i mean just statistically speaking being 5k means you're likely to be very good by dota player standards
it's probably like that thing where millionaires don't think they're rich because everyone around them is just as rich
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Dota 2 |OT12| A Safe Place For Your Sociopathic Behaviors.
- Thread starter Dreams-Visions
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i mean just statistically speaking being 5k means you're likely to be very good by dota player standards
it's probably like that thing where millionaires don't think they're rich because everyone around them is just as rich
Imp the Dimp
Member
I can see that. Thanks.
yeah calling me the same skill level as purge is an insult to me. I said its fine purge does what he does, and purge even admits he isn't the best player in the world. But theres all these people that base their lives in dota around thinking purge is some god and questioning his skill level is a sin. Shit i even think his analysis is bad and his game sense is worse than mine. I'm sure there is really no argument to be had here, but I keep liking to read about how good people think I am so I keep replying.
waxinlyrical
Member
Here's some updated MMR data from yasp:
http://yasp.co/distributions
(Data from 399657 player sharing solo MMR on Dota profile)
Granted this is a very skewed population (only people who've played enough dota and care about it would use YASP/share solo MMR on Dota profile) but 400,000 players is still a large number of people you can get useful stats from. According to that, as of right now 5k is about 98% percentile.
Wok
Member
That is my point. Good does not equate better than your peers. If all your peers are really bad, then being better than them is not informative.
What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?
Imp the Dimp
Member
Yeah, I've seen the data. Sadly, it's statistically irrelevant as there is a heavy selection bias. It's heavily biased towards people who actively seeked out a website to get a detailed analysis of their recent performance. Interesting nevertheless.
call_kotaku
Member
ppd commentating a tournament is so weird
I guess there isn't necessarily a lot to do right after a major (unless you're kicking/shuffling players)
I guess there isn't necessarily a lot to do right after a major (unless you're kicking/shuffling players)
Paarthurnax 😇
Wok
Member
There is a bias, but it is in no way statistically irrelevant: among players who want to actively monitor their performance using YASP, the stats are all good.
I would go as far as to say it makes more sense than using an old stat which would include all the players, including the ones not dedicated. As I said, being better than a bunch of slackers means nothing about how good you are. Being better than people actively trying their best, trying to improve, now that means something.
Imp the Dimp
Member
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
You mean like 80% of the playerbase? Probably
User 85168
Banned
No one is good at dota
Read the Itagaki thread.
that normally refers to the top 1% of non-poors (americans or whatever)
What? There's people in America who aren't 1%ers rofl TIL.
1% of the world population controls 98% of the world wealth.
that's where "the 1%" comes from, it has nothing to do with nationality or grades of riches. there's very rich people outside that group, not only poors, but the disparity between them and the 1% made them be named something else.
Can you explain what you mean by this? Unless someone gets to a certain MMR by spamming a single hero or single position, then starts playing other heroes or positions at which they are not as good, how could two players with the same MMR be less effective than the other? If someone was consistently less valuable to their team in Solo queue how could they stay at that MMR?
A 5k+ player who dodges games, only plays in high mmr avg games and picks shit like lich and just babysits his teams 6.5k player nonstop is potentially going to be less effective in a 5k avg mmr game where hes the highest mmr than a 5k+ player who doesn't dodge games, plays in plenty of games where his mmr is 500+ above the average and plays more core if they are each others foil in the same game as the high mmr players.
b/c people get to high mmrs by various tactics. A lot of ur top leaderboard fiends are hero pickers, and when you're at a certain skill level, a difference in relative hero power is all it takes to be higher mmr and increase your chance to win ranked games by even as little as 5%. 5% wr over a long period of time means a net increase in mmr, in which case the next patch over that tactic no longer works, and the player is thus 'weaker' than players in his mmr range that didn't use such methods.
Other times its simply streaks of good/bad luck, or what region+time combination that you queue. Some mmr fiends only queue during the twilight dead times of rmm, where its hard to find a game that's above 5k average, and just stomp 4k players and play 1v5. Other players only queue during primetime, where you'll get 5.5-6.5k games easily.
Now, i dont care to track each player that i encounter in ranked, but the player pool is only so limited in 5k+ territory on useast. For the most part I can look at a line up of players and say 'blue is awful, ex lesh spammer rofl' or 'grey's legit' or 'yellow only plays wr and ta'
MMR is strictly a measure of your ability to win ranked games over a long period of time
Other times its simply streaks of good/bad luck, or what region+time combination that you queue. Some mmr fiends only queue during the twilight dead times of rmm, where its hard to find a game that's above 5k average, and just stomp 4k players and play 1v5. Other players only queue during primetime, where you'll get 5.5-6.5k games easily.
Now, i dont care to track each player that i encounter in ranked, but the player pool is only so limited in 5k+ territory on useast. For the most part I can look at a line up of players and say 'blue is awful, ex lesh spammer rofl' or 'grey's legit' or 'yellow only plays wr and ta'
MMR is strictly a measure of your ability to win ranked games over a long period of time
It's like a religion. We're still waiting for our Messiah to return and show us what it means to be good at dota.
Long is the way and hard, that out of Trench leads up to Light
Sometimes I feel like the people who "put Purge on a pedestal and say he's god gift to Dota" includes anyone who's said anything good about him. I haven't seen any posts claiming Purge is the best player in the world. He's better than most players at this game. He's good at this game. He gets extra recognition because he teaches people this game.
Saying that being up near 5.5k is not good is symptomatic of the Dota populace's chronic inferiority complex. Not many people can claim to be up there. Sure, it's thousands or whatever. Top 100 is "best," not "good."
It's the other side of Dunning-Kruger - you don't understand how good you actually are at this game because all you see are the mistakes, yours and others'. Purge may not be "good" compared to his peers. But being the worst grandmaster chess player still means you're good at chess. Just not the best.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Saying that being up near 5.5k is not good is symptomatic of the Dota populace's chronic inferiority complex. Not many people can claim to be up there. Sure, it's thousands or whatever. Top 100 is "best," not "good."
It's the other side of Dunning-Kruger - you don't understand how good you actually are at this game because all you see are the mistakes, yours and others'. Purge may not be "good" compared to his peers. But being the worst grandmaster chess player still means you're good at chess. Just not the best.
Happy Thanksgiving.
well yeah there are some, but most of middle class america are part of the world's 1%.
lol where do you get this shit from. they control 48% first of all, and most media attention has been on income disparity within usa. ows is about the 1% in america, thus excluding the vast majority of the world's poor people. being part of the world's 1% is pretty average in a lot of western countries. just like being 4k (or whatever 1% of dota is) is average in a lot of circles.
Sigismundo
Member
The point is that you can't consider yourself "good" anymore because you know what actually "good" players are; and even them have moments of brilliance that shine above their average. What you learn by seeing the top is "humbleness", after having invested almost infinite time in a game, in the end you recognize that since we are so many, someone had to be better, you were simply not meant to be.
It's like being the smartest in your high school and considered a brilliant mind, and then going to one of the hardest university in your country and see that you're just generically "good" but you don't actually have the "gift", the brilliance of the best. It's like climbing the highest mountain and then see that there are people flying above in the sky , so far out that you can barely see them now and you couldn't from the ground.
Accepting our mediocrity is not an insult to the rest of the people that play the game, it's just a testament of its infinite depth, an acquired wisdom. This is true of dota, as of any activity in life. Any anything, studied or praticed enough, will humble you, because you'll appreciate its greatness.
it all depends who you compare someone too, if there was a basketball player, who was good in college basketball, not good enough to get in the nba,now he surely belongs in the best 1% in the world at playing basketball, would you consider him very good? would nba players consider him very good?
Monochromaticx
Member
instant up vote
I wouldn't call being at that high a level "mediocrity." That's why I'm trying to make the distinction between "good" and "best." There's a difference between being humbled by the skill of people better than you and assuming that being at your current skill level isn't "good."
And it is an insult to the rest of the people who play the game when you say you're mediocre, because it says "well anyone could do this," when no we could not, whether it's because we lack inherent talent or the commitment to grind out the hours and critical learning needed to reach that level. It takes effort either way, and you're denying yourself the credit you deserve for getting there, even if may not seem like much to you.
SecretMoblin
Member
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))Yeah i had hella cranberry it was tight
cant wait for this to be a very rare drop for the shanghai majors chest!
Dreams-Visions
Member
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