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Elysian Shadows Kickstarter (Dreamcast, PC, Mac, Ouya, Android, iOS )
- Thread starter Clefargle
- Start date
TheContact
Member
I'd love to play this on my dreamcast. Would they send me a disc or an iso that I have to burn?
7 years in development might as well be 7 years of whitespace on your resume. Hate to bad mouth other devs, but that is probably not a good thing. And their funding items do not seem realistic, as someone has already pointed out regarding costs to cert per platform. Unless this thing is already in the can and nearly there, this thing is not coming out. They should've scoped realistically from the beginning.
Also, small teams (anyone really) still promising tonnes of physical rewards hasn't read a lot of KS postmortems.
Really wish over eager devs could keep things in perspective.
Also, small teams (anyone really) still promising tonnes of physical rewards hasn't read a lot of KS postmortems.
Really wish over eager devs could keep things in perspective.
Ingueferroque
Banned
The stretch goal / costs seem silly to me.
RandyBobandy
Banned
The screens aren't doing it any favors at all
... This is getting worse and worse.
I don't mean to badmouth them because I admire their passion and a lot of what they've already accomplished, or are hoping to, and I know this has already been said, but this looks super gross. At first I saw the GIF and thought the animation was just awful. Then I saw the character sprite more clearly and just hated it. Then I noticed that all the environments also look rather like piss.
I wish these guys the best, but it honestly looks rather undeserving in its current state, and I'd be surprised to see it deliver.
I wish these guys the best, but it honestly looks rather undeserving in its current state, and I'd be surprised to see it deliver.
SomedayTheFire
Member
That looks absolutely awful. The main character sprite is painful.
I don't get why people say this and then continue to do so.
Soultron said:
I'm pretty sure the core team has been working as programmers and IT at R&D labs for years while they were doing this work without pay.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Some of the engine stuff is kind of neat, but the art is awful, the game sounds generic, and being under development for most of a decade without releasing is very bad. A little surprised that so much money has been raised already, but I have noticed that kickstarters that offer Dreamcast games tend to do better than you would have otherwise expected.
EDIT: The poor 2D sprites in a 3D environment reminds me of one of the earliest XBLIG RPGs, Star Cross - http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/Star-Cross/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d80258550448
EDIT: The poor 2D sprites in a 3D environment reminds me of one of the earliest XBLIG RPGs, Star Cross - http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/Star-Cross/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d80258550448
Ingueferroque
Banned
I do not see this as good PR, since your account basically represents Zeboyd games.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
One of the advantages of being an indie developer is that you can speak your mind. And it's not even like this is a particularly controversial opinion - most of the posts in this thread aren't positive.
I've hyped up other kickstarters for indie RPGs in the past when I thought they looked promising. Here's one that's going on right now (Fritz - it's a story-focused RPG about WW1 Trench Warfare).
That's really good. The best thing coming out of this, in my opinion (not that it matters, I'm some guy on the internet), is that they're building things from the ground up with their own tools, from the sound of it.
See? We've gotten to the point where this kickstarter is forcing other people to do things they hate.
protomouse
Member
Dreamcast and OUYA? Will double dip!
LurkerPrime
Member
FYI, the Kickstarter link in the OP is broken. I don't know what that bit before the URL is supposed to be.
Poking around the OP I don't see what battle system it's using - this is of paramount importance to me. From what I can see, it says it's inspired by CT and FF, but it looks like there's only a single character in play - is this going for a Zelda-style combat system with real-time combat? Using an old-fashioned Zelda hack & slash system would be really disappoing for something billing itself as a "next-generation 2D RPG" because that makes it seem more like an action-adventure title to me... and no party members means less of a focus on a story, which is also a highlight of games the "inspired by" games...
Also, part of what makes retro throwbacks great (such as Zeboyd's RPGs) is that they put a lot of effort into updating the gameplay to make it fun and interesting while still holding onto the retro style and design. I would say they are truly inspired by the classics, while still having their own take on things... and I hope that Elysian Shadows is taking this same approach to the gameplay, rather than blatantly ripping off old gameplay design.
Poking around the OP I don't see what battle system it's using - this is of paramount importance to me. From what I can see, it says it's inspired by CT and FF, but it looks like there's only a single character in play - is this going for a Zelda-style combat system with real-time combat? Using an old-fashioned Zelda hack & slash system would be really disappoing for something billing itself as a "next-generation 2D RPG" because that makes it seem more like an action-adventure title to me... and no party members means less of a focus on a story, which is also a highlight of games the "inspired by" games...
Also, part of what makes retro throwbacks great (such as Zeboyd's RPGs) is that they put a lot of effort into updating the gameplay to make it fun and interesting while still holding onto the retro style and design. I would say they are truly inspired by the classics, while still having their own take on things... and I hope that Elysian Shadows is taking this same approach to the gameplay, rather than blatantly ripping off old gameplay design.
Came here to basically say this. And to mention the malformed KS link. I'd rather have access to the engine than this game.
KojiKnight
Member
Say "Elysian" and was expecting a sequel to Dust: An Elysian Tail. Was disappointed... then I started reading and got even more disappointed. I don't like discouraging people, they should keep pushing... but it's not something I could support. It doesn't look good to me.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
Why are they doing the art like that instead of like the many examples from the 32-bit era that showed how to do sprites on a 3d background properly? This just looks fucked up.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
i think what happened was as Falco Girgis (Developer/Lead Programmer) was building out the engine they wanted to do 3d lighting shadows etc, and it kind of lead into quasi 2d/3d look. I liked games like land stalker and dark savior. I followed their youtube series for years. I think the fact they did their own engine, cross platform, and created a toolset for it is great.
Some of the ideas they have (like physics, metal objects can attract, particles can have physics etc) are neat. But the game itself doesn't really do much for me. And back when they started the hobbyist community had stuff like gamemaker/rpgmaker to use for game creation. Now they have stuff like Unity and the gap closed fast.
========================================================
$280,000 Soundtrack & SFX Production Equipment
========================================================
Help our soundtrack creator, Connor Linning, get his hands on the same vintage synthesizers and samplers used by game composers such as Yoko Shimomura, Akira Yamaoka, and Masami Ueda in games like Super Mario RPG, Kingdom Hearts, Parasite Eve, Silent Hill, and Resident Evil, so that we can dig deeper into perfecting the nostalgic and classic side of the music's atmosphere we are striving to create.
=========================================================
This sounds lame on every level be it unnecessary name/game reference, wasteful, counter-imaginative, immature - more cash: "Yeah some synths I want, because JPN devs used them on old games, why not"
With what's huuugely available on a desktop alone now compared to buying 90s synths and samplers and that's the area to spend extra funds on..... Like you're really limited with what you have available? lol-: Hire a better composer if that's genuinely the case.
$280,000 Soundtrack & SFX Production Equipment
========================================================
Help our soundtrack creator, Connor Linning, get his hands on the same vintage synthesizers and samplers used by game composers such as Yoko Shimomura, Akira Yamaoka, and Masami Ueda in games like Super Mario RPG, Kingdom Hearts, Parasite Eve, Silent Hill, and Resident Evil, so that we can dig deeper into perfecting the nostalgic and classic side of the music's atmosphere we are striving to create.
=========================================================
This sounds lame on every level be it unnecessary name/game reference, wasteful, counter-imaginative, immature - more cash: "Yeah some synths I want, because JPN devs used them on old games, why not"
With what's huuugely available on a desktop alone now compared to buying 90s synths and samplers and that's the area to spend extra funds on..... Like you're really limited with what you have available? lol-: Hire a better composer if that's genuinely the case.
Despite my earlier posts in the thread I'm not one to pile on top of a bandwagon in public, so let me offer some constructive criticism on that. While there's always a market and a reason to pursue a certain style or era, above post nails it that it's more about mindset than hardware. "Vintange synths" and "SFX equipment" (???) make about as much sense as saying you need to get Windows 3.1 MSPaint to do pixel art.
I share album credits with two of the three composers named, and I can tell you straight out that no one in their right mind wants to go back to the limitations of an era past. Completely different argument from e.g. using an actual Game Boy to generate your synth tones for chiptune compositions, and even then a Game Boy doesn't cost all that much, nor does circuit bending break the bank.
Akira Yamaoka's work on Silent Hill (especially 2 and 3) does get very ambient, with a lot of sound design elements, but that honestly goes back again to mindset above hardware. Recreating that vibe with the tools available in this day and age is so much simpler and efficient. Not to detract from how groundbreaking those works were for their time, obviously.
I share album credits with two of the three composers named, and I can tell you straight out that no one in their right mind wants to go back to the limitations of an era past. Completely different argument from e.g. using an actual Game Boy to generate your synth tones for chiptune compositions, and even then a Game Boy doesn't cost all that much, nor does circuit bending break the bank.
Akira Yamaoka's work on Silent Hill (especially 2 and 3) does get very ambient, with a lot of sound design elements, but that honestly goes back again to mindset above hardware. Recreating that vibe with the tools available in this day and age is so much simpler and efficient. Not to detract from how groundbreaking those works were for their time, obviously.
So basically, these guys are showing they don't know what they are doing?
cj_iwakura
Member
I consider that the best sign.
I reserve judgement on the music since that's pretty subjective and possibly WIP, but I'd say I have trouble understanding how many of the stretch goals make sense. Not just specifically the 280k tier.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Yeah sorry no thanks.
cool idea, but the art does nothing for me personally.
cool idea, but the art does nothing for me personally.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
Well they made it, good for them.
I wish them luck.
I wish them luck.
GyroVorbis
Neo Member
Lead engine developer here...
I appreciate the two of you who wished us good luck and showed us support... I actually lurked around these boards watching for basically the entirety of the campaign, unable to respond to your questions (well, insults), because my account was not activated.
But it's all good now, we're funded, so there's not really anything to defend here.
I did want to take a second and mention my screw-up on the first batch of screenshots. Many of you rightfully criticized the original 3D perspective screenshots. The OP is a buddy of mine who wanted to help spread the word. I basically sent him a giant folder of random screenshots we had amassed, without realizing quite a few of them were from incomplete, unpolished builds of the engine when we had first introduced that perspective.
From a technical standpoint, the billboarding was off, initially. Characters and sprites were aligned to world-space, instead of camera-space, making them appear distorted based on their positions relative to the camera. I think most of you were too busy attacking us to notice that they were fixed, but they have been. My apologies for that, and I take full responsibility for the first batch's ugliness...
Anyway, keep keepin' it classy, NeoGAF!
I appreciate the two of you who wished us good luck and showed us support... I actually lurked around these boards watching for basically the entirety of the campaign, unable to respond to your questions (well, insults), because my account was not activated.
But it's all good now, we're funded, so there's not really anything to defend here.
I did want to take a second and mention my screw-up on the first batch of screenshots. Many of you rightfully criticized the original 3D perspective screenshots. The OP is a buddy of mine who wanted to help spread the word. I basically sent him a giant folder of random screenshots we had amassed, without realizing quite a few of them were from incomplete, unpolished builds of the engine when we had first introduced that perspective.
From a technical standpoint, the billboarding was off, initially. Characters and sprites were aligned to world-space, instead of camera-space, making them appear distorted based on their positions relative to the camera. I think most of you were too busy attacking us to notice that they were fixed, but they have been. My apologies for that, and I take full responsibility for the first batch's ugliness...
Anyway, keep keepin' it classy, NeoGAF!
Sorry man, we can't keep it classy when the game looked like garbage ¯\_(ツ
_/¯Congrats on the funding btw
GyroVorbis
Neo Member
I totally LOLed. I want to be mad, but it was genuinely funny.Sorry man, we can't keep it classy when the game looked like garbage ¯\_(ツ
Congrats on the funding btw
Thank you for the congrats at least. haha.
Yeah really weird artistic choice. The shadows move the way they do because there's a spotlight positioned just off the bottom of the screen that is tied to the PC's horizontal position for no logical reason. Does not look good at all, why the hell are they even showing it off at this point? It clearly needs more time in the oven to match whatever fuzzy vision is floating around in the art directors head.
GyroVorbis
Neo Member
That was actually just a demo animation to demonstrate the lighting engine... It was positioned like that just to emphasize the pixel perfect shadows.
GyroVorbis
Neo Member
Oh, while I'm interacting with you guys. Don't know if you heard, but we're releasing our multiplatform engine and toolkit to the community for modding Elysian Shadows and even using the tech for your own games.
Here's the press announcement, engine and toolkit footage, and detailed description:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLbdPp2VKQY
Also, don't hate on the bathrobe. I was super sick when this was recorded.
Here's the press announcement, engine and toolkit footage, and detailed description:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLbdPp2VKQY
Also, don't hate on the bathrobe. I was super sick when this was recorded.
you are from the team?
can you please elaborate, how you try to finance WiiU, PS4 and Xbox One ports with $30000? especially with a physical release? and what markets will you sell those versions?
GyroVorbis
Neo Member
Yep, I'm the engine guy.
We actually have a publisher, Watermelon Corp, who is producing our physical copies for the Dreamcast (professionally pressed discs, color instruction manuals, it will look like a legit DC game from 1999). They are the folks behind Pier Solar HD, also targeting all of these platforms and consoles. They have been kind enough to offer to publish us on these consoles, so we will not have to pay for licensing fees or development kits, as we would be going through them.
From an engineering perspective, targeting these consoles will more or less be a joke to us. I developed the entire engine from the ground up being completely cross-platform, and have written an API that allows us to very easily port ES to any platform we please... Especially after targeting a console with the limited specs of the Dreamcast, the newer ones will pose no challenge.
I'll give you an example of how this works. We recruited a mobile developer, Eddie, for the OUYA and Android builds. He never touched a line of code from our engine (he didn't even have access to it), but he reimplemented the API for our mulitplatform framework (I called it libGyro) for the Droid devices, and boom, suddenly we had the game running on Android and OUYA without anybody having to stop developing the game itself or having to write a single line of platform-specific code.
This framework will also be released open-source, so using it for your games will automatically allow you to run on all of these platforms, and you can reimplement the library yourself to allow all the games using this framework to run on something like the Wii U...
edit: We never said anything about a physical release for these platforms.
GyroVorbis
Neo Member
Oops. Already answered!
Thanks, buddy!
Thanks, buddy!
thanks for the explanation. It makes much more sense with a publisher behind the devs. I assume they'll also pay for the age ratings? depending on which regions you'll publish, it can get pretty costy, although digital is almost everywhere cheaper than physical releases
GyroVorbis
Neo Member
Yep, that's correct. Also, if we don't have sufficient funds, we may have to stagger the releases for different regions... although certain people on the inside tell me that if you ask them very nicely they are sometimes willing to cut you a deal. Haha.
Fair enough, that makes sense. I still question your choice to show that off publicly in such a state but then again I've never tried kickstarting a game project, so what's my opinion really worth?
Well, best of luck with your project. I hope you can release a final product that will make all us naysayers eat crow.