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Developers who fell from grace...
- Thread starter jarrod
- Start date
Sure EAD has not matched the quality of their N64 games this gen. But saying that they fell from grace is a bit much in my opinion. And the quantity arguement is bullshit look at that list again, the amont of unique actual games are similar. Any way my vote would go to Sonic team, Rare, and AM2.
Play RE4. NOW.The Take Out Bandit said:
Justin Bailey
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It changed mine.The Take Out Bandit said:
I'd agree with that but the problem isn't so much their new games "setting new standards" as it is them simply not holding up to EAD's own previous efforts. All around Mario 64 is just a better game than Mario Sunshine, same for Ocarina of Time and Major'as Mask versus The Wind Maker or Mario Kart 64 versus Double Dash. And EAD's almost entirely forgone "arcade style games" this gen too, prefering to outsource those sequels to Sega, Namco and NST. Usually for the worse too. Pikmin's great and all but I'd take EAD's N64 efforts in heartbeat.Timbuktu said:
Again, it's not so much about EAD making "revolutionary" games as it is games that are just as good as what came before. Games needed be progressive in order to match the quality of the predecessors. EAD doesn't need to set standards, they just need to meet the standard they've already set... I really hope the new Zelda does that but I won't be surprised if it falls short either.
Justin Bailey
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Yeah, MK is prolly the one game they actually improved on from its 64 counterpart.
Justin Bailey
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Not useless for co-op. And I'll just have to disagree with you on the second point. DD had much more flavor than 64, not to mention better AI.SantaCruZer said:
Infinitemadness
Member
oh stop, EAD has not fallen from grace, Sonic Team barely as well. Shiny, thats a team that has fallen. A adult humored Earthworm Jim comeback would own Conker.
Rare is definetly another that has fallen from grace. EAD has made games that are not as good when compared to their past, where Shiny and Rare have made ass and cant even be compared to their past.
Rare is definetly another that has fallen from grace. EAD has made games that are not as good when compared to their past, where Shiny and Rare have made ass and cant even be compared to their past.
It's not nostalgia... that'd be the glorification of overrated relics like Mario 3 or Zelda 3.JJConrad said:No, just no. But what does the Handheld Emporer know of consoles?
This is what happens when nostalgia battles a console that you don't own.
I've owned both a N64 and GameCube (at the same time even) and played all games mentioned extensively. Even without a N64 there's easy access to Mario 64 (on DS) or the N64 Zeldas (on GC) for comparison. EAD's just not up to par these days, it's the sad truth.
Red Scarlet
Member
Justin Bailey said:
But how do people who actually liked RE1-3/CV feel about RE4? All I ever hear is how good the game is from those who've hated the series to begin with.
Justin Bailey
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Well CVXFREAK is a known RE fanatic and he says its his favorite of the series. If you're really curious then dig through the official re4 thread.Red Scarlet said:
Red Scarlet
Member
I saw a speedrun of the game a couple weeks ago, I'm not sure if I can rent it around here (nearest rental place had a 'no M-rated games for rent' policy).
I'd love to read that topic, but it has 50 million posts.
Maybe I'll just PM CVXFREAK.
I'd love to read that topic, but it has 50 million posts.
Maybe I'll just PM CVXFREAK.
lochnesssnowman
Member
Red Scarlet said:
I haven't played RE:CV, but really enjoyed RE1/RE2 and the GC Remake as well as RE0. RE4 utterly destroys all of them. It's outrageously good.
If EAD N64 lineup is the standard of quality, I declare every developer this gen a dissapointment. I suppose that don´t reaching their level past gen it´s certainly a dissapointment, but I can´t help myself thinking "dissapointment" is not the most fair word to describe the situation, at least I wouldn´t use it.
Mario Kart 64 have interesting track designs but Mario Kart DD it´s simply more fun to play, for me, maybe is that is more focused and simple, but for it does much better its job than Mario Kart. Myself would reccomend it over MK 64 anytime.
Red Scarlet
Member
Yeah, I do that with a couple games to try to see how it is (MP1, MGS3, RE4) due to poor rental places around my area. I usually watch stuff if I'm interested in the game/have it.
ButtonMasher
Member
This i'll start a flame war but fuck it :lol
EA by far! From a cool small dev compony on the 16bit consoles to uber cookie cutter mainstream sports crap! Do they even make games anymore?
EA by far! From a cool small dev compony on the 16bit consoles to uber cookie cutter mainstream sports crap! Do they even make games anymore?
Out of all of the devs that are listed, I agree the most with EAD mainly because they more or less failed to retain any of efficiency or style from the previous generation. It took them much longer to develop this than it should have for a developer of this caliber and it could not hold its own when compared to similar games of this generation. If you were to follow them last generation, you would see that they were able to expand o ntheir games so much without losing any of their excellent efficiency, but this generation, they have been nothing less than dissapointing.
Ion Storm: way to fuck Deus Ex' sequel. Good thing you didn't call it Deus Ex 2. Rot in hell for eternity, Witchboy.
Origin: way to fuck Ultima series with Ultima 9. Even Ultima 8 was good, but 9? Total waste of franchise.
Rot in hell for eternity, Garriott.
Interplay: way to fuck Fallout with the POS console versions. At least you got what you deserved in terms of sales and reputation.
Rot in hell for eternity, Cuevas.
Origin: way to fuck Ultima series with Ultima 9. Even Ultima 8 was good, but 9? Total waste of franchise.
Rot in hell for eternity, Garriott.
Interplay: way to fuck Fallout with the POS console versions. At least you got what you deserved in terms of sales and reputation.
Rot in hell for eternity, Cuevas.
Actually, I don't think CVXFREAK really likes any of the PS1 RE games that much.
Anyway, I was a huge fan of the RE games, and I'd say that RE4 is a pretty damn good game, but does not necessarily "destroy" the other RE games (such as RE2), because they're different kind of games.
RE4 is pure action, with little of the atmosphere, scare factor or exploration of the previous RE games. RE4 has more refined and more exciting action, and bombards you with set piece after set piece. Interestingly enough, in both RE4 and the previous RE games, the challenge comes from restricted controls more than the speed or aggressiveness of the enemies (although the "human" enemies in RE4 are faster and smarter than in previous games).
The RE formula has grown stale, so I'm glad Capcom did what they did with RE4. The game also has more mainstream appeal because of its focus on action, but I can see someone missing the old formula, and not going crazy over RE4.
Anyway, I was a huge fan of the RE games, and I'd say that RE4 is a pretty damn good game, but does not necessarily "destroy" the other RE games (such as RE2), because they're different kind of games.
RE4 is pure action, with little of the atmosphere, scare factor or exploration of the previous RE games. RE4 has more refined and more exciting action, and bombards you with set piece after set piece. Interestingly enough, in both RE4 and the previous RE games, the challenge comes from restricted controls more than the speed or aggressiveness of the enemies (although the "human" enemies in RE4 are faster and smarter than in previous games).
The RE formula has grown stale, so I'm glad Capcom did what they did with RE4. The game also has more mainstream appeal because of its focus on action, but I can see someone missing the old formula, and not going crazy over RE4.
Um,SEGA has always had thier string of medicore titles from the Master Sytem up to now. Its however their console-specific titles which tend to yeild the most medicore titles vs thier arcade titles which tend to better(though they're been some arcade titles that were pretty much medicore.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
wow i cant believe ANYONE liked the n64 mario kart more than DD, it was such a boring piece of crap. Graphics blew, sense of speed blew, stupid n64 controller BLEW BAH. MK DD is second only to the original that started it all. The GC version def superior in every way...except those cheap ass koopa troopers..
I think RE4, Onimusha 3 and Viewtiful Joe alone help Capcom match their last generation.
Anyway, Miburou's right. I love RE4 to bits, but it's just too different to really "destroy" the older REs. I still maintain that RE0 is my traditional favorite, but RE4 being my favorite in a different sense.
I do like the PSone REs actually, but I don't see how anyone can prefer the original RE to the REmake, for one thing. I can see why people would like RE2 a whole lot, but it just hasn't aged as well as RE3 or RECVX from a presentation and gameplay standpoint.
Anyway, Miburou's right. I love RE4 to bits, but it's just too different to really "destroy" the older REs. I still maintain that RE0 is my traditional favorite, but RE4 being my favorite in a different sense.
I do like the PSone REs actually, but I don't see how anyone can prefer the original RE to the REmake, for one thing. I can see why people would like RE2 a whole lot, but it just hasn't aged as well as RE3 or RECVX from a presentation and gameplay standpoint.
Red Scarlet said:
I'm an RE fanatic and RE4 is the best in the series IMO. Make no mistake, this game is one of the best games ever. Yeah I'm sure there is a need for a backlash because everyone keeps jizzing over the game but seriously if any game deserves unquestionable praise, it's this one.
MassiveAttack
Banned
jett said:Every game DF developed after Tobal 2 is shit. I seriously think they just got lucky with that one.
The Bouncer is ultimately what destroyed Dream Factory as most of the staff that had worked on the Tobal series and Ehrgeiz departed the studio after creative differences between Square and DF tore things apart. The Bouncer was a year into development when the project was stopped and restarted from scratch with new staff.
Ergo, the Dream Factory that exists today has little relation to the Dream Factory of the PS1 era. Kakuto Chojin and Crimson Tears are proof enough.
Cold-Steel
Member
masud said:
Correction: EAD *should* have made Avalanche.
NST seriously needs talent because it is lacking right now.
Cold-Steel
Member
I think Nintendo in general could use two more teams similar to Retro for western development.
80% of the stuff Nintendo has pumped out this generation was geared towards the Japanese market. Wind Waker, Sunshine - you name it.
20% was Western. Prime, Echoes, Avalanche, Eternal Darkness...and only the stuff that came out of Retro could be considered *Nintendo* quality.
Nintendo does need to stiffen the leash. They need to branch out more as well. Having Namco work on Nintendo franchises is a good decision IMO. They are totally geared towards the Western audience (even though Armada was a cookie cutter copy and paste job).
80% of the stuff Nintendo has pumped out this generation was geared towards the Japanese market. Wind Waker, Sunshine - you name it.
20% was Western. Prime, Echoes, Avalanche, Eternal Darkness...and only the stuff that came out of Retro could be considered *Nintendo* quality.
Nintendo does need to stiffen the leash. They need to branch out more as well. Having Namco work on Nintendo franchises is a good decision IMO. They are totally geared towards the Western audience (even though Armada was a cookie cutter copy and paste job).
I really wouldn't consider Sunshine or WW to be geared towards the Japanese market because both Mario and Zelda are just as large in the states as they are in Japan. I think that they need to delegate their projects better. If they had given Star Fox Assault to EAD and let them finish it up in about half the time it took the Ace Combat team, then Namco would have been free to put more work into bringing Mario Kart Arcade onto the Gamecube or work on other projects. It is small decisions like these that make the difference, but as they say, hindsight is always perfect.Cold-Steel said:
Cold-Steel
Member
Ironclad_Ninja said:
Zelda's art style was definitely geared towards the Japanese market.
As for Assault, someone mentioned it earlier but I would've loved to see Retro have a go at the franchise. But I definitely agree on all your other points.
From what I've seen over at the RE IGN boards a lot of them absolutely hate RE4. The biggest complaints are the lack of a story connection to past games, no scare factor, and Capcom turning it into an all-out action game. I absolutely love the game for those reasons mentioned since I was never a big fan of past RE games aside from RE2.
We seem to disagree on the art style, but lets just leave it at that.Cold-Steel said:
I hadn't though of Retro taking a crack at SF:A. Now that I think about it, they could do a smashing job with the interior of the Arwing. My favorite part of Metroid Prime was the visor and I can just imagine how they would do the cockpit of the Arwing. Nintendo should definetly put more talent into Retro and get them working on next-gen versions of this as soon as possible.
imastalker co.
Banned
Hitmaker.
they went from Virtua Tennis, VOOT (granted only 2 games), to finishing off a shitty Crazy Taxi trilogy.
alright, so they helped with Astro Boy, and i have no idea how Key of Avalon turned out. they did some other shit, but i don't care about it so there you have it.
ok ok, so maybe they didn't fall from grace so much, but i really would've liked to have seen some more games from them. especially after VOOT and Virtua Tennis.
they went from Virtua Tennis, VOOT (granted only 2 games), to finishing off a shitty Crazy Taxi trilogy.
alright, so they helped with Astro Boy, and i have no idea how Key of Avalon turned out. they did some other shit, but i don't care about it so there you have it.
ok ok, so maybe they didn't fall from grace so much, but i really would've liked to have seen some more games from them. especially after VOOT and Virtua Tennis.
Cold-Steel
Member
Ironclad_Ninja said:We seem to disagree on the art style, but lets just leave it at that.
I hadn't though of Retro taking a crack at SF:A. Now that I think about it, they could do a smashing job with the interior of the Arwing. My favorite part of Metroid Prime was the visor and I can just imagine how they would do the cockpit of the Arwing. Nintendo should definetly put more talent into Retro and get them working on next-gen versions of this as soon as possible.
Star Fox has huge Western appeal if the game could be executed properly. Just look at 64 - the game did huge numbers in the states because there was nothing on the market like it (plus the Rumble pack helped).
I think if Star Fox was slightly edgier and took it's content more seriously (instead of being very colorful and cheery) the game could be a smash franchise.
Namco was on the right track. They just didn't push the boundaries.
If Nintendo had pushed Namco to really tighten everything up, we could have had an excellent game in SF: A. Imagine these huge battles. Ships flying overhead and all you have is a rocket launcher. It could be excellent but the gameplay doesn't accomodate well for it. Namco did have some great ideas like the levels where you have to multitask between on-foot and vehicles but they just weren't pushed hard enough. Nintendo really could use a Yamauchi-like dictatorship again. I like that they are allowing other companies to develop their games but they need to keep a tight watch over them and make sure they do justice to the franchise.Cold-Steel said:
Cold-Steel
Member
Ironclad_Ninja said:
Totally, although I don't think it had to do with a tight leash.
The game lived up to Star Fox standards. I just think the budget allocated to the team was in all honesty to do a copy/paste job and earn a quick buck.
Yeah I agree. They were also given way too long to work on the game. I think they pushed it down on the priority level. The game lived up to my standards and I have been playing Star Fox since the SNES but I really think that if they are going to change the formula so much, they really need to put more polish into it. Something new to a franchise needs to be done right, it should not just be an afterthought. Hopefully in the future, Nintendo as a whole will be more mindful of this.Cold-Steel said:
Cold-Steel
Member
Ironclad_Ninja said:
Yeah, they also need to get away from the ground mechanics. Doesn't anyone learn from Star Wars: Rebel Strike?
Keep it vehicles only. Star Fox vehicles kick ass.
Oh god, the ground portions of Rebel Strike were atrocious. :lolCold-Steel said:
If they keep it vehicles only, then they really need to make sure the vehicles control well. I prefer the way the Arwing and Landmaster controlled in SF 64. They felt like they had more weight to them. They acted like how those vehicles would control in a real-life environment. The vehicles in SF: A felt weightless and just didn't control the way they should have. Overall the game could have used more polish but that point is moot.