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Dylann Roof (neo-Nazi Charleston church shooter) found guilty on all counts

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I totally understand that.

But why spend that money on him, when we could give it to someone who needs help or medical care, or food, etc?

In my mind, when its absolutely clear someone has done a such a crime, should just end it.

No a lot of cases would fit this, but ones like this sure do.

"Absolutely clear" is a human determination. I'm not comfortable with the idea that we can be absolutely clear on what is absolutely clear all the time.
 

Sesha

Member
I totally understand that.

But why spend that money on him, when we could give it to someone who needs help or medical care, or food, etc?

In my mind, when its absolutely clear someone has done a such a crime, should just end it.

No a lot of cases would fit this, but ones like this sure do.

The death penalty is more expensive than a life sentence. Giving him the death penalty would be spending more money in order to basically give him what he wants.
 

1044

Member
I wish I was better, but I'm not. I'm against the death penalty, but there's this... something inside of me that wants this little fucker to die as painfully as humanly possible.

I wish I could just accept him getting life in prison, but part of me feels like that's a cop out. I wish I could accept him getting the needle, but another part of me feels like that's a cop out.

I don't wish harm on him, yet I want him to be harmed. Am I hypocritical? Possibly.

I'm torn right now, between trying to be better and letting him just rot peacefully and enabling my basic animal instincts and letting some insect from the Amazon crawl up his urethra and eat his insides slowly.

Again, I wish I was better.

But I'm not.

I'm sure this is how a lot of people in lynch mobs feel. They get together with a bunch of like-minded individuals and let mob mentality take over.

Take 10 steps back and really look at what you're saying.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
People like Roof want to be tortured, want to be killed, to be martyrs for their cause. They also won't respond to being threatened or shamed. There is nothing you can do in a pragmatic sense but isolate them from society.
 
Just give him multiple upon multiple life sentences at the a prison for the most hardcore of offenders. No solitary confinement.
But we can't make a legal distinction between "regular probably guilty" and "everyone knows it guilty". That's not possible and will never be possible.

Also jesus christ at believing retribution underpins our legal system

Slavery underpins our legal system.
 

SheHateMe

Member
I'm sure this is how a lot of people in lynch mobs feel. They get together with a bunch of like-minded individuals and let mob mentality take over.

Take 10 steps back and really look at what you're saying.

I don't speak for a mob. I speak for myself.

I don't need to take 10 steps back from anything. I know what I wrote. I wrote it.

Do you not understand that I'm conflicted on his eventual fate? That I don't want any human to be killed in the name of justice, but at the very same time, I would want him to pay the piper for his actions? Or did you just want to add a poorly contrived counterpoint?

If you wanted to post, then do so without adding nonsense to what I said. I didn't mention anyone else but myself.

Back to what I was saying: the conflict is real and I honestly don't know how to feel.
 

1044

Member
I don't speak for a mob. I speak for myself.

I don't need to take 10 steps back from anything. I know what I wrote. I wrote it.

Do you not understand that I'm conflicted on his eventual fate? That I don't want any human to be killed in the name of justice, but at the very same time, I would want him to pay the piper for his actions? Or did you just want to add a poorly contrived counterpoint?

If you wanted to post, then do so without adding nonsense to what I said. I didn't mention anyone else but myself.

Back to what I was saying: the conflict is real and I honestly don't know how to feel.

Why do you think you feel this way about this guy? Do you feel the same way about other mass murderers? Or was it something specific about this case?
 

Mesousa

Banned
I don't speak for a mob. I speak for myself.

I don't need to take 10 steps back from anything. I know what I wrote. I wrote it.

Do you not understand that I'm conflicted on his eventual fate? That I don't want any human to be killed in the name of justice, but at the very same time, I would want him to pay the piper for his actions? Or did you just want to add a poorly contrived counterpoint?

If you wanted to post, then do so without adding nonsense to what I said. I didn't mention anyone else but myself.

Back to what I was saying: the conflict is real and I honestly don't know how to feel.

You feel the way you do for a reason.

Society evolved because throughout history humans put things like Dylan Roof down. He needs to be put down for society.
 

SheHateMe

Member
Why do you think you feel this way about this guy? Do you feel the same way about other mass murderers? Or was it something specific about this case?

Because it could've been my grandparents. It could've been me.

I felt the same way about Sandy Hook. About the Boston Marathon bombing.

Human compassion doesn't have to always have a reason. I can be compassionate and also feel anger towards what happened. I can want to forgive and also want to repay horrible acts.

I'm human. I'm complex.
 

Gattsu25

Banned
I guarantee you that your "crystal clear" standard will be used by and large against minorities. I likewise guarantee you that, in the short run or long run, it will be used against INNOCENT minorities.

Yep, this is why I can never support the death penalty.

If we could restrict it to only cases like this where it is obvious then I would have to reconsider, but if even a single innocent soul is snuffed out then I can't support it.

The justice system in America means that if as long as a harsh penalty exists, then innocent minorities WILL become victims of that penalty. It's as American as apple pie.
 
Using "make me a martyr" is a tactical defense against the death penalty by the defendant. He's using reverse psychology to get a life sentence instead of immediate death.

You're playing into his agenda by NOT doing want he wants.

I do not believe he really wants to die. I think he planned all of this.
 
Using "make me a martyr" is a tactical defense against the death penalty by the defendant. He's using reverse psychology to get a life sentence instead of immediate death.

You're playing into his agenda by NOT doing want he wants.

I do not believe he really wants to die. I think he planned all of this.

Maybe so, but executing unarmed, restrained individuals is kinda fucked up to me. No matter how horrific they are. Just put them in prison for the rest of their life.
 
Some of you should really check your bloodlust. The guy is a piece of shit but some of your replies are disturbing .

It's always made me a little uncomfortable too, especially since prison justice often relies on the fundamental failures of our prison system, but a thread about a mass-murdering neo-Nazi is going to understandably bring out darker feelings. It isn't a pleasant topic.
 

Afrocious

Member
Lol @ calling out people in this thread for 'bloodlust'. It's valid. Dude killed 9 black people in a fucking historical black church.

If he wasn't seeking to be a martyr, I'd want him dead too.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Lol @ calling out people in this thread for 'bloodlust'. It's valid. Dude killed 9 black people in a fucking historical black church.

I think the people doing the calling out probably have disagreements about the "bloodlust is valid" part, not the "he did something wrong and he's a racist committing an act of racial terror" part, so I wouldn't expect reiterating what he did is something they're likely to change their minds over.
 

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
Lol @ calling out people in this thread for 'bloodlust'. It's valid. Dude killed 9 black people in a fucking historical black church.

If he wasn't seeking to be a martyr, I'd want him dead too.

Who cares about him being a matyr. Dude needs to be executed a swift as possible.
 

shingi70

Banned
Hope whatever prison this dude goes to he doesn't get soliatry, and instead of being killed as soon as possibE, dude suffers every conceivable figure one can take in prison and then dies.
 
The sooner he plummets to hell the better. There are simply too many white supremacists in and around law enforcement and the prison system, it'll be only a matter of time before he escapes and targets another black church, or a black school or any other vulnerable place. He's too dangerous too keep around.
 

darknemus

Member
The sooner he plummets to hell the better. There are simply too many white supremacists in and around law enforcement and the prison system, it'll be only a matter of time before he escapes and targets another black church, or a black school or any other vulnerable place. He's too dangerous too keep around.

Escapes? Really? I don't think that's going to be particularly feasible since he'll be in lockdown 23+ hours a day, more than likely.
 

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
The sooner he plummets to hell the better. There are simply too many white supremacists in and around law enforcement and the prison system, it'll be only a matter of time before he escapes and targets another black church, or a black school or any other vulnerable place. He's too dangerous too keep around.

He doesn't deserve to be around. He took all of their lives so it's only fitting he loses his which his coward ass is trying everything in his power to keep.
 

collige

Banned
Ofc he gets found guilty. Some very disappointing replies in this thread about the death penalty though, especially considering its application has been shown time and time again to be racist as shit.
 

Mark L

Member
Death penality is a worthy debate, but Dylann Roof isn't a hill I would die on.

Bus transporting Roof flips over in the rain, you won't see a tear from me. But the State has gotta get outta the business of killing people, because as long as it keeps happening, innocent people, ESPECIALLY innocent POC are gonna die. Killing this fucker isn't worth one dead innocent man.

I'm an innocent man- I've also got two kids and a wife. I ask myself, is it worth it to have the State arrest me and kill me if it means people like Roof die too? The answer is "no" for myself, so how could I make it "yes" for anyone else?
 

Mesousa

Banned
Bus transporting Roof flips over in the rain, you won't see a tear from me. But the State has gotta get outta the business of killing people, because as long as it keeps happening, innocent people, ESPECIALLY innocent POC are gonna die. Killing this fucker isn't worth one dead innocent man.

I'm an innocent man- I've also got two kids and a wife. I ask myself, is it worth it to have the State arrest me and kill me if it means people like Roof die too? The answer is "no" for myself, so how could I make it "yes" for anyone else?

This is a slippery slope.

Literally ANY legal action in this country can impact innocent POC in theory. Does that mean we stop all judgements on law?
 

Mark L

Member
If you can't see why execution is a special case, why it differs from other forms of judgment and requires special examination, I can't help you.
 
Why would anyone care about "making him a martyr"? This isn't a movie. Nobody gives a fuck about whatever cause he thinks he has. Martyrdom should have no relevance whatsoever in the debate of his sentencing.
 
I'd say this brings out a lot more anger in some people because these nine black churchgoers did exactly what white moderates harangue minorities to do daily; reaching out to racists with love and understanding.

They invited him into their sanctuary and he killed them.

Many of the victims' families said they forgive him. It doesn't mean all black people have to.
 
This is a slippery slope.

Literally ANY legal action in this country can impact innocent POC in theory. Does that mean we stop all judgements on law?

I'll give you a few minutes to figure out what distinguishes a wrongful execution from every other wrongful conviction.
 

Linkura

Member
In the defense’s closing argument, Bruck said Roof was just imitating what he saw on the internet.

WTF.

Anyway, I think the death penalty is too good for this guy. He needs to spend the next 60 years or whatever he has left in a miserable prison.
 

Piggus

Member
Give this terrorist life in prison so he can rot away in ADX Florence. A painless death is going too easy on him.
 
There isn't any benefit to the death penalty unless you're willing to argue that it's the court's place to help grieving families find peace. Life without parole accomplishes much of the same goals anyway.
 

SURGEdude

Member
Good. Fuck that monster. One of the few places I'm not a leftist is when it comes to clear cut cases of extremely aggressive and one-sided murder. In cases where the person admits it or it's done so publicly as to be indisputable and that person is sane(!) they should be put to death. Call it what you want, my conscience is clear on this.

Of course the number of people who meet that threshold is likely only a handful compared to the willy nilly way most states execute people who might be innocent or whose motives or mental state are in question.

There isn't any benefit to the death penalty unless you're willing to argue that it's the court's place to help grieving families find peace. Life without parole accomplishes much of the same goals anyway.

If that's the distinction between life w/o parole and death I'd say we give deference to the family.

As far as which one is more inhumane I'd say there are pretty compelling arguments that life in a box is equal to or worse than execution.

To often I think people interpret some support for the death penalty to mean agreement with the fucked up system we have in place. I've supported the Innocence Project for years but in certain cases like this, an Oklahoma Bomber, or despot I think it's fine if society decides they can live with it.
 
The death penalty is more expensive than a life sentence. Giving him the death penalty would be spending more money in order to basically give him what he wants.

It's more expensive because of all the appeals. In a situation like this I think it's a waste.
 
I hope he gets life and is forced to live in Gen Pop. That's pretty much all I want.

See how long until he's pissing himself every hour of the day.
 

FStop7

Banned
I'd like to flip the switch on him myself if given the opportunity, but the fact is I reject the death penalty and sometimes sticking to one's values means accepting that people who deserve to die are going to remain living in order for society to progress.
 
Personally, I'm against the death penalty it's more trouble than it's worth. I'm curious to see if he gets it or not. For example, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (Boston Bomber) got the death penalty. So I'm curious if they do it to him. If he does get life, there is no way in hell he'll be general population. He'll be dead in a week.
 
It's more expensive because of all the appeals. In a situation like this I think it's a waste.

The appeals are necessary because it is impossible, legally, to have a definition of "clear cut" without that definition being able to apply to potentially innocent men.

The appeals process is a consequence of the death penalty's very existence and without it it would devalue the weight of loss of human life by means of state intervention drastically.
 

Opto

Banned
Lock him in a cell forever with another neo-nazi to avoid solitary torture and him not getting killed, but only give him books by black authors to read.
 
This part
Roof never had any regrets, sticking to his assertion that the killings had to happen after he researched “black on white crime” on the internet. He said he chose a church because that setting posed little danger to him.
..really fucked me up.

I have no words for it. My jaw is still slack.

Edit: I found words.

How does one rationalize researching on the internet black on white crime, yet proceeds to kill people that he ascertained would pose actual little harm to himself? That isn't even close to vigilantism, that is pure racial hatred seeped in the rawest form of cowardice available to sentient beings.

I don't usually believe in the death penalty, but he should be burned at the stake for this. Let a pack of wolves after him to be hunted in return.
 
If he get's death, he'll still be in jail for a solid 20 years or so. It's not like they'll take him out back and just shoot him after the jury makes their decision.

He'll have a great time in solitary for awhile, then he'll get the needle. Everybody wins!

But yes, I fully recognize that the death penalty as a whole is flawed and should be abolished.
 
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