Bojji
Gold Member
It's from TAA here so it won't get fixed most likely.
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DF: Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth - PlayStation 5 - The FULL Digital Foundry Tech Review
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
It's from TAA here so it won't get fixed most likely.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Star wars is also UE4 and they were able to use RTGI to great effect. Whats frustrating is that they are targeting native 4k so even if using RTGI cuts their resolution by half, i think it wouldve been way better for visual fidelity.
Hell, i think Rt shadows wouldve solved a lot of the issues and that is maybe a 5% hit on the GPU.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Dont play in 60 fps mode man. its fucking broken.Ok this is where they send you to show off photo mode. 3 images from 3 angles so I haven't cherry picked a bad view. Unbelievable beauty - a real scenic spot indeed.. (is what I would say if this was a PS3 game):
Other parts that naturally look like they should be impressive spots look like this:
And textures can either fail to load or look like something from the PS2 era even in cutscenes:
You guys have to get used to playing in 30 fps. its frustrating seeing posts like this in every thread. 60 fps modes this gen are fucked in most games. Just set your ps5 to quality mode and never look back. you will never have to adjust. the game is perfectly playabale in 30 fps. just dont switch back and forth.
Here are my shots. textures are fine in the quality mode. Ground level detail is rather impressive. Draw distance is massive. There are other issues like poor GI and shadows, and some very inconsistent looking areas but im not seeing the same issues you are pointing out.
Lethal01
Member
The textures in Perfomance are the same as graphics, combat is way better at 60fps if there were a mode that would atomatically switch to 30fps out of combat maybe it would be worth it.
They already have 2 teams working on learning and making games in UE5, sadly the engine just wasnt ready , Having this team figure out how to backport RT into UE4 ontop of all the other features they already had to do to get an open world working in it was probably just too much and could risk causing a huge delay or shifting the issues with the game going from noticeable but ignorable to most into causing actual game breaking issues.
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yamaci17
Member
textures still look horrible in those 30 fps shots, i have no idea what this person is thinking at this point
its clear its a game issue but i have hard time understanding why would anyone try to make some sense out of it or claim they look fine lmao (not to mention that person was an avid 30 fps hater himself, constantly saying how he built a PC just so he can double the PS5's 30 FPS modes.)
this is also oxymoron logic: if anything 4k 30 fps mode needs more VRAM for the higher resolution buffer so technically it is not possible for a quality mode to have better textures over its performance mode. if anything, one should expect better texture quality at lower resolutions because VRAM load of the engine will be reduced at lower resolutions so that higher quality textures can be streamed. only difference is probably how blurry TAA gets at in this game at lower resolution so he probably associates blurry output with lower quality textures. (considering he has no clue how GPU boundness work, how CPU boundness work and lacks a fundamental understanding of how upscalers operate, I'm not that surprised he keeps spreadng misinformation in other areas such as textures/texture streaming etc. as well)
even digital foundry often used to believe in this. nowadays they're not doing this mistake. they claimed ps4 pro had higher qualtiy textures over ps4 in rdr 2 but in essence both ran the same textures, it was ps4 just being blurry. we've seen this in last of us part 1 4k mode on ps5 where some people claimed it had better textures on its quality mode due to game appearing sharper/cleaner due to higher resolution. finally they didnt do the same mistake this time.
clarity =/= texture quality. yes, a more sharper image at higher resolution will appear better to the eye, but textures are same. they maybe go from looking horrible to less horrible, but they still look horrible. if textures were decent, they would just look decent in performance mode too.
here's an educational example:
these are exact same textures, literally the same. only reason they appear different is because temporal blur blurs the texture more at lower resolution.
this is what actual "lower quality" textures look like or should look like. in rebirth, game is just more blurry and everything appears more blurry in performance mode. how much can it be improved is questionable and I don't care about that part
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xcalibersa
Member
Days gone looks so much better in similar environments as ff7.
yamaci17
Member
distance rock textures in this one definitely looks much better than anything posted from rebirthDays gone looks so much better in similar environments as ff7.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Days gone looks so much better in similar environments as ff7.
It's running at a higher resolution on PS5 as well at 60fps. Days Gone is 50% of 4K checkerboarded up to full 4K.
yamaci17
Member
this is a specific type of ghosting that almost no engine could solve yet (not one that I remember)
most temporal solutions fail colossaly when there's high frequency patterns within the way of motion vectors of the objects (characters or their swords in this instance). these include stuff such as grates, rocky sands and carpets and so on
(this video doesn't do it justice, it was much worse in actual gameplay. ps5 encoding is whack)
its an issue i observed consistently in almost all TAA-based engines. even the most optimized ones suffer from this specific type of ghosting. (dlss can't fix this specific type of ghosting either)
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flying_sq
Member
Where do you get that gun? I'm playing through the game for the first time right now.Days gone looks so much better in similar environments as ff7.
winjer
Gold Member
It's automatically unlocked after defeating 60% of total hordes in the game.
Zathalus
Member
The game is indeed amazing, but it's visually all over the place. Geometry, animations, characters, and particle effects are all fantastic but lighting, shadows, and some textures look extremely poor. It feels like they were aiming for this high visual fidelity but overestimated themselves or the hardware and then were forced to make cutbacks. I really hope the Pro/PC version makes some improvements.
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This looks worse that FFVIIR Intergrade overall, and quite significantly even in some areas
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
In the interest of discussion, I'll also keep my technical gripes with the game here instead of posting them in the OT.
I am just .. blown away at how a game with this high production has so many technical shortcomings. All the below images are from the Graphics mode.
1. Low resolution assets are peppered everywhere.
--
2. There is seemingly very little to no ambient occlusion and a lot of lights don't cast any shadows.
--
3. The lighting can have it's .. moments ..
This is me standing in a shaded area behind a mountain cover.
--
The only reason I think some users were saying that the Junon area looks better is because they use moody golden hour lighting there, which makes anything look more aesthetically pleasing.
I am just .. blown away at how a game with this high production has so many technical shortcomings. All the below images are from the Graphics mode.
1. Low resolution assets are peppered everywhere.
--
2. There is seemingly very little to no ambient occlusion and a lot of lights don't cast any shadows.
--
3. The lighting can have it's .. moments ..
This is me standing in a shaded area behind a mountain cover.
--
The only reason I think some users were saying that the Junon area looks better is because they use moody golden hour lighting there, which makes anything look more aesthetically pleasing.
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Yeah, apart from terrain geometry (which is higher than what you could find last gen), the game is far behind the best looking PS4 games imho, with general lighting and textures being really poor.In the interest of discussion, I'll also keep my technical gripes with the game here instead of posting them in the OT.
I am just .. blown away at how a game with this high production has so many technical shortcomings. All the below images are from the Graphics mode.
1. Low resolution assets are peppered everywhere.
--
2. There is seemingly very little to no ambient occlusion and a lot of lights don't cast any shadows.
--
3. The lighting can have it's .. moments ..
This is me standing in a shaded area behind a mountain cover.
--
The only reason I think some users were saying that the Junon area looks better is because they use moody golden hour lighting there, which makes anything look more aesthetically pleasing.
It still is nice to look at and is carried by a strong art direction, but FFXVI looked much more next gen imho (even with its flaws)
Fbh
Gold Member
Graphics mode looks similar to Integrade, though as shown in the DF video there are some areas where it's an upgrade and some where it's a downgrade.
Performance mode looks like if you smeared a tube of vaseline all over your TV when you are playing Integrade in performance mode. There's an obvious drop in image quality
xcalibersa
Member
This game really needed more time or at least some experts at epic helping out. In no way is this limited to ps5 hardware considering the image quality of some open world games currently on the system.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Think far more asset variety in FF7, along with having 5 or more high poly character models following you around in the open world to render. Special effects in battles etc.... They're vastly different games in terms of what's being rendered and what's using up the computing power.Days gone looks so much better in similar environments as ff7.
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Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
They're also a generation apart. Days Gone was running on 5GB usable VRAM and a much weaker GPU. You'd assume the new generation exclusive game would at least match the visual quality of the previous game (FFVII R)if it's going to push an open world but Rebirth has worse tech compared to the 2020 game in some notable areas.
No idea why either. It could look better easily...
Lethal01
Member
I understand the feeling and feel rebirth could be better, but a 2x or 3x boost in power is not nearly as much as people think it is.
Again, just them maintaining remake graphics and boosting the world scale would be more than enough to eat up most of the additional graphcial power, add ontop on that the game having to have your entire party of 7, with upgraded textures and models, plus their chocobos, following you at all times.
Rebirth in almost all cases is doing much more graphically than remake even if there are times when it looks bad, there were also time when remake looked terrible.
Bear in mind I'm not saying it cant be better, but the game is obviously a big step up from the first game..
DeaDPo0L84
Member
Watching my wife play when I got home from work and she said she had to switch to performance mode due to getting a headache trying to play through quality mode. I'm truly happy for those who can push through this and enjoy the story side of things. But if I'm going to spend 100+ hours in a game I'll wait for the inevitable version with no concessions.
Bojji
Gold Member
Performance mode is fine in disc 1.0 version. I will not switch to graphics to torture myself with power point slideshow and not patch it until SE fix their mistake with first patch.
Low Moral Fibre
Member
How do textures like this even get into a 2024 AAA game? This isn't some random spot that you aren't meant to go to the main quest literally brings you to this inn! These are PS2 level textures...
I do think this is a great game but man DF have really gone easy on it as it can look like absolute shit.
I do think this is a great game but man DF have really gone easy on it as it can look like absolute shit.
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elbourreau
Member
The persons that authored those material doesn't feel any bit of shame on how bad it looks? I would feel ashamed to be honest and makes me mad that, first, someone made it and by all counts decided it was even average to call it done, second, the person that approved this work, how this can even pass?
I've the feeling that whoever worked on this is long gone from SE, most probably a junior.
I've the feeling that whoever worked on this is long gone from SE, most probably a junior.
Wolfpact1983
Member
You mean an AAAA gameHow do textures like this even get into a 2024 AAA game? This isn't some random spot that you aren't meant to go to the main quest literally brings you to this inn! These are PS2 level textures...
I do think this is a great game but man DF have really gone easy on it as it can look like absolute shit.
chromatic9
Member
SE weren't lying about HD towns.
DeaDPo0L84
Member
She was about to quit playing last night when using quality mode. She switched to performance mode and ended up playing for another 2-3 hours. I know some people are absolutely fine with 30fps, but when you've become used to 60-120fps on PC playing various games it can feel like a real step back.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
How do textures like this even get into a 2024 AAA game? This isn't some random spot that you aren't meant to go to the main quest literally brings you to this inn! These are PS2 level textures...
I do think this is a great game but man DF have really gone easy on it as it can look like absolute shit.
Those walls look like
For all the other criticisms I have, this is one I'll give it to them. Kalm was very dense and looked great in its HD reimagining. I haven't entered Junon yet so can't comment on that.
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Bojji
Gold Member
Yeah I can't stand 30fps without motion blur. It can be playable with motion blur but 60fps is always preferable.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
For what it's worth, I'm continuing to play this in the 30 FPS mode. If you don't change between modes and just stick to one, your eyes get used to it after a few minutes. I experimented with the Performance mode in the demo and knew it wasn't for me for this game, and haven't changed from Graphics mode since starting.
But, yes, I do agree 100% that there should have been camera-based motion blur in the game too. Best case scenario is a motion blur selector like the one they added in FF16, which let you pick and choose your comfort level.
The artful mincer
Member
No it doesn't. Look at that bland ass boring environment. The asset variety and drawn distance in Rebirth is off the charts which makes it far more visually pleasing when playing it like a normal human being and not crying about every dodgy texture you see.Days gone looks so much better in similar environments as ff7.
I don't know when ground and wall textures were the most important thing for a games graphics yet here we are.
Days Gone looks like brown bland dog turd in comparison to Rebirth.
The artful mincer
Member
Why are you the only reasonable chap discussing graphics these days!Dont play in 60 fps mode man. its fucking broken.
You guys have to get used to playing in 30 fps. its frustrating seeing posts like this in every thread. 60 fps modes this gen are fucked in most games. Just set your ps5 to quality mode and never look back. you will never have to adjust. the game is perfectly playabale in 30 fps. just dont switch back and forth.
Here are my shots. textures are fine in the quality mode. Ground level detail is rather impressive. Draw distance is massive. There are other issues like poor GI and shadows, and some very inconsistent looking areas but im not seeing the same issues you are pointing out.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
IDK man intergrade was basically a corridor game can't really compare with open world.
Low Moral Fibre
Member
It's not just one or two bad textures or models in out of the way places, if you are paying attention at all the quality of textures and models ranges from good to laughable all in the same zone. Even though the peak is well below the best games around it is still somehow one of the most inconsistent games I've ever seen.
Like some of these textures seem impossibly low quality - how do you even go about making wood textures that bad with the software we have these days? Is there something broken with the game? Where have those 140gb gone to?
Like some of these textures seem impossibly low quality - how do you even go about making wood textures that bad with the software we have these days? Is there something broken with the game? Where have those 140gb gone to?
Bojji
Gold Member
It's not just one or two bad textures or models in out of the way places, if you are paying attention at all the quality of textures and models ranges from good to laughable all in the same zone. Even though the peak is well below the best games around it is still somehow one of the most inconsistent games I've ever seen.
Like some of these textures seem impossibly low quality - how do you even go about making wood textures that bad with the software we have these days? Is there something broken with the game? Where have those 140gb gone to?
Yeah I'm in the first city right now and it looks like FFXIII in places.
KuraiShidosha
Member
An Oliver review, guess I'm listening to this one muted with subtitles.
Kings Field
Member
Only got to play about 2 hours on launch on Quality mode and I am enjoying it. Playing on a CX also.
Will try performance mode later.
Will try performance mode later.
Luipadre
Member
Dont. It looks like shit it and when you switch back to quality, that will feel like shit at the beginning too,. Just stick with quality
balls of snow
Gold Member
In the grasslands, I guess playing older games throughout the years makes me immune to bad textures. So long as its crystal fucking clear at faux 4k I could give a damn. Blurriness is the mind killer.
Stuart360
Member
To be fair some of those bad textures look more like textures that havent loaded in properly.
There is no reason to have such low rez textures as long as you have enough vram (which PS5 should) as lowing textures has almost no effect on performence (again as long as you have enough vram).
If these textures dont eventually load in, i'd say this def was supposed to launch on PS4 too at some point.
There is no reason to have such low rez textures as long as you have enough vram (which PS5 should) as lowing textures has almost no effect on performence (again as long as you have enough vram).
If these textures dont eventually load in, i'd say this def was supposed to launch on PS4 too at some point.
LordOfChaos
Member
Why can this company not get over the weird random low res texture issues that were the same in their 4 year old game on PS4 as they are on a new PS5 game now?
It's a weird mix of impressive visuals at times betrayed by some quite rough patches like that
It's a weird mix of impressive visuals at times betrayed by some quite rough patches like that