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[daw840]

On one hand I don't like the idea of the government meddling with something like this. They're bound to screw it up. On the other hand the amount of salt in some foods is absurd. I can't even find tortilla chips that don't taste like they've been doused in salt.

And as was already mentioned if the government is going to regulate something like this it needs to be corn syrup.

Options are available.

 

[Jex]

LOL, I knew here on GAF some people would actually support this. Completely insane.

Step one towards Gattaca.

That's exactly the correct comparison.

First they take our salt, then they take our guns, then they take our FREEDOM.

 

[Barrett2]

so pretzel sticks are illegal now?

Im' pretty sure Slim Jim's will be a controlled substance after this regulation goes into effect. Carrying more than three in your back pocket will be possession with intent to distribute. 5-10 in a Federal supermax.

 

[LQX]

Meh, I don't really mind. I bet we wont really notice anyway.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Umm, where exactly is the evidence that high salt consumption is bad for an normal individual?

 

[RevoDS]

People will just add salt to their food, won't they?

I see what they're trying to do, but...it won't work.

 

[harSon]

Well everyone kept telling me in the other thread that people really do care about eating healthy but it's just so difficult to find out what's good and bad for them.

Honestly, I really want it because it'd be nice for me to know. If other people don't give a damn about the 3000mg of sodium in their fettucine alfredo then fuck 'em.

Yup, this. I find it absolutely disgusting and reprehensibly negligent of the restaurant.

It's nice to have but it's not going to radically change anyone's eating habits. Having the nutritional information at Chili's isn't going to change the fact that everything at the restaurant is basically bad for you. About the best you could do is make a conscious decision to eat the least fattening, but still fattening in the grand scheme of things, thing on the menu.

 

[Futureman]

Seriously now: What do supporters of this think of the favoritism suggested towards the pickle industry? Should pickles be exempt from this simply because they're "naturally salty"? If the contention is excessive salt is a BAD thing, and if they're concerned that we're consuming too much salt.... why make the exemption for pickles? Just "because"? Or is there, you know, some SCIENTIFIC reason that salt from pickles is somehow?

Just to add a little color to that question, dill pickles contain 1428 mg of sodium for a 3.5 ounce portion. sweet pickles are only 712 mg for a 3.5 ounce portion.

On the other hand, McDonald's SUPER SIZED french fries are only 390mg. Burger King's are significant's higher than McDonald's but even their "king size" fries have less salt than dill pickles.ss

Well I dunno. It's obviously a complicated issue. The intention behind the bill would be a healthier population, which is a good thing. The FDA's intention is not to turn our country into a police state.

I also think the main thrust behind the bill is to lower sodium content in processed foods, so stuff like pickles which are naturally salty would be left alone.

 

[Doytch]

It's nice to have but it's not going to radically change anyone's eating habits. Having the nutritional information at Chili's isn't going to change the fact that everything at the restaurant is basically bad for you. About the best you could do is make a conscious decision to eat the least fattening, but still fattening in the grand scheme of things, thing on the menu.

Right, but (if you care,) once you see those numbers, you might think twice before going there next time.

 

[Gaborn]

Well I dunno. It's obviously a complicated issue. The intention behind the bill would be a healthier population, which is a good thing. The FDA's intention is not to turn our country into a police state.

I also think the main thrust behind the bill is to lower sodium content in processed foods, so stuff like pickles which are naturally salty would be left alone.

Why though? If salt is bad, and pickles are more salty than even the largest of perpetual whipping boy McDonald's fries, why not protect the public from them? I'd bet (without looking at the numbers so I could be spectacularly wrong) that more people eat pickles than Mcdonald's fries.

 

[Yaweee]

Seriously now: What do supporters of this think of the favoritism suggested towards the pickle industry? Should pickles be exempt from this simply because they're "naturally salty"? If the contention is excessive salt is a BAD thing, and if they're concerned that we're consuming too much salt.... why make the exemption for pickles? Just "because"? Or is there, you know, some SCIENTIFIC reason that salt from pickles is somehow less bad?

Just to add a little color to that question, dill pickles contain 1428 mg of sodium for a 3.5 ounce portion. sweet pickles are only 712 mg for a 3.5 ounce portion.

On the other hand, McDonald's SUPER SIZED french fries are only 390mg. Burger King's are significant's higher than McDonald's but even their "king size" fries have less salt than dill pickles.

Agent Orange. Cucumber farms. It's the only way to be sure.

 

[Like the hat?]

salt is a required part of the pickling process.

 

[Gaborn]

salt is a required part of the pickling process.

So? Again. You can't regulate salt on the grounds that it's a health hazard and THEN say that it's ok to protect a favored industry just because it's part of the pickle making process. I could say that salt is a required part of making all the foods they're complaining about. The issue FDA is trying to make out of salt is the CONTENT of salt in food products. So either it should be consistent across the board or they're going to engage in favoritism to certain industries, putting pickle makers ahead of public health.

 

[Like the hat?]

If this happens I am all for letting pickles be exempt, because they are delicious.

 

[Yaweee]

salt is a required part of the pickling process.

Salt is a required part of making french fries not suck ass.

 

[Gaborn]

Salt is a required part of making french fries not suck ass.

Not to mention fettuccine alfredo. I'd LOVE to hear how you can make that have less salt and taste as good :lol

 

[JoeBoy101]

Going to ask it again:

Umm, where exactly is the evidence that high salt consumption is bad for an normal individual?

Based on my perusing, high salt content is bad for you, but only if you have certain pre-existing conditions.

From WikiAnswers:

Certainly patients with a history of renal disease, liver disease and congestive heart failure may be at risk for consuming excess sodium which contributes to worsening edema. And some forms of hypertension are more sodium dependent and increased sodium intake will cause increases in blood pressure. Whether or not this is true with every type of hypertension and has been the subject of much controversy in medicine, with some earlier studies suggesting that that blood pressure regulation is more closely tied to calcium, potassium and magnesium and less likely to sodium. Recent studies however have suggested that excessive salt intake in hypertensive patients, directly or through locally activated growth hormones and factors, increases left ventricle mass and extracellular collagen deposition and, in that way, aggravates hypertension-related left ventricle functional disturbances.

Now whether excess sodium intake is detrimental to normal individuals is less clear. And certainly patients with Addison's Disease or a salt wasting nephropathy need excess sodium for volume expansion and improvement of symptoms.

Now, I'm willing to accept I'm missing something or certainly that Wiki has it wrong, but I haven't got from Google or otherwise the compelling case why the majority of the US needs their salt regulated.

In fact, I hit this instead:

http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_releases/high_salt_intake_health_risk_debunked

High-salt diets may not increase the risk of death, contrary to long-held medical beliefs, according to investigators from the Albert Einstein College of Medicine of Yeshiva University.

They reached their conclusion after examining dietary intake among a nationally representative sample of adults in the U.S. The Einstein researchers actually observed a significantly increased risk of death from cardiovascular disease (CVD) associated with lower sodium diets.

The researchers analyzed data from the Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES III), which was conducted by the federal government among a nationally representative sample of U.S. adults. These data were then compared against death records that had been collected by the government through the year 2000. The sample of approximately 8,700 represented American adults who were over 30 years of age at the time of the baseline survey (1988-1994) and were not on a special low-salt diet.

After adjusting for known CVD risk factors, such as smoking, diabetes and blood pressure, the one-fourth of the sample who reported consuming the lowest amount of sodium were found to be 80% more likely to die from CVD compared to the one-fourth of the sample consuming the highest level of sodium. The risk for death from any cause appeared 24% greater for those consuming lower salt, but this latter difference was not quite large enough to dismiss the role of chance.

“Our findings suggest that for the general adult population, higher sodium is very unlikely to be independently associated with higher risk of death from CVD or all other causes of death,” says Dr. Hillel W. Cohen, associate professor of epidemiology and population health at Einstein.

It is stated though that this is not a clinical trial.

 

[Like the hat?]

Salt is a required part of making french fries not suck ass.

Fries should also be exempt, but only waffle fries. Why does no fast food place serve waffle fries? They are the superior fry.

 

[Futureman]

So? Again. You can't regulate salt on the grounds that it's a health hazard and THEN say that it's ok to protect a favored industry just because it's part of the pickle making process. I could say that salt is a required part of making all the foods they're complaining about. The issue FDA is trying to make out of salt is the CONTENT of salt in food products. So either it should be consistent across the board or they're going to engage in favoritism to certain industries, putting pickle makers ahead of public health.

I don't think this is true. People don't sit around stuffing their face full of pickles.

People do sit around stuffing their face full of processed foods.

I think the good that could come from this bill is food producers looking at different ways to make foods without using so much salt. I guess salt is an easy and cheap way to do it now, show hopefully this would push them to look at alternatives?

 

[captmcblack]

I totally support this.

In fact, I'd love to see them team this initiative up with:

- similar regulation for sugar, HFCS and related sweeteners
- detailed info on calories/fat/sugars/salt/carbs on menus and all foods (regular storebought food already has that info on it)

These sorts of things HELP people. They don't hurt people, enslave people or take away their freedom to eat as much of whatever they want. You think because they have to make KFC Double Downs less salty that tubbos inclined to eat 4 of them at one sitting won't do it? Absolutely not.

But for regular people, this will be awesome.

 

[RedStep]

So? Again. You can't regulate salt on the grounds that it's a health hazard and THEN say that it's ok to protect a favored industry just because it's part of the pickle making process. I could say that salt is a required part of making all the foods they're complaining about. The issue FDA is trying to make out of salt is the CONTENT of salt in food products. So either it should be consistent across the board or they're going to engage in favoritism to certain industries, putting pickle makers ahead of public health.

Your thinking is very bizarre. Yes, they can make exceptions for "natural" products with a lot of salt. By restricting the process of adding sodium to food products. Salt is not a "health hazard", nor has that been suggested. WAY TOO MUCH salt is a health hazard. A pickle is not a dangerous product, nor can it be produced without a high level of salt.

To state that they can't start a downward trend without applying a blind across-the-board rule is asinine.

 

[EvilMario]

Not enough salt on those McDonald's fries? Bring your own.

 

[Leunam]

I totally support this.

In fact, I'd love to see them team this initiative up with:

- similar regulation for sugar, HFCS and related sweeteners
- detailed info on calories/fat/sugars/salt/carbs on menus and all foods (regular storebought food already has that info on it)

These sorts of things HELP people. They don't hurt people, enslave people or take away their freedom to eat as much of whatever they want. You think because they have to make KFC Double Downs less salty that tubbos inclined to eat 4 of them at one sitting won't do it? Absolutely not.

But for regular people, this will be awesome.

BUBUBUBUBU GATTACA

 

[besada]

Fries should also be exempt, but only waffle fries. Why does no fast food place serve waffle fries? They are the superior fry.

Chik-fil-a does.

 

[Futureman]

Not enough salt on those McDonald's fries? Bring your own.

Yep, don't ignore this people. It's not like salt is going to become illegal. You can still just sit around eating it out of a bag if you wish.

 

[TheLastCandle]

Fries should also be exempt, but only waffle fries. Why does no fast food place serve waffle fries? They are the superior fry.

I'm with you! Waffle fries are glorious. They also hold on to ketchup (or your preferred dip) very well.

 

[CrayzeeCarl]

I don't think this is true. People don't sit around stuffing their face full of pickles.

People do sit around stuffing their face full of processed foods.

I think the good that could come from this bill is food producers looking at different ways to make foods without using so much salt. I guess salt is an easy and cheap way to do it now, show hopefully this would push them to look at alternatives?

They'll find some other terribly unhealthy method to process food. :/

 

[daw840]

I totally support this.

In fact, I'd love to see them team this initiative up with:

- similar regulation for sugar, HFCS and related sweeteners
- detailed info on calories/fat/sugars/salt/carbs on menus and all foods (regular storebought food already has that info on it)

These sorts of things HELP people. They don't hurt people, enslave people or take away their freedom to eat as much of whatever they want. You think because they have to make KFC Double Downs less salty that tubbos inclined to eat 4 of them at one sitting won't do it? Absolutely not.

But for regular people, this will be awesome.

Regular people should be making their own god damn decisions regarding what to eat.

 

[blame space]

I keep hearing this repeated on GAF and every single time I do I get confused. Almost every soda or diet soda I've seen is right around 50mg or less sodium content per serving, which is right around 1-2% or your daily ammount. That's not catastrophic.

V8 on the other hand, is a salty beverage. And a shitty one.

there's a low-sodium version of V8. and it is amazing.

 

[Gaborn]

I totally support this.

In fact, I'd love to see them team this initiative up with:

- similar regulation for sugar, HFCS and related sweeteners
- detailed info on calories/fat/sugars/salt/carbs on menus and all foods (regular storebought food already has that info on it)

These sorts of things HELP people. They don't hurt people, enslave people or take away their freedom to eat as much of whatever they want. You think because they have to make KFC Double Downs less salty that tubbos inclined to eat 4 of them at one sitting won't do it? Absolutely not.

But for regular people, this will be awesome.

Nope. But I think if you're going to exempt the pickle industry you're placing less of a burden on them. Also, just like the trans fat bans in various cities didn't hurt big companies like McDonald's, Burger King, etc significantly because they had the resources to do the research to get the taste right, this is going to have a bigger effect on smaller companies that DON'T have the resources to spent hundreds of thousands much less MILLIONS on food research like larger companies are to provide the same taste with less salt.

Your thinking is very bizarre. Yes, they can make exceptions for "natural" products with a lot of salt. By restricting the process of adding sodium to food products. Salt is not a "health hazard", nor has that been suggested. WAY TOO MUCH salt is a health hazard. A pickle is not a dangerous product, nor can it be produced without a high level of salt.

This seems like a bizarre collection of statements. 1. Way too much salt is bad. 2. Pickles require a very high amount of salt. 3. This is ok because it's part of the process used to make pickles.

What I'm not seeing there is how 3. cancels 1.

 

[CrayzeeCarl]

Regular people should be making their own god damn decisions regarding what to eat.

True, but it would be nice if not every single food item had gobs of sodium in it. The only way to eat a decent amount of food and be under the DRV for sodium is by making everything from scratch. That's not always possible/practical for most people.

 

[Futureman]

I think this point should be made.

If we didn't have a strong, centralized government in place, these huge food corporations wouldn't even be able to exist. They basically require each other to function. So if the government thinks these food companies are putting out products that are contributing to unhealthy lifestyles, then they should have a say in what they are making. And this is a debate basically, it's not like this bill has been passed.

 

[captmcblack]

Regular people should be making their own god damn decisions regarding what to eat.

So how is this legislature preventing them from doing so?
You can still choose between eating steamed broccoli or General Tso's Chicken. You can still choose between a few unsalted crackers or 2 bags of Spicy Jalapeno Cheetos. You can eat absolutely whatever amount of whatever you want.

It would just be less salty when prepared...and if it wasn't salty enough, you could add your own.

Again, there is literally no plausible way this is bad. This only helps people, and doesn't hurt them. If the government was like "we are restricting the foods you can eat", that'd be different. But that isn't what's happening here at all.

[EDIT: @Gaborn, yes the bigass megacorps can afford to research how to make their food taste similar with different compositions. But it's the bigass megacorps in the first place that are putting all of these terrible things in large amounts into the processed foods they sell. The little burger shack on the corner isn't going to go out of business because they have to use less salt in their patties.]

 

[adamsappel]

ITT, we learn Gaborn doesn't know what brine is.

 

[Yaweee]

So how is this legislature preventing them from doing so?
You can still choose between eating steamed broccoli or General Tso's Chicken. You can still choose between a few unsalted crackers or 2 bags of Spicy Jalapeno Cheetos. You can eat absolutely whatever amount of whatever you want.

It would just be less salty when prepared...and if it wasn't salty enough, you could add your own.

Again, there is literally no plausible way this is bad. This only helps people, and doesn't hurt them. If the government was like "we are restricting the foods you can eat", that'd be different. But that isn't what's happening here at all.

Adding salt after the fact is rather different than adding salt during the preparation of the food. It determines whether the you end up with dissolved salt throughout the food or big chunks of it sticking to the exterior. It makes a huge difference in how things taste.

 

[Gaborn]

ITT, we learn Gaborn doesn't know what brine is.

I know exactly what brine is. What I'm NOT seeing is how the presence of brine eliminates the "badness" that is high salt content. Either high salt content is bad, or it is not bad. I could say that the FDA apparently does not know what "alfredo sauce" is.

 

[The Librarian]

Yes it should, but they need to be given the information to make an informed choice. I would kill for legislation that forces restaurants to have nutritional info right on the menus, and I think that is a much more elegant and smart solution than this.

If I'm not mistaken, the healthcare bill does that.

 

[mAcOdIn]

I guess that would be fine, if they weren't being supported by a healthcare system that is funded by tax payers. But as they are, and as making people eat healthier put less strain on that system, I'm all for government restrictions.

And it begins in the US! Woohoo, I was all jealous of the UK and other countries banning things for the sake of the tax payer, but now we can finally have it too.


Hyperbole aside, it's fucking salt not Uranium, if you want some more put some on there, I don't see the big deal. I think it tastes better after the fact anyways.

And besides, the whole thing about processed foods is that people really can't choose, they get to choose from what the industry offers not from what they would like to choose from. So I don't really care if they regulate that industry. So long as the government doesn't start tracking how many times I buy salt at the supermarket and trying to control what I do with it I'm fine.

 

[Davidion]

It's a shitty measure in philosophy. The government should be forcing better informing and education of customers, not actually regulating content.

 

[markatisu]

This. Also, I don't think many people here realize how much salt there is in everything we eat. Especially if you eat prepared food, it's really astounding how much salt you can hide away in food. A lot of times, there just really isn't anything you can do about it.

Plus, excess salt consumption can lead to heart disease and kidney stones. How can this not be a good thing? If you want to add your own salt, keep a salt shaker with you.

Exactly, I guess nobody actually reads the back of boxes or the cans of soup to see the insane amount of sodium.

 

[Walshicus]

Salt is a required part of making french fries not suck ass.

Only because adding a tonne of salt is cheaper than making a decent portion of chips.

This is a fantastic move as it's phased over a decade. If you still crave salt you can always add it when eating - you can't exactly take it away though, can you?

 

[Gaborn]

Exactly, I guess nobody actually reads the back of boxes or the cans of soup to see the insane amount of sodium.

Like Lipton's soups, that always tastes VERY salty to me. Although, at 670 mg it's still less than a dill pickle. Or Ramen. That's basically the DEFINITION of salty, isn't it? oh, wait, 861 mg? Still less than a dill pickle...

Seriously: anyone want to give an example of a salty food?

 

[kame-sennin]

Should have been done for sugar instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM&playnext_from=TL&videos=wZIN9Y4upEo

 

[Shanadeus]

This sounds like a great initiative, wish they could put pressure on fastfood manufacturer to decrease fat and sugar content as well.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Source

Ugh, this kind of thing bothers me on some level. Really? We have to legally restrict salt content now?

It's for the good of national security. Need to be fit to fight!

 

[Zoltrix]

I'm for this. I've been trying really hard to cut down on my sodium-intake but that damn thing is everywhere and in huge quantities. I think I read somewhere that the average American eats 10x the required daily amount. What I've ended up doing is just eating less pretty much. For stuff like fries and whatnot the consumer should be okay with just adding their own table salt.

 

[Panda1]

It's a shitty measure in philosophy. The government should be forcing better informing and education of customers, not actually regulating content.

and when it tries for twenty odd years and fails what then?

 

[Davidion]

and when it tries for twenty odd years and fails what then?

Do a better job.

 

[SS4Gogita]

I'm for this. I've been trying really hard to cut down on my sodium-intake but that damn thing is everywhere and in huge quantities. I think I read somewhere that the average American eats 10x the required daily amount. What I've ended up doing is just eating less pretty much. For stuff like fries and whatnot the consumer should be okay with just adding their own table salt.

Pretty much exactly what I was going to say, even about trying to restrict sodium.

 

[markatisu]

Like Lipton's soups, that always tastes VERY salty to me. Although, at 670 mg it's still less than a dill pickle. Or Ramen. That's basically the DEFINITION of salty, isn't it? oh, wait, 861 mg? Still less than a dill pickle...

Seriously: anyone want to give an example of a salty food?

So what you are saying is do not eat dill pickles, got it :lol