Enterprise 10/15

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BigJonsson

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THE TEMPORAL COLD WAR IS OVER!!!!!

I liked the episode, it was cool seeing German planes vs the Enterprise :p

And the part at the end where you could see history unfold in the background, and it looks like Starfleet has more ships

THIS SERIES CAN ACTUALLY GO IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION NOW!

Huzzah!
 
BigJonsson said:
THE TEMPORAL COLD WAR IS OVER!!!!!

I liked the episode, it was cool seeing German planes vs the Enterprise :p

And the part at the end where you could see history unfold in the background, and it looks like Starfleet has more ships

THIS SERIES CAN ACTUALLY GO IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION NOW!

Huzzah!
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Yeah, it seems that there has been a lot of resetting in the timeline at this point. Lord knows what has really happened now.
 
"And the part at the end where you could see history unfold in the background, and it looks like Starfleet has more ships"



Uhh...no those were the ships from the season finale of last year. They helped defend Earth from the Xendi weapon. They are not Starfleet ships. Also was i the only one who thought they ripped off Voyagers series ending with the ships showing up to escort Enterprise back to Earth.
 
So did Starfleet ships suddenly lose the ability to operate within atmospheres for a huge gap between this first Enterprise and Voyager? TOS' special effects limitations aside, the ships in other series seemed to avoid getting too close to atmospheres like the plague.
 
BigJonsson said:
They never had a reason to land :p
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Well, the first time they did, they showed that even with the high technology in the TNG's Enterprise, the saucer section, if entering an atmosphere, was on a one way trip for the sole purpose of being a big escape pod.[/nerd]
 
Note that the later Starfleet ships are much larger than the NX-01 when you get up to heavy cruiser / deep explorer classes. Big ships designed for deep space and taking more direct advantage of never having to enter a planet's atmosphere or gravity.

A small ship like Voyager was given the ability to land on a planet because it was small enough already to manuver easily in atmosphere on anti-gravity with thrusters. The NX-01 is a small ship as well, and though not designed to normally land, probably has the advantages of a Voyager style vessel.

If I recall, the saucer of a Galaxy class ship was designed mainly for water landings to support the weight of the superstructure. In Generations, the Enterprise D's saucer seemed to have the bad luck to enter the planet on a crappy vector. Or the writers just wanted a cool skid and crash sequence.
 
I'm about 1/3 through season 4 of Deep Space Nine(haven't seen the rest of it yet...only got DVDs 1-5 so far...4 and 5 today) and I have to say that this is the greatest show ever created.

Hysterically funny, great story arc, AMAZING character growth for the ENTIRE CAST...the last 3 and 2/3 seasons could be crap(but I've heard they're the best) and I'd still think this show is the greatest ever created. Very powerful...while I never found the Crusher and Troi episodes to be good on TNG...thus dragging down an otherwhise great show(TNG)...DS9 has the most well developed cast ever...they all have their own intriguing stories. I have not seen one bad episode yet.

I want a DS9 movie man. DS9! DS9! DS9! DS9! DS9! DS9! DS9! DS9! DS9! DS9! DS9!

Too bad I know a big spoiler later on in the series...that probably would have hit me hard(and still probably will)...I've already been crying on some of these episodes...they're that well produced and acted. If people are watching this crap Enterprise (watched the first half of season 1) and haven't seen DS9...buy the DVDs soon(Think all 7 seasons are being sold in bulk on amazon.com for like $630 come Oct. 25). This show can not be missed.

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine is simply the greatest show ever.
 
I agree. My picks for the top 3 episodes of DS9 ever:

1. Duet. (season 1) Who knew a show with 2 people talking for an hour could be infinitely more entertaining than Enterprise's 5 millionth shootout this week?

2. The Visitor (season 4) Again, a character driven show, something Enterprise cannot do, since its characters are not interesting.

3. In the Pale Moonlight (season 6) A political episode that ties into the war storyline, primarily involving Sisco and Garak.


That's my problem with Enterprise. The writing isn't nearly as good as DS9, but even if the writing gets better this season, it won't matter, because they have failed to develop these people as compelling characters. The only ones that are decent are Phlox and Reed. Archer is a worse captain than Janeway, and believe me, I was no big fan of that bitch. Poor Chakotay.
 
My top 4 DS9 episodes so far would probably have to be:

1. Past Tense Part 1 & 2 (Season 3)

Absolutely brilliant. Bashir and Sisko are just top notch in these 2 episodes.

2. Rejoined (Season 4)

I always hated Dr. Crusher for turning her feelings on that trill in TNG's Season 4 episode "The Host". This episode rectifies Crusher's type of 20th century thinking. I love the emotions in the episode. Powerful stuff.

3. Melora (Season 2)

Another romance episode. Like Rejoined...I love the choices that need to be made.

4. Duet (Season 1)

Really good episode, as already stated.
 
another thing ds9 did was show that starfleet and the federation were not perfect and had its own secrets with the introduction of section 31.
 
DarthWoo said:
So did Starfleet ships suddenly lose the ability to operate within atmospheres for a huge gap between this first Enterprise and Voyager? TOS' special effects limitations aside, the ships in other series seemed to avoid getting too close to atmospheres like the plague.
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Uh there's an episode of TOS where the Enterprise is within the atmosphere when it somehow got sent back in time. A plane even flies up to it before getting destroyed and they have to beam the guy aboard.
 
Starfleet ships can enter the atmosphere, I don't think that's ever been in question. Most of the larger ships like the Galaxy/Enterprise (Constitution) class have absolutely no way to land so there is no point.
 
Enterprises problem is it still doesn't have a GREAT episode to stand amongst the classics the way all the other Treks do. Even Voyager amongst the dross had the amazing Scorpions and Year of Hell.
 
Kaijima said:
If I recall, the saucer of a Galaxy class ship was designed mainly for water landings to support the weight of the superstructure. In Generations, the Enterprise D's saucer seemed to have the bad luck to enter the planet on a crappy vector. Or the writers just wanted a cool skid and crash sequence.
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Actually the only reason the Enterprise D's saucer entered the atmosphere at all was because it didn't get clear from the core breach explosion in time, and the explosion damaged the saucer's impulse drive. It was a barely controlled landing, thrusters only.
 
COCKLES said:
Enterprises problem is it still doesn't have a GREAT episode to stand amongst the classics the way all the other Treks do. Even Voyager amongst the dross had the amazing Scorpions and Year of Hell.
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Absolutely untrue. Twilight episode #308 was an incredible episode.
 
The episode of Enterprise that made me laugh was the one where Hoshi had to go stay with the telepathic guy that would help them find the Xindi if she stayed with him for a while. Archer told Hoshi to be on her guard because he didn't fully trust him, and then she spent the rest of the episode walking around the telepath's house in a nightgown. :D
 
Phoenix said:
Absolutely untrue. Twilight episode #308 was an incredible episode.
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It is absolutely true that there is no exceptional episodes of Enterprise in many people's minds. Twilight was good, but hardly exceptional. It was derivative of other Trek episodes, and I rolled my eyes when I saw the reset button solution to the episode halfway through. Again, it is hard to care about these characters, so if you do, this episode may have been stronger in your mind. I agree that it was one of the better Enterprise ones.

My vote for best episode? Minefield, season 2. Archer must diffuse a bomb on the hull that has trapped Reed. This episode is the reason why I like Reed.

Worst episode is a dead heat between Precious Cargo, where Trip fights with a princess until they start making out, and A Night In Sickbay, where Archer is mad because his dog got sick after he took him on an away mission, and he is grumpy because he wants to hump T'Pol.
 
maharg said:
On the other hand, Voyager has the single greatest abomination of Star Trek history imo. Tuvix.
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No my friend. The single greatest abomination in Star Trek history is Voyager's Threshold where Paris starts evolving after breaking the Warp 10 barrier, then kidnaps Janeway in a shuttlepod and goes to a planet, where the crew find Paris and Janeway looking like Iguanas and surrounded by little iguana babies. 15 seconds later they are in sickbay, good as ever through the MAGIC OF DNA tm.
 
Mega Man's Electric Sheep said:
No my friend. The single greatest abomination in Star Trek history is Voyager's Threshold where Paris starts evolving after breaking the Warp 10 barrier, then kidnaps Janeway in a shuttlepod and goes to a planet, where the crew find Paris and Janeway looking like Iguanas and surrounded by little iguana babies. 15 seconds later they are in sickbay, good as ever through the MAGIC OF DNA tm.
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Granted. Somewhat embarrasing....

But not as embarrasing as seeing Archer get bitchslapped left, right and centre by the Andorians in the first season of Enterprise...good god I was screaming at the TV for the man to grow himself a pair of non-PC bulls and start kicking some arse.
 
This topic took quite a few turns it seems. I agree though, DS9 rocks. I love that show, and if Paramound wasnt such a buncg of greedy fuck, I would be able to buy the DVD's for a RESONABLE price, as is I only have season 2.

As for Enterprise, I thought this episode was really good. Too bad Archer never shot Hitler, but still a good episode. Though I am uncertian about one thing
Sillick really dead? becuase Deniels came back

Anyway though, there's no saying they cant START working on cherecter development now, better late than never. Though I wouldent expect DS9 quality cherecter development.

Looking forward to seeing Brent Spiner and Shatner in upcoming episodes. And hopefully the birth of the Federation, and isnt the Federation Romulan war susposed to start around this time?

~Black Deatha
 
There's supposed to be the Romulan War starting in 2156. Enterprise starts at around 2151 I believe. It's supposed to be one of humanity's most destructive conflicts until the Borg and Dominion show up. Might make for some nice fleet battles if they decide to get into it.
 
Mega Man's Electric Sheep said:
No my friend. The single greatest abomination in Star Trek history is Voyager's Threshold where Paris starts evolving after breaking the Warp 10 barrier, then kidnaps Janeway in a shuttlepod and goes to a planet, where the crew find Paris and Janeway looking like Iguanas and surrounded by little iguana babies. 15 seconds later they are in sickbay, good as ever through the MAGIC OF DNA tm.
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Well that's just general retardation. Tuvix goes beyond retardation into setting up a scenario that really can't be resolved in a Star Trekish manner. It then resolves it with a solution that is about as far from Star Trek morality as you can get.

They murdered one person to save two dead people. I'm not saying Tuvix should have become a regular character, but that this is an episode that I don't think should have been written to begin with. Janeway and especially Kes act completely out of character.
 
See, I liked Tuvix, because the captain made a decision, and it was WRONG, and the episode seemed to be on Tuvix's side and we were supposed to think she was wrong. Kes and Janeway were acting out of their emotional need to have their loved ones back without accepting the larger moral picture that what they were doing was WRONG. It shows how unethical people can act and how they can rationalize bad behaviour just to make themselves happy. Episodes like this are necessary, as infuriating as the characters' behaviour is, because otherwise humanity would be the perfect, no mistake, no flaw Roddenberryville Stepford crew.
 
Bleh, DS9 love. Such an overhyped series. It had its moments, but man did it have its extremely boring times as well. I had to force myself to sit through so many episodes in hope that there would be some sort of piece to the overall picture to at least make it interesting.
 
Tuvix was one of the few examples of a genuine complex situation with no black or white resolution and I really liked it because of that. One of the few examples of real storytelling in Voyager.

And yeah, I'll also agree that "Threshhold" was by far one of the worst, if not the worst episodes in the Star Trek universe. Why would hitting warp 10 cause people to evolve at a faster rate? Wasn't it already established that people could hit Warp 10+ in the Next Generation without any adverse effects? Why the fuck would we evolve into a salamander without any real environmental pushes in that direction on a starship.

It made absolutely no sense at all and the resolution was just as stupid as the rest of it.
 
It's not so much that it was a difficult situation that bothers me, it's that there seemed to be so damn little actual caring about the absolutely wrong thing they were doing. We saw next to no internal conflict in the characters that mattered, and NO opposition from the rest of the crew as to what they were doing (aside from the doctor, who was a foregone conclusion). Not even Paris, the usual black sheep, spoke out about it.

And then it ends. And next episode it's all forgotten. Voyager just didn't have the depth to handle the issue, and it was treated far too lightly. Maybe if I felt they came out of it with any sense of the gravity of the decision they made, I would feel better about it.
 
"And then it ends. And next episode it's all forgotten."

Now there's a point we can agree on. I HATED the way Voyager could be half blown up, and the next episode it was fine, or a character could go through a life-altering event, and yet noone ever mentions it again. Enterprise is much better at continuity (for example, last night the ship was still battered from the season finale 2 episodes ago, and next episode
Archer will have to face up to his unethical behaviour last season in front of Admiral Forrest and a council
), but DS9 was still the master, mentioning events and character details from seasons ago.
 
Their silence was perfect. It showed the internal conflict in everyone. The logistical wrong of destroying Tuvix but the emotional want of seeing their crew mates back. Tuvix was created but in a sense, Tuvok and Nelix were destroyed. It wasn't so right/wrong or black and white that people like Paris would make a clear cut choice and raise a stink about bringing them back at the expense of Tuvix.

It was a great episode all-around.

As far as the rest of the series ignoring it, well they ignored quite a few things. It frustrated me that they had a fantastic internal conflict between Marquis and Federation officers and aside from a few episodes here and there, that conflict was basically ignored. Brain dead management of that series IMO.
 
Voygers's big achilles heel was that they designed it around stand-alone TOS style episodes rather then story arcs. By then audiences had become more sophisticated with the likes of DS9 and Babylon 5 in their storytelling demands. How many times did we see Voyager blown to bits only to be shiny new in the next episide...laughable. Series had a great premise, shame Bragga and Berman fucked it up so badly. Ron Moore jumping ship didn't help either...

But as I said before, the best of Voyager effortlessly slaps down the best Enterprise can offer. Now the novelty has worn off, I've no qualm in calling Enterprise the worst Trek series ever.
 
In the show its because the engines generate a warp feild so they either have to be out there so it can encompass the ship or because the feild is harmful in some way.

Realisticly, it probably just looked good.
 
Teh Hamburglar said:
In the show its because the engines generate a warp feild so they either have to be out there so it can encompass the ship or because the feild is harmful in some way.

Realisticly, it probably just looked good.
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If it's a ST Physics thing, why is only federation ships that are like that? The other races don't build their ships that way and they're warp capable.
 
They dropped the ball with the Enterprise design as well. The ship to use should have been the one in the opening credits...the more angular one before the final Enterprise is shown - the present one still looks too sophisticated for the era.
 
The most laughable thing on Voyager was the "shuttle crash" tm. How many frigging episodes started with a shuttle crashing and a crew member(s) being stranded somewhere. The shuttles were almost never recovered, and yet they just kept crashing them. They seemed to have an unlimited supply. Not bad for a ship 70,000 light years from home with no steady source of resources.

And yet, with all my complaints and ridicules, Voyager is MUCH better than Enterprise, because it had more ambition. The worst episodes of Enterprise are just mediocre and blah, whereas the worst Voyagers were astoundingly retarded because at least they tried different things. When Voyager succeeded, it was great, and when it failed, it failed spectacularly and your jaw dropped. Enterprise is too safe and rarely tries anything truly interesting. If I see one more scene of people having a phaserfight while ducking behind walls and leaning out to shoot periodically, I'll scream.
 
COCKLES said:
They dropped the ball with the Enterprise design as well. The ship to use should have been the one in the opening credits...the more angular one before the final Enterprise is shown - the present one still looks too sophisticated for the era.
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Well, not to mention the NX-01 design is nearly an exact copy of the Akiras from the TNG-DS9 era.

enterprise_akira_comp.jpg
 
Teh Hamburglar said:
In the show its because the engines generate a warp feild so they either have to be out there so it can encompass the ship or because the feild is harmful in some way.

Realisticly, it probably just looked good.
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Its actually because of the stuff that is emitted from the process. I believe they dealt with that in one of the enterprise episodes where they were stuck up there. The nacelles are away from the ship and heavily shielded to prevent the crew from being killed in the process. Most Romulan designs also have nacelles apart from the primary structure. Klingons, well - are Klingons :) Outside of the D7 and D10 designs, Klingons don't spend a whole lot of time protecting their crews in their smaller ships.
 
Mega Man's Electric Sheep said:
And yet, with all my complaints and ridicules, Voyager is MUCH better than Enterprise, because it had more ambition. The worst episodes of Enterprise are just mediocre and blah, whereas the worst Voyagers were astoundingly retarded because at least they tried different things. When Voyager succeeded, it was great, and when it failed, it failed spectacularly and your jaw dropped. Enterprise is too safe and rarely tries anything truly interesting. If I see one more scene of people having a phaserfight while ducking behind walls and leaning out to shoot periodically, I'll scream.
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You'll have to show that one with examples... I have seen a few times when they've tried to do something new or different, but the biggest problem has been this temporal cold war foolishness which has really stunted the growth of the show. Since the first episode, we've been on the worst story arc in known trek history.
 
UltimateMarioMan said:
I always wonder why anyone thinks its a good idea to put the engines in Trek ships out on tiny struts which make wonderful targets.
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Because the warp drive radiates energy that is hazardous to people. That's why they are on struts away from the ship.



The Shadow said:
If it's a ST Physics thing, why is only federation ships that are like that? The other races don't build their ships that way and they're warp capable.
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Maybe other races are not affected the same as humans are, or perhaps other races have come up with technology to mitigate the radiation.
 
I think the episode of Voyager I find most annoying is the one where they use technology created by 7 of 9's parents to infiltrate the Borg. That episode, imo, REALLY threw continuity out the window.

Enterprise however seems to be getting better. Don't much care for the reset button, but hopefully it'll get better. Plus, I suppose it had to be done for continuity. Then again, this is the same continuity that allowed the Borg and Ferengi to surface.
 
ManDudeChild said:
I think the episode of Voyager I find most annoying is the one where they use technology created by 7 of 9's parents to infiltrate the Borg. That episode, imo, REALLY threw continuity out the window.

Enterprise however seems to be getting better. Don't much care for the reset button, but hopefully it'll get better. Plus, I suppose it had to be done for continuity. Then again, this is the same continuity that allowed the Borg and Ferengi to surface.
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The whole series of Enterprise is basically a sequel to Star Trek: First Contact. That's why there were Borg.
 
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