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Experts say it may be time for grocery stores to ban customers from coming inside because of Covid-19 | CNN Business

Dozens of grocery store workers have died from the coronavirus, despite masks, temperature checks and capacity restrictions to keep them safe. So far, supermarkets have resisted the most draconian policy: banning customers from coming inside.

www.cnn.com

Dozens of grocery store workers have died from the coronavirus, despite masks, temperature checks and capacity restrictions to keep them safe. So far, supermarkets have resisted the most draconian policy: banning customers from coming inside.

However, some worker experts, union leaders and small grocery owners believe it has become too dangerous to let customers browse aisles, coming into close range with workers. Grocery stores are still flooded with customers, and experts say it's time for large chains to go "dark" to the public and convert to curbside pickup and home delivery for food and other essential goods.
"Careless customers" are "probably the biggest threat" to workers right now, according to Marc Perrone, president of the United Food and Commercial Workers' union. The union said 85% of its grocery store member workers reported that customers are not practicing social distancing in stores.

"Anything that reduces the need for interaction with the public and allows for greater physical distancing will ultimately better protect grocery workers," said John Logan, professor and director of Labor and Employment Studies at San Francisco State University. "Shuttering stores and repurposing them for pickup and delivery only would be a positive step."

Public safety officials are not requiring essential stores to shut down to customers, but the US Labor Department last week recommended that retailers start "using a drive-through window or offering curbside pick-up" to protect workers for exposure to coronavirus. The California Department of Industrial Relations said this week that companies should "encourage customer use of online order and pickup."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/05/busi...ome-depot-masks-retail-coronavirus/index.html

Some big grocers are slowly starting to move in this direction. Whole Foods has closed down a store in New York City's Bryant Park area and transitioned it into an online-only store, focused solely on deliveries. Kroger (KR) and Giant Eagle have switched a few stores to pickup and delivery-only locations.

But these are a fraction of stores in their wide networks. And most large chains have hesitated to shut down to the public. Instead, they are implementing more limited policies like taking workers' temperatures and restricting the number customers inside stores at a time. Companies are calling on families to cut back on their trips to the store and shop alone if they can.
City and state governments are stepping in to force stricter safety measures than the companies have adopted. Los Angeles, Miami, Washington DC, New Jersey, Maryland and New York have ordered shoppers to wear masks or face coverings in stores. Vermont has required big box chains like Walmart to close down their "non-essential" sections like furniture, home and garden equipment and arts and crafts.

Putting the source aside and I put this in OT because I don't see it as a political issue I think there is a point here. I don't know the solution and I have tried to order online and notice there is like a 2 week waiting period. But OTOH grocery stores are a huge vector and since its really the only place that people can still go to without being side eyed you get people going there just for the LAWLZ.

Suggesting to close down grocery stores will create a giant panic, but its also not safe and IMO really negates the idea of a lock down, or at least a serious one.

I don't have a solution to this. Where I live they have you squirt some sanitizer when you come in, there are plexi glass at the cash and lines where people stand 2 meters apart. But I don't know if thats enough. We had a list of like 20 grocery stores that had someone infected in them.

Its an interesting problem that I don't know if there is a real solution to.

 

[Ovek]

In the UK they only let a set amount of people in and no couples (one of you better go wait in the car). It's supposed to help with social distancing, which it would if people paid the slightest attention to distance when they actually get in to the store.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

In the UK they only let a set amount of people in and no couples (one of you better go wait in the car). It's supposed to help with social distancing, which it would if people paid the slightest attention to distance when they actually get in to the store.

Walmart grocery store near me is doing that. They have a line outside amd only letting some people in at a time.

Experts should give me a 1200 stimulus check so I don't have to go to the store and instead order online.

 

[DKehoe]

Walmart grocery store near me is doing that. They have a line outside amd only letting some people in at a time.

Experts should give me a 1200 stimulus check so I don't have to go to the store and instead order online.

Asda, one of the largest supermarket chains here in the UK, is owned by Wal Mart so I would guess they are following similar procedures. They also have disinfectant sprays and wipes for you to spray down your trolley/basket as you enter and there are markers leading up to the checkouts to indicate the distance for people to maintain. But like Ovek said, most people just seem to be acting as normal when going around the aisles.

 

[entremet]

The bottleneck is two-fold. Stores that don't have the online infrastructure and consumers that don't have internet access or computer skills.

Definitely a very hard problem.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

The bottleneck is two-fold. Stores that don't have the online infrastructure and consumers that don't have internet access or computer skills.

Definitely a very hard problem.

Or money.

It costs extra to order online.

And for those on SNAP, stores don't accept them for online orders.

 

[ILLtown]

It's a good idea in theory, but here in the UK the demand for delivery and "click and collect" slots is already massive.

I was able to get a delivery from Tesco 3 weeks ago and I managed to get a click and collect slot there today, but that was after trying several times a day for the last 2 weeks. I have accounts with a couple of other supermarkets, including Asda, but I've not been able to get a thing from any of them online cos they're always fully booked.

 

[belmarduk]

That... is not going to work.
Wear masks, stay six feet apart.

 

[ManaByte]

Went to the grocery store today (not FEMA Camp Preparation Walmart) and everyone had masks on and were keeping their distance. This is just more panic porn.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

amazing of CNN to spread this kind of fear mongering bullshit. you want to cause mass panic, you print these type of stories.

the first day we heard about the quarantine, some random guy told us that they would close all stores even grocery. everyone panicked. thank god when they announced it, essential stores were still open. that guy? he said his source was a city planner. turns out even the higher ups are not immune to jumping to conclusions.

i went to a Walmart yesterday and there is plenty of space for shoppers. most people were wearing masks voluntarily. there really is no reason to do this.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Experts say it may be time for grocery stores to ban customers from coming inside because of Covid-19 | CNN Business

Dozens of grocery store workers have died from the coronavirus, despite masks, temperature checks and capacity restrictions to keep them safe. So far, supermarkets have resisted the most draconian policy: banning customers from coming inside.

www.cnn.com

Innovation is going to have to happen fast or that'll be all she wrote.

Very concerned what's going to happen as countries open back up and essential personnel gets sick. If you can get the virus multiple times and people are in trouble in spite of taking precautions, then this is going to get ugly...

 

[Punished Miku]

i went to a Walmart yesterday and there is plenty of space for shoppers. most people were wearing masks voluntarily. there really is no reason to do this.

I think it just depends on the area, and how heavily infected it is. For some areas, it's nothing. For hard hit areas, supermarket workers have died. They say in the article, Whole Foods and Kroger have already closed and switched to pickup / delivery only in some limited locations. I shop at Kroger. This is a real policy happening now.

I think you just have to accept that it's dangerous in the worst hit areas. The result of this will be panic, but that's where we're at right now. They would just need to ramp up delivery capacity rapidly.

 

[gunslikewhoa]

Or money.

It costs extra to order online.

And for those on SNAP, stores don't accept them for online orders.

I don't know where you shop, but I know that Walmart has no charge for pickup and accepts food stamps for pickup as well. I use Kroger. Pickup there has been free since the stay at home order here and they now accept food stamps as well.

 

[nush]

amazing of CNN to spread this kind of fear mongering bullshit. you want to cause mass panic, you print these type of stories.

the first day we heard about the quarantine, some random guy told us that they would close all stores even grocery. everyone panicked. thank god when they announced it, essential stores were still open. that guy? he said his source was a city planner. turns out even the higher ups are not immune to jumping to conclusions.

i went to a Walmart yesterday and there is plenty of space for shoppers. most people were wearing masks voluntarily. there really is no reason to do this.

Dozens, can they prove the source of infection was from the store they worked at? As long as the staff are given masks and gloves and hopefully plexiglass shields at the registers or even force customers to use self checkout I'd say that it's a reasonable level of protection.

 

[poppabk]

We need some hard data - dozens of hairdressers have no doubt died even though they have been completely shut down for ages. We need percentages of workers infected versus the regular public and then you make a risk assessment off of that. If the increase in risk is unnacceptable then sure start looking into making changes.

 

[EviLore]

Curbside pickup should be expanded and normalized. Out here it’s all booked up still, and it’s about a week lead time to get an Instacart delivery.

 

[iconmaster]

Experts Say Many Are Not Panicking Enough

 

[nush]

We need some hard data - dozens of hairdressers have no doubt died even though they have been completely shut down for ages. We need percentages of workers infected versus the regular public and then you make a risk assessment off of that. If the increase in risk is unnacceptable then sure start looking into making changes.

Dozens suggests less than 100 and trying to make it sound like more. If it was a 100 or more they would have said over a hundred or hundreds.

 

[MetalAlien]

Ban eating problem solved.

 

[JayK47]

So far the most reliable way for me to get food is through InstaCart. Curbside has been pretty bad and you are basically getting random stuff tossed in your trunk. It would be pretty bad if InstaCart did not have access to grocery stores. Not surprised to hear that regular costumers are not following standard procedures. That is why I have not been in a store for over a month.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

I don't know where you shop, but I know that Walmart has no charge for pickup and accepts food stamps for pickup as well. I use Kroger. Pickup there has been free since the stay at home order here and they now accept food stamps as well.

Not here. Already looked into it for my dad.

 

[poppabk]

Dozens suggests less than 100 and trying to make it sound like more. If it was a 100 or more they would have said over a hundred or hundreds.

Did some quick rough math:
US covid 19 deaths= 45000
US popn =300,000,000
Death rate per 1 million =150
Number of grocery store workers = 2.5 million
Expected deaths (on average) = 375
Now you would expect a much lower number of deaths amongst grocery store workers because of age but 'dozens' seems to be relatively in line with what you might expect to see even if they weren't working.

 

[belmarduk]

Not here. Already looked into it for my dad.

Do you have a Target? They do it.

 

[TaySan]

Not sure if agree with that. People still need to get essential food to survive. I think every store should offer pick up services at no extra charge.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Do you have a Target? They do it.

Is Target even open?

Yeah there's one but I'm not able to get to it and their grocery section is small.

 

[EviLore]

Not sure if agree with that. People still need to get essential food to survive. I think every store should offer pick up services at no extra charge.

Do you know what money is, TaySan?

 

[teezzy]

LIBERATE KROGER!

 

[TaySan]

Do you know what money is, TaySan?

Yes i do i have a decent amount of it saved up right now. But i think it would be in their best interest if there customers were safe and healthy.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I can't buy my meats and veggies without seeing them first. If they did this here it would be very difficult for me.

 

[EviLore]

Yes i do i have a decent amount of it saved up right now. But i think it would be in their best interest if there customers were safe and healthy.

Supermarkets run on razor thin margins, typically 1-3%. Personal shopping requires labor, and labor costs money. That needs to be passed along to the consumer one way or another, either by service charge or increased prices for the items themselves.

 

[MarikaKun73]

Not sure if agree with that. People still need to get essential food to survive. I think every store should offer pick up services at no extra charge.

That's not how capitalism works. And you can't expect this to become standard practise in huge cities.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Ban eating problem solved.

 

[TaySan]

Supermarkets run on razor thin margins, typically 1-3%. Personal shopping requires labor, and labor costs money. That needs to be passed along to the consumer one way or another, either by service charge or increased prices for the items themselves.

I'm sure Walmart can find a way to make it work. At least during a pandemic and especially if they are going to ban people from coming inside the store. It's not my problem for mega corps to solve

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yes i do i have a decent amount of it saved up right now. But i think it would be in their best interest if there customers were safe and healthy.

Explains everything. There are millions and millions who don't share the same privilege.

 

[TindalosPup]

Or money.

It costs extra to order online.

And for those on SNAP, stores don't accept them for online orders.

Amazon is offering ordering with SNAP/EBT but the wait for your order is over 2 weeks with any payment method and I think you still have to pay for the shipping

 

[EviLore]

I'm sure Walmart can find a way to make it work. At least during a pandemic and especially if they are going to ban people from coming inside the store. It's not my problem for mega corps to solve

Expecting other people’s labor for free, no wonder you Adblock GAF.

 

[rykomatsu]

Curbside pickup should be expanded and normalized. Out here it’s all booked up still, and it’s about a week lead time to get an Instacart delivery.

Our state grocery store allows online bookings out to 7-days in advance. They also open up next day slots during the day in a staggered manner. It's an additional $5 for next day. But having both options seems to have helped increase availability and accessibility. Before they did the dual approach, it was impossible to get any curbside delivery slots.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Amazon is offering ordering with SNAP/EBT but the wait for your order is over 2 weeks with any payment method and I think you still have to pay for the shipping

It may depend on state too.

Amazon offered Prime discount with those on SNAP. I tried to sign up my dad and he was denied. Called them and they said it's only currently available in NY.

Why the fuck advertise this discount when it's only available in one fucking state?

 

[#Phonepunk#]

big problem is, this would be great for people that have cars, and can order online. what about poor people? what about pedestrians? food is a necessity. people need to be able to access it. if you only allow it for car users or people that can order online, that's going to leave a lot of people hungry. it's the kind of solution that really only favors middle-upper class people.

I can't buy my meats and veggies without seeing them first. If they did this here it would be very difficult for me.

exactly. this is how people have shopped for produce for hundreds if not thousands of years. they go to a market and handle the food. removing this option entirely is a drastic step.

 

[TindalosPup]

It may depend on state too.

Amazon offered Prime discount with those on SNAP. I tried to sign up my dad and he was denied. Called them and they said it's only currently available in NY.

Why the fuck advertise this discount when it's only available in one fucking state?

That's awful, man, I'm sorry

 

[Lanrutcon]

We have not even remotely begun seeing the worst this disease could bring out in people.

So...you guys shoot looters, right?

 

[TindalosPup]

We have not even remotely begun seeing the worst this disease could bring out in people.

So...you guys shoot looters, right?

I got 65 acres, 11 chickens, and most importantly people to protect

I'll be taking down anyone that tries it or die in the process

 

[Super Mario]

I drove past a Trader Joe's with people lined up down the street to get it.

That was a no from me dog

 

[Lanrutcon]

I got 65 acres, 11 chickens, and most importantly people to protect

I'll be taking down anyone that tries it or die in the process

And quite frankly, who can blame you?

Tricky situation. There must be a middle ground in terms of keeping the grocery stores open, I hope.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

big problem is, this would be great for people that have cars, and can order online. what about poor people? what about pedestrians? food is a necessity. people need to be able to access it. if you only allow it for car users or people that can order online, that's going to leave a lot of people hungry. it's the kind of solution that really only favors middle-upper class people.

exactly. this is how people have shopped for produce for hundreds if not thousands of years. they go to a market and handle the food. removing this option entirely is a drastic step.

That's my problem. No money or transportation and only Internet is from my phone. No Internet on PC here.

So it makes it hard to do anything.

The poor are getting worst time of most right now.

 

[nush]

So it makes it hard to do anything.

It used to take me 40 minutes to walk to my local walmart. Some things are only a problem if you choose to do nothing about them and just point at it and say "Look problem! I can't do anything!".

 

[cryptoadam]

I can't buy my meats and veggies without seeing them first. If they did this here it would be very difficult for me.

Solyent Green is people

 

[Setzer]

That... is not going to work.
Wear masks, stay six feet apart.

Exactly. This is dumb and it will never work. Just enforce people to wear masks, stay 6ft apart and only allow X # of people in the store at a time.

 

[TindalosPup]

It used to take me 40 minutes to walk to my local walmart. Some things are only a problem if you choose to do nothing about them and just point at it and say "Look problem! I can't do anything!".

I know what you mean there, but personally, I consider that lucky placement

The closest convenience store isn't even that close where I am, it takes that long to ride a bike there (unfortunately my bike got wrecked in an accident last year)

Currently we walk an hour and a half there and another hour a half back just for some milk

 

[Fox Mulder]

this isn’t happening. Places like Walmart are limiting the number of customers in the store together. At most, stores will be asked to require masks or something.

The current grocery store pickup systems are fucking slammed without having to do it for every customer. Adding more employees won’t necessarily help with that, costs more money, and still adds more people in the same stores.