Does the entire world economy depend on the United States having its doors open to everyone?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Javi97

Javi97

Member
It is common to see countries apply tariffs or trade barriers to protect their local industries and prevent the entry of foreign products. Europe and China do so with non-tariff barriers, but now that the United States seeks to do the same, it seems that the world economy is going to collapse and the world is being dominated by panic.
 
The United States redesigned the world around free trade, with itself at the center. So, yes.
 
Javi97 said:
It is common to see countries apply tariffs or trade barriers to protect their local industries and prevent the entry of foreign products. Europe and China do so with non-tariff barriers, but now that the United States seeks to do the same, it seems that the world economy is going to collapse and the world is being dominated by panic.
Click to expand...
You seem to be operating under the delusion that the US didn't have any tariffs before the most recent ones. Every country has tariffs on certain products - the difference is that these are blanket tariffs and are based on some weird math using trade deficits - hence you get huge tariffs on countries like Cambodia that are just sweatshops for the US with 90% of the profit on imports being made in the US when they are resold.
You really think when Nike sells a $300 pair of sneakers more than a couple of dollars is making it in to Cambodian pockets.
The idea that the US has been getting ripped off by Cambodia is laughable.
 
Last edited:
We Australians have zero tariffs on US goods yet we have been hit with a 10% one on ours. Thankfully it is only 10%.
 
poppabk said:
You seem to be operating under the delusion that the US didn't have any tariffs before the most recent ones. Every country has tariffs on certain products - the difference is that these are blanket tariffs and are based on some weird math using trade deficits - hence you get huge tariffs on countries like Cambodia that are just sweatshops for the US with 90% of the profit on imports being made in the US when they are resold.
You really think when Nike sells a $300 pair of sneakers more than a couple of dollars is making it in to Cambodian pockets.
The idea that the US has been getting ripped off by Cambodia is laughable.
Click to expand...
It is true that the way I calculate tariffs and how I apply them to all countries is nonsense. Even if Trump has a supposedly brilliant secret plan to save the US in the long term, he is going to ruin everything with the way he is executing it because the way he sees and treats all countries as scammers of the United States is creating new enemies where there were none.
 
A. There is FUD simply because there is FUD about ANYTHING Trump does.
B. There is FUD because there is FUD about ANYTHING that changes economic predictions
C. There is FUD because there is FUD about ANYTHING that threatens globalism
D. There is FUD because post-covid there are trillions of excess dollars across all currencies in circulation that is collapsing the economic system and any abrupt shift might topple it
E. There is FUD because whatever "end game" plan is in play has not been communicated well so folks can't properly plan beyond a few hours into the future

Some of this is legitimate and worrying, a lot of it is just FUD.

The cost adjustments a tariff brings, for examples, is being constantly spammed as XX% of RETAIL price, which is not how tariffs work. Nor are current tariffs being mentioned much or why those were 'okay'.
 
EviLore said:
The United States redesigned the world around free trade, with itself at the center. So, yes.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, in 1996 former President Bill Clinton allowed China to join the WTO

Since then, China has redesigned the world around China manufacturing everything on Earth and selling it to the United States

So, no.

The United States no longer needs to be the world's largest importer, or the world's largest deficit nation, or the world's largest debtor nation. That time has passed
 
Last edited:
T-0800 said:
We Australians have zero tariffs on US goods yet we have been hit with a 10% one on ours. Thankfully it is only 10%.
Click to expand...

Don't forget that our fellow penguins and seals on Norfolk Island, obviously running a massive trading surplus against the poor USA, got slapped with a 29% tariff.

Obviously it's time.

gjif_a.gif
 
Last edited:
i'm scared for the next future and angry at the same time, just the other day i loose almost all my few savings that were invested;
Covid, wars, and now this, sorry no too much close everything
really depressed atm
 
T-0800 said:
We Australians have zero tariffs on US goods yet we have been hit with a 10% one on ours. Thankfully it is only 10%.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but we have a 10% Goods and Servises Tax which is collected by the federal government and distributed to the States to fund their needs. None of that goes to USA. I think this is Trump wanting the equivalent (reciprocal) of that 10%.
We definitely didnt fit the made up "formula".

Might be same for UK with their VAT??
 
Last edited:
I've really tried to understand the logic behind what's been going on with these sweeping world wide tariffs, and it makes zero sense to me. Part of the idea is to bring domestic production back into the United States, but even something like that takes a lot of time, longer than Trump will be in office. Meanwhile the general populace is going to be suffering from rising costs and higher unemployment rates. This won't be "short term" pain. It's a major self inflicted wound in which the lower/middle class will suffer the most, leading to what I imagine will be an absolute bloodbath in the midterm and 2028 elections in the Democrats favor. So I can't really wrap my head around why the POTUS would do this.

Unfortunately there's no going back. Even if Trump pulls back on all Tariffs on Monday, he already demonstrated to the world that they cannot rely on the United States, and many of these countries are now working towards becoming less reliant on us. So this gamble better work, but it's not a good sign when most if not all reputable economists are dumbfounded by this move.
 
I'm ok paying more for the Switch 2 if it means leveling the playing field long term.. I'd prefer they keep it under $1,000, though. America has been the world's whipping boy for too long.
 
Javi97 said:
It is common to see countries apply tariffs or trade barriers to protect their local industries and prevent the entry of foreign products. Europe and China do so with non-tariff barriers, but now that the United States seeks to do the same, it seems that the world economy is going to collapse and the world is being dominated by panic.
Click to expand...

It won't collapse, it will just start to readjust, even if in the red. No external competition means no need for innovation from within.
Manually controlling markets in the way that the US does may weaken purchasing power in the long run and retaliatory tariffs will only make this situation worse.

They've done this before and they don't seem to have learned anything.

In addition, Trump's contempt and disgusting, arrogant tone towards other countries, flirting with Russia and questioning the integrity of NATO will force countries so far relying on the US to build new alliances, also with economic offers in the background.

The direction in which the money flows will start to change.
 
no, but after world war 2 the US basically redesigned the world economy to be the way it is, which is why it has this domino effect when someone that doesn't understand economics, trades, politics or diplomacy fucks with it.
 
freefornow said:
Yeah, but we have a 10% Goods and Servises Tax which is collected by the federal government and distributed to the States to fund their needs. None of that goes to USA. I think this is Trump wanting the equivalent (reciprocal) of that 10%.
We definitely didnt fit the made up "formula".

Might be same for UK with their VAT??
Click to expand...
It's all BS really. A lot of nations are net importers of US goods and technology but yet hit with 10% just because. VAT/GST applies to everything so it's a BS excuse. Trump just wants to have his cake and eat it too. The GOP fears that one day the dollar won't be the default currency of the world. This attack on free trade will accelerate that. FAFO over the next 13 months time. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump gets told to pull back just before midterms.
 
The Lunch Legend said:
Layman here.

Is this a case of Trump playing Chess, while the rest of the world is playing checkers?
Click to expand...


I mean, Trump has literally been saying we need to do tariffs since 1988. So I'm sure he's had a lot of time to think about it for the past almost 40 years. Everyone else who once said there should be tariffs has apparently decided once they've been paid enough by lobbyists that we don't need them anymore. Kinda makes you think sometimes
 
T-0800 said:
We Australians have zero tariffs on US goods yet we have been hit with a 10% one on ours. Thankfully it is only 10%.
Click to expand...
freefornow said:
Yeah, but we have a 10% Goods and Servises Tax which is collected by the federal government and distributed to the States to fund their needs. None of that goes to USA. I think this is Trump wanting the equivalent (reciprocal) of that 10%.
We definitely didnt fit the made up "formula".

Might be same for UK with their VAT??
Click to expand...

The 10% tariff on all countries exists so that Trump can coerce everyone to play under his rules. This tariff applies even to countries with which he has free trade agreements, countries with which he has a fiscal surplus, with "friendly" countries like Javier Milei's Argentina and some poor, innocent penguins.
 
Madflavor said:
I've really tried to understand the logic behind what's been going on with these sweeping world wide tariffs, and it makes zero sense to me. Part of the idea is to bring domestic production back into the United States, but even something like that takes a lot of time, longer than Trump will be in office. Meanwhile the general populace is going to be suffering from rising costs and higher unemployment rates. This won't be "short term" pain. It's a major self inflicted wound in which the lower/middle class will suffer the most, leading to what I imagine will be an absolute bloodbath in the midterm and 2028 elections in the Democrats favor. So I can't really wrap my head around why the POTUS would do this.

Unfortunately there's no going back. Even if Trump pulls back on all Tariffs on Monday, he already demonstrated to the world that they cannot rely on the United States, and many of these countries are now working towards becoming less reliant on us. So this gamble better work, but it's not a good sign when most if not all reputable economists are dumbfounded by this move.
Click to expand...
It's more just Trump being a bully who thinks it's okay to threaten everyone so they listen to his demands and make concessions to the United States.
 
Unknown Soldier said:


I mean, Trump has literally been saying we need to do tariffs since 1988. So I'm sure he's had a lot of time to think about it for the past almost 40 years. Everyone else who once said there should be tariffs has apparently decided once they've been paid enough by lobbyists that we don't need them anymore. Kinda makes you think sometimes
Click to expand...

We already had tariffs on China and most people arent complaining about them. Obama literally said in that clip that you don't levy tariffs on poor countries and that is exactly what Trump has done. Bernie Sanders still supports targeted tariffs, so he hasnt changed his mind.
Also note that the Japan boogeyman that Trump is talking about effextively disappeared and the other thing he mentioned was Kuwait and oil but he exempted oil in these tariffs.
Again - all countries have tariffs including the US, but they are usually targeted and proportional. The problem with the current tariffs is that they are blanket tariffs and are over inflated.
 
Unknown Soldier said:


I mean, Trump has literally been saying we need to do tariffs since 1988. So I'm sure he's had a lot of time to think about it for the past almost 40 years. Everyone else who once said there should be tariffs has apparently decided once they've been paid enough by lobbyists that we don't need them anymore. Kinda makes you think sometimes
Click to expand...

The problem is that these tariffs aren't reciprocal. They're made up bullshit because he thinks that a trade deficit means the US is getting "ripped off".

The left has always had an anti-market streak, so you might notice that the smarter of them right now are not so angry about the tariffs as an idea. If Sanders was allowed to be even more honest in his interviews and didn't have to account for the identity politics now swept over the DNC, he would even be in support of deportations almost irrespective of how they looked. Because you can't have a sustainable large welfare state at all really, but especially not with an open border. Nor can you perpetually protect all low-medium skilled labour without tariff and subsidy policies.

But Trump has gone about this in the dumbest way and displays that he fundamentally misunderstands what he's talking about, and they're not going to pass up on the political win.
 
poppabk said:
We already had tariffs on China and most people arent complaining about them. Obama literally said in that clip that you don't levy tariffs on poor countries and that is exactly what Trump has done. Bernie Sanders still supports targeted tariffs, so he hasnt changed his mind.
Also note that the Japan boogeyman that Trump is talking about effextively disappeared and the other thing he mentioned was Kuwait and oil but he exempted oil in these tariffs.
Again - all countries have tariffs including the US, but they are usually targeted and proportional. The problem with the current tariffs is that they are blanket tariffs and are over inflated.
Click to expand...
Oil wasn't exempt. I believe it got a 10% tariff.
 
Unknown Soldier said:


I mean, Trump has literally been saying we need to do tariffs since 1988. So I'm sure he's had a lot of time to think about it for the past almost 40 years. Everyone else who once said there should be tariffs has apparently decided once they've been paid enough by lobbyists that we don't need them anymore. Kinda makes you think sometimes
Click to expand...

Trump is doing what all US governments have always wanted to do and none have dared

The real problem is that, unfortunately, it is Donald Trump of all people who is going to lead this change in the economy and geopolitics of the United States and the world.
 
kremiso said:
i'm scared for the next future and angry at the same time, just the other day i loose almost all my few savings that were invested;
Covid, wars, and now this, sorry no too much close everything
really depressed atm
Click to expand...

Do you understand how stocks work, or did you dump all your money into short term options? If you own shares, you don't "lose" money from a stock market crash unless you sell everything at the bottom or seriously expect the companies you're invested in to go bankrupt (which certainly didn't happen in 2 days). Even if it takes years, your shares will all but certainly recover and exceed new all time highs
 
Last edited:
Heimdall_Xtreme said:


You see what they caused with the price of Nintendo Switch 2.
Click to expand...


This ain't shit. Wait til inflation on all goods increases even further, businesses shut down, and people lose their jobs. All so we can work in these wonderful factories being built. I just watched a video recently where this woman who runs her own business making non-plastic sippy cups, just lost her business overnight because of retaliatory tarrifs from China. And I'm sure there are many other small business owners like her that are going through the same thing.

Summer's going to be wild.
 
Last edited:
I dont follow tariffs at all. Even with all the hoopla about it, I dont really dig into it.

But from I see with my eyes, why are physical goods always the tariffed stuff? Unless I'm not seeing it, or it's simply not newsworthy enough, are accounting, banking, consulting, engineering services etc..... tariffed?

If someone finds cheap services overseas for half price, why arent those companies tariffed? Too hard to track? Or because gov and factory workers involved are the only ones who care?
 
Look at it this way if Texas was its own country it would be the 4th largest economy in the world. California is up there too. The state of Mississippi has a larger economy than many countries in Europe.

The worlds wants a US that spends money.
 
AJUMP23 said:
Look at it this way if Texas was its own country it would be the 4th largest economy in the world. California is up there too. The state of Mississippi has a larger economy than many countries in Europe.

The worlds wants a US that spends money.
Click to expand...
Yup.

People follow the money. US people have lots of money, good distribution systems to spread the products and ports on each coast. The country also has a good mix of people which means many places will have open arms to international brands, not just home grown American stuff.

Adding to the potential is Mexico is south and Canada is north. So products can come to US ports first, sell some shit, and then ship the rest to the other countries by truck or train.
 
Unknown Soldier said:


I mean, Trump has literally been saying we need to do tariffs since 1988. So I'm sure he's had a lot of time to think about it for the past almost 40 years. Everyone else who once said there should be tariffs has apparently decided once they've been paid enough by lobbyists that we don't need them anymore. Kinda makes you think sometimes
Click to expand...

In other words, trump is the democratic from 25-30 years ago. He hadn't change. They change and turning onto each other.
 
I saw a debate on the floor of the EU where they were putting forth a plan to seize people's savings. How does an unelected body of bureaucrats think they can just take money from the banks that belong to individuals.
 
Anyway, I know this is a crazy time for everyone, but let's dial back the politics before things get out of hand.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
Greenland considers joining the United States
7 8 9 10 11
507
25K
RoadHazard replied
The Bald Eagle is now the official national bird of the United States of America
2
67
3K
SJRB replied
  • Poll
Guess the percentage of deer that are killed during hunting season in the United States?
43
3K
jason10mm replied
  • Locked
Borat's economy
3
805
ForAcademicPurposes replied
Super Nintendo World (Universal Orlando) - opens 22nd May 2025
42
1K
RetroGamingUK replied
Top Bottom