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[Luminescent]

I was wondering whether or not PGR3 maintains a minimmum framerate of 30. Anyone with experience care to answer?

 

[skyfinch]

During gameplay, it sometimes dips at the beginning starting line when all 8 cars as kicking up smoke. Other than that, it's very stable. Where it dips is in the replays. Not a whole lot, but it's still dissapointing when it does happen.

The biggest graphic glitch, however, is textures going from high to low res. This happens quite a bit when the camera shifts angles rapidly.

 

[ghibli99]

During gameplay, it sometimes dips at the beginning starting line when all 8 cars as kicking up smoke. Other than that, it's very stable. Where it dips is in the replays. Not a whole lot, but it's still dissapointing when it does happen.

The biggest graphic glitch, however, is textures going from high to low res. This happens quite a bit when the camera shifts angles rapidly.

Color me LTTP, but PGR3 doesn't run at a consistent 30 or 60, even in replays? What happened to the 60fps of the first game? Not hating on it -- I'm just a little surprised. Thanks.

 

[Ryudo]

Color me LTTP, but PGR3 doesn't run at a consistent 30 or 60, even in replays? What happened to the 60fps of the first game? Not hating on it -- I'm just a little surprised. Thanks.

I think its just due to the 360 not being powerfull enough and BC not having enough time to optimize their engine.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

I think its just due to the 360 not being powerfull enough and BC not having enough time to optimize their engine.

I remember in an interview they said that several months before release the programmers were saying they wanted to completely re-write the graphics engine, but didn't have enough time. I think they'll be able to pull out quite a bit more power on the next go-around.

And framerate drops are EXTREMELY rare outside of the garage mode. For all intents and purposes it's a constant 30. It dips quite often in garage mode, though.

 

[rod]

pgr could be run 60fps on x360 imho, a lot has to do on the timeframe and rushed launch. and pgr1 never ran at 60, so wtf? anyway, it doesnt really feel like 30, feels in the high 50s, motion blur really does help a lot when done well

 

[Speevy]

I think its just due to the 360 not being powerfull enough.

*smacks head*

This comment has no basis in reality.

 

[rod]

and speaking of crap textures, WTF@the road texture on the brooklyn bridge looking like ASS, honestly ridge racer PSP has better roads than that strip along the bridge

 

[Wario64]

and speaking of crap textures, WTF@the road texture on the brooklyn bridge looking like ASS, honestly ridge racer PSP has better roads than that strip along the bridge

Are you playing it in HD? I played it in on a standard TV and it does look horrible, but I dont know if the road textures is improved on a HDTV. I'll find out this weekend though

 

[rod]

Are you playing it in HD? I played it in on a standard TV and it does look horrible, but I dont know if the road textures is improved on a HDTV. I'll find out this weekend though

yep im playing it in both 720p and 1080i. the road just before u get on is really detailed and textured really well, soon as you get on the bridge though it looks...fucking...horrible...like no detail at all. a perfect description would be like the road out of SF rusH on n64. detail-less

 

[shpankey]

I think its just due to the 360 not being powerfull enough and BC not having enough time to optimize their engine.

no to the bold, yes to the rest

 

[ghibli99]

and pgr1 never ran at 60, so wtf?

Wrong. You had me thinking I was on crack there for a sec, but I'm looking at it right now, and it's 60. PGR2 is when they dropped it to 30.

 

[rod]

Wrong. You had me thinking I was on crack there for a sec, but I'm looking at it right now, and it's 60. PGR2 is when they dropped it to 30.

O RLY? il have to pick it up again. i coulda swore it ran at 30 when i had it, maybe pal version? or maybe im just mistaken

 

[skyfinch]

PGR1 is 60fps. Some slowdown in the central park course when a lot of dirt is being kicked up. And the reflections on the cars are 30 or less. I'm not sure about the pal version, but I doubt that was 30. Most likely 50, or whatever pal is.

 

[rod]

nah pal is 50htz. a lot of people confuse htz with fps

 

[ghibli99]

O RLY? il have to pick it up again. i coulda swore it ran at 30 when i had it, maybe pal version? or maybe im just mistaken

It's all good... I remember going WTF when I played PGR2 for the first time. Looked great, still had dead environments :lol, but the framerate was cut in half. RSC1 almost did this, too. The first one had 60fps gameplay/replay, but RSC2 had 60fps gameplay, and 30fps replay. Weird. And then Forza was 30fps. It's like as the graphic detail went up, framerates went down.

Anyway, no biggie -- back to the PGR3 discussion.

 

[ghibli99]

nah pal is 50htz. a lot of people confuse htz with fps

There's PAL 60, too, and I think I remember MS saying that PAL 50 is optional now on the X360, since it's kinda antiquated.

Anyway, I sense a "fields per second vs. frames per second" debate coming on again... I'm outta here. :lol

 

[Liquid]

360 is more than powerful enough. the reason its 30fps is because its literally drawing every single polygon of the city at once. none of it ever disappears. not even the 10,000s of people lining the track. someone flew around the course using the camera glitch and took this pic. even streets and alleys that a car would never reach in the city are being drawn. always. small scene but this is from under NYC far far away from the actual course. the devs left some props under the level :lol

 

[Shompola]

360 is more than powerful enough. the reason its 30fps is because its literally drawing every single polygon of the city at once. none of it ever disappears. not even the 10,000s of people lining the track. someone flew around the course using the camera glitch and took this pic. even streets and alleys that a car would never reach in the city are being drawn. always. small scene but this is from under NYC far far away from the actual course. the devs left some props under the level :lol

lol no... what the camera sees, the renderer will draw. simple as that.

 

[fugimax]

No offense, but who cares. Just play the game.

It's good, and the framerate drops are not consistent enough to worry about.

 

[rod]

lol no... what the camera sees, the renderer will draw. simple as that.

no, gotta dissagree there, if you used the mode he is talking about you will see the city is always rendered. stupid if you ask me. couldve just rendered on screen information and got it to run at 60fps

 

[Liquid]

and if you take the camera all the way to the end of the city its still drawing what it sees and it draws it all without dipping. heres another.

 

[Liquid]

no, gotta dissagree there, if you used the mode he is talking about you will see the city is always rendered. stupid if you ask me. couldve just rendered on screen information and got it to run at 60fps

exactly. its makes no sense whatsoever that they did it this way but its even crazier that they said with more time they could have got it to 60fps WITH all that data being drawn. You have to use the free roam mode for yourself to see how rediculous the polygon engine is and how big the worlds are. theres stuff in the world that you'd never ever ever see unless they plan on expanding to those parts of the world with DLC. stuff is fully rendered that the track never ever passes no matter how you set up the course.

 

[Lord Error]

no, gotta dissagree there, if you used the mode he is talking about you will see the city is always rendered. stupid if you ask me. couldve just rendered on screen information and got it to run at 60fps

That's not how it goes. The occlusion algorithms make sure to not render things that the camera does not see. Almost every game has been doing that for years now. The moment you get to see any part of any object, it becomes rendered, if it's occluded by something bigger in front of it, it gets excluded from rendering.

The stuff that's never seen in the game is only wasting some memory space, it doesn't really slow down the rendering.

 

[rod]

i remember driving past an alleyway with like 5-6 cars parked, each with the same amount of detail as the cars on track. i realised then how stupidly insane BC got with this game engine

 

[rod]

That's not how it goes. The occlusion algorithms make sure to not render things that the camera does not see. Almost every game has been doing that for years now. The moment you get to see any part of any object, it becomes rendered, if it's occluded by something bigger in front of it, it gets excluded from rendering.

The stuff that's never seen in the game is only wasting some memory space, it doesn't really slow down the rendering.

while i know thats the usual method of rendering objects, i still stand by my opinion that pgr3 engine is different

 

[Shompola]

No they didnt use painters algorithm, that would be insanse. Why do you think it has a z-buffer in hardware? And in the fast edram even! You think they just ignored it. And besides that they use a method called clipping. Sorting out and removing everything that is out of scope.

 

[Liquid]

That's not how it goes. The occlusion algorithms make sure to not render things that the camera does not see. Almost every game has been doing that for years now. The moment you get to see any part of any object, it becomes rendered, if it's occluded by something bigger in front of it, it gets excluded from rendering.

The stuff that's never seen in the game is only wasting some memory space, it doesn't really slow down the rendering.

even if. its not like say GTA where it has to load other parts of the city is what i think i'm getting at and this is far larger than anything gta offers. evn if its say not drawing the back side of buildings its still drawing say the front of the entire world, even stuff that you'll never drive to in the race or see from the track at all times. i mean i can understand having say an alley you can turn your head and look down while driving there in memory but something miles and miles away that has nothing to do with the course being there is just mind boggling.

 

[Lord Error]

No they didnt use painters algorithm, that would be insanse. Why do you think it has a z-buffer in hardware? And in the fast edram even! You think they just ignored it. And besides that they use a method called clipping. Sorting out and removing everything that is out of scope.

Yeah, every single game nowadays uses clipping at least. For example: not rendering objects that are behind the camera and that simply can't be seen. Showing that you can pull camera up to show the whole city only proves that the engine renders what the camera sees, and sometimes you can see that they also use some kind of LOD for textures at least.

 

[Shompola]

even if. its not like say GTA where it has to load other parts of the city is what i think i'm getting at and this is far larger than anything gta offers. evn if its say not drawing the back side of buildings its still drawing say the front of the entire world, even stuff that you'll never drive to in the race or see from the track at all times. i mean i can understand having say an alley you can turn your head and look down while driving there in memory but something miles and miles away that has nothing to do with the course being there is just mind boggling.

Uhh again no. A Z-buffer algorithm and clipping will solve this problem just fine. You wont notice that it is rendereing what the camera sees at that instance. If they did as you suggest, a simple clipping algorithm would significantly boost the efficiency.. can you say maybe even a magnitude of difference? Yah that is the kind of drop you will see if you somehow forget to implement the clipping algorithm.

liquid, start reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(computer_graphics)

 

[Liquid]

yeah they do use lod for the textures. the stuff you'll never see is textured pretty raw. but why even allow for the polygons? Would it have been harder to section out and load track for track? Thats the only reason i can think of. Is it true to say it would have filled more space having seperate versions of the city instead of the one HUGE one thats always able to be drawn?

 

[Shompola]

You simple do not understand the concept of rendering. That is all.

 

[Liquid]

wether i do or not its pretty obvious that PGR3 is doing it bigger than any other game before it.

 

[ghibli99]

wether i do or not its pretty obvious that PGR3 is doing it bigger than any other game before it.

Doing what bigger? If you don't understand what the X360 hardware or BC are doing, what in the world are you referring to?

 

[neptunes]

it kind of dips when you have 4 or more cars crash at once, but only for a split second or so.

 

[Goreomedy]

Doing what bigger? If you don't understand what the X360 hardware or BC are doing, what in the world are you referring to?

Stop playa hatin'!

I hear PGR3 renders the souls of each spectator.

 

[Speevy]

It's pretty obvious that PGR3 is the most technically impressive racing game yet released. Let's not fight.

 

[Liquid]

Doing what bigger? If you don't understand what the X360 hardware or BC are doing, what in the world are you referring to?

name a game this gen or ever thats rendering as much as PGR3 at once smart ass.

 

[Argyle]

Just to answer the original poster's question:

Yes, it does dip below 30, but usually only during replays.

 

[Lord Error]

Doing what bigger? If you don't understand what the X360 hardware or BC are doing, what in the world are you referring to?

PGR3 probably has technically most advanced visuals in racing genre (at least of the games I've seen), but it's just that it's not quite doing what was mentioned earlier in this thread (rendering everything, no matter if it's outside of camera view).

 

[M3wThr33]

name a game this gen or ever thats rendering as much as PGR3 at once smart ass.

Do you understand what BSP Trees or Occluders are? It's not like it draws or even processes every object all the time.
Edit: DigiPen actually DOES teach me stuff. Imagine that!

 

[Borys]

name a game this gen or ever thats rendering as much as PGR3 at once smart ass.

You don't know shit about rendering, that's a fact.

Yes, it renders the whole goddamn map all the time.



What you don't see isn't being rendered that's graphic classes #101.

 

[Blimblim]

Hmmm guys, arguing over a shot done using a glitch that allows the camera to go anywhere is not really smart. You have to realize the devs certainly have some sort of cache algorithm (be it a BSP tree or something else) that allows them to decide what can be seen or not at any point of the city, and that this algorithm is defaulting to "SHOW EVERYTHING WEEEEE" when it's out of the track.
That's my guess at least, especially after seeing a very early beta running a few months before launch.

 

[ghibli99]

name a game this gen or ever thats rendering as much as PGR3 at once smart ass.

Which would prove what? This argument started because you were tossing around some questionable info that some of the others called you on.

 

[eso76]

Z buffer is there for a reason, and pgr3 doesn't do anything different from any other game in terms of rendering process.

Now, if you say PGR3 could have used less than half the geometry and look exactly the same in motion with some clever modelling, i agree but there's no reason to think what's not on screen it's being rendered too (unless you're talking about the scenery and cars being modelled for reflections and rear mirror view, but that's a different thing).

It appears this time BC was smart enough not to use cube env mapping - it looks like spherical env mapping to me.

 

[Salmon]

Bah! Next-gen? 20-30 fps? Why not 60 fps? I just laughed @ this games framerate. Next-gen? Ugly ass game... :lol

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

The frame-rate dips at 30fps - WTF Bizarre?

 

[Luminescent]

I wouldn't mind dips below 30 during replay mode, but yes during gameplay. What about the texture popping issue that some of you have mentioned. Is it very noticeable?

 

[Jerkface]

I won't mind dips below 30 during replay mode, but yes during gameplay. What about the textuer popping issue that some of you have mentioned. Is it very noticeable?

I don't notice it at all when playing, but I exclusively play with the in-car view because it offers that much more in terms of realism. The same for framerate dips aswell actually.

 

[skyfinch]

I wouldn't mind dips below 30 during replay mode, but yes during gameplay. What about the texture popping issue that some of you have mentioned. Is it very noticeable?

Again, mostly in replays when the camera switches angles. You also notice it at times during the countdown before the race, again, because the camera is switching angles.

During gameplay, texture pop in and slowdown is not even an issue, unless it's something you're actually looking for.