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[Version 3.0]

I'd like to hear some opinions on this:

I feel that DS games should either use the touch screen, or the buttons, but NOT both. But I've heard that Nintendo is pressuring developers to use the touch screen in all games. Whether or not that's true, we're getting some games that would have been better off without it.

I'm talking about games that use the touch screen as a button, or as several buttons. Like Spider-Man, Bomberman, and Band Bros. The latest is Nanostray.

Nanostray uses 4 button functions--fire/alt fire/bomb/attract coins. That leaves 2 buttons (out of the 4 face and 2 shoulders) free. Rather than use either or both of those as weapon cycle buttons, you choose from your 4 weapon types on the touch screen.

That pretty much means you're using your thumb to pick weapons. I hate using my thumb on the touch screen, for several reasons. First, I hate getting fingerprints on the screen--any screen, not just the touch screen. Second, my thumb is pretty big, so precision is a problem. Third, it's a lot slower than pressing a button would be.

I love the touch-screen only games, like Meteos, Feel the Magic, Kirby, Wario Ware, Polarium, Zoo Keeper, etc. And I don't have any problem with games that don't use it at all. It has the same button layout as the SNES controller, so if developers want to make games that control traditionally, I'm great with that. Nanostray should have been one of those.

But these games that use the touch screen as extra buttons seem so desperate. The upcoming New Super Mario Bros uses the touch screen for powerups. You don't need a touch screen for that--Super Mario 3 and Super Mario World let you pick powerups using the controller. I played New Super Mario Bros at E3, and I'd rather press select and choose a powerup the old way than poke at the touch screen to do it.

The touch screen is great for some games--Advance Wars, Nintendogs, Pac N Roll, etc. But there's no need for it in other games--like Mario Kart. I hope that has no touch screen function, but I'll bet it does.

What does everyone think? Is Nintendo pressuring for touch screen usage, whether appropriate or not? Do games have to use the touch screen to appeal to you, or to get better reviews or publicity?

 

[Hellraizah]

I fully support your statement. This is fucking dumb. A good example of a well made game is Puyo Pop Fever DS. You can use the touch screen, but you don't have if you don't want.

 

[CoolTrick]

but you don't have if you don't want.

Uh, thread closed. You don't HAVE to use the touch screen.

 

[temp]

Being stabbed hurts

 

[Version 3.0]

Uh, thread closed. You don't HAVE to use the touch screen.

So I should count that as a vote that you don't think Nintendo is pressuring developers to use it?


I think that either they are, or else there's a general feeling that games that don't use it will get ignored or badmouthed.

 

[Madame M]

Puyo Pop Fever the best DS game out right now and you're retarded if you use the touch screen with that.

 

[kiryogi]

Touch screen in band bros is really convinent in the pro edit mode.

 

[Ranger X]

I fully support your statement. This is fucking dumb. A good example of a well made game is Puyo Pop Fever DS. You can use the touch screen, but you don't have if you don't want.

.

 

[FitzOfRage]

http://www.miyamotoshrine.com/theman/interviews/130504.shtml

But just because there's two screens doesn't mean you have to use two screens. And even though we have wireless capabilities in the system, it doesn't mean every game has to be wireless compatible. And just because there's a microphone in the system doesn't mean you have to put in voice recognition into your game. And you don't even have to take advantage of the pressure control system. We think this is a system where developers have freedom to choose what to incorporate into their games.

 

[Azelover]

The touch screen is a key DS feature and games are expected to and meant to make use of it. That is a widely known thing and is there for anyone to choose wether or not the system is for them. You should have known before you bought it that the DS games would use such features as the touch screen, if you bought it with games that wouldn't use it in mind then you were better off going with GBA or PSP.

 

[Sanjuro]

 

[Wario64]

hilarious movie

 

[LittleTokyo]

I don't mind it if it doesn't really affect gameplay, but what nanostray does is downright retarded.

A good example of modest touchscreen use is Star Wars. You can use it for a couple of special moves, or you can use the button combos. I actually found it easier to use the touchscreen. But the point is, Star Wars was a side scrolling beat em up, and the touchscreen has no business fucking that up.

 

[Version 3.0]

The touch screen is a key DS feature and games are expected to and meant to make use of it. That is a widely known thing and is there for anyone to choose wether or not the system is for them. You should have known before you bought it that the DS games would use such features as the touch screen, if you bought it with games that wouldn't use it in mind then you were better off going with GBA or PSP.

I did know that, and I love the touch screen games. In fact, I've always hated handhelds for 'stealing' games from home consoles. The GBA changed that to some degree by keeping 2D on life support. The DS changed it totally by having games that wouldn't work on TV at all. I LOVE the touch screen.

I just hate when it's used for stupid things. Some games don't need it and are better off without it.

 

[Version 3.0]

But just because there's two screens doesn't mean you have to use two screens. And even though we have wireless capabilities in the system, it doesn't mean every game has to be wireless compatible. And just because there's a microphone in the system doesn't mean you have to put in voice recognition into your game. And you don't even have to take advantage of the pressure control system. We think this is a system where developers have freedom to choose what to incorporate into their games.

Thank you for that. It does seem to imply that the pressure isn't coming from Nintendo (although that's not up to Miyamoto, probably).

I still wonder about things like Nanostray, though. Why use it like that? Are they afraid of bad press? There was a lot of that in early DS reviews--"this game doesn't use the touch screen enough" type of stuff.

 

[Azelover]

I did know that, and I love the touch screen games. In fact, I've always hated handhelds for 'stealing' games from home consoles. The GBA changed that to some degree by keeping 2D on life support. The DS changed it totally by having games that wouldn't work on TV at all. I LOVE the touch screen.

I just hate when it's used for stupid things. Some games don't need it and are better off without it.

The touchscreen is fairly new to developers though. In time a lot of them will learn how to use it better and when to not make it crucial in a game, but even down the road there will still be games coming out that do crappy use of it. Badly designed games exist in all consoles and with DS it sure isn't different.

It's really up to the developer, however the touchscreen is widely perceived as a signature feature for DS and a large majority of gamers expect all of the games to use it. I don't think Nintendo pushes the developers to specifically use the touchscreen, or the microphone, or the wireless but I think they push them to use the functions that are available creatively.

 

[typhonsentra]

What movie?

 

[DDayton]

From what I've heard of Nanostray, the touchscreen seems like a control scheme... however, it's possible that somewhere in the development cycle, someone though an "interactive control panel" sounded more cool than pressing buttons.

I'd be more apt to lay the blame for silly touchscreen use on other publishers and on developer whims than I would on Nintendo, as we haven't seen forced touchscreen use in ALL games.

 

[Cold-Steel]

What movie?

American Psycho (or at least I think it is).

 

[Version 3.0]

Badly designed games exist in all consoles and with DS it sure isn't different.

Absolutely. The crap/good ratio is not likely to ever change, on any system. It's just a shame when the only thing really wrong with a game is the add-on touch screen part, as in Nanostray and Band Bros. On the whole, it's worth it to me to suffer the unfortunate stuff for fun, fresh stuff like Kirby, Polarium, Yoshi (I wish they'd make a game out of that) and Meteos. But it's still a shame.

 

[Version 3.0]

I'd be more apt to lay the blame for silly touchscreen use on other publishers and on developer whims than I would on Nintendo, as we haven't seen forced touchscreen use in ALL games.

Are there any games that don't use the touch screen at all? I can't think of any...all the ones I own or have seen use it for something, even if it's just optional like Ridge Racer or Mario 64.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Eh

 

[Varian]

How about they just use the top screen? AND THE BOTTOMS SCREEN IS BLANK.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

How about they just use the top screen? AND THE BOTTOMS SCREEN IS BLANK.

Or just have some kind of screen saver going.

I still think it was a better idea for Nintendo to have one screen that was touch screen. No two screens needed.

 

[Varian]

Or just have some kind of screen saver going.

I still think it was a better idea for Nintendo to have one screen that was touch screen. No two screens needed.

I just want some nice character art/animation on the bottom screen. Like constant cutscenes or something.

EDIT: or the sky in Animal Crossing

 

[demi]

I just want some nice character art/animation on the bottom screen. Like constant cutscenes or something.

Nintendogs is coming.

 

[Varian]

Nintendo should have told the developers of Madagascar/Robots to go fuck themselves.

 

[Bartman3010]

The touch screen controls for Puyo Pop Fever would've been better if they let you move the pieces instead of act as an analog stick.

Touch a piece, move it the left or right, tap the right or left side to flip in that direction, come on, this is insanely simple.

 

[Jado]

Pretty sure Nintendo is not pressuring anyone into using touch screen. Seen it quoted in the past.

However, what's the problem with touch screen use in Band Bros? It's only used in Beginner and Amateur modes as a single giant "Press Here" that takes up the whole screen. It automatically goes through a sequence in the song, giving enough time to get back to the d-pad and face buttons.

 

[monchi-kun]

it's not just Nintendo...you have to look at reviewers as well. editors expect the touch panel to be used in innovative ways. a good game without compelling uses for the panel gets panned in review scores (Bomberman DS)

 

[Ponn]

it's not just Nintendo...you have to look at reviewers as well. editors expect the touch panel to be used in innovative ways. a good game without compelling uses for the panel gets panned in review scores (Bomberman DS)

In the case of Bomberman its not compelling its retarded. During play you are supposed to look down and away from your action scene and touch the item you want to use. Anybody that really plays bomberman can appreciate how horrible that is.

 

[acidviper]

Uh, thread closed. You don't HAVE to use the touch screen.

ditto

 

[Version 3.0]

However, what's the problem with touch screen use in Band Bros? It's only used in Beginner and Amateur modes as a single giant "Press Here" that takes up the whole screen. It automatically goes through a sequence in the song, giving enough time to get back to the d-pad and face buttons.

The problem with those touch screen parts in Band Bros is simply that they're not optional.

My problem in particular is this: in Amateur Mode, they make the game so easy as to be almost boring. The touch screen parts are often there to help--they play the hard parts (not always, but often). I want to play those parts!

In Pro Mode, the touch parts are gone, but Pro Mode is way too hard--I totally suck at it. It's no fun at all. The added L/R triggers combined with the added speed and removal of touch parts combine to add way too much difficulty.

The ideal middle ground is missing--Amateur Mode with no touch parts. The nicest solution would be this: you know how when you touch the screen, the "Touch!" animation turns translucent, and you can see what notes the game plays for you (briefly)? It would be really cool if the "Touch!" animations were always translucent, so that you could play the part if you choose, or touch the screen and have it played for you. But I also think those parts should then be graded (they're not now).

And of course, the simplest solution would be a "Touch parts on/off" option.

What do you think?

 

[Version 3.0]

Uh, thread closed. You don't HAVE to use the touch screen.

ditto

Pass that along to developers, and then you can close the thread. Make sure to get the teams responsible for Spider-Man, Bomberman, Nanostray, etc.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

It's another bullet point the publisher can put on the back of the box. I'd wager that often matters more to the publisher than whether touch screen is used in any useful way.

 

[Version 3.0]

It's another bullet point the publisher can put on the back of the box. I'd wager that often matters more to the publisher than whether touch screen is used in any useful way.

You're probably right. I guess I should be happy that every game doesn't have "shout mode" that lets you use the microphone as a button, just so they can have "it uses the mike!" on the box. Bomberman has that. :lol

 

[Jado]

Leondexter, you're right about Pro mode. The learning curve between Beginner and Amateur is decent. Between Amateur and Pro is just brutal. I remember almost quitting because I wasn't having fun. I ended up just familiarizing myself alot with my favorite songs in Amateur mode, which in turn made songs a bit easier in Pro mode, playing Practice quite a bit, then jumping right into Pro Ticket challenges whether I was ready or not. That last one really helps. You're really pushed into improving if you wanna win.

I agree that you should've been given the option to toggle off the Touch segments in Amateur mode. Your favorite song in Pro mode ends up having these crazy segments that you have no recollection of. That's only good if yo u really wanna be challenged.

Keep in mind that Pro mode isn't impossible. What's missing from Band Bros is an Intermediate level to ease the huge leap in difficulty between Amateur and Pro.

 

[Version 3.0]

Leondexter, you're right about Pro mode. The learning curve between Beginner and Amateur is decent. Between Amateur and Pro is just brutal. I remember almost quitting because I wasn't having fun. I ended up just familiarizing myself alot with my favorite songs in Amateur mode, which in turn made songs a bit easier in Pro mode, playing Practice quite a bit, then jumping right into Pro Ticket challenges whether I was ready or not. That last one really helps. You're really pushed into improving if you wanna win.

I agree that you should've been given the option to toggle off the Touch segments in Amateur mode. Your favorite song in Pro mode ends up having these crazy segments that you have no recollection of. That's only good if yo u really wanna be challenged.

Keep in mind that Pro mode isn't impossible. What's missing from Band Bros is an Intermediate level to ease the huge leap in difficulty between Amateur and Pro.

Yeah, you're right, it's not impossible. In fact, I didn't have too rough a time clearing 3 tickets so I can play up to 4 star parts, and I'm sure I could clear that with a little more practice. But it's just no fun.

I really enjoy playing Amateur Mode; Pro Mode is a chore. But it's so frustrating that so many good parts are erased by the touch parts. I wonder if it's worth writing to NoA about putting in a toggle option when it comes here, or an Intermediate Mode like you said...

 

[jett]

:lol I love the expression on Bale's face when he says "Hey, Paul!". Goddamn I love that movie.

 

[Tarazet]

How about they just use the top screen? AND THE BOTTOMS SCREEN IS BLANK.

Then you have a GBA game. Which, by the way, you can play on your DS.