Duck of Death
Member
How is it unfair? You seem to be saying that games must be judged on a purely objective level. How?
EGM GOTY?
- Thread starter CrimsonSkies
- Start date
Duck of Death said:
You have a good question. There is no way to judge a game based on an objective level, that's why I think common sense and merits should be the deciding factors. But what is common sense? It is a very subjective feeling.
I can illustrate my example comparing the old Star Wars episodes with the new ones. A lot of people will argue that Episode I and II are way better than the original, but that's just an unfair and sad comparision. Or the 1968's Planet of the Apes X The remake, Spider Man x Hulk, Pulp Fiction x Broken Arrow... Whatever.
CrimsonSkies
Member
"The fact is: MGS3 is the ultimate game for this generation of videogames."
Some of you crack me up. :lol
Some of you crack me up. :lol
CrimsonSkies
Member
"Your tag makes you a very unbiased poster."
Nonetheless you do make me laugh ahah.
"We also had fun trying to guess how many times the graphics quality would pop-in during the in-game cutscenes. "
Yes that sounds like the typical dorm full of casual players who were playing Halo 2.
Nonetheless you do make me laugh ahah.
"We also had fun trying to guess how many times the graphics quality would pop-in during the in-game cutscenes. "
Yes that sounds like the typical dorm full of casual players who were playing Halo 2.
Duck of Death
Member
bobafett said:
I'm not sure what you mean by those comparisons. Are you appealing to some sort of knowledge or authority of form? If so, then those comparisons are flawed for this argument. In those film comparisons, it is easy for someone with knowledge of the formal elements of film to determine which film is inferior. One can easily say that Pulp Fiction is a better film than Broken Arrow, but is it as easy when comparing Pulp Fiction to The Shawshank Redemption?
The "game of the year" choices are more comparable to choosing between Pulp Fiction and The Shawshank Redemption than Pulp Fiction and Broken Arrow. In both Metal Gear Solid 3 and Halo 2, the formal elements of the game are masterfully done. The writers at EGM understand the form of video games, so how can they determine which game is superior when both games are so successful in their execution?
They would probably make this decision by appealing to their own tastes and experiences.
bobafett said:
No one thinks the new Star Wars movies are better than the originals. (at least I hope not)
Everybody has an opinion. You can think Halo 2 and Ninja Gaiden are the worst games ever made, but it's not a joke or a lack of common sense for someone to disagree with you. That's it.
siamesedreamer
Banned
Finally some love!!!
Halo 2 GOTY? I'm not so 'sho 'bot dat. I think the multiplayer's excellent in it's own way, though the level design isn't as good as the stuff in Halo PC. The single player though... maybe it's just me, but the story became really, really stupid. I loved Halo's story and it had promise into becoming really cool, but it just went down the poop chute (including the Miyazaki/House of Horrors flyeater plant... uhhh, wtf?). The levels were the worst parts of Halo 1, but more of them. And the Earth level... kicked ass, but WTF? In all the commercials and everything they hype it like it's going to be a huge battle on Earth, but it's only one level... ? I would've agreed with Ninja Gaiden as GOTY. Great game. Haven't played MGS3 yet.
satterfield
BIGTIME TV MOGUL
Dave Long said:
I disagree. If you look around you'll see that Halo 2 really is the concensus pick. Even if it isn't chosen by any given publication, which is pretty rare, it's almost always mentioned as the second pick and one that was just edged out by another game. You can't say that about any other game from last year. And it's not surprising that people here constantly bag on Halo 2 and try to make it seem like it was such a disappointment, when it's absolutely not. I would guess I've logged over 100 hours on Xbox Live in addition to playing through the single-player campaign on two difficulty settings, playing co-op, and split-screen DM. Nothing else even comes close to the enjoyment I've received from that game. And yes, Halo 2 is darn lucky that RE4 was released two weeks too late.
GA is just about the only place that chose MGS3 as game of the year. Personally, I wouldn't even place it in the top five or six of last year. Lots of MGS fanboys in this here message board who refuse to see all the flaws in that game. I don't know how anyone could say that the healing and eating systems were anything but highly annoying after the second time you used them. But hey, everyone's entitled to their opinion, I guess.
Malcolm Reynolds
Banned
Thats better.
satterfield
BIGTIME TV MOGUL
Meier said:
So you think it's all right to spend 10 minutes navigating menus after each battle just to heal yourself? You think it's all right that the game hasn't been overhauled since the PlayStation era and its camera system and controls are dinosaurs? If you're the type of player that likes cinematic games with a decent story and graphics and can disregard a lot of other issues because of it, that's fine. But to claim that a game that has that many flaws and has been left so far in the dust in so many areas should be game of the year is a big stretch.
People can say that opinions are opinions and that you shouldn't take anyone's opinion on a game as fact. But the truth is, there are certain aspects of games that are either right or wrong. Either the controls work well or they don't. Either the camera gives you a good view of the action or it doesn't. A game is either well-paced or it's not. There's no grey area there. Most complaints with Halo 2 fall into a grey area where people with certain preconceived notions allow them to alter their opinion. A lot of Halo 2 haters are PC gamers who hate to see the holy grail of PC games, Half-Life 2, get second place. A lot of Halo 2 haters are Nintendo fanboys who are disappointed that Prime 2 dropped the ball. A lot of Halo 2 haters are MGS fanboys.
Hardcore Halo fans leaving Halo 2? I don't think so. Subscriptions to Xbox Live have grown by 800,000 since the game's launch. I don't think you can attribute that to OutRun 2's online play.
When I first got into television I would say, "Oh that show is awful. How does it get good ratings?" Well, the truth is, it's the audience who decides what's good or bad. End of story. You may think something's great, but ultimately the people who invest the money or time into something are the ones who decide if it's a success or not. It's the same deal with video games. There's a reason Halo 2 outsold GTA: SA on a console with not even 1/4 of the user base. It's because the people who mattter (the people who are spending the money and time) think it's a better game. And let's not even bother comparing Halo 2 with Snake Eater.
Doom_Bringer
Banned
^ Lots of batshit in there but I will tell you one thing. It doesn't take 10 mins to heal yourself in MGS3.
Oh and Half life 2 is better than Halo 2.
Oh and Half life 2 is better than Halo 2.
CrimsonSkies
Member
"GA is just about the only place that chose MGS3 as game of the year. Personally, I wouldn't even place it in the top five or six of last year. Lots of MGS fanboys in this here message board who refuse to see all the flaws in that game. I don't know how anyone could say that the healing and eating systems were anything but highly annoying after the second time you used them. But hey, everyone's entitled to their opinion, I guess."
Spot on.
Spot on.
Malcolm Reynolds
Banned
So for something to be a sucess it has to have good ratings or sell well... :lol
satterfield
BIGTIME TV MOGUL
Doom_Bringer said:
Let's see, after major battles you'll have three burns, four bullet holes, and a broken bone (at least). For each of those injuries you'll have to go through three steps to heal. Using simple math, that's 24 menu steps to find and execute to heal Snake. Can someone here who loves this game please explain to me where they get enjoyment out of this mechanic?
Oh, and could you please point out exactly what I said that is "batshit?" And of course, your last quote pretty much says it all. You must have missed the part of my post that says, "A lot of Halo 2 haters are PC gamers who hate to see the holy grail of PC games, Half-Life 2, get second place."
satterfield said:
Err, you're missing the point -- Halo fans bought it initially and created or renewed their live accounts to play it but many have been vastly disappointed by it in the long run due to changes to hit detection, among other things. I know a crew of about 20 guys who played Halo daily for 5-6 hours for literally years straight who have already given up on Halo 2 since it's (in their opinion) a step backwards from the original.
As far as the single player game goes though, it is as the original -- completely average. It's not plagued by the awful level design of the original, but instead by annoying graphical flaws and one of, if not the worst, endings in game history. The game is overrated -- that simple.
satterfield
BIGTIME TV MOGUL
Malcolm Reynolds said:
No, it just has to sell well, or in television's case, be watched. It doesn't matter how good or bad you or I think it is. That was my entire point, and that's business my friend.
SolidSnakex
Member
satterfield said:
HALO 2 isn't outselling GTASA though.
satterfield
BIGTIME TV MOGUL
Meier said:
So you're basing your entire opinion on a group of 20 of your friends who you've likely told about 500 times that Halo 2 is a disappointment? Let me guess, you also told them that everyone on your ultra leet video game message board think the same thing. I just remembered why I never bother debating with people on message boards.
Malcolm Reynolds
Banned
I think you have confused yourself reread your post and then reread mine..
Doom_Bringer
Banned
satterfield said:
It might have taken you 10 mins to do that but it didn't take me that long. And yes the healing mechanic isn't fun.
"camera system and controls are dinosaurs?" Camera is bad but not "dinosaurs" bad
Controls were fine with me."There's a reason Halo 2 outsold GTA: SA on a console with not even 1/4 of the user base."
Correct me if I am wrong but GTA SA sold more than Halo 2.
I am not a PC gamer, I am a GAMER I like good games.
Lets breakdown both games
WEAPONS Half Life 2 > Halo 2
Story Half Life 2 > Halo 2
Graphics Half Life 2 > Halo 2
Music Half Life 2 < Halo 2
Multiplayer Half life 2 < Halo 2
Controls Half Life 2 > Halo 2
Load times Half life 2 < Halo 2
Levels Half Life 2 > Halo 2
Pimpbaa
Member
Doom_Bringer said:Lets breakdown both games
WEAPONS Half Life 2 > Halo 2
Story Half Life 2 > Halo 2
Graphics Half Life 2 > Halo 2
Music Half Life 2 < Halo 2
Multiplayer Half life 2 < Halo 2
Controls Half Life 2 > Halo 2
Load times Half life 2 < Halo 2
Levels Half Life 2 > Halo 2
Doom_Bringer > satterfield
I'm no PC fan by any means (my least favorite platform and xbox being my favorite), but Half Life 2 sure as hell is the better game.
Socreges said:
Without multiplayer it couldnt possibly be the best game. My vote went to Ninja Gaiden. Not only did it have the best art, graphics and gameplay, it had Ninja's.
Oh yeah, another Halo 2 GOTY, on xbox no less. All you povs who dont own one must be getting the hint sooner or later.
satterfield, you are so remarkably caught up your own ass. And your shit stinks the worst. Breath in for fucks sake.
OK, so...
I enjoy the MGS series. I've always liked the type of gameplay that it has. So that's why I was very disappointed with MGS2. The level design was often poor and uninteresting, and the story was awful and disengaging. I thought the gameplay system had a lot of potential (this shined in the VR missions). MGS3, I think, realized this potential ten-fold. It's a wonderful game.
In MGS3, the healing/eating mechanics are not fun. Instead, they served to broaden the experience. Snake, insofar as you are Snake, became more than a character to a greater extent. Those aspects never annoyed me. They just immersed me into the experience even more. Oh, and they should take you no more than a minute each time (progressively less as you get more comfortable). So you're either exaggerating because the truth would be less noteworthy, or you've got serious learning disabilities.
The camera is not perfect. I wish it was better. I always make a point to criticize it when appropriate. That said, what I've found is that the game is designed almost perfectly around the camera. Once you become comfortable with the controls and discover how best to function within the game design, the shortcomings disappear and the camera unconsciously becomes appropriate.
As for "everyone is entitled to their opinion", why would you say that after exhausting so much energy in trying to make any that opposes yours seem irrelevant? Yeah, those fucking MGS fanboys! Don't you hate people who are biased! A lot of Halo 2 haters are Nintendo fanboys who are disappointed that Prime 2 dropped the ball. A lot of Halo 2 haters are MGS fanboys. But satterfield... does he belong in this painfully retarded mix of generalizations? Appropriately, with his own allocation constituting his slams on MGS3? God no! HE knows what's up! Meanwhile we'll just have to live in the dark, waiting until he gives us the next glimpse of reality...
Who the hell's been blowing smoke up the collective ass of the Xbox fan recently? Holy shit some of you are mind-numbing.
OK, so...
I enjoy the MGS series. I've always liked the type of gameplay that it has. So that's why I was very disappointed with MGS2. The level design was often poor and uninteresting, and the story was awful and disengaging. I thought the gameplay system had a lot of potential (this shined in the VR missions). MGS3, I think, realized this potential ten-fold. It's a wonderful game.
In MGS3, the healing/eating mechanics are not fun. Instead, they served to broaden the experience. Snake, insofar as you are Snake, became more than a character to a greater extent. Those aspects never annoyed me. They just immersed me into the experience even more. Oh, and they should take you no more than a minute each time (progressively less as you get more comfortable). So you're either exaggerating because the truth would be less noteworthy, or you've got serious learning disabilities.
The camera is not perfect. I wish it was better. I always make a point to criticize it when appropriate. That said, what I've found is that the game is designed almost perfectly around the camera. Once you become comfortable with the controls and discover how best to function within the game design, the shortcomings disappear and the camera unconsciously becomes appropriate.
As for "everyone is entitled to their opinion", why would you say that after exhausting so much energy in trying to make any that opposes yours seem irrelevant? Yeah, those fucking MGS fanboys! Don't you hate people who are biased! A lot of Halo 2 haters are Nintendo fanboys who are disappointed that Prime 2 dropped the ball. A lot of Halo 2 haters are MGS fanboys. But satterfield... does he belong in this painfully retarded mix of generalizations? Appropriately, with his own allocation constituting his slams on MGS3? God no! HE knows what's up! Meanwhile we'll just have to live in the dark, waiting until he gives us the next glimpse of reality...
WHOOPS, MY MISTAKERyudo said:
The hint? This being that there is one particular right out there (the xbox being so great) and it's up to each individual to realize this?Ryudo said:
Who the hell's been blowing smoke up the collective ass of the Xbox fan recently? Holy shit some of you are mind-numbing.
satterfield
BIGTIME TV MOGUL
Meier said:
And here's another reason why I do not debate with people on message boards. Because when they start to lose the battle of facts they always lower themselves to personal attacks. Then everyone starts piling on. If you think this is being combative, boy, you don't know me too well.
Pimpbaa -
I think some of your categories are open to debate, and you're also forgetting that some aspects of games should be weighted more heavily, such as value. I agree that Half-Life 2 is an incredible game, and in some ways, the single-player mode is superior to that of Halo 2. But when you look at the entire game and how much enjoyment you get out of each product, I (and a lot of other people) believe Halo 2 gets the nod. And yes, Half-Life 2 also kicks the crap out of MGS3.
My entire point of posting in the first place was to point out why MGS3 isn't getting the recognition some people on this board think it deserves. I'd say mission accomplished.
Pimpbaa
Member
satterfield said:
How is Halo 2 more of a value than Half Life 2? Considering the mods that are out and are coming out, HL2 is a much better value.
And I (and a lot of other people) believe Half Life 2 gets the nod. Half Life 2 feels like a much more complete product and not something quickly thrown together using the previous games engine with a few enhancements.
CrimsonSkies
Member
I don't understand this debate. It's as if the premise is that there is simply no way that Halo 2 is GOTY material. As if that's a position which no sane person could argue. If you suggest in any way that Halo 2 might do some things better than Half Life 2, that is also a position which can't be argued. It's just a stone cold fact. I wouldn't call Satterfield immature. I believe the coin should be flipped on several in this thread.