnium's post/world view, but it's well articulated. My disagreement here is largely that the shutdowns are BAD for the government. It's a HUGE decline in state and federal income tax, county and city income tax (where applicable), sales tax revenue etc. That's what lines their pockets, funds their pet projects etc. and businesses being closed also means their big donors are hurting and have less to give to their campaigns. Both of those affect politicians on both sides.
Click to expand...
Thanks. It is indeed a complicated situation, but what do you thoroughly disagree with me on exactly? I actually agree with you here, so I'm not sure how it conflicts with my points.
The prolonged lockdown is bad for government because it's bad for society first and foremost. There are people working within the governments that have tendency to overreach their authority, Even if it's not always from malicious intent, I believe it's very important for a populace to be wary of that type of behavior whenever it's displayed by those we elected into power and check it.

Moogle11 said:
No one in the government wants to keep it shut down any longer than necessary as it hurts all their bottom lines.
Click to expand...
What a government would consider "necessary" will not always be aligned with the necessities of the individual person, that's my point.
People loosing their jobs and their business as a result of a prolonged enforced lockdown because what they do is not deemed an "essential service" is an example of what a government deems necessary being in conflict with that of individual.

People being fined or arrested for using public property (that they help pay for as taxpayers) because it violates guidelines for quarantine, despite haven't unbroken any laws is another example.
People being forced to break up small gatherings because of going against social distancing guidelines, despite having the right to peacefully assemble, is another example.
There are plenty of real examples of state governments in the USA, governments in the UK and in China taking things further than "necessary" at the expense of civil liberties.
 
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Moogle11

Moogle11

Banned
Somnium said:
Thanks. It is indeed a complicated situation, but what do you thoroughly disagree with me on exactly? I actually agree with you here, so I'm not sure how it conflicts with my points.
The prolonged lockdown is bad for government because it's bad for society first and foremost. There are people working within the governments that have tendency to overreach their authority, Even if it's not always from malicious intent, I believe it's very important for a populace to be wary of that type of behavior whenever it's displayed by those we elected into power and check it.


What a government would consider "necessary" will not always be aligned with the necessities of the individual person, that's my point.
People loosing their jobs and their business as a result of a prolonged enforced lockdown because what they do is not deemed an "essential service" is an example of what a government deems necessary being in conflict with that of individual.

People being fined or arrested for using public property (that they help pay for as taxpayers) because it violates guidelines for quarantine, despite haven't unbroken any laws is another example.
People being forced to break up small gatherings because of going against social distancing guidelines, despite having the right to peacefully assemble, is another example.
There are plenty of real examples of state governments in the USA, governments in the UK and in China taking things further than "necessary" at the expense of civil liberties.
Click to expand...

Put simply, I'm more of a socialist and wish we had stronger social safety nets to everyone could get decent unemployment so things can stay shut down until truly stuff while people can still pay the bills, largely funded by not spending a fucking retarded amount of GPD on the military. I also think allowing gatherings of more than 10 people is stupid if it happens in places like my city that still have active outbreaks. Public safety is more important to me than things like right to assemble in this instance, and decisions on loosening restrictions should be based on data and lifted when there's been declines for a set number of days or percent positive tests stays below a certain level for a set number of days etc. These things can't be set by panels of medical and public health experts and not left up to the whims of politicians.

We just have fundamentally different world views. I think the US largely sucks as I've said before, and wish I'd made different life decisions and left when I was younger and had the chance as I'm fairly stuck for career and family obligations now. It just is what it is and is never going to change as views like yours dominate here over the more socialist views I have. At least my wife and I have the privilege to be able to stay isolated and make good income even when our idiot governor is lifting the shelter in place state wide and banning local leaders for keeping them in place even in areas that are still hot spots. Other than having to brave the grocery store, I don't plan on being around people until there's a vaccine. Just feel terrible for all the workers who won't have that choice. Looking forward to retiring somewhere that frustrates us less and exhausting our wealth there.
 
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