I don't remember them ever saying that the full Kinect feature set (heart rate detection, etc...) would be running 100% of the time through the OS. But certainly I haven't read everything about it. Can you link to this?
Digital Foundry: Microsoft to unlock more GPU power for Xbox One developers
- Thread starter DaSorcerer7
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I don't remember them ever saying that the full Kinect feature set (heart rate detection, etc...) would be running 100% of the time through the OS. But certainly I haven't read everything about it. Can you link to this?
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Sword Of Doom
Member
Wow. That says it all
Not sure how to feel about this. On one hand, I don't care since I'm only getting a ps4 (at least for now) , so if the X1 performs worse it wouldn't bother me.
But on the other hand, multiplats are designed according to the lowest common denominator, and this confirms that the gap between the two is even bigger.
I don't wanna go over that subject again, tinfoil hat and all, but I really don't believe that many devs will go the extra mile on ps4's versions. It will probably run at a slightly higher fps with minimal to none screen tearing, and that is awesome..but if the gap is as big as it looks like, there are gonna be a lot of games that won't achieve their full potential. I care more about performance than I do about fancy effects, but if the ps4 has more headroom to have them and still perform well, it's a pity if it's constrained by the X1.
X1 should be as strong as possible to avoid this, it's unfortunate that MS really dropped the ball.
But on the other hand, multiplats are designed according to the lowest common denominator, and this confirms that the gap between the two is even bigger.
I don't wanna go over that subject again, tinfoil hat and all, but I really don't believe that many devs will go the extra mile on ps4's versions. It will probably run at a slightly higher fps with minimal to none screen tearing, and that is awesome..but if the gap is as big as it looks like, there are gonna be a lot of games that won't achieve their full potential. I care more about performance than I do about fancy effects, but if the ps4 has more headroom to have them and still perform well, it's a pity if it's constrained by the X1.
X1 should be as strong as possible to avoid this, it's unfortunate that MS really dropped the ball.
hUMA, APU and API are now biggest unknown.
We have 0 currently benchmarks than can give us some numbers on hUMA efficiency compared to normal situation.
They did go with low power and low cost (APU) but frankly there wasn't really anything out-there that they could put into consoles and get nice price.
Currently only AMD has everything in APU and they created custom APU for both Sony and MS.
What if every PS4 multiplat ran at a higher res or more stable frame rate, or both. Would you be cool with that?
Im actually quite happy with the GPU, with the juice devs got out of current gen hardware, this GPU being near 10x faster its great, I think by default we are comparing the GPU to stock PC gpu but we know devs code to the metal, get more from a fixed system. Not to mention the asynchronous fine grain compute
Some are saying when considering that the PS4 GPU could perform close to a GTX 680 in a closed architecture. Alot of speculation and random math but its definately food for thought.
"Microsoft reserves 10% GPU power for Kinect and Snap Mode" would be an accurate headline. To say GPU performance will increase skips the real news and is highly speculative, too. No one knows when and if Microsoft decides to give devs more freedom in terms of GPU reservations.
No one says Leadbetter should write articles that tell Microsoft they suck. He should write unbiased articles though. That's what I'd like to see.
It's not running all of the time, it just has a lot reserved so that a game isn't made worse by introducing kinect (though the other side of the coin is all games are made worse).
I can't find the link but i'm sure I saw it in an interview at E3. essentially thy were saying they didn't want developers to not use kinect because it cost resources so made it this way so the developers could use kinect features "for free" and would help more games use kinect features.
Are there any details on what resources are available to ps4-devs?
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
I agree.
It´s not Sony went all out and is giving us a moster of a console. They too looked at the cost and went more conservative as usual. But within that framework they had their priorities straight.
For MS: You can really see the arrogance ("we are xbox"), the pursuit for big day one profits (envying apple) and wrong priorities (Kinect,TV) reflected in their xbox one concept.
I got to play Forza and Killer instinct at the Xbox One tour on Monday. While I LOVED Killer Instict I was disapointed in Forza. Forza looks good but nothing special over what I have seen elsewhere. The system was snappy and WAY faster than 360 which shouldnt be a surprise. The biggest disapointment was that they didnt showcase Kinect at all, for them pushing Kinect 2 so much and not show me why I should be excited was a bone headed move.
Good. I hope they didn't reserve more than one core (if even one). Their OS shouldn't be too heavy (being Linux-based, I'd be surprised otherwise).
They could have put a full GTX680 in there, even two, why not.
They didn't because of money.
Staying on topic, why don't they let the user decide if they want to reserve this 10% or not.
I mean, the developers make the game with what they have, then, if the user doesn't want to use Snap or Kinect at all, they unlock this 10% of the GPU, and the game runs better.
I remember reading this too but I wouldn't know where to begin trying to find the article.
gaming_noob
Member
This is an absolute annihilation. Total embarrassment on Microsoft's part.
Portugeezer
Member
I think the GPU is good, I just think comparing to $500+ graphics cards is a bit absurd.
PS4 has better specs than my PC, which has been great for gaming.
qa_engineer
Member
I see this thread is still going strong.
Tell me, Gents (in one paragraph or less), what else could we be arguing at this point?
Tell me, Gents (in one paragraph or less), what else could we be arguing at this point?
TheGreyHulk
Member
The reason they're not pushing Kinect dedicated games yet is because this is a $500 launch console. The type of crowd that buys at this price point is the core gamer crowd. You cater to the core audience at launch, so instead of pushing Kinect games, they'll push Kinect voice controls and games like forza, dead rising 3, ass creed 4, etc. You have to know your audience. Now is not the time for Kinect to carry the torch and lead the way for them. That will only backfire and push more people away from their system.
IHaveCandy
Banned
But what about The Fighter Within?!
Theoretical reserves on the PS4, overall power comparisons, lack of Kinect games, etc. I wouldn't say arguing though, just discussing.
The Fighter Within? I'd rather do Without.
nailed it!
phosphor112
Banned
Microsoft:
YOU KILLED THUWAY! YA CUNT!
ignore the fact that thuway is a parrot, and not a love bird >_> lol
Well I would not say that the titles is inaccurate. It based on what was said. I would agree that it's a bit flashy. But after all that's why when you click on it there's wall of text that you can draw your conclusions from.
Articles =/= Title.
Plus if someone would explain in what way it's biased, that'd be good. Since I fail to see that. It's a retelling of an interview, when you speak to people you choose your words carefully, so they would actually answer your question, and then you draw your own conclusions. For it to be biased IMO there should be conclusions made by him in there, but there's none.
When you present your own opinion, you cannot be unbiased. When there's no opinion - you cant really be biased too.
Surely you can agree that for $500 with no way to buy it separately they should have had at least 1 first party Kinect title for launch?
Picking that title alone shows Bias.
Paging StevieP to come in here and say how the difference shouldnt matter.
I feel like this is a bit of a catch-22 for MS though. They are asking core audiences to pay more for a device that they may not care about and that isn't being properly utilized at launch.
What they really need is a core game that utilizes Kinect in some amazing way that will convince early adopters it's worth investing in.
fatgamecat
Member
Is there any reason why PS4 would have any GPU reservation?
Night Angel
Member
I'm guessing the next point we're gonna argue are the resources available to the devs. Because if MS is reserving the GPU, Sony must also be doing it. /facepalm
Keep the hope alive!
Inb4 "something something PC is better anyway"
Keep the hope alive!
Inb4 "something something PC is better anyway"
I think it would be better expressed as pixel and texel fill rate rather than TMU's and ROP's, the difference would then be 41% instead of 50 and 91% instead of 100%.
which doesn't really change much but you know, your way is technically correct though.
When I first read that article title I thought it was 1.31Tflops+ 10% not 1.18Tflops at a 10% deficit discussing trying to regain its 10% (making it 10% officially weaker than yesterday)
Especially since to the normal casual they wont even know what a Flop is etc and will read the title leave it at that and think, oh yeah 10% gained on ps4.
So, the whole complaint is the fact that title wants to attract attention. I see.
I would reiterate, that title is not actually the article, but only there to attract attention and give a brief summary of what will be there (as all titles), but well...
Of course I would be cool with that.. As I said in another thread, I care a lot more about a stabler fps than I do about fancy particles. So far, the numbers on the table seem to suggest that it might be possible, even the norm.
But if the system is capable of pushing more eyecandy without impacting the performance, it should..And that's where the tinfoil comes in, cause I don't think they would give ps4's version of, let's say, Watch_Dogs fancier lighting effects, or better rain, cause the X1 would probably struggle a little with it. So they would just drop it completely (I'm just speculating here, of course). If certain techniques are capable on ps4 while maintaining ~30 fps, while the X1 runs it at around 22-23fps, will they really apply said effects? They will drop them from both consoles..
I'm a big big PS fan, always have been. But sometimes I think that the bigger the disparity between consoles, the more constrained will the multiplats be in the long run. As a gamer, it would be better for everyone if the X1 was stronger, so most of the times I don't get why people are so happy that ps4 will blow it out of the water. Even if you're gonna be a single console owner, you're gonna get affected by it..Even PC players, who can run everything at 60fps maxed out and downsampled are gonna be affected by this.
Not to mention the big difference between third party and first party. Naughty Dog, SSM, SS and Quantic will show us somethings that will make us wonder what would multiplat A, B or C look if they could push things even further.
Metalmurphy
Member
not rendering the UI during a game and not using GPGPU to do kinect skeleton tracking.
Well.. I know people selectively read stuff. But the first sentece on the page says :
I think it's very clear about what reserves where.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
If the power is unlocked at some point, it must mean the Kinect requirement will be dropped at some point. That is how I'm reading into it. If that is the case, I feel sorry for those who buy the console at launch who wish they had a Kinectless, cheaper option.
ethomaz
Banned
I think Sony stopped to talk about NPD months ago
TrojanBlade
Member
I don't get this logic. By this logic the PC versions of all current gen games should have been shitty looking just like the console version. But that never happens does it? So why handicap a console that is giving you more power to make your game look/perform better than the one that has less power? Even the reason that a console maker will not be happy with the dev/pub if they didn't do parity makes no sense to me. IMO the dev has more power compared to the console maker. Its not like MS would boycott them and not allow their game on their platform. That is more failure for MS as they would have less games. The only reason that makes sense is money hats to make both versions look equal so that your weak console doesn't look even worse.
So even if it does "which it does" it still comes out to being the same performance gap..with a bit more adding to PS4 favor once again. Make no mistake about it...we know MS is very keen to having their OS superior to Sony's..its one of the things they flaunt the most and rightfully so, but that gap is still there yesterday as it is today as it will tomorrow.
SHADES
Member
I don't think its this particular article in question that's biased but more so the recent trend of "positive news" DF have run since E3, most notably the June 28th Bandwidth article & the recent CPU GPU upclock article's, oh and a couple of comparisons that gave the XBone gpu way more leeway than required.
Seems to be the DF trend at present but they (by they I mean RL) doesn't paint the whole picture regarding the differences between the PS4 & XBone where the gap always seems to come out smaller than common sense equate's for.
qa_engineer
Member
Lets just assume for a second that Sony's console is reserving 10-15% (even 20%) CPU/GPU/Memory resources for the OS, the performance gap would still be an ocean apart.
I can understand how you and I read that when looking further into the article but 10% reserves doesn't necessarily equate to 10% minus, it could have been 10% reserved over the known power (to unlock a further 10% on top of 1.31) and something a casual may walk away from as I said, performance gained!. It was a selective title and could have been more accurate, Purely my opinion.
FranXico
Member
Indeed.
I dare you to post that at EG; prepare to be bombarded by the resident Xbox fans if you do.
Along with the title, there are a number of things in the authors recent history that show a Bias, ignoring that the pieces that show Bias in this interview IMO are:
generally acknowledged by who? Let's be honest, later in the article we have this Microsoft quote:
but of course generally acknowledge as overkill.
Downplaying the difference between the two consoles, with no evidence other than "Microsoft says it isn't important" way to stay objective.
To be perfectly honest, the news that reservations are reduced during the generation is none news, the ONLY news to come out of this should be 10% of GPU reserved for the system.
EDIT: oh your banned, disingenuous perhaps? I wonder if your e-mail address gave you away.
EDIT2: I forgot to add, when talking about if 16 ROP's could limit the xb1, despite MS already saying 16 ROP's does limit it in some cases, feels the need to use 2 "maybe's" to bring doubt into the statement:
there's no need for could and theoretically, really skewers the readers impression of the likelihood of that happening.
Surely you agree that PC gaming in the past 6 years has been heavily constrained by current gen hardware? There were some games where the devs went the extra mile and added exclusive effects and particles and all that jazz, but many many ports were lazy (Dark Souls comes to mind).
You could run everything with the better performance possible (provided you have a nice rig) but the presentation on itself isn't that different. The games run on higher fps and resolution, but nothing else (even though those are very important things imo) but they could do much much more if the baseline were a little higher. More effects, bigger areas, etc..
It isn't 'suspending the game TO ram', it's 'suspending the game IN ram'. It is just using the ram the game was already using. The OS is sitting in it's 2ish GB separate reservation.
I'm hoping that devs continue to implement effects that require more for their PC versions and include them in the PS4 release when applicable. Optimistic? Sure, but I'm hoping for it anyway.
qa_engineer
Member
Perfect. I can't stand reading slant pieces and refuse to click on the link to give them the ad impressions they so desperately seek.