Teknopathetic
Member
I know it'll take a while, but I eventually want to be able to recognize perfect pitch (for improvisational and writing reasons). Any thoughts? Tips? Words of wisdom?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Ear training. Tips?
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
- Status
Silent_Echo
Banned
Your best bet is to call Dr. Nemoy and see id he has any old Spock ears you can have.
It's the only way.
It's the only way.
warabi-mochi
Member
Well, perfect pitch isn't really entirely useful. It's neat, but it won't be a great help when it comes to learning/writing music. On top of that, a lot of people never manage to acquire perfect pitch no matter how much they try and work towards it. Your mileage may vary I suppose, but it's probably best not to waste your time.
As for ear training, it's generally useful to learn how to follow chord progressions. Once you can do this well, learning and following music becomes much easier. Also, you'll want to practice how to notate/learn rythms from music as well. Meaning don't worry about the specific notes, just practice putting the start/ending of notes in the right place.
Easiest ways to do this are just to listen to lots of music, and start learning the chords. Usually people find it easiest to start with easier things, like 50's/60's rock songs, lots of blues, etc. The chords are fairly simple, and they use the same patterns over quite a bit. this makes it much easier to recognize them, and gives you a good base to expand from.
Learn the progressions, and notice most songs follow the same ones. Doing this takes out the necessity for perfect pitch anyway, because even if it doesn't sound entirely right, it's not very hard to switch the song to the right chords/notes if you already know the chord progression.
I can go into more detail and track some book names down for you later if you want. I kind of have everything packed up right now, and I'm having trouble thinking of something off the top of my head. Especially something that isn't for teaching kids, heh.
Anyway, if you already know all of this, I guess you can just disregard the post. In that case I'll just say to keep working on your music studies and apply your time to something more useful than trying to acquire perfect pitch.
As for ear training, it's generally useful to learn how to follow chord progressions. Once you can do this well, learning and following music becomes much easier. Also, you'll want to practice how to notate/learn rythms from music as well. Meaning don't worry about the specific notes, just practice putting the start/ending of notes in the right place.
Easiest ways to do this are just to listen to lots of music, and start learning the chords. Usually people find it easiest to start with easier things, like 50's/60's rock songs, lots of blues, etc. The chords are fairly simple, and they use the same patterns over quite a bit. this makes it much easier to recognize them, and gives you a good base to expand from.
Learn the progressions, and notice most songs follow the same ones. Doing this takes out the necessity for perfect pitch anyway, because even if it doesn't sound entirely right, it's not very hard to switch the song to the right chords/notes if you already know the chord progression.
I can go into more detail and track some book names down for you later if you want. I kind of have everything packed up right now, and I'm having trouble thinking of something off the top of my head. Especially something that isn't for teaching kids, heh.
Anyway, if you already know all of this, I guess you can just disregard the post. In that case I'll just say to keep working on your music studies and apply your time to something more useful than trying to acquire perfect pitch.
Teknopathetic
Member
Well, so far I've just been memorizing intervals. I would like perfect pitch, but you do make a strong argument for me to not bother. Should I just stick with intervals and things of that sort?
Learning intervals is the most important part. Also, do you play an instrument? I play a trombone which is in the key of Bb. After studying it for years I've developed the ability to internally hear a Bb, but no other note. Try looking for a single note that you can hear internally - such a note, combined with relative pitch will give you, more or less, perfect pitch. You won't be able to hear a cluster chord and be able to tell all the notes in it like some musical geniuses, but it will be a very helpful tool.Tre said:
And also something that's been more important for me as a classical musician has been learning to hear which part of the chord the note I'm playing is. Do you play jazz or classical or some other type of music? Depending on which style you play different skills are more important.
Teknopathetic
Member
"Learning intervals is the most important part. Also, do you play an instrument?"
Bass. I can somewhat recognize the open string notes (G, D, A, E).
"Do you play jazz or classical or some other type of music"
A slight bit of jazz.
Bass. I can somewhat recognize the open string notes (G, D, A, E).
"Do you play jazz or classical or some other type of music"
A slight bit of jazz.
Since you're playing jazz bass, you'll always know what chord you're playing, so I guess that aspect of ear training isn't really neccesary. are you looking to be able to hear and notate or play back melodies? if so, then the best way to do that is learn the intervals and then, like someone above mentioned, listen to recordings or other musicians and play back what they played.
I am a classical pianist, I have perfect pitch and I absolutely never use it except to show it off, because classical pieces are generally 100% scripted and the important things are melody and harmony - not the specific placements. However, it does have its uses. If you're playing jazz and you decide to go off on a free solo, you need to understand where you are so you can get back there once the solo's over. Perhaps it's not the most crucial thing, but if you really want it, the way I learned follows:
The best way to learn perfect pitch may very well be to just sit down at a piano, strike a key blindly (or have someone else do it for you), and try to place it. Trial and error will take you farther than you might expect. At first, play octaves, so that you can hear two E's and not just one, out in the middle of nowhere.
The best way to learn perfect pitch may very well be to just sit down at a piano, strike a key blindly (or have someone else do it for you), and try to place it. Trial and error will take you farther than you might expect. At first, play octaves, so that you can hear two E's and not just one, out in the middle of nowhere.
Teknopathetic
Member
"are you looking to be able to hear and notate or play back melodies?" Yup. I'm mostly interested in being able to solo and improvise off the top of my head (from hearing melodies and what not in my head).
"The best way to learn perfect pitch may very well be to just sit down at a piano, strike a key blindly (or have someone else do it for you), and try to place it. Trial and error will take you farther than you might expect. At first, play octaves, so that you can hear two E's and not just one, out in the middle of nowhere."
I have no access to a piano.
"The best way to learn perfect pitch may very well be to just sit down at a piano, strike a key blindly (or have someone else do it for you), and try to place it. Trial and error will take you farther than you might expect. At first, play octaves, so that you can hear two E's and not just one, out in the middle of nowhere."
I have no access to a piano.
warabi-mochi
Member
Well, you don't have to worry about hearing all of the notes in chords. The next step in music theory after intervals is learning chord construction. It's really the reason you learn intervals in the first place.
Hearing the chords in music isn't so much about hearing all of the notes in a chord as it is just finding the root of the chord while that chord is in use. Once you know the root note is G for example, it becomes much easier to not only place all of the notes in the melody for that measure, but it gives you a pretty good hint about where the next bar of music is going to go and what notes are probably being used there as well.
It's really going to come down to spending lots of time listening to and notating music. Most of my students usually found it easiest to find the chords first, then notate out the melody, either by finding the melody notes first, then placing them properly rythmically, or by doing the opposite (notate rythm first, then figure out what notes are actually played.)
Hearing the chords in music isn't so much about hearing all of the notes in a chord as it is just finding the root of the chord while that chord is in use. Once you know the root note is G for example, it becomes much easier to not only place all of the notes in the melody for that measure, but it gives you a pretty good hint about where the next bar of music is going to go and what notes are probably being used there as well.
It's really going to come down to spending lots of time listening to and notating music. Most of my students usually found it easiest to find the chords first, then notate out the melody, either by finding the melody notes first, then placing them properly rythmically, or by doing the opposite (notate rythm first, then figure out what notes are actually played.)
Teknopathetic
Member
Gotcha. Thanks for the advice (everyone).
warabi-mochi
Member
I teach out of my house. I had to break down and buy myself a good piano, just to get out of studio teaching. The amount of time and money I lost teaching at various music schools just wasn't worth giving up anymore. Took a long while to pay it off, but it was worth it in the end.
Teknopathetic
Member
That's awesome, Belmakor.
NLB2 said:
Nice, but believe me - completely unecessary. Every theory teacher I've talked with says that a really well-trained sense of relative pitch is far more useful than perfect pitch. Granted that what I've got helped me test out of all four semesters of Aural Skills training, but that doesn't mean it's more applicable to real life.
warabi-mochi
Member
sonarrat said:
You can put me in this camp as well.
Just for fun, try learning a song entirely by ear without looking at any sheet music or tablature. That's what I did, in a nutshell. To this day I can't name notes or chords just by hearing, but after doing that for so long I can learn almost about any song I want to exclusively by ear without much trouble.
It takes a lot of practice and concentration, but sooner or later you'll get a feel for what "range" to go for when improvising or learning a song. What helped me a lot was knowing the basic structure of scales and chords. Like everyone else has said, the intervals are key. If you know where to put your steps and half steps, a lot of the time all you'll need to know is where the root is on the fretboard (in your case) and you're set. Who knows, it might be even easier for you, since you probably know more theory than I do.
It takes a lot of practice and concentration, but sooner or later you'll get a feel for what "range" to go for when improvising or learning a song. What helped me a lot was knowing the basic structure of scales and chords. Like everyone else has said, the intervals are key. If you know where to put your steps and half steps, a lot of the time all you'll need to know is where the root is on the fretboard (in your case) and you're set. Who knows, it might be even easier for you, since you probably know more theory than I do.
={<SMOKE>}=
Member
go to: www.musictheory.net
there's a bunch of lessons and trainers, and they even have a chord calculator utitilty which is extremely helpful.
there's a bunch of lessons and trainers, and they even have a chord calculator utitilty which is extremely helpful.
I gotta agree, it's all about learning intervals. Then, like someone said, you just need that one note you can reproduce in your head. I play cello, so I can always here ADGC (the 4 strings) in my head. From there, I just pick one of those and find the interval, and I can then tell you what note it was. Just takes practice.
- Status