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[bati]

Last week ago I got a notification that I missed payment on an invoice that I never received. Turned out it was from a former ISP where I used to have a free dial up account (no paid subscription) that came with an e-mail account. I activated this 19 years ago. During this time the company got bought by another business entity, which is now also the receiving party for the invoices. I haven't used that account in years, but apparently I activated "e-mail notification" back then. Anyway, at the start of the year they apparently changed conditions and made an email account a separate service and started charging for it. Supposedly I was notified of this via email (to the address I haven't accessed in years, and lost all credentials to), which I have no way of verifying, neither I have the original contract anymore.

The amount is not huge, it's like 3€ per month, but it's the principle that bothers me here. How are corporations allowed to change this stuff without the consent of a customer, especially since a new company took over operations between when the original contract was signed and now. And again, 19 fucking years. I forgot about dial up cca 2002 when I got my first broadband account.

Note that this is in EU, not even America where I'd expect predatory practices like this. Just blows my mind really.

 

[HRK69]

Ah, the classic "I lost acces to my account" excuse

You signed up for a service 19 years ago, activated email notifications, and then completely abandoned the account and now you're surprised that you missed a billing notice?

Also, conditions change. Companies merge, services evolve, and if you're still technically a user (even passively), they're allowed to update terms, especially if they notify you via the method you agreed to. That's pretty standard.

Cancel and move on. But don't act like this is some massive injustice lol

 

[Plies]

Cancel and move on. But don't act like this is some massive injustice lol

Pretty much this. Just tell the company to fuck off and go on about your day.

 

[SidViscous]

Surely if you didn't agree to the free service moving over to a paid service, the default behaviour is to suspend the account until you agree to the new conditions.

If you had a paid service and they've changed the pricing model so something is now an additional cost then they can presume you've agreed, if they made a fair attempt to inform you.

Also note the limitations act on debt, they can't bill you for 19 years worth of a service retroactively, any debt you have not had notice of and acknowledged, is written off after six years. So the furthest back they could try to bill you is six years worth.

 

[bati]

they're allowed to update terms

And in doing so they need to obtain consent from the other party or cancel the service. Contract is between two parties, not one.

Imagine you have an old gmail account that you no longer use and then one day you receive an invoice for it. How would you react?

 

[bati]

Surely if you didn't agree to the free service moving over to a paid service, the default behaviour is to suspend the account until you agree to the new conditions.

If you had a paid service and they've changed the pricing model so something is now an additional cost then they can presume you've agreed, if they made a fair attempt to inform you.

Also note the limitations act on debt, they can't bill you for 19 years worth of a service retroactively, any debt you have not had notice of is written off after two years.

The service was free at signing (unconditionally, ie no 2 year binding contract). I don't know what happened to dial up access, if the ISP still even provides the service, but the email part was decoupled from the original package and is now apparently paid.

Your second point is interesting, because I also find this practice scummy af. If the price changes, the user should be given an annex to the contract to sign or service rendered unavailable if they refuse. Just informing the user should not be enough and I cannot believe this practice is legal.

 

[HRK69]

And in doing so they need to obtain consent from the other party or cancel the service.

Right? because companies are legally required to get a hand-signed permission slip every time they update their terms

That's not how contract law works, and definitely not how service agreements work.

This wasn't a one-off sale , it was a continuing service. And in continuing services, unilateral updates to terms are allowed, provided notice is given. It's your responsibility to keep your contact info current, or cancel if you no longer want the service.

Contract is between two parties, not one.

Imagine you have an old gmail account that you no longer use and then one day you receive an invoice for it. How would you react?

And no, it's not like Gmail randomly sending invoices.

Gmail isn't a contractual service with a billing structure waiting to be reactivated. You're comparing apples to routers

 

[bati]

Dear god, please remove yourself from the thread until you stop guzzling neoliberal cum.

If I sign up for a free service I expect the service provider to obtain my legal signature stating that I agree with the change of terms if they want to start charging for it. Any other stance on the matter is completely idiotic.

Fyi, there was no "billing structure" attached to the original contract. It was literally only a login, phone time (dial up) was billed to the landline contract, completely separate from this one.

 

[Bojji]

Right? because companies are legally required to get a hand-signed permission slip every time they update their terms

That's not how contract law works, and definitely not how service agreements work.

This wasn't a one-off sale , it was a continuing service. And in continuing services, unilateral updates to terms are allowed, provided notice is given. It's your responsibility to keep your contact info current, or cancel if you no longer want the service.


And no, it's not like Gmail randomly sending invoices.

Gmail isn't a contractual service with a billing structure waiting to be reactivated. You're comparing apples to routers

Every time new EULA appears somewhere you have to agree to it. So how it's not normal?

He didn't signed or agreed to anything. Service should be cancelled.

 

[jshackles]

Pretty sure you could challenge that - but is it really worth your time and effort? That's a call only you can make.

Most companies (even those in America where we have far fewer consumer protections) have something along the lines of "by continuing to use this online service after such and such date, you are acknowledging that you agree to these new terms and conditions". Even that's on the shadier side, since most places will prompt you with a new EULA upon signing in, so that they have a record that you were at least presented with the terms.

I'm actually kind of impressed they were able to track you down, OP. Did the bill come in the post? Have you not moved in the last 19 years?

 

[bati]

I'm actually kind of impressed they were able to track you down, OP. Did the bill come in the post? Have you not moved in the last 19 years?

My mother still lives at the address and told me that I got the mail. Kinda makes me wonder what they would do if none of the family members were still around. Especially considering this is a notice before they sue me - for 12€. Clown world.

 

[poppabk]

And no, it's not like Gmail randomly sending invoices.

Gmail isn't a contractual service with a billing structure waiting to be reactivated. You're comparing apples to routers.

What? It is almost literally the same.
He signed up for a free isp account and got a free email service as part of the package. After 19 years of free email, one day the company decided to start charging for the free email service.
Its the same as if you signed up for a free Google account which came with a Gmail account and then one day they started billing for Gmail and sent a bill to the address they had on file.

 

[demigod]

Ah, the classic "I lost acces to my account" excuse

You signed up for a service 19 years ago, activated email notifications, and then completely abandoned the account and now you're surprised that you missed a billing notice?

Also, conditions change. Companies merge, services evolve, and if you're still technically a user (even passively), they're allowed to update terms, especially if they notify you via the method you agreed to. That's pretty standard.

Cancel and move on. But don't act like this is some massive injustice lol

 

[Mistake]

This is why you should always use virtual cards. If you pay for anything online you can set limits so companies can't charge you later. It's especially useful for predatory business practices like gym memberships

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

What? It is almost literally the same.
He signed up for a free isp account and got a free email service as part of the package. After 19 years of free email, one day the company decided to start charging for the free email service.
Its the same as if you signed up for a free Google account which came with a Gmail account and then one day they started billing for Gmail and sent a bill to the address they had on file.

Yeah, god knows how many email accounts I've signed up for over the years.

Also fuck corporations and their massive EULAs. You can't do anything these days without having to go through 40 pages of contracts. It used to be you bought a video you just put it in the console and fired it up. Now you have to sign all your rights away and also agree to indemnify and defend the publisher if it turns out that their game gives people cancer.