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[Deku]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...p-accused-of-being-anti-islam/article2016836/

The federally-funded National Arts Centre is surprised to learn it is hosting a talk by a Dutch politician facing charges of inciting hatred for making anti-Islamic statements in his own country.

Geert Wilders, who is taking part in a cross-Canada speaking tour hosted by the International Free Press Society and the Canada Christian College, is infamous for his descriptions of Islam as a fascist religion, his declaration that Muslim youth are violent and his calls for a ban of the Koran.

Mr. Wilders, the leader of Holland’s Freedom Party, will give a speech to a sold-out, invitation-only crowd at the National Arts Centre Tuesday evening, along with Sun News Network host Ezra Levant and two other speakers.

When asked why the centre would give someone like Mr. Wilders a podium, spokeswoman Rosemary Thompson said the NAC was unaware of who would be gracing its stage when the event was booked.

“The way this started was that the International Free Press Society called the catering department about a month ago and said that they had a Dutch MP coming to Canada for a speaking tour and that it was part of the Tulip Festival,” Ms. Thompson said, stressing the centre was not sponsoring the event.

“We only realized yesterday afternoon that the speaker would be Mr. Wilders,” she added. “So that’s the situation that we’re in.”

At a speech in Toronto on Monday, Mr. Wilders is reported to have said: “Our Western culture is far superior to Islamic culture ... and only once we are convinced of this will we be able to defend our civilization.”

The National Post, which was permitted entry to the Toronto event, quoted him as saying Muslim immigrants to Europe have changed the social and political landscape and that an increasingly vociferous Islamic lobby has led to the harassment of Christians, female genital mutilation and polygamy.

The Toronto speech was held at the Canada Christian College, a private institution. The Ottawa speech will be held at the arts centre, which receives nearly half of its funding from the federal government.

“Obviously the NAC does not agree with Mr. Wilders’s views,” Ms. Thompson said.

She pointed out that the federal Immigration Department did allow the Dutch MP, who has repeatedly compared Islam to Naziism, entry into Canada.

The same department, headed by Immigration Minister Jason Kenney, was quick to refuse entry to British MP George Galloway in 2009 for allegedly supporting the banned Middle East group Hamas.

Mr. Galloway, who was eventually allowed into Canada after the courts overturned the ruling that kept him out, said the aid he brought to Palestinians was humanitarian in nature and that he did not support the banned organization.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

More like Geertmonger, amirite?

 

[RustyNails]

I'd pay $500 to see a no holds barred cage match between Anjem Choudhary and Geert Wilders.

 

[Slayven]

But all the Dutch people I know are good natured and a tad bit silly.

 

[Deku]

But all the Dutch people I know are good natured and a tad bit silly.

That reminds me of a story.

I am a total nerd and do not care for sports. So a number of years ago, I guess the Dutch were playing in some big playoff event.

I had a dutch team member who secretly fumed at me for my saturday and late nights meetings because he was missing his games.

I found out about this later when one of his emails was accidentally forwarded to me by another team member.

Good times.

 

[Stridone]

"Hatemonger"? OP does not know what he's talking about. And that's coming from a dutchie who would never even consider voting for Geert Wilders. I don't like him as a politician, but his aversion towards the primitive, hatemongering religion of islam is justified.

 

[Ether_Snake]

So we can prevent holocaust deniers from entering Canada but not this guy?

 

[lightless_shado]

surprised they would let him in. I'm pretty sure some of his statements would count as hate speech.

 

[Discotheque]

So we can prevent holocaust deniers from entering Canada but not this guy?

yeah it's pretty strange policy. They should all be let in (including Holocaust deniers), it's not really harming anybody to hear this stupid shit.

 

[Fusebox]

Hate breeds hate breeds more hate.

 

[lightless_shado]

yeah it's pretty strange policy. They should all be let in (including Holocaust deniers), it's not really harming anybody to hear this stupid shit.

It very well could be. His words could embolden bigots to go out and harass people/destroy their property or kill them. If those who are different can't feel safe or comfortable in the country then they'll try to leave and that hurts the country as some of these people are incredibly important workers(doctors, engineers, etc.)

 

[BladeWorker]

yeah it's pretty strange policy. They should all be let in (including Holocaust deniers), it's not really harming anybody to hear this stupid shit.

Because slander never hurts anyone, right?

Inconsistency in admitting foreign nationals is the issue here. Either you let everyone who isn't a direct threat to Canadian security across the border, or you let nobody across the border.

 

[Deku]

I think the conservatives would point out that Galloway was denied entry due to his support of a terrorist organization- Hamas, although Galloway denies it.

This though is probably just a technicality and the real reason Galloway was denied entry while Wilders was is Wilders is their kind of crazy.

 

[Stridone]

It very well could be. His words could embolden bigots to go out and harass people/destroy their property or kill them. If those who are different can't feel safe or comfortable in the country then they'll try to leave and that hurts the country as some of these people are incredibly important workers(doctors, engineers, etc.)

Geert Wilders never attacked people who are "different". He always speaks of islam/the Quran itself or extremists, not moderate muslims. He's also not crazy, none of you know shit about him apparently.

 

[Slayven]

It very well could be. His words could embolden bigots to go out and harass people/destroy their property or kill them. If those who are different can't feel safe or comfortable in the country then they'll try to leave and that hurts the country as some of these people are incredibly important workers(doctors, engineers, etc.)

People that would get set off by his words are already on a short fuse and would use any excuse to do stuff.

 

[theignoramus]

Geert Wilders never attacked people who are "different". He always speaks of islam/the Quran itself or extremists, not moderate muslims. He's also not crazy, none of you know shit about him apparently.

I know he proposes administrative detention for Muslims who commit thought crimes and deportation for Muslims who actually commit crimes.

 

[Deku]

Geert Wilders never attacked people who are "different". He always speaks of islam/the Quran itself or extremists, not moderate muslims. He's also not crazy, none of you know shit about him apparently.

I think his views are dangerous, but I'm not unsympathetic to them and I think they're coming from a European context that is much more sensitive about culture.

And I do think he's kind of showy hate does allow for cathartic release for some people given most people are immediately slapped down for being 'racist' at the slightest hint of a negative opininion towards Islam.

But that's about as dangerous as letting a Hamas sympathizer talk about how evil the west is and everything is relative, we're all terrorists and describe Syria as a democracy that Syria is doing good.

That said, I'm a free speech advocate and I'm not advocating a ban on this. Just pointing out someone with crazy views is in town and the Canadian government blocked the previous crazy from entering because he was the wrong kind of crazy.

 

[Stridone]

I know he proposes administrative detention for Muslims who commit thought crimes and deportation for Muslims who actually commit crimes.

Source? Because that is absolute nonsense. Yeah, targetting a religious group specifically in such a manner would go over well in one of the most progressive, tolerant countries on earth. Think before you spout nonsense.

 

[FairyD]

Hate breeds hate breeds more hate.

and to the dark side.

 

[Zekes!]

freedom of speech, freedom to get punched in the face

 

[spiderman123]

This is how we do shit in Canada. We got so much balls that the u.s keeps borrowing from us.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

Geert Wilders never attacked people who are "different". He always speaks of islam/the Quran itself or extremists, not moderate muslims. He's also not crazy, none of you know shit about him apparently.

His manifesto had ten key points, a few of them being:

Replacement of the present Article 1 of the Dutch constitution, guaranteeing equality under the law, by a clause stating the cultural dominance of the Christian, Jewish and humanist traditions.

A five year moratorium on the immigration of non-Western foreigners who intend to stay in the Netherlands. Foreign residents will no longer have the right to vote in municipal elections.

A five-year moratorium on the founding of new mosques and Islamic schools; a permanent ban on preaching in any language other than Dutch. Foreign imams will not be allowed to preach. Radical mosques will be closed and radical Muslims will be expelled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders

He obviously has a problem with all Muslims, not just the extremists.

 

[Stridone]

His manifesto had ten key points, a few of them being:





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders

He obviously has a problem with all Muslims, not just the extremists.

I'm not seeing it. Moderate muslims can still live the way they always have. He's trying to curb the spread of Islamic culture in the Netherlands, and rightfully so, even though I don't agree with all his methods.

 

[lightless_shado]

He creates a sort of "Us and them" view of people and that isn't good. That will frighten people when they are seen as the other, and when they hear that someone is not only thinking stuff like "Our Western culture is far superior to Islamic culture ... and only once we are convinced of this will we be able to defend our civilization.” but actually SAYING it.

No culture or group should be considered "superior" to another. History has proven that this leads down a path that many people do not want to go down.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

I'm not seeing it. Moderate muslims can still live the way they always have. He's trying to curb the spread of Islamic culture in the Netherlands, and rightfully so, even though I don't agree with all his methods.

I don't care if you're not seeing it if you can't make any argument. If you think a person from any religious group would not be affected by laws that restrict their ability to practice their culture or build new religious buildings then nobody benefits from listening to you.

 

[Stridone]

He creates a sort of "Us and them" view of people and that isn't good. That will frighten people when they are seen as the other, and when they hear that someone is not only thinking stuff like "Our Western culture is far superior to Islamic culture ... and only once we are convinced of this will we be able to defend our civilization.” but actually SAYING it.

No culture or group should be considered "superior" to another. History has proven that this leads down a path that many people do not want to go down.

Well, islamic culture is as inferior as it gets. I'd rather have people acknowledge that than to be "tolerant" and "accepting" towards such a hateful, destructive culture and allow it to spread. I like gay marriage, euthanasia, the freedom to get an abortion, freedom of speech (I don't care if you think it's hateful, it's still speech) etcetera. I like how the backwards ideals once spread by christianity are finally diminishing and I'd rather keep it that way instead of letting another primitive religion ruin it again. All the freedom and tolerance we have garnered in the past few decades could be at stake here. I've spoken with plenty of muslim teens in the Netherlands and their views on many things such as homosexuality and freedom of speech are downright sickening.

A tolerant Western culture should definitely be considered "superior" to the hateful culture that surrounds islam, and I can definitely see why Wilders would find the spread of that culture threatening.

 

[Fusebox]

Geert has good reasons to criticise Islam extremism, Muslims have good reason to criticise Geert.

I'm quite happy to sit on the fence and let them all duke this one out themselves, neither side needs a defence force.

 

[Stridone]

Geert has good reasons to criticise Islam extremism, Muslims have good reason to criticise Geert.

I'm quite happy to sit on the fence and let them all duke this one out themselves, neither side needs a defence force.

Actually, Geert can't set a foot outside his home without one..

 

[mellowbob]

OP, you're absolutely right. How dare this fearmonger preach against the divinely sanctioned ramblings of a mediveal child rapist? How dare he question the intolerant, bigoted, misogynistic, homophobic and unenlightened teachings of this sacred religion? Absolute fearmonger, this Geert fellow.

 

[badcrumble]

Well, islamic culture is as inferior as it gets. I'd rather have people acknowledge that than to be "tolerant" and "accepting" towards such a hateful, destructive culture and allow it to spread. I like gay marriage, euthanasia, the freedom to get an abortion, freedom of speech (I don't care if you think it's hateful, it's still speech) etcetera. I like how the backwards ideals once spread by christianity are finally diminishing and I'd rather keep it that way instead of letting another primitive religion ruin it again. All the freedom and tolerance we have garnered in the past few decades could be at stake here. I've spoken with plenty of muslim teens in the Netherlands and their views on many things such as homosexuality and freedom of speech are downright sickening.

A tolerant Western culture should definitely be considered "superior" to the hateful culture that surrounds islam, and I can definitely see why Wilders would find the spread of that culture threatening.

I know I've encountered a shitload of intolerant Westerners who are homophobic or against freedom of speech. And yes, some of them were atheists.

It's about tolerance vs. intolerance, dude. Ideals held by individuals. Not about West versus East.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Geert Wilders never attacked people who are "different". He always speaks of islam/the Quran itself or extremists, not moderate muslims. He's also not crazy, none of you know shit about him apparently.

nah he's a cunt.

let's put a tax on the headscarf!

I'm not seeing it. Moderate muslims can still live the way they always have. He's trying to curb the spread of Islamic culture in the Netherlands, and rightfully so, even though I don't agree with all his methods.

Then you are clearly blind. He wants to ban the Koran as hate speech. He's an oppurtunist capitalising on fearful old white people and the crimes of low income immigrants.

I've spoken with plenty of muslim teens in the Netherlands and their views on many things such as homosexuality and freedom of speech are downright sickening.

This is often true unfortunately and they need a lesson in respecting the ladies as well, but this should be handled by a grown up and not Geert Wilders. Geerts only positive function for NL is bringing to light the issue that some of the serious politicians need to take a hard look at muslim integration/immigration policies. Which is already happening anyway.

 

[OttomanScribe]

Well, islamic culture is as inferior as it gets. I'd rather have people acknowledge that than to be "tolerant" and "accepting" towards such a hateful, destructive culture and allow it to spread. I like gay marriage, euthanasia, the freedom to get an abortion, freedom of speech (I don't care if you think it's hateful, it's still speech) etcetera. I like how the backwards ideals once spread by christianity are finally diminishing and I'd rather keep it that way instead of letting another primitive religion ruin it again. All the freedom and tolerance we have garnered in the past few decades could be at stake here. I've spoken with plenty of muslim teens in the Netherlands and their views on many things such as homosexuality and freedom of speech are downright sickening.

A tolerant Western culture should definitely be considered "superior" to the hateful culture that surrounds islam, and I can definitely see why Wilders would find the spread of that culture threatening.

I'm not sure if you are clear on exactly the positions that Geert Wilders takes. You say you like freedom of speech, and he certainly exploits it, but he wants to ban the Qur'an. What part of book banning appeals to freedom of speech to you?

Additionally, what kind of liberal theory justifies enshrining Judaism and Christianity in the constitution of a secular state? I wasn't under the impression that Christianity, or Judaism, are into man love. You say you are wary of the influence that Christianity had, yet Wilders wishes to enshrine Judeo-Christianity, along with Humanism (bizarely, considering they are contradictory) in the constitution.

As to abortion, I am assuming you have no knowledge of the Muslim position on abortion, which differs from that of the Christians, again your dislike is misplaced.

How does a tax on headscarves fit with a 'party of freedom'?

What about ethnic registration?

Doesn't sound like freedom to me. I don't think they should deny him entry, because it gives the impression that he is more important than he is.

I was not aware that teens in general are noted for their tolerance of homosexuality. Unless something has drastically changed from my High School days. Should we seek to ban or exile my homophobic white school mates also?

 

[Herbspiceguy]

Are you not hatemongering by calling him a hatemonger that "terrorizes"?

 

[Zinga]

He has a point, why shouldn't Europe be for the Europeans? immigration from the middle east and africa into Europe is a big problem.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Wilders, the guy who thinks he can talk shit about everything, but gets angry when you talk shit about him. Freedom of speech, yeah, but only if you agree with him.

I'm ashamed a large amount of my country votes for this clown.

 

[daviyoung]

Poor Canada doesn't deserve this.

 

[Chuckie]

I like how he called his party the Freedom Party.
Because it is neither a party (its a movement with only one voting member... Geert himself) nor is it about freedom but rather restricting freedoms.

 

[2San]

I'm not sure if you are clear on exactly the positions that Geert Wilders takes. You say you like freedom of speech, and he certainly exploits it, but he wants to ban the Qur'an. What part of book banning appeals to freedom of speech to you?

Stridone sounds like the typical hypocritical Wilders supporter. Freedom of Speech is only reserved for people who people who think like me! People who think differently don't have right to freedom of speech!

 

[Arjen]

I'm still waiting for Wilders to reveal that he's beeen trolling us all those years.

 

[theignoramus]

Source? Because that is absolute nonsense. Yeah, targetting a religious group specifically in such a manner would go over well in one of the most progressive, tolerant countries on earth. Think before you spout nonsense.

http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/wilders-calls-mass-deportation-muslims

 

[OttomanScribe]

He has a point, why shouldn't Europe be for the Europeans? immigration from the middle east and africa into Europe is a big problem.

Why is it a problem?

That is a two part question, the first is why is it deemed a problem by you, the second is why does it occur.

Would you say that it might possibly have something to do with the wealth of Europe? Are these people coming from wealthy countries, going to Europe for the weather or the cultural heritage? Or are they coming seeking oppurtunities?

Why would they seek oppurtunities? Could it be that Europe is wealthy?

Why is Europe wealthy and these countries not? Could it possibly have something to do with the brutal colonialism fostered by European countries for more than a hundred years? Colonialism that devastated economies, while Europe got fat off the proceeds of blood money?

If Europeans didn't want people coming to Europe to seek a better life, maybe they shouldn't have created the conditions for that to occur?

 

[Always-honest]

He seems a bit weird, but he is a lot smarter than people realise.
He´s not just a Hatemonger. He is actually concerned. People are just very afraid of what will happen if you critisize islamic people too much. Some don´t deal with critism that well.

 

[Bento]

He has a point, why shouldn't Europe be for the Europeans? immigration from the middle east and africa into Europe is a big problem.

Well to begin with a Europe inhabited exclusively by Europeans will probably run into an employment wall eventually due to low birth rates. And if we for a second ignore the amount of unemployed and uneducated foreigners for a second and remember that immigration of an educated workforce is important to remain competitive as the enrollment rates to chemistry, physics and engineering programs continues to slip. Then you have the humanitarian side of things with refugees seeking shelter from wars that we, unfortunately, are most likely involved with. Immigration policies could be a lot better in Europe but Gert is not the solution.

 

[2San]

He seems a bit weird, but he is a lot smarter than people realise.
He´s not just a Hatemonger. He is actually concerned. People are just very afraid of what will happen if you critisize islamic people too much. Some don´t deal with critism that well.

Still doesn't explain why he wants tax on headscarf(which would suck for the older white women as well since they tend to wear those as well)? Why the ban on headscarf on the fucking bus? Wants to ban the Koran. Yeah, being concerned is one thing, but outright attacking a group is something different. You can criticize Islam, but it's hilarious that people try to criticize it without even knowing what the fuck it's about. So resort to insults instead of proper criticism. You could always properly criticize Islam, feel free to provide one example where someone provided a legitimate sound argument that was somehow looked down upon.

 

[theignoramus]

He seems a bit weird, but he is a lot smarter than people realise.
He´s not just a Hatemonger. He is actually concerned. People are just very afraid of what will happen if you critisize islamic people too much. Some don´t deal with critism that well.

I wonder what he charges per speaking engagement....I know Irshad Manji comes at a steep price.

 

[OttomanScribe]

He seems a bit weird, but he is a lot smarter than people realise.
He´s not just a Hatemonger. He is actually concerned. People are just very afraid of what will happen if you critisize islamic people too much. Some don´t deal with critism that well.

I criticise people quite often. On various things. None of my criticism involves deportation, taxes on clothing, book banning or any other such thing.

I don't think he is talking about criticism, he is talking about bringing into law the kind of restrictions that are the hallmark of old school European fascist movements. Mass deportation, book banning, ethnic registration.... is that criticism to you?

 

[Casp0r]

I know I've encountered a shitload of intolerant Westerners who are homophobic or against freedom of speech. And yes, some of them were atheists.

It's about tolerance vs. intolerance, dude. Ideals held by individuals. Not about West versus East.

Of course ... thing is it isn't illegal to openly criticize these homophones and sexists ... unless of course they're Muslim.

 

[Chuckie]

Why is Europe wealthy and these countries not? Could it possibly have something to do with the brutal colonialism fostered by European countries for more than a hundred years? Colonialism that devastated economies, while Europe got fat off the proceeds of blood money?

While this is true, it is exactly this line of thinking that has caused an immigration problem in the Netherlands. People looking for wealth were invited to come here when we needed them. The problem was there weren't any restrictions. So wives, kids etc could also come over. After years this became a problem, but a problem that could not be discussed.
It could not discussed because 'we' had an evil colonial past.

Because the immigration problems could not be discussed an asshole like Wilders could rise and get shitloads of votes. There IS a problem with immigration, this problem could never ever be discussed (then you'd be called a racist) so the problem festered and as a result we have Geert.

 

[OttomanScribe]

Of course ... thing is it isn't illegal to openly criticize these homophones and sexists ... unless of course they're Muslim.

Again, that word, 'criticism'. Does book banning sound like critique to you? Does ethnic registration?

People seriously stretch the definition.

 

[Boozeroony]

He seems a bit weird, but he is a lot smarter than people realise.
He´s not just a Hatemonger. He is actually concerned. People are just very afraid of what will happen if you critisize islamic people too much. Some don´t deal with critism that well.

I agree with him on some points, but I refuse to believe that his approach is the right way to solve the problems most west European countries are facing. Although I don't really see other political parties solving the problems soon, so I guess he has a good reason shouting nonsense every now and then.

I have to say I really oppose his ideas about ' AOW-gerechtigde leeftijd', foreign policy and education. But that is not his core business.