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Failed military coup in Turkey; Erdogan promising swift reprisal

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K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Well, there it is. Violent video games not only create crimes in Germany but they also produce coup in Turkey. Time to ban them all.
 
R

Ran rp

Member
Condom said:
State news channel ATV shows blueprints for the coup allegedly made by the Gülen group but they appear to be cheat codes for GTA IV instead
Click to expand...

thumb_31971.large.jpg
 
M

Metal B

Member
chadskin said:
CpRfqYXXEAEQAID.jpg:large
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Propaganda at its best.
Good thing, we don't calculate the greatness and nobility of a leader by the shows and pictures he can produce ... in hindsight =(

Phantast2k said:
Erdogan says talks with Putin to open new page in relations: TASS | Reuters

This is quite funny, because the Syrian rebels (heavily supplied by / through Turkey) just broke the siege of Eastern Aleppo which Russia helped to impose.
Click to expand...
I can't see anything bad coming out of this, if you try to negotiate with a guy like Putin, if he knows, you pissed of all your old allies ...
 
G

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
Phantast2k said:
Erdogan says talks with Putin to open new page in relations: TASS | Reuters

This is quite funny, because the Syrian rebels (heavily supplied by / through Turkey) just broke the siege of Eastern Aleppo which Russia helped to impose.
Click to expand...

The foreign minister of Russia said that condition to normalization was a change in Turkey syrian policy.

Turning point for Erdogan. If he go with Iran-Russia, he would be smashed by his political base, but if he don't he will be stuck in this geopolitical quagmire.
 
F

Funyarinpa

Member
Don't think Erdoğan could do anything to alienate his fans at this point.

Tangentially to the topic, #TekMilletTekYürek (#OneNationOneHeart) is globally trending on Twitter with almost 500K tweets.
 
G

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
DiipuSurotu said:
A rally launched by Ergodan, with what remains of the opposition, and without the Kurds.
Click to expand...

Kurds and HDP is not the same thing, many kurds vote for AKP.

(http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/w...o-kurdish-votes-go-ruling-ak-party-1279486418)

Erdogan actually need the support of the nationalists and CHP republican party, who are much opposed to any type of deal with the autonomist movement.

The HDP search to show support to the government against the Coup because the alleged Gulenist coup would have been motivated by a reaction against the political process with the autonomous movement.
 
P

Phantast2k

Member
Metal B said:
I can't see anything bad coming out of this, if you try to negotiate with a guy like Putin, if he knows, you pissed of all your old allies ...
Click to expand...

They are very like-minded individuals who can't really be friends due to the circumstances.

commedieu said:
Putins getting folks to join their counter nato/eu. I wonder..

Turkey does want that pipeline.
Click to expand...

No, not really. The economics behind this pipeline have been questionable from the start, that's why practically nothing happened to the plans between the announcement & the downing of the Russian plane.
It's more of a saving face thing / PR stunt by Putin.

Saving face because Gazprom had already, preemptively built a large portion of it into the black sea to connect to Bulgaria to force the EU to approve it. However, prior to that, the EU had passed legislation to prevent single member states from signing big energy contracts which are relevant to EU's energy policy. So of course it did not approve it.

So Putin pivoted and announced this new pipeline plan, but it doesn't seem like Turkey is willing to commit to even more gas imports from Russia in a bearish commodity market & while the world is moving to liquefied gas & spot market gas prices.
And when it comes to selling it in EU, getting the gas to Turkey is not the same as getting it to the EU. There are tariffs & quotas in place.
And here's the problem: Russia wanted Turkey to pay for their part of the infrastructure and use them as a transit country (like Ukraine). Turkey on the other hand wanted to act as a broker so it basically went: Uh ok, so build it then. Which Gazprom didn't do since it would not be profitable.

Golden_Pigeon said:
The foreign minister of Russia said that condition to normalization was a change in Turkey syrian policy.

Turning point for Erdogan. If he go with Iran-Russia, he would be smashed by his political base, but if he don't he will be stuck in this geopolitical quagmire.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that makes sense. Also that would bring:
  • More refugees
  • Wrath of the gulf states whose support is vital right now due to the hostile climate for Western investment
 
G

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
YoungFa said:
Some real 3rd Reich vibes.
Click to expand...

It's a national celebration, it's not associated to any political party in particular, so i don't think that the godwin point is needed here.
One of the trait of the demonstration against the coup was the scarcity of Erdogan portrait or AKP flags.

I think that any country would have avoided a military coup would display the same kind of national pride, adding to that that Turks are a *REALLY* nationalistic people.

I can recommend a really good article that show that the failed coup will maybe help to reverse the authoritarian trend, since Erdogan now need more than ever the opposition:

Is Erdogan really stronger after failed coup? -Kadri Gursel (who write in a opposition newspaper)

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...rdogan-really-stronger-after-failed-coup.html
 
J

Jackpot

Banned
dp, but the whole thing got used as a platform for bringing back the death penalty.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37003819

Turkey death penalty: Erdogan backs return at Istanbul rally

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has told a huge rally in Istanbul that he would approve the return of the death penalty if it was backed by parliament and the public.

He was speaking to hundreds of thousands of flag-waving supporters who had gathered in Turkey's biggest city.
Click to expand...

Mr Erdogan also said the state would be cleansed of all supporters of the US-based cleric Fethullah Gulen.

The cleric is blamed by the Turkish government for the attempted uprising. He denies any involvement.

Religious figures and leaders of two of Turkey's three opposition parties attended the rally. The Kurdish party was not invited.
Click to expand...

Mr Erdogan told the rally: "It is the Turkish parliament that will decide on the death penalty... I declare it in advance, I will approve the decision made by the parliament.

"They say there is no death penalty in the EU... Well, the US has it; Japan has it; China has it; most of the world has it. So they are allowed to have it. We used to have it until 1984. Sovereignty belongs to the people, so if the people make this decision I am sure the political parties will comply."
Click to expand...

"Of course we have to uncover all members of this organisation and eradicate them within the framework of the law, but if we content ourselves with just that, then we as a state and a nation will leave weak our defence against similar viruses."

The "Democracy and Martyrs' Rally" was the climax of three weeks of nightly demonstrations by Mr Erdogan's supporters around the country.
Click to expand...

That doing things outside the "framework of the law" to cleanse the virus comment is rather chilling.
 
G

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
It would be unconstitutional to give death sentence for crime that was made before law change, i read an analyst that said that he was only giving a strong stance to go with his political base, but it was very unlikely to happen.

But i totally see that instaured for the future yes.
 
G

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
Nikodemos said:
Man, Erdo holds one crazy grudge over Gulen trying to jail his son in that corruption trial.
Click to expand...

It's a bit more complicated than that (the author of the article is against the AKP)

"The de-Gulenification of Turkey- Mustafa Akyol"

"If one needs to define what is going on in Turkey in the aftermath of the failed July 15 coup attempt, besides the arrest of the actual putschists, here is an accurate term: The de-Gulenification of Turkey. Just like the de-Baathification process in post-occupation Iraq, the aim is to cleanse the whole public sector from a cadre that is considered to be the enemy of the state."
Click to expand...
Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...p-attempt-degulenification.html#ixzz4Ggr7yV5l
 
H

Hazzuh

Member
Interesting interview with Erdogan in Le Monde. Obviously Erdogan not a good guy but criticisms of western hypocrisy/inconsistency (especially on the rendition point) ring true imo.

During the coup attempt, a number of leaders of the Western world called me on the phone. It was not enough. We were not facing an ordinary terrorist attack. We have had 240 martyrs and 2,200 people have been wounded. The whole world took a stand when Charlie Hedbo was attacked. Our Prime Minister joined in the march in the streets of Paris. I wish the world leaders had reacted in the same way to what happened in Turkey and that they wouldn’t merely use a few clichés to denunciate the coup. Or else they could have come here.

The Western world is not consistent here with the values it advocates. The Western world must show solidarity with Turkey, which as adopted its democratic values. Unfortunately Western leaders have prefered to leave Turkish people to themselves. Western people should not bother about the number of people that were arrested or dismissed. A state has the right to hire and dismiss its civil servants as it wishes, and Turkey has never interfered in this type of matter with its Western partners. It is up to us to decide who we want to work with and who we want to dismiss. Governments should know their place. We are struggling against a coup attempt, against terrorists. The Western world must understand what we are dealing with.

When Mr. Putin called me to present his condolances, he didn’t criticize me on the number of people from the military or civil service who had been dismissed. Whereas all the Europeans asked me: why are so many soldiers detained, why have so many civil servants been dismissed? You need to really understand the events we have been through before passing a judgement: the Parliament and the intelligence services have been bombed. Even the Presidential Complex was targeted by fighter aircrafts; six martyrs lost their lives. Instead of showing empathy, Western leaders had the opposite reaction. This makes us sad and it is unacceptable.
Click to expand...

The head of the terrorist organization (accused of fomenting the July 15 coup) has been living in the United States since 1999. I asked President Obama to extradite Gülen. He asked me for documents and evidence. I pointed out to him that when the United States asked for terrorists to be extradited, we never asked for anything and just did it. By virtue of our strategic partnership, the United States must extradite this person since Turkey has already extradited about ten terrorists to the United States. We sent 85 crates of documents to the United States. I now hope that Gülen will be extradited to Turkey as soon as possible. This would allow the anti-American feeling in Turkey to be dispelled.

On August 24, Mr. Kerry [the head of American diplomacy] will come to Turkey for an official visit. It is late, too late. This makes us sad. What more do Americans need? Their strategic ally is facing a coup and it takes them 45 days before sending anyone over? This is shocking. When the World Trade Center was attacked (on 9/11/2001), I immediately reacted: I condemned the attacks which I qualified as a terrorist crime. I would have wished for American officials to come up with stronger words and to come to Turkey earlier. Unfortunately, it didn’t happen this way.
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http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/articl...urkish-people-to-themselves_4979866_3214.html
 
I

iRAWRasaurus

Banned
(CNN)Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan gave the United States "an ultimatum," demanding the extradition of the cleric he believes is behind the failed July 15 coup attempt.
The state-run Anadolu news agency reported that Erdogan had said the US had to choose between its relationship with Turkey and Fethullah Gulen, a former Erdogan ally who has been in self-imposed exile in Pennsylvania for decades.

Turkey has requested his extradition, while Gulen denied involvement in the coup.
Click to expand...
"Sooner or later the US will make a choice. Either Turkey or FETO," Erdogan said, in reference to the movement headed by Gulen.
Turkey considers the cleric and his followers terrorists. Last weekend, at a unity rally, he likened the coup plotters to "terrorists wearing military uniforms."
During that rally, he said he would sign a reintroduction of the death penalty into law if it was approved by parliament. Such a move would likely end Turkey's ambitions to join the European Union.
Click to expand...
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/11/politics/turkey-us-fethullah-gulen-ultimatum/index.html
 
G

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
If Turkey leave NATO, it would be more catastrophic for NATO than for Turkey, as they just discovered in the aftermath of the coup. Turkey is now likely to join the Russian international sphere of influence against the western world.

I think we´ll remember this moment of history as a big opportunity missed.

Anyway, UE and USA protecting coup plotter and dictators from being extracted, ring a lot of resonance with some event of recent history...
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
They aren't protecting him, Kerry came out multiple times to say that they are willing to extradite him under due process.
It's just that Erdogan is talking out of his ass.

This whole thing will go down in history as Turkey throwing away their freedom, their democracy and their secularism if at all.
 
C

Condom

Member
I'm still waiting on the proof that it was the Gülen movement, AFAIK the only thing we have now is what the AKP government is saying.

I mean it isn't different from in the West, that thing where people just randomly believe what government officials tell them.
 
G

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
Condom said:
I'm still waiting on the proof that it was the Gülen movement, AFAIK the only thing we have now is what the AKP government is saying.

I mean it isn't different from in the West, that thing where people just randomly believe what government officials tell them.
Click to expand...

There is a general consensus in Turkey about this matter, especially among the secular opposition (CHP) who really hate the gulenist for all the trials they made against them when the relation with Erdogan was not so bad.
The kurdish autonomist (HDP) hate them as well since they are hardcore turkish nationalist and totally opposed with the peace process with PKK that Erdogan had started before the syrian quagmire.
 
C

Condom

Member
Golden_Pigeon said:
There is a general consensus in Turkey about this matter, especially among the secular opposition (CHP) who really hate the gulenist for all the trials they made against them when the relation with Erdogan was not so bad.
The kurdish autonomist (HDP) hate them as well since they are hardcore turkish nationalist and totally opposed with the peace process with PKK that Erdogan had started before the syrian quagmire.
Click to expand...

I understand that and I don't care about Gülen and his stuff but we still need proof. Everybody can hate him for good reasons but that isn't proof that he planned the coup.
 
G

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
Condom said:
I understand that and I don't care about Gülen and his stuff but we still need proof. Everybody can hate him for good reasons but that isn't proof that he planned the coup.
Click to expand...

I agree with that, we need proof and not scapegoating.
But who else would have done the coup if not the gulenist ? They were ultra-powerful in all the state institutions and were getting outlawed and expelled one by one. The other option is the "secular" Deep State, ergenekon, but it's dead since well, ironically, the gulenist destroyed it.

And the fact that Gulen waited until the coup was totally failed, even after the US, to condemn it is also very disturbing.

If it was a "autocoup" like some like to say, Gulen would have been the first to condemn it since it was pretty obvious that he and his organization will fall.
But he waited, and it's consistent with the theory that he made it, since the narrative of him saving Turkey would have been quiet flawed if he condemn it.

But, again, it's all conjunctural, we need a fair trial. Honestly i don't think that Turkey will provide that right now, but like Erdogan said, US is asking all the time for alleged terrorists who finish in gitmo without a trial. I don't see how it's worse, but two bad don't make a right like somebody just said.
 
N

noobie

Banned
My question. is what proof were given before USA attacked Afghanistan and Iraq? the fake videos of chemical weapons they showed in United Nation?

Wow, these americans have got balls to ask others for proof. LOL

all Americans are like Trump. liars, egoistic and crazy
 
F

fanboi

Banned
noobie said:
My question. is what proof were given before USA attacked Afghanistan and Iraq? the fake videos of chemical weapons they showed in United Nation?

Wow, these americans have got balls to ask others for proof. LOL

all Americans are like Trump. liars, egoistic and crazy
Click to expand...

Just because one did something wrong doesn't mean that another makes it right.
 
M

Mr. Giggles

Member
noobie said:
My question. is what proof were given before USA attacked Afghanistan and Iraq? the fake videos of chemical weapons they showed in United Nation?

Wow, these americans have got balls to ask others for proof. LOL

all Americans are like Trump. liars, egoistic and crazy
Click to expand...

What?

The situations are apples and oranges with this, Afghanistan was attacked because taliban and 9/11. Iraq was the one with faked videos.
 
O

Orniletter

Banned
noobie said:
My question. is what proof were given before USA attacked Afghanistan and Iraq? the fake videos of chemical weapons they showed in United Nation?

Wow, these americans have got balls to ask others for proof. LOL

all Americans are like Trump. liars, egoistic and crazy
Click to expand...

Yeah, literally all of them. What a dumb and ignorant post, your post is the one that comes off as crazy. Of course two wrongs don't make a right.

It's standard procedure (and obviously the right thing) to ask for proof when one of your refugees is said to conspire something as grave as a military coup (and there has been a grand total of "fuck all" as far as proof is concerned).

I'm dying to know your nationality btw.
 
S

spekkeh

Banned
Golden_Pigeon said:
I agree with that, we need proof and not scapegoating.
But who else would have done the coup if not the gulenist ? They were ultra-powerful in all the state institutions and were getting outlawed and expelled one by one. The other option is the "secular" Deep State, ergenekon, but it's dead since well, ironically, the gulenist destroyed it.

And the fact that Gulen waited until the coup was totally failed, even after the US, to condemn it is also very disturbing.

If it was a "autocoup" like some like to say, Gulen would have been the first to condemn it since it was pretty obvious that he and his organization will fall.
But he waited, and it's consistent with the theory that he made it, since the narrative of him saving Turkey would have been quiet flawed if he condemn it.

But, again, it's all conjunctural, we need a fair trial. Honestly i don't think that Turkey will provide that right now, but like Erdogan said, US is asking all the time for alleged terrorists who finish in gitmo without a trial. I don't see how it's worse, but two bad don't make a right like somebody just said.
Click to expand...
Or maybe the military just didn't like being curtailed and taken over by incompetent Erdogan stooges, as they fear an end to the secular state.

Besides, maybe Gulen wasn't behind it but figured that if it succeeded he would be the rightful one to take over, and simply waited to see which way the coin was falling. I think this motive by elimination is very simplistic.
 
A

Amalthea

Banned
I have seen something about how the child abuse laws were suspended a few weeks ago but there are barely any reports, I think one is on Hürriyet but I don't know how reliable they are.
 
F

forms

Member
oti xero said:
There's not enough prison space for the coupists. 38k convicts (excluding murderers, domestic violence offenders, sexual offenders and people who acted against the state) will leave prison to make room for them.

http://m.heute.de/ZDF/zdfportal/xml/object/44848210
Click to expand...

Last time I saw that many prisoners let out, combined with the police being dismantled at such a level, was in a Batman movie. Didn't go too well for the citizens.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
I think we long reached a point stuff like this deserves its own thread.
This is so comical it deserves exposure.

Generally releasing people serving time for non violent crimes could be fine though.
 
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