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Enterprise - 11-19-2004
- Thread starter Tenguman
- Start date
- Status
BigJonsson
Member
Good episode, they are on a roll this season
Gotta love the similarities to Muhammad's pilgrimmage in the Hijraz and a certain religion being misinterpreted now haha
And that Vulcan dude so copied Obi Wan from A New Hope
Gotta love the similarities to Muhammad's pilgrimmage in the Hijraz and a certain religion being misinterpreted now haha
And that Vulcan dude so copied Obi Wan from A New Hope
This episode kicked ass. tons of spoilers follow and while this may be a "review" thread I do want to respect anyone wishes who hasn't seen it yet.
Manny Coto fucking owns... so much better than the trash they'd have previously.
They had the balls to kill off a returning regular and (a very high ranking one at that) among 42 others.
Saval performs a mind meld on a comatose human...
A conspiracy at the highest levels of Vulcan government
The forced mind meld with Archer to pass along knowledge.
I mean what's not to like about that episode. It was brilliant. Great ending too.
Also the throwbacks to previous Trek series/movies (the needs of the many comment).
Saval performs a mind meld on a comatose human...
A conspiracy at the highest levels of Vulcan government
The forced mind meld with Archer to pass along knowledge.
I mean what's not to like about that episode. It was brilliant. Great ending too.
Also the throwbacks to previous Trek series/movies (the needs of the many comment).
Manny Coto fucking owns... so much better than the trash they'd have previously.
BigJonsson
Member
-jinx- said:
Yes
But she had to go through with an arranged marriage on Vulcan but came to an agreement with her husband that they wouldn't live together so she could stay in Starfleet
Marty Chinn
Member
I think what I like best about this episode is that it clearly defines the Vulcans in the series. These are not the Vulcans we will come to know in the future. I like how they try to put of the extremist faction as the bad people when in reality they are the future of Vulcan society.
Jade Knight 08
Member
Superb episode and a great ending.
Forgive me for asking
lol) : Could someone elaborate how vulcans "do the wild thing"? Are they simliar to humans? Cuz i haven't noticed it?
Forgive me for asking
lol) : Could someone elaborate how vulcans "do the wild thing"? Are they simliar to humans? Cuz i haven't noticed it?
Marty Chinn
Member
Jade Knight 08 said:Superb episode and a great ending.
Forgive me for asking
They have to be because Amanda was human and gave birth to Spock.
Good Episode. At last we're getting what we wanted.
A show that looks at creation of the Star Trek world we know today instead of this silly time travel Futureguy bollocks.
New Writers.
New Producer.
AND IT WORKS! SURPRISE. FUCKING SURPRISE! Why did it take Paramount so long to listen...I still think it will be too little too late tho.
Good interview here with Jolene where she lays the bitch slap down on Berman & Co:-
http://www.greatlink.org/dcisV2.asp?url=http://www.greatlink.org/showtglinterview135.htm
Lets be honest, all of that Vulcan Neuropressure in Season 3 was just cheap titillation: "I agree. It was. You can't substitute tits and ass for good storytelling. You can have both, but you can't substitute one for the other, because the audience is not stupid. You can't just throw in frivolous, uncharacteristic......well, bull and think it's gonna help the ratings. Because that's not our audience. I'd like to appeal to their intellect. I mean, God forbid we inspire the question 'What if?' 'What if we travelled in space?' 'What if we met other species?' 'What if?' So it has been frustrating for me. But I dont have any say in it."
Jolene takes her job very seriously: "I look for in my character what I look for in real life. What can I count on? In life we put our trust and faith in those people in our lives who are consistent. If you cant find consistency in your character, then its a transparent character, and that's very tough, because it turns out you are a different person from episode to episode. And it's not fair, because I don't know what to count on!"
Does she express her concerns to the producers? "Absolutely! Well... I did at first. Now Ive got to the point where I raise my hands. I wave my little white flag! [laughs] ...But what's interesting is that I opened the [script for Storm Front, Part 1] and it was good! And then I got the [script for Storm Front, Part 2] - and it was good too!"
New showrunner Manny Coto (writer of 'Storm Front') has some creative freedom in Season 4: "They've obviously given him some liberty, because he comes up with concepts like... Adolf Hitler in Times Square. Now that's huge! Now we're talking What If's!"
Mannys approach to writing TPol is different: "Put it this way... I had a line [in Storm Front, Part 1] : 'I also wanted to go home'. That is the first time in three years T'Pol has even mentioned home! Then, ['Home'] ended up being TPol going to Vulcan, and it involves her mother, who is played by Joanna Cassidy from Six Feet Under, who is amazing. That's another thing: we've been casting really good guest actors, and we don't have to rely on people like Jeffery Coombs over and over. It's bizarre that all of this is happening in our last season. Unfortunately, it takes people upstairs to turn their heads to a distraction in order for others to come in and freshen the concept and make the show good."
"...I mean, you're talking about a show where the Captain doesn't sweat! T'Pol's hair doesn't move - even in battle! And if it does, we re-shoot it. We don't bleed here, and nobody dies. Give me a break! And we're all-knowing. Where's the risk? Where the danger? Where's the drama? Where's the challenge? Wheres the story? Give me a break, I'm bored!"
Arent the humans on Enterprise supposed to be more like you and me, instead of the evolved humans seen in TNG? "Hell, yeah! Our arguments are, 'Ooh, a line said in a flash of anger'. 'Oh I'm sorry, I didn't mean that. We're brothers, right?' It's not reality, the way people operate, people only grow and bond and learn through difficult situations. If life were such a bed of roses, why would we ever grow? We'd never have to look inside, because 'life is great!'... and then again, I'm bored! [laughs]"
Enterprise, Season 4 The Return of the Prequel: "...this time we actually have some character development, and that development is true to Star Trek history, which is another thing that's bothered me: how can they change what has historically happened? You may be a prequel but you can't change what has already been determined!"
"You can't take T'Pol and say 'Okay, you're a Vulcan' and take away the Vulcan characteristics. You might as well clip the ears! For example: eating food with their hands - they don't do that! And yet they'll throw in episodes where she's eating popcorn, and I'll say, 'Can I use a napkin? How can I...'" [Jolene imitates the voice of 'The Man'] "...'No! Use your hands!'"
Not very logical, is it? "It's not, but that's not what they care about. They care about... [sighs] ...I don't know what they care about. But y'know... I'm resigned."
Jolene really cares about this stuff: "Well, it's kind of important, y'know! [laughs] ...Because being a part of the Star Trek legacy is very important to me. It deserves a bit of respect. You can't just crap on it! It means something."
Jolene has been very impressed with show runner Manny Coto: "Manny wrote some of our best episodes last year, but I wasn't sold on him, obviously because he wasn't given the freedom to put forward a vision. That's the difference now. He has a very specific vision. He's passionate, talented, and a good writer. And he's coming up with some good concepts ...[for example, in 'Storm Front'] ...You're walking through a war-torn city in the USA, and you have a background member shooting another man dead just to set the mood! And you're talking about a show where people don't die!"
Theres a rationale behind her thirst for blood on Enterprise: "I don't think that humanity is ever going to evolve that much. We will develop technology, we will amaze ourselves with what we can accomplish. But human nature has a terminal instinctual drift that under pressure always reverts to a primal instinct, and that will never change."
"But in the midst of all the chaos, there's hope. I believe that natural disasters and wars and things like that are an accumulated imbalance of the human consciousness, globally. Everything and everyone is totally interconnected even you and I. If you look down into our DNA... our bones are made with the dust of the earth; 98% of our blood is ocean water. We're intricately woven together, and my thought process affects your thought process. We are so powerful as beings, and people believe that they are limited to this shell. It's not true, and it's a debilitating perspective. Stephen Hawking said that if we do not get off this planet we will self-destruct, and it's true. That's why we need a new President over here. I fear the next four years..."
Whoa! Back on topic! Jolene is excited by the creative changes for Season 4 but, should they have made those changes sooner? "Oh, but everybody knew that."
Did they? "Oh, of course. It's all over the internet! They know. They knew."
So why has those changes only happened now? "Because it's the same in any industry. I'm sure it's the same in your offices. You have this head guy who's some kind of ancient old croaker with no concept of the real world outside, with his fine wine and his, er, crumpets. And what are ya gonna tell them? 'Give it up'? 'Go home, be with your wife, go play golf? No then ya got no job! A powerful job is your identity. Give that up, and who are you? What the hell are you gonna do with all that time? You can't tell people what to do anymore!"
"It's the same in every industry. That's why I give kudos to those who are not afraid to usher in the next generation. Because the next generation has a vision, they have passion, and they have the ability to inspire and motivate those below them, instead of dampening their spirits and telling them that they don't know anything. It's the way the world works, and it's frustrating, y'know? But the successful frustrated: they use it to fuel their fire."
Season 4 : The Final Chapter for Enterprise? "I think this will be our last season. I do. You can feel it. And after this show is over it's gonna be the first time in 17 years that Star Trek isn't on television. I don't know how people feel about that, but I know I'm affected by that thought. But I'd rather let it go than let it die a slow death. It deserves the respect it's due, and if we can't do that... then let it go." SFX
A show that looks at creation of the Star Trek world we know today instead of this silly time travel Futureguy bollocks.
New Writers.
New Producer.
AND IT WORKS! SURPRISE. FUCKING SURPRISE! Why did it take Paramount so long to listen...I still think it will be too little too late tho.
Good interview here with Jolene where she lays the bitch slap down on Berman & Co:-
http://www.greatlink.org/dcisV2.asp?url=http://www.greatlink.org/showtglinterview135.htm
Lets be honest, all of that Vulcan Neuropressure in Season 3 was just cheap titillation: "I agree. It was. You can't substitute tits and ass for good storytelling. You can have both, but you can't substitute one for the other, because the audience is not stupid. You can't just throw in frivolous, uncharacteristic......well, bull and think it's gonna help the ratings. Because that's not our audience. I'd like to appeal to their intellect. I mean, God forbid we inspire the question 'What if?' 'What if we travelled in space?' 'What if we met other species?' 'What if?' So it has been frustrating for me. But I dont have any say in it."
Jolene takes her job very seriously: "I look for in my character what I look for in real life. What can I count on? In life we put our trust and faith in those people in our lives who are consistent. If you cant find consistency in your character, then its a transparent character, and that's very tough, because it turns out you are a different person from episode to episode. And it's not fair, because I don't know what to count on!"
Does she express her concerns to the producers? "Absolutely! Well... I did at first. Now Ive got to the point where I raise my hands. I wave my little white flag! [laughs] ...But what's interesting is that I opened the [script for Storm Front, Part 1] and it was good! And then I got the [script for Storm Front, Part 2] - and it was good too!"
New showrunner Manny Coto (writer of 'Storm Front') has some creative freedom in Season 4: "They've obviously given him some liberty, because he comes up with concepts like... Adolf Hitler in Times Square. Now that's huge! Now we're talking What If's!"
Mannys approach to writing TPol is different: "Put it this way... I had a line [in Storm Front, Part 1] : 'I also wanted to go home'. That is the first time in three years T'Pol has even mentioned home! Then, ['Home'] ended up being TPol going to Vulcan, and it involves her mother, who is played by Joanna Cassidy from Six Feet Under, who is amazing. That's another thing: we've been casting really good guest actors, and we don't have to rely on people like Jeffery Coombs over and over. It's bizarre that all of this is happening in our last season. Unfortunately, it takes people upstairs to turn their heads to a distraction in order for others to come in and freshen the concept and make the show good."
"...I mean, you're talking about a show where the Captain doesn't sweat! T'Pol's hair doesn't move - even in battle! And if it does, we re-shoot it. We don't bleed here, and nobody dies. Give me a break! And we're all-knowing. Where's the risk? Where the danger? Where's the drama? Where's the challenge? Wheres the story? Give me a break, I'm bored!"
Arent the humans on Enterprise supposed to be more like you and me, instead of the evolved humans seen in TNG? "Hell, yeah! Our arguments are, 'Ooh, a line said in a flash of anger'. 'Oh I'm sorry, I didn't mean that. We're brothers, right?' It's not reality, the way people operate, people only grow and bond and learn through difficult situations. If life were such a bed of roses, why would we ever grow? We'd never have to look inside, because 'life is great!'... and then again, I'm bored! [laughs]"
Enterprise, Season 4 The Return of the Prequel: "...this time we actually have some character development, and that development is true to Star Trek history, which is another thing that's bothered me: how can they change what has historically happened? You may be a prequel but you can't change what has already been determined!"
"You can't take T'Pol and say 'Okay, you're a Vulcan' and take away the Vulcan characteristics. You might as well clip the ears! For example: eating food with their hands - they don't do that! And yet they'll throw in episodes where she's eating popcorn, and I'll say, 'Can I use a napkin? How can I...'" [Jolene imitates the voice of 'The Man'] "...'No! Use your hands!'"
Not very logical, is it? "It's not, but that's not what they care about. They care about... [sighs] ...I don't know what they care about. But y'know... I'm resigned."
Jolene really cares about this stuff: "Well, it's kind of important, y'know! [laughs] ...Because being a part of the Star Trek legacy is very important to me. It deserves a bit of respect. You can't just crap on it! It means something."
Jolene has been very impressed with show runner Manny Coto: "Manny wrote some of our best episodes last year, but I wasn't sold on him, obviously because he wasn't given the freedom to put forward a vision. That's the difference now. He has a very specific vision. He's passionate, talented, and a good writer. And he's coming up with some good concepts ...[for example, in 'Storm Front'] ...You're walking through a war-torn city in the USA, and you have a background member shooting another man dead just to set the mood! And you're talking about a show where people don't die!"
Theres a rationale behind her thirst for blood on Enterprise: "I don't think that humanity is ever going to evolve that much. We will develop technology, we will amaze ourselves with what we can accomplish. But human nature has a terminal instinctual drift that under pressure always reverts to a primal instinct, and that will never change."
"But in the midst of all the chaos, there's hope. I believe that natural disasters and wars and things like that are an accumulated imbalance of the human consciousness, globally. Everything and everyone is totally interconnected even you and I. If you look down into our DNA... our bones are made with the dust of the earth; 98% of our blood is ocean water. We're intricately woven together, and my thought process affects your thought process. We are so powerful as beings, and people believe that they are limited to this shell. It's not true, and it's a debilitating perspective. Stephen Hawking said that if we do not get off this planet we will self-destruct, and it's true. That's why we need a new President over here. I fear the next four years..."
Whoa! Back on topic! Jolene is excited by the creative changes for Season 4 but, should they have made those changes sooner? "Oh, but everybody knew that."
Did they? "Oh, of course. It's all over the internet! They know. They knew."
So why has those changes only happened now? "Because it's the same in any industry. I'm sure it's the same in your offices. You have this head guy who's some kind of ancient old croaker with no concept of the real world outside, with his fine wine and his, er, crumpets. And what are ya gonna tell them? 'Give it up'? 'Go home, be with your wife, go play golf? No then ya got no job! A powerful job is your identity. Give that up, and who are you? What the hell are you gonna do with all that time? You can't tell people what to do anymore!"
"It's the same in every industry. That's why I give kudos to those who are not afraid to usher in the next generation. Because the next generation has a vision, they have passion, and they have the ability to inspire and motivate those below them, instead of dampening their spirits and telling them that they don't know anything. It's the way the world works, and it's frustrating, y'know? But the successful frustrated: they use it to fuel their fire."
Season 4 : The Final Chapter for Enterprise? "I think this will be our last season. I do. You can feel it. And after this show is over it's gonna be the first time in 17 years that Star Trek isn't on television. I don't know how people feel about that, but I know I'm affected by that thought. But I'd rather let it go than let it die a slow death. It deserves the respect it's due, and if we can't do that... then let it go." SFX
Escape Goat
Member
Shes a smart woman
Phoenix said:
Well from what I've heard it was canceled last year. The only reason it;s still around is because they need shows for syndication. That's why cut the number of shows this year by 2 or 3 because that is all they need to syndicate. I'm not sure how set in stone tthe cancelation is. I would think that if the show picked up enough viewers they could keep it around.
ManDudeChild
Member
ShadowRed said:
Harry had more than two shows to himself. Plus he was the Voyager "kenny". Died like 3 times.
Mega Man's Electric Sheep
Member
Harry Kim Voyager episodes:
1. Emanations - season 1
2. Non Sequitur - season 2
3. The Chute - season 3
4. Favourite Son - season 3
5. Timeless - season 5
6. The Disease - season 5
7. Nightinggale - season 7
Hoshi Sato Enterprise episodes:
1. Fight or Flight - season 1
2. Vox Sola - season 1
3. Vanishing Point - season 2
4. Exile - season 3
5. Countdown - season 3 (not her episode, but she was prominent in it)
Mayweather Enterprise Episodes
1. Detained - season 1
2. Horizon - season 2
Harry was used a medium amount in episodes not about him, unlike Hoshi and Mayweather. But Hoshi is not in the same category as Mayweather, the most underused, useless "main character" ever. The problem Hoshi shares with Mayweather is that she is not used much in the episodes that are not about her. Voyager had some sucky characters, but at least you got to know why they were sucky. Why must every episode have Archer, Trip and T'Pol do everything? I think Reed and Hoshi are POTENTIALLY much more interesting, as is Phlox, who gets a medium amount of screentime. Half the cast might as well be red shirts (I'd throw Reed in with Hoshi and Mayweather, even though I like him when they occasionally use him).
1. Emanations - season 1
2. Non Sequitur - season 2
3. The Chute - season 3
4. Favourite Son - season 3
5. Timeless - season 5
6. The Disease - season 5
7. Nightinggale - season 7
Hoshi Sato Enterprise episodes:
1. Fight or Flight - season 1
2. Vox Sola - season 1
3. Vanishing Point - season 2
4. Exile - season 3
5. Countdown - season 3 (not her episode, but she was prominent in it)
Mayweather Enterprise Episodes
1. Detained - season 1
2. Horizon - season 2
Harry was used a medium amount in episodes not about him, unlike Hoshi and Mayweather. But Hoshi is not in the same category as Mayweather, the most underused, useless "main character" ever. The problem Hoshi shares with Mayweather is that she is not used much in the episodes that are not about her. Voyager had some sucky characters, but at least you got to know why they were sucky. Why must every episode have Archer, Trip and T'Pol do everything? I think Reed and Hoshi are POTENTIALLY much more interesting, as is Phlox, who gets a medium amount of screentime. Half the cast might as well be red shirts (I'd throw Reed in with Hoshi and Mayweather, even though I like him when they occasionally use him).
BigJonsson
Member
I demand more Hoshi
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