Expedition 33 director says AAA "scope and budget" could have hurt the game, because "not padding out the game time excessively" was key to success

LectureMaster

LectureMaster

Has Man Musk
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Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 director says AAA-sized "scope and budget" might have made it worse, actually, because "not artificially padding out the game time excessively" was key to the RPG's success

It could've created "a less engaging game for our players"
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Even with an unlimited budget, Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 wouldn’t have been a radically different or bigger game. We talk to creative director Guillaume Broche - AUTOMATON WEST

Interview with Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 creative director Guillaume Broche ahead of the title's major "Thank You Update."
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Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 may not have had a big AAA budget, but according to Sandfall Interactive, that might actually be a good thing – it could be what allowed the developers to create an RPG that's genuinely engaging.

Speaking in a recent interview with Automaton, creative director Guillaume Broche confirms as much as he explains why he doesn't think the team would've wanted "unlimited" resources. "I don't think we would have wanted to radically add unnecessary content or change the overall scope of our game," admits the lead. According to Broche, the smaller scope Sandfall had to work with helped make it a fun game – one without any "padding" to waste fans' time.

"I think part of the reason some fans enjoyed their time with our game was how we tried to respect the players' time by not artificially padding out the game time excessively," says Broche. "In some ways, having a limited budget and resources is helpful to narrow down the scope of a title and distill the vision to the core elements that make it great, and maybe having unlimited scope and budget would've made it a less engaging game for our players."

The director concludes, however, "It's hard to know!" As a fan myself, I'd argue he's right – and I'm likely not alone, either. Former PlayStation head Shuhei Yoshida called Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 a "perfect balance" of AAA ambition, AA budget, and "independent vision" earlier this year. Sandfall COO and producer François Meurisse also spoke on the topic of AAA budgets himself, saying games backed by big money don't always work.

I'm reminded of what Jon Bellamy, newly appointed CEO of RuneScape creator Jagex, said recently, too – that you can use "a tenth" of the AAA "$400 million budget" and still get "not so different results" if you do it right, citing Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 as an example. It's safe to say Sandfall certainly did make use of its smaller (in comparison to AAA titles) scope and budget, and the devs are still hard at work, as their new major update proves.
 
How the director left Ubi:

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LectureMaster said:
www.gamesradar.com

Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 director says AAA-sized "scope and budget" might have made it worse, actually, because "not artificially padding out the game time excessively" was key to the RPG's success

It could've created "a less engaging game for our players"
www.gamesradar.com www.gamesradar.com
automaton-media.com

Even with an unlimited budget, Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 wouldn’t have been a radically different or bigger game. We talk to creative director Guillaume Broche - AUTOMATON WEST

Interview with Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 creative director Guillaume Broche ahead of the title's major "Thank You Update."
automaton-media.com automaton-media.com
Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 may not have had a big AAA budget, but according to Sandfall Interactive, that might actually be a good thing – it could be what allowed the developers to create an RPG that's genuinely engaging.

Speaking in a recent interview with Automaton, creative director Guillaume Broche confirms as much as he explains why he doesn't think the team would've wanted "unlimited" resources. "I don't think we would have wanted to radically add unnecessary content or change the overall scope of our game," admits the lead. According to Broche, the smaller scope Sandfall had to work with helped make it a fun game – one without any "padding" to waste fans' time.

"I think part of the reason some fans enjoyed their time with our game was how we tried to respect the players' time by not artificially padding out the game time excessively," says Broche. "In some ways, having a limited budget and resources is helpful to narrow down the scope of a title and distill the vision to the core elements that make it great, and maybe having unlimited scope and budget would've made it a less engaging game for our players."

The director concludes, however, "It's hard to know!" As a fan myself, I'd argue he's right – and I'm likely not alone, either. Former PlayStation head Shuhei Yoshida called Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 a "perfect balance" of AAA ambition, AA budget, and "independent vision" earlier this year. Sandfall COO and producer François Meurisse also spoke on the topic of AAA budgets himself, saying games backed by big money don't always work.

I'm reminded of what Jon Bellamy, newly appointed CEO of RuneScape creator Jagex, said recently, too – that you can use "a tenth" of the AAA "$400 million budget" and still get "not so different results" if you do it right, citing Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 as an example. It's safe to say Sandfall certainly did make use of its smaller (in comparison to AAA titles) scope and budget, and the devs are still hard at work, as their new major update proves.
Click to expand...

With that major update coming that add content im glad I haven't played it yet. Let it cook just a while longer.
 
INB4 the salt about E33 praise.
But yeah, the better pacing and lack of dozens of hours of mandatory padding was one of the reasons I enjoyed E33 way more than the vast majority of JRPGs coming from Japan these days. Incidentally my other favorite JRPG from recent years, Chained Echoes, also had pretty good pacing (outside of a couple too many push the ball puzzles)....and it's also not made in Japan.

It's like japan forgot the GOAT Chrono Trigger is only like 25 hours long.
 
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The cool thing about E33 is nothing is wasted. Even optional areas have world lore tied to them so everything is worth doing.
 
Well, it's a big part of why I bought it. I'm tired of the unnecessarily long open-world RPGs. I want more concise, edited experiences.
 
Most RPGs don't justify their playtime past 40 hours, and 30ish hours is the perfect amount of time for the genre. You get enough to build character arcs, relationships, gameplay progression, and player choices...without tons of padded grind.

Worked well enough for Mass Effect before Bioware made characters whose faces got tired.
 
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I watched the credits roll at 101 hours.

Don't think this means the game is short.

I never had a dull moment at 100 hours and never touched NG+.

That's just how long it takes to become what I became.

The game is perfect.
 
"we tried to respect the players' time by not artificially padding out the game time excessively"

The Office Thank You GIF


I hope they taught Square this secret technique when they visited.
 
Games like FF7 Rebirth and Elden Ring remind me of writing essays in high school that had word count requirements. Most of the time I could fully make my point well before hitting the minimum number, so then I had to just make up a bunch of meandering fluff to fill out the rest. Some game devs - and JRPG devs like Square are probably most guilty of this - seem to think that there is some kind of unwritten rule that they must make games that are 100+ hours long. The result of this is usually a lot of boring side quests and recycled content.

As others have said, E33 isn't even a short game, but the difference is that the content is consistently compelling. The Endless Tower maybe overstays its welcome a bit, but otherwise I found that the side areas never took so long that they felt tiresome.
 
Zephyranthes said:
that they must make games that are 100+ hours long.
Click to expand...
Problem is wanting to do the stuff that makes the game 100+ hours long and most just do it to pad out a game that serves very little purpose. I imagine if all those rewards and unlocks you had to do via Chadley were done in the actual world that contributed to lore and made sense then Rebirth would be a much better game for it instead of Virtual Simming everything from optional fights to acquiring Summons.

The best world FF ever made that was and probably still is full of self-discovery is FFXI. Vanadiel is such a well crafted world.

I think the bigger offender is more Rebirth(Minigames/Towers/Chadley) then Elden Ring but I also think the more condensed format of Dark Souls 1/2/3 lends itself to being replayed more and Elden Ring is a slow burn game you generally only play once due to how massive it is.

Similar to playing Ocarina of Time multiple times over Breath of the Wild due to sheer size. It's much worse in Tears of the Kingdom with the amount of pointless things that only exist for sake of gameplay in both Sky Islands and the Depths.
 
I don't think length played into it too much. I easily burned another 15+ hours in act 3 doing side content and some of the story moments in there really felt like they should have been main path.

Expedition 33 worked because of it's writing, music, and performances. The gameplay was a bonus.

All the characters motivations made sense and could be empathized with. The plot wasn't driven by ignorance or misunderstandings that could be solved with a conversation, the characters had fundamental motivational differences. The final boss wasn't some stupid physical manifestation of a concept in monster form. You're not physically fighting a monster that represents Fate or Destiny (Yes I am bitter about the FF7 Remake)... Japan needs to learn to write stories again.
 
Wow. Its almost like having intentionally implemented contraints and boundaries fosters a more focused experience and forces creative outcomes. I havent heard that line of thought from any designer worth their salt, ever......get a clue AAAss hats.
 
Even in its current form I actually felt a little dissatisfied by the end. Whether there was too much endgame content or I didn't think it was all worth my time I'm not sure (or if it had to do with how easily you can break the game over your knee by endgame). The game certainly didn't need more though, he's right. A little more time to iron out some kinks, especially the UI on the picto skill selection, was really all the game needed otherwise.
 
I mean the game is absolutely packed as is. I don't think anyone was complaining about the length.

Wasn't even expecting it, but they are adding new stuff without even charging for it. That alone will drive further sales.
What a novel idea, reward the people that already purchased your game and offer even more incentive to your future players.
Pretty simple, right?

This game has earned its place as an all time classic and will continue to sell as a staple in the genre. For our current generation and future generations to experience (yes I mean actual generations of people).
 
They almost went overboard as it is. The final location of Act 2 and the beginning of Act 3 were already stretching my patience, and in the very last location of the story I just decided to avoid almost all combat. Filling the pre-final boss area with hordes of spongey enemies seems to be the hardest trope to let go, no matter what part of the world you're developing your game in. Of course this is due mostly to the fact that games that do this have little to offer beside combat, but seeing how E33 allows you to make one-shot builds and that it's not hard to be overleveled at the final boss anyway, it really wasn't necessary.

I didn't even touch the extra boss fights. I did the main story and some Act 3 exploring in around 33 hours, and that was enough. Even in the PS1 era Japan was releasing games that required way longer than that just to see the ending. It's pretty clear that too many games these days are made for people who don't work and never leave their house. The E33 devs definitely respect people's time more than so many others.
 
not padding out the game time excessively
Click to expand...

Shots fired.

This was a major issue in FFXV and FFVII-2

Only time Square hasn't fucked up was in KH1 and KH2 (haven't played any of the other KH games, but I'd guess it's the same), where the secret battles and side stuff is actually badass.
 
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A lot of people really do want games to be as 'big' as possible as a kind of value. We like them shorter so we can get that shit over with and onto the next lol.
 
The problem lies in the word "padding".

Filler content may not be calorically dense, but it does attempt to solve a problem.
 
Other developers thinking people have limited time to try other games, so lets make our game the most bloated one ever instead of a tight fun 10-15 hour experience excluding NG+
 
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