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[Jackpot]

The thread about the jogger reminded me of this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26073797

Jaywalking: How the car industry outlawed crossing the road

The idea of being fined for crossing the road at the wrong place can bemuse foreign visitors to the US, where the origins of so-called jaywalking lie in a propaganda campaign by the motor industry in the 1920s.

Then in New York officials responded to several pedestrian deaths last month by issuing a flurry of tickets for jaywalking. The campaign quickly ran into controversy when an 84-year-old Chinese immigrant who had been stopped for jaywalking suffered a gash to his head during an altercation with the police.

Enforcement of anti-jaywalking laws in the US is sporadic, often only triggered by repeated complaints from drivers about pedestrian behaviour in a particular place. But jaywalking remains illegal across the country, and has been for many decades.

A key moment, says Norton, was a petition signed by 42,000 people in Cincinnati in 1923 to limit the speed of cars mechanically to 25mph (40kph). Though the petition failed, an alarmed auto industry scrambled to shift the blame for pedestrian casualties from drivers to walkers.

Local car firms got boy scouts to hand out cards to pedestrians explaining jaywalking. "These kids would be posted on sidewalks and when they saw someone starting to jaywalk they'd hand them one of these cards," says Norton. "It would tell them that it was dangerous and old fashioned and that it's a new era and we can't cross streets that way."

Clowns were commonly used in parades or pageants to portray jaywalkers as a throwback to rural, ignorant, pre-motor age ways.

Another ruse was to provide local newspapers with a free service. Reporters would submit a few facts about local traffic accidents to Detroit, and the auto industry's safety committee would send back a full report on the situation in their city.

"The newspaper coverage quite suddenly changes, so that in 1923 they're all blaming the drivers, and by late 1924 they're all blaming jaywalking," Norton says.

Soon, he adds, car lobby groups also started taking over school safety education, stressing that "streets are for cars and children need to stay out of them". Anti-jaywalking laws were adopted in many cities in the late 1920s, and became the norm by the 1930s.

Meanwhile, an overriding goal of city planners and engineers became allowing traffic to circulate unhindered.

"For years, pedestrians were essentially written out of the equation when it came to designing streets," says Tom Vanderbilt, author of Traffic - Why We Drive the Way We Do.

"They didn't even appear in early computer models, and when they did, it was largely for their role as 'impedance' - blocking vehicle traffic."

This made US cities unusually hostile to walkers, says Vanderbilt. Jaywalking became an "often misunderstood umbrella term", covering many situations in which the pedestrian should in fact have the right of way.

When the LAPD advertised the anti-jaywalking campaign on its Facebook page, responses accused the police of seeking an easy source of revenue by fining people with the means to pay, and of wasting their time.

Just like how Herpes wasn't considered an STD until the pharmaceutical industry needed to drum up a new market. This is also the same motor industry that bought up streetcar lines in the US so that they could destroy them.

 

[King Of Fuh]

I have no issue with where jaywalking came from as a traffic offense.

Jaywalking is dangerous for drivers and pedestrians.

Just as a driver doesn't expect cars to cross in front of him at places other than intersections, they shouldn't expect walkers to cross at other places either. That's what gets people hurt/killed.

 

[Jackpot]

Just as a driver doesn't expect cars to cross in front of him at places other than intersections, they shouldn't expect walkers to cross at other places either. That's what gets people hurt/killed.

No it isn't. You should have read the article:

Advocates for walking say drivers are most often to blame for pedestrian deaths and injuries, and that there is no evidence to prove that anti-jaywalking campaigns are effective.

That rings true for John Moffat, a former commander of Seattle's traffic police.

Seattle was known for being especially strict on jaywalking, and Moffat calculated that some 500,000 tickets had been issued there between the 1930s and the 1980s. But he oversaw a change of policy in 1988 after a study in the city showed that the most vulnerable pedestrians were the elderly, children and drunks - not jaywalkers. "Are they the ones ending up in the morgue or in hospital?" he says. "The answer is no, and the reason is that most of them are pretty fleet of foot and agile."

 

[Spanx McFranks]

Growing up in a tiny rural town in Texas, I honestly thought jaywalking was a fictional situation sitcoms used to make terrible jokes. I didn't realize it was a real law until later in elementary school.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

As a pedestrian, I see drivers ignoring right of way all the time. Then they get pissy because I don't jump out of the way.

 

[pa22word]

Growing up in a tiny rural town in Texas, I honestly thought jaywalking was a fictional situation sitcoms used to make terrible jokes. I didn't realize it was a real law until later in elementary school.

Haha, this.

In smalltown usa, everyone jaywalks everywhere.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

The blame should be on the ones encased in the heavy, metal death machines. They have the all the power.

Pay attention when youre driving, assholes

 

[Mr.Mike]

This is really interesting stuff. Makes me wonder how these same car companies will influence legislation about self-driving cars. I'd imagine they'd be all for drivers aids as a way to give them an edge over the competition, but that final step there from a car pretty much almost driving itself to actually driving itself will be something the industry really fights. Perhaps a big campaign about how these vehicles shouldn't be left unattended and allowed to drive around without someone in the drivers seat.

 

[Valnen]

Growing up in a tiny rural town in Texas, I honestly thought jaywalking was a fictional situation sitcoms used to make terrible jokes. I didn't realize it was a real law until later in elementary school.

This is one law I admit I don't really follow. Never been ticketed yet.

 

[ZeroGravity]

We should be able to walk as the crow flies.

 

[Vyroxis]

The blame should be on the ones encased in the heavy, metal death machines. They have the all the power.

Pay attention when youre driving, assholes

Look both ways before walking out from behind the giant obstructuon dickwad! I dont have xray vision.

 

[Alchemy]

The blame should be on the ones encased in the heavy, metal death machines. They have the all the power.

Pay attention when youre driving, assholes

It goes both ways. Don't run out into busy roads trying to cross the streets either. I walk to work whenever possible (did so for a few years before I had to get a car), and there are plenty of horribly stupid pedestrians that choose to ignore cross walks and just try to cut through the middle of the road. In LA basically every road is busy, yet people do it constantly.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

The blame should be on the ones encased in the heavy, metal death machines. They have the all the power.

Pay attention when youre driving, assholes

This type of entitlement is exactly what a lot of people display here. Can't count how many times I see idiots crossing the road in the middle of the street instead of walking a few extra steps to the intersection with a crosswalk. What's worse is that most of them don't give a flying fuck and expect the world to stop for them. Some don't even bother looking for cars and cross indiscriminately.

In my experience, dumbass pedestrians are more common and are worse than bad bikers.

 

[mantidor]

Growing up in a tiny rural town in Texas, I honestly thought jaywalking was a fictional situation sitcoms used to make terrible jokes. I didn't realize it was a real law until later in elementary school.

I'm not the only one!

I realized it much later but as an excuse I'm from and living in another country but yeah when I heard it in some show, I think it was modern family, I had to google it and laugh at it.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Aw, someone's feelings are hurt

 

[Eusis]

For busier roads and especially when you're near a crosswalk anyway it's just safer to go with that, but I'm definitely sympathetic to when a crosswalk is way too far away, and sometimes the lights are kind of being bullshit. OH YOU PRESSED THE BUTTON 1 SECOND AFTER I TURNED TOO BAD.

 

[Valnen]

The blame should be on the ones encased in the heavy, metal death machines. They have the all the power.

Pay attention when youre driving, assholes

If you're paying attention when you cross the street, you shouldn't have any issues.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

Look both ways before walking out from behind the giant obstructuon dickwad! I dont have xray vision.

It goes both ways. Don't run out into busy roads trying to cross the streets either. I walk to work whenever possible (did so for a few years before I had to get a car), and there are plenty of horribly stupid pedestrians that choose to ignore cross walks and just try to cut through the middle of the road. In LA basically every road is busy, yet people do it constantly.

this stuff is golden. Walkers don't have a death wish, guys. And if they do, you should still stop.

This type of entitlement is exactly what a lot of people display here. Can't count how many times I see idiots crossing the road in the middle of the street instead of walking a few extra steps to the intersection with a crosswalk. What's worse is that most of them don't give a flying fuck and expect the world to stop for them. Some don't even bother looking for cars and cross indiscriminately.

In my experience, dumbass pedestrians are more common and are worse than bad bikers.

oh boy. Look in the mirror

If you're paying attention when you cross the street, you shouldn't have any issues.

of course I look both ways. Again, I (and other people) don't have a death wish.

 

[entremet]

The car industry also killed many mass transit initiatives back in the day. It happened in Los Angeles famously.

Blame LA gridlock on GM.

 

[Dan]

Eh, I'm perfectly fine with jaywalking being on the books. It's all about learning the area and knowing the risks of actually getting fined (or injured or killed) and making a choice for yourself, but I don't think it's particularly wise to not discourage jaywalking from a legal perspective.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

The blame should be on the ones encased in the heavy, metal death machines. They have the all the power.

Pay attention when youre driving, assholes

I can probably look out my office window right now and see pedestrians crossing busy intersections with their smartphones square in front of their eyes and an equal number of drivers doing the same. Shifting the blame around doesn't really solve the problem, everybody needs to pay attention and do each other some courtesy from time to time.

 

[Somnid]

My friend used to just walk into traffic. He did it because in his words "I'll make a dent in their car, they won't want to pay for it." This was largely true. I think jaywalking isn't so dangerous for the pedestrian because cars will stop if able and they will always be found at fault for hitting a pedestrian. So perhaps that's not the issue but if you've been anywhere with rampant jay walking it's often a traffic clusterfuck because it's not predictable to drivers.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Look in the mirror

Yes, cars have a right to the road when it's not a crosswalk/intersection. Pedestrians don't have the same excuse as bikers.

Not saying drivers should be free to run anybody over but the onus is on the pedestrian to be considerate in this type of situation.

I don't mind people jaywalking if they're smart about it and cross when there's no traffic. But the amount of people who cross regardless of traffic astounds me.

My friend used to just walk into traffic. He did it because in his words "I'll make a dent in their car, they won't want to pay for it." This was largely true. I think jaywalking isn't so dangerous for the pedestrian because cars will stop if able and they will always be found at fault for hitting a pedestrian. So perhaps that's not the issue but if you've been anywhere with rampant jay walking it's often a traffic clusterfuck because it's not predictable to drivers.

Exactly why people do what they do. I'd like to see American pedestrians try this shit in other countries where drivers are less careful about this sort of stuff.

 

[Fou-Lu]

I am a jaywalker and I don't plan on stopping anytime soon, it's not like I cross in busy traffic. If I somehow manage to get hit it's going to be because the driver is going way to fast or is drunk or something.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

I can probably look out my office window right now and see pedestrians crossing busy intersections with their smartphones square in front of their eyes and an equal number of drivers doing the same. Shifting the blame around doesn't really solve the problem, everybody needs to pay attention and do each other some courtesy from time to time.

without a doubt. My stance isn't "walkers should do whatever they want", it's "drivers don't realize how much power they wield and should take driving more seriously"

Edit: I'm not pro-jaywalking either.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Jaywalking is one of those things that if you do it with care you will never ever put someone in harm's way.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I wait for signals because I'm never in that much of a hurry, and cars are very fast and heavy.

I have had to throw out my share of dehumanizing glares to drivers who were on their phones and not paying attention while blowing through intersections, though.

 

[Twenty7KVN]

The blame should be on the ones encased in the heavy, metal death machines. They have the all the power.

Pay attention when youre driving, assholes

As a person living in NYC for most of my life the blame can go both ways,I've seen people step out in the street without looking and expect drivers to stop on a dime.

 

[pswii60]

This type of entitlement is exactly what a lot of people display here. Can't count how many times I see idiots crossing the road in the middle of the street instead of walking a few extra steps to the intersection with a crosswalk. What's worse is that most of them don't give a flying fuck and expect the world to stop for them. Some don't even bother looking for cars and cross indiscriminately.

In my experience, dumbass pedestrians are more common and are worse than bad bikers.

Entitlement? Walking is a right, driving isn't. And I say that as someone who drives 40,000 miles per year.

You should be looking out for pedestrians. They don't have to pass a test or carry a license.

 

[iammeiam]

Jaywalking kind of falls into the realm of trying to legislate people not being assholes.

There are legitimate reasons to cross without a crosswalk or cross without a walk indicator in circumstances that can be totally safe. There are also pedestrians who don't pay attention and cause problems because their desire to get somewhere faster trumps common sense.

If people would just be smart about it, no problem. But since some subset of people are assholes, everyone's going to have experiences where jaywalkers create dangerous situations/mess up the flow of traffic. And asshole pedestrians just make the rest of us look bad.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

As a person living in NYC for most of my life the blame can go both ways,I've seen people step out in the street without looking and expect drivers to stop on a dime.

the person with the most power should bear the weight of the responsibility. A driver could end my life in a second

I'm not going to try and defend dumbasses who step into heavy traffic. I also don't think that scenario occurs nearly as often as people in this thread are arguing.

 

[Necromanti]

I have had to throw out my share of dehumanizing glares to drivers who were on their phones and not paying attention while blowing through intersections, though.

I'll never forget the time someone was turning while texting as I was halfway across the street, and she brushed my right side with the car. Some people look embarrassed after realizing their mistake, but she never looked up or noticed that I was there. It really made me wish that there was a traffic light for any and all turns where pedestrians cross. I don't think I've had to worry about crossing the street as much since coming to the US and having to worry about turning on red being prevalent. Now that I think about it, I've never felt as unsafe as a pedestrian.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Entitlement? Walking is a right, driving isn't. And I say that as someone who drives 40,000 miles per year.

You should be looking out for pedestrians. They don't have to pass a test or carry a license.

There are more rules to driving than walking but it doesn't mean one can walk whereever/whenever one desires. The notion that pedestrians are always right because they are the most vulnerable is ludicrous.

Jaywalking kind of falls into the realm of trying to legislate people not being assholes.

There are legitimate reasons to cross without a crosswalk or cross without a walk indicator in circumstances that can be totally safe. There are also pedestrians who don't pay attention and cause problems because their desire to get somewhere faster trumps common sense.

If people would just be smart about it, no problem. But since some subset of people are assholes, everyone's going to have experiences where jaywalkers create dangerous situations/mess up the flow of traffic. And asshole pedestrians just make the rest of us look bad.

I agree with all of this.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I'll never forget the time someone was turning while texting as I was halfway across the street, and she brushed my right side with the car. Some people look embarrassed after realizing their mistake, but she never looked up or noticed that I was there. It really made me wish that there was a traffic light for any and all turns where pedestrians cross. I don't think I've had to worry about crossing the street as much since coming to the US and having to worry about turning on red being prevalent. Now that I think about it, I've never felt as unsafe as a pedestrian.

Drivers may be more cautious here because of the repercussions, but it's still in your best interest to consider every driver oblivious and protect your own neck.

 

[Freaky Fred]

When I lived in Syracuse I jaywalked all the time with no issues.

I almost got hit by a bus and an idiot van driver on separate occasions while using the crosswalk properly. When you jaywalk you pay attention to things around you. When you use the crosswalk and wait for the light, you expect everything to be fine and don't account for idiot drivers.

 

[alterno69]

Lol, funny law. I'm just finding anout this right now, we have lots of bridges for people to cross on traffic heavy streets here in Mexico, most people chose to jaywalk below them, so stupid.

 

[Toxi]

Motorists blaming the people they hit instead of themselves? Nothing new. Sensible people get crazy when driving, blaming every other possible thing while taking every possible advantage. I've seen a GAF poster claim to "scare" bicyclists by driving close to them, I'll believe anything.

 

[Twenty7KVN]

the person with the most power should bear the weight of the responsibility. A driver could end my life in a second

I'm not going to try and defend dumbasses who step into heavy traffic. I also don't think that scenario occurs nearly as often as people in this thread are arguing.

To me it depends on the sittuation,but people driving should always be prepared to stop or safley evade to avoid accidents. And Yea that scenario doesn't happen everyday,I was pretty much pointing out a extreme situation.

 

[voodooray]

Only in a leap from the lion's head shall he prove his worth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M72PjvMw1qc

Spoiler

Having been there, and done that, yes, it's as crazy as it looks.

 

[Zoc]

I think cars are beautiful, exciting machines, and extremely useful for allowing cities to expand and people to have more living space than in the past, but I also think it's absurd how much of even the densest downtown parts of most cities is devoted to roads for cars and parking. Almost no one has a legitimate reason for driving downtown rather than just driving to the edge of downtown and walking or taking public transit.

My point: if jaywalking is truly a serious "problem" in an area, i.e., happening all the time, the solution is to make the area a car-free zone, not ticket people crossing the street.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I jay walk all the time in front of cops and I see 20-30 walking to work everyday. They've never said anything to me

 

[CarbonRevenge]

Who's going to tell the deer that it's against the law?

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Growing up in a tiny rural town in Texas, I honestly thought jaywalking was a fictional situation sitcoms used to make terrible jokes. I didn't realize it was a real law until later in elementary school.

When they were little, my dad and mom believed it meant walking across a street, then turning back and stopping in the middle of the street (the path walked making a "J", which would be unexpected for drivers) and walking with the top half of your body bent sideways hindering your field of vision) while crossing the street, respectively.

 

[Alchemy]

this stuff is golden. Walkers don't have a death wish, guys. And if they do, you should still stop.

Have you ever been in a car? Many of the streets around LA have speed limits around 45, you can't slam on your brakes and come to a stop randomly if a pedestrian hops out into the road. Not only are you going to still hit the pedestrian, you're going to get rear ended by the cars behind you (who in LA is likely a speeding asshole). We aren't talking about roads through the suburbs here where cars are going slow.

Pedestrians aren't always in the wrong, but there are plenty of straight up idiots who walk out into the middle of the road on a busy street. Just like there are plenty of idiots who weave in and out of lanes on the highway instead of slowing down.

I think cars are beautiful, exciting machines, and extremely useful for allowing cities to expand and people to have more living space than in the past, but I also think it's absurd how much of even the densest downtown parts of most cities is devoted to roads for cars and parking. Almost no one has a legitimate reason for driving downtown rather than just driving to the edge of downtown and walking or taking public transit.

My point: if jaywalking is truly a serious "problem" in an area, i.e., happening all the time, the solution is to make the area a car-free zone, not ticket people crossing the street.

I legitimately cannot get anywhere in downtown LA on time without driving. I live far out enough that I would have to drive to a train station to take public transit into the area, and all the lots there are full by 8/9am. To get there at 9am I'd have to leave my place at 6:30am so I can sit in traffic that only takes 40 minutes around 10:30am but now takes over 2 hours. Not going to get up at 6:30 in the morning on the weekends, and all my meetings during the week are at 10am. I can just leave at 8:30 and usually get there on time.

LA is fucking stupid. Seattle area had awesome public transportation though, I miss it.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Sorry if I don't want to slam on my breaks going 50mph, swerve and risk a major accident for someone who can't be bothered to just use a crosswalk 20 ft down.

Obviously if someone is already in the street its easy to avoid. But plenty of people like to risk it and randomly dart out into traffic.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Living in a heavily populated city & having some jackass walking across a red light while the speed limit is over 40mph, is not something I would want.

One time big business is in the right.

 

[AstroLad]

As anti-pedestrian as most city designs already are nowadays, it's hilarious and amazing to think about a crackdown on jaywalking. Thankfully any real city you'll never see enforcement against reasonable jaywalking (i.e. not impeding traffic). In NY you'll get annoyed looks for NOT jaywalking if you are holding other people up. But no as fat as Americans are let's make it even harder and more inconvenient for anyone to walk anywhere.

 

[nephilimdj]

Is the fine even big? I assume be like when I got a $20 fine for my bicycle not having a working alert system (bell lol)

 

[Violet_0]

this is why thousands of European tourists die on American streets every year

 

[Ala Alba]

At the University I attend, it's not so much jaywalking that's the problem as it is students not following the crosswalk lights. I've seen cars be completely unable to make a left turn on a green light because the pedestrian flow does not stop until the traffic light turns red. Even then there will still be people who have stepped into the street.right as the traffic light turns red and will still leisurely make their way across the street.