Ninjas4Less
Banned
Fight? Who Wins? I still play empires more than 4, but I had to play 4 last night to get my weapon leveled up. HAD TO. Thoughts?
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Dynasty Warriors 4 vs Dynasty Warriors 5
- Thread starter Ninjas4Less
- Start date
Basically, as discussed here and here, there is a huge desire for DW5 to have an Empires mode or expansion. While nothing is confirmed yet (as far as I know), I don't see why Koei wouldn't make Xtreme Legends and Empires for 5.
A lot of people didn't like the additions which 4 provided to the series and a lot of them were dropped for 5. Most say this makes 5 more refined but I'd contend the additions 4 provided could have been improved instead of eliminated.
A lot of people didn't like the additions which 4 provided to the series and a lot of them were dropped for 5. Most say this makes 5 more refined but I'd contend the additions 4 provided could have been improved instead of eliminated.
Ninjas4Less
Banned
The weapon leveling up is gay, but aside from that what was added?
The main additions were the weapon exp, duels, create-a-warrior, and equippable weapon orbs (DW3 sort of had them but they were weapon specific and not interchangeable).
Orbs are still around but they don't have levels anymore. Everything else was dropped.
I think duels could have been more interesting if the game had special recognition for them (ie. having morale and lines of speech more reflect that you beat someone in a duel as opposed to it just being like you normally killed the general) and had troops from both sides surround the area to spectate instead of having the battle take place in an empty void amongst a wooden cage.
CAW just needed more of what it had and more areas of the general to customize.
Weapon exp would be a nice system to have if (something I've wanted for a while now) you'd be able to let people equip totally different weapons; the novel mentions of Dian Wei using two spears in combat, and people like Cao Cao using a whip. Giving a choice of weaponry would give more replay initiative and make the game more adaptable to a variety of tastes.
Orbs are still around but they don't have levels anymore. Everything else was dropped.
I think duels could have been more interesting if the game had special recognition for them (ie. having morale and lines of speech more reflect that you beat someone in a duel as opposed to it just being like you normally killed the general) and had troops from both sides surround the area to spectate instead of having the battle take place in an empty void amongst a wooden cage.
CAW just needed more of what it had and more areas of the general to customize.
Weapon exp would be a nice system to have if (something I've wanted for a while now) you'd be able to let people equip totally different weapons; the novel mentions of Dian Wei using two spears in combat, and people like Cao Cao using a whip. Giving a choice of weaponry would give more replay initiative and make the game more adaptable to a variety of tastes.
Ninjas4Less
Banned
I always hated duels, thats good news. Maybe ill grab it today.
Drinky Crow
Banned
Duels sucked. They coulda been awesome, but instead they just favored who had the better Musou attack. Booooring.
MrAngryFace
Banned
Just played DW4 Empires myself. 600 dead by my blade just to take over a tiny little castle. They should have let me have it.
YUE YING FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!
YUE YING FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!
Synbios459
Banned
Speaking of DW games, I have never owned one, is DW5 the best one yet, or should I get 1-4?
Synbios459 said:
Yes, DW5 is the best. DW1 is a fighitng game for the PS1 and is kind of rough-edged but playable. Can't recall much about DW2, but DW3 is probably the most balanced of the series though it's lacking the character selection of later games (obviously), and 4 is good and has some interesting ideas (like weapon leveling) but it also makes you put up with a lot of bullshit too (like duels and having to do a billion things in battles for orbs/saddles/final weapons/etc.) I say buy 5 if you think that'll hold you, but you might want to get 4 too for the expansion packs too. And don't forget about Samurai Warriors
Synbios459
Banned
"but DW3 is probably the most balanced of the series " Could you please elaborate?
Synbios459 said:
It's mainly in things like character and weapon balance and AI (I felt that Koei tried to make the characters more equal to one another in this one compared to 4 where a lot of the new guys were overpowered due to a lack of tweaking, and in a lot of DW4 fights I'd lose big battles because of the way the stages were set up, such as falling off a castle and watching enemy officers recharge themselves and boost their stats while I fought my way back up. This doesn't happen as often in 3)
Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
Ugh, DW5...it's over. But if you've never played one, it's probably the best.
Bring on the Empires!
Bring on the Empires!
MrAngryFace
Banned
DW - One of the best game series ever made.
Drinky Crow
Banned
Samurai Warriors has lame characters, though. Seriously, outside of Hattori Fucking Hanzo and that dude with the gunsword, who the hell is worth playing? Answer: NO-ONE.
DW5 has fucking PANG DE. Seriously. The dude wields TWO HALBERDS at once. There's not a Nihongo on that entire little island that would last five minutes at He Fei against a motherfucker who can one-fist a goddamn halberd.
Plus who can ruin your entire day like THE BU?
DW5 has fucking PANG DE. Seriously. The dude wields TWO HALBERDS at once. There's not a Nihongo on that entire little island that would last five minutes at He Fei against a motherfucker who can one-fist a goddamn halberd.
Plus who can ruin your entire day like THE BU?
What is this gamefaqs? You people oughta be fooking ashamed. OMG SOLID SNAKE CAN TOTALLYZ TAKE LEON! MGS WIN!!!
There is quite a bit more excess to the actual GAME in SW than what DW5 delivers. It is those elements where DW5 needs to fucking step up and start delivering in my argument. DW5 is a pretty big leap backwards in terms of combat, field management, and sheer progression.
Don't be losers. Be winners! Play SWXL!
There is quite a bit more excess to the actual GAME in SW than what DW5 delivers. It is those elements where DW5 needs to fucking step up and start delivering in my argument. DW5 is a pretty big leap backwards in terms of combat, field management, and sheer progression.
Don't be losers. Be winners! Play SWXL!
Ninjas4Less
Banned
DW5 seems a lot harder than 4, jesus. Just the second mission with the new girl on shu in normal is throwing me for a loop. Fat guy with stone baseball bat keeps showing up and even with mosou rage up faggy claw guy shows up and dead.
Oh well ill keep trying. I cant imagine hard mode if its this hard in stage 2 of shu ;P,
I do fine in DW4 Empires and DW4
Oh well ill keep trying. I cant imagine hard mode if its this hard in stage 2 of shu ;P,
I do fine in DW4 Empires and DW4
Drinky Crow
Banned
Ninjas: play through a few easy maps on Normal, like Yellow Turban, to get a good Peacock Urn or whatever it is that boosts Defense. (Watch out, though, Zhang Liao or whatever the head yellow turban dude is can be a fuck, so save a Rage for him.) After that, the game gets easy.
Oh, and Xing Cai seriously sucks. She's simply worthless in a fight.
Brandon: Zhuge Liang floats, too, and shoots huge lasers. SW's "depth" is largely worthless, since each map is just you running between event triggers -- DW5 requires you take and hold bases and keep supply lines open, plus you're rewarded for KILLING EN MASSE. In SW, killing groups of non-elite duders was largely just for show.
Oh, and Xing Cai seriously sucks. She's simply worthless in a fight.
Brandon: Zhuge Liang floats, too, and shoots huge lasers. SW's "depth" is largely worthless, since each map is just you running between event triggers -- DW5 requires you take and hold bases and keep supply lines open, plus you're rewarded for KILLING EN MASSE. In SW, killing groups of non-elite duders was largely just for show.
Drinky Crow
Banned
No way. SW characters are all fruity or stupid, HATTORI FUCKING HANZO aside. (And the gun dude, although he's boring to play as.) Keiji Maeda looks like a Kabuki fruit who joined the KISS Army -- what the hell? Nobunaga looks like a Tekken reject. And there isn't a single cool female -- who the fuck wants to play as a dumb tyke with a yoyo, a halfwit raver tramp turned ninja, or a badly-voiced geisha?
Like I said, not one of 'em is a patch on Pang De, Ling Tong, Yue Ying, or STEP TO YOUR GOD XIAHOU DUN.
Like I said, not one of 'em is a patch on Pang De, Ling Tong, Yue Ying, or STEP TO YOUR GOD XIAHOU DUN.
Shouta
Member
And Dynasty Warriors is any different? Look at the Qiaos, Gan Ning, Pang Tong, Zhang He or Xu Chu for overly generic/boring/lame designs. You got two lolipants females, a generic pirate, a generic mystic oldman/sage, The girly-man narcissist, and the fat idiot with a big hammer/club/mallet/whatever you want to call it. At least the SW characters look unique and are interesting to look at. I've been playing since DW2 and I still can't tell the difference between certain designs if you take off their heads.
See I don't see where SW falters on the whole 'supply line' issue. Victory on a map such as Honnouji is practically reliant on gate control, soldiers pour in at devastating numbers and ARE your worst threat. Tasks to save your compatriots are far from worthless given their assistance in quelling the madness and eliciting post-battle bonuses. In fact, killing en masse serves as a huge bump to your skill points which add to a lofty move repertiore cut back in DW5.
The event triggers overall DO add nuance and personality to a rather baseless concept of ping-ponging the 'named' generals/soldiers in DW5. The sense of urgency to meet or beat these missions DOES sort of take away from the laxed approach that DW5 delivers, but they also bring identity to the maps, it's damn near impossible to recall a single interesting quality about the 5 maps that make up the last character I finished DW5 with(new chick with the shield and trident). Map replayability is also given a boost maximizing the mission count, particularly when you are given a choice on how to proceed.
I dunno, DW6 could really use some of the features SW delivered. If anything the ability to zoom out slightly would be most appreciated. DW5 removes the pop-in, but it just means I get REALLY lost eyeballing my character sitting twenty soldiers. Where's Xiayou Dun??
PS. XL added a new hottie female named Inahime.
The event triggers overall DO add nuance and personality to a rather baseless concept of ping-ponging the 'named' generals/soldiers in DW5. The sense of urgency to meet or beat these missions DOES sort of take away from the laxed approach that DW5 delivers, but they also bring identity to the maps, it's damn near impossible to recall a single interesting quality about the 5 maps that make up the last character I finished DW5 with(new chick with the shield and trident). Map replayability is also given a boost maximizing the mission count, particularly when you are given a choice on how to proceed.
I dunno, DW6 could really use some of the features SW delivered. If anything the ability to zoom out slightly would be most appreciated. DW5 removes the pop-in, but it just means I get REALLY lost eyeballing my character sitting twenty soldiers. Where's Xiayou Dun??
PS. XL added a new hottie female named Inahime.
MrAngryFace
Banned
I dunno, soldiers in DW5 are easily a threat if you dont play on easy 
Diomedeskun
Member
I would love to see Koei do more similar games that are not set in Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Samurai Warriors was a start. How about Shui Hu Zhuen (the basis for Suikoden)? Cao Cao and Liu Bei are cool, but I want to play as Lin Chong the Leopard Headed, Sagacious Lu, or Ten Feet of Steel. The story has 108 unique warriors with different weapons and fighting styles.
The American Revolution or the Napoleonic wars would be cool, and both have featured in Koei strategy games, but guns might ruin them. The Illiad would be perfect, with its myriad of distinct warriors, even though most used a combination of sword and spear to fight with.
The American Revolution or the Napoleonic wars would be cool, and both have featured in Koei strategy games, but guns might ruin them. The Illiad would be perfect, with its myriad of distinct warriors, even though most used a combination of sword and spear to fight with.
Well Tadakatsu Honda is also pretty cool for that Lu Bu-ish destruction frenzy. The leftovers...well that guy using a soccer ball to kill stuff IS pretty goofy.
But yea, playing SW without XL is like Diablo 2 without it's expansion. HUGE patch fixes and some bonus features such as a shop that dolls out points for just playing. (Buy new mem card icons, costumes, even the ability to earn ultimate weapons on a lower difficulty). It even adds flora and fauna to certain older maps and fits in new textures. XL is a helluva package.
Patch fixes:
-Difficulty readjustment and balance (better loot drops on higher difficulty with more frequency, castle drops actually appear now)
-Level cap doesn't prevent characters from still earning skill points. Lots of new skills added as well, really awesome playing with a high level character on Chaos difficulty. (This ties into the difficulty adjustments as well)
-Co-op now offers separate musou gauges
-Lots of other subtle adjustments including the above graphic changes
But yea, playing SW without XL is like Diablo 2 without it's expansion. HUGE patch fixes and some bonus features such as a shop that dolls out points for just playing. (Buy new mem card icons, costumes, even the ability to earn ultimate weapons on a lower difficulty). It even adds flora and fauna to certain older maps and fits in new textures. XL is a helluva package.
Patch fixes:
-Difficulty readjustment and balance (better loot drops on higher difficulty with more frequency, castle drops actually appear now)
-Level cap doesn't prevent characters from still earning skill points. Lots of new skills added as well, really awesome playing with a high level character on Chaos difficulty. (This ties into the difficulty adjustments as well)
-Co-op now offers separate musou gauges
-Lots of other subtle adjustments including the above graphic changes
Drinky Crow
Banned
SW has 15 characters. DW5 has 52. Yeah, there's a few gimps in that 52 -- I'll give you the Qiaos and Xu Shu -- and a few of the sword/spear guys are a bit samey, but again I ask you, WHERE IN SW IS BADASSNESS EQUAL TO PANG DE OR XIAHOU DUN? Hanzo almost reaches those lofty heights, but his gay magick musou sells him short.
Answer: no the fuck where! SW is 12 gimps and 3 rockstars (forgot about Honda, he's alright with me). DW5 has at least 10, if not more, hardcore motherfuckers in that roster. Man, I can just FEEL Xiahou Dun cuttin' down fools like so much wheat before the harvest. The so-called "Samurai Warriors", on the other hand, are just a bunch of sausages. Besides, lame loli trash that the Qiaos are, they still beat Little Miss Yoyo Twat and Raver McNinjateen. See, DW5 even has better gimps!
Fuck, is there an actual SAMURAI anywhere in SW? At least they got the ninja thang right with Hanzo, although Teehee Kunoichi almost -- ALMOST -- cancels his hardrock ninja awesomeness out.
Answer: no the fuck where! SW is 12 gimps and 3 rockstars (forgot about Honda, he's alright with me). DW5 has at least 10, if not more, hardcore motherfuckers in that roster. Man, I can just FEEL Xiahou Dun cuttin' down fools like so much wheat before the harvest. The so-called "Samurai Warriors", on the other hand, are just a bunch of sausages. Besides, lame loli trash that the Qiaos are, they still beat Little Miss Yoyo Twat and Raver McNinjateen. See, DW5 even has better gimps!
Fuck, is there an actual SAMURAI anywhere in SW? At least they got the ninja thang right with Hanzo, although Teehee Kunoichi almost -- ALMOST -- cancels his hardrock ninja awesomeness out.
Drinky Crow
Banned
I only have the Xbox Samurai Warriors. 
No XL for me!
No XL for me!If your definition of "samurai" is Mitsurugi from SC, then Mitsuhide Akechi fills that role...not as badass looking AS 'ol Mitsu though...
Wish I had a pic of Ranmaru Moori's alt costume to post just to make Doug clench onto all that testocerone of his as if it was his last drop.
Wish I had a pic of Ranmaru Moori's alt costume to post just to make Doug clench onto all that testocerone of his as if it was his last drop.
Shouta
Member
So Drinky is the Xiahou Dun fanboy! We knew he had to be a fanboy of something. 
I still like the SW cast more than I do most of the DW cast (sans Goemon, jeezus he's annoying as fuck). Okuni, Uesugi, and Magoichi rock.
Yukimura and Mitsuhide would be the stereotypical Samurai both in armor and weapons.
Edit: Oh yeah, Kunoichi wouldn't be too bad if she wasn't a total fucking airhead. Her secondary costume (with a few adjustments) rocks.
I still like the SW cast more than I do most of the DW cast (sans Goemon, jeezus he's annoying as fuck). Okuni, Uesugi, and Magoichi rock.
Yukimura and Mitsuhide would be the stereotypical Samurai both in armor and weapons.
Edit: Oh yeah, Kunoichi wouldn't be too bad if she wasn't a total fucking airhead. Her secondary costume (with a few adjustments) rocks.
Drinky Crow
Banned
Mitsuhide's a femme-faced pretty boy. I thought he was a chick-urai like what's-her-name from Last Blade the first time I saw him. Plus what's up with the fruity Western-style armor? Yukimura lacks testosterone, too; Zhou Tai is more of a samurai than the entire SW cast combined.
Yes, I am a Xiahou Dun fanboy. HE YANKED AN ARROW FROM HIS SKULL AND ATE HIS EYE OFF IT, dammit! HE ATE HIS FUCKING EYE. What did Mitsuhide ever do -- break a nail once? He didn't stop a man's heart in terror by eating his own eye in front of him, that's for bloody sure!
Yes, I am a Xiahou Dun fanboy. HE YANKED AN ARROW FROM HIS SKULL AND ATE HIS EYE OFF IT, dammit! HE ATE HIS FUCKING EYE. What did Mitsuhide ever do -- break a nail once? He didn't stop a man's heart in terror by eating his own eye in front of him, that's for bloody sure!
Drinky Crow
Banned
Ma Chao, Yue Ying, and Lu Meng aren't generic, though I'll give you the rest. The Cao Cao/Liu Bei/Sun Jian swordstyle trifecta is pretty dull, too -- and you can add Sun Quan to them, as well. Still, there's maybe three generic spear dudes and four generic sword dudes outta FIFTY FREAKIN' TWO characters. If you can't find a couple dudes bad enough to save the president in that lineup, U R TEH SW FANBOY!!!!!111
MrAngryFace
Banned
Bel: Yeah but look at your avatar.
Drinky Crow
Banned
YELLOW FEVER
Drinky Crow
Banned
Besides, Cao Pi with Darth Maul swordstaff action is a better b-boy fighter than any off the Poofterai Warriors.
Drinky Crow
Banned
<3 xiahou dun <3 <3
Shouta
Member
Damn, I forgot about Mitsuhide's armor. I don't know why he wore that armor type although I bet it has to do with his personality. Armor aside, he's the typical Samurai in attitude and etc. As for what he did, as I recall, Mitsuhide was the one that forced the suicide of Nobunaga Oda at Honno-ji Temple. It may not be on the same badass scale it's certainly more than breaking a nail =P.
Yukimura is way more Samurai than Zhou Tai. Zhou Tai just has the helmet and the scar that makes him look more badass. Yukimura did more badass shit. If breaking through Nobunaga's army lines with a handful of men to attack him directly isn't badass, I don't know what is.
Yukimura is way more Samurai than Zhou Tai. Zhou Tai just has the helmet and the scar that makes him look more badass. Yukimura did more badass shit. If breaking through Nobunaga's army lines with a handful of men to attack him directly isn't badass, I don't know what is.