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FEMA Dropped The Ball

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pnjtony

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Head of FEMA Denies Knowledge of Victims in Super Dome

Mike Brown, head of FEMA was just featured, moments ago (9/1, 6:45 pm), on The Abrams Report on MSNBC.
Brown was asked: "But what about the convention center? We saw some very graphic images coming from out of there, these are not people that just missed one meal or two, these are people saying officials told us to go here, there is no food, no water, is that true?"

Brown responded: "I don't know whether officals told them to go there or not, but I will tell you very candidly, we learned about the convention center today, being the federal government. We learned today that there are 3,000 people there."

Comment: The federal government only learned TODAY that there were people in the Super Dome? The media covered the fact on MONDAY that people were being sent to the Super Dome to seek cover, and has been reported on ever since. As a matter of fact, the Miami Herald reported on Sunday, before the Hurricane even hit, that the Super Dome would be used as shelter.

How could our federal government only learn TODAY that these people were there? This rescue effort is a national disgrace, and Mike Brown should be ashamed of himself.
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http://www.newshounds.us/2005/09/01/head_of_fema_denies_knowledge_of_victims_in_super_dome.php

Kind of insane huh?

I wonder if after they get a better idea of the bodycount, and if the count is higher than 9/11 if we'll wage a war on nature. I say that jokingly, but I honestly wonder if we'll throw nearly as much money at securing coastal cities as we do terror and protecting the homeland.
 
Bush looking for foreign aid.
bush.jpg


"and if the count is higher than 9/11 if we'll wage a war on nature."

We already are. Remember global warming?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
 
Thank this administration for cutting FEMA's budget along with the rest of the federal govt. so we could get our tax cuts. Boy, I'm sure glad that I have that extra money now that all of these people are dead.
 
Can we change the thread title to Bush bashing thread #2451? ... I'm starting to get them confused.

I don't know what FEMA's problem is ... they seem to get a 500 mile wide category 4 hurricane every few years .. you'd think they'd have it down pat by now.
 
ToxicAdam said:
Can we change the thread title to Bush bashing thread #2451? ... I'm starting to get them confused.

I don't know what FEMA's problem is ... they seem to get a 500 mile wide category 4 hurricane every few years .. you'd think they'd have it down pat by now.
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So how would you categorize the response so far, ToxicAdam? A-ok?
 
I would call the storm and its effects unprecedented and overwhelming. It's not like people aren't trying .. its just difficult. There isn't a manual for something like this.

But its easy to sit on your drunk ass and criticise people trying to solve dire problems. That seems to be the only thing that is working like it always has.
 
ToxicAdam said:
Can we change the thread title to Bush bashing thread #2451? ... I'm starting to get them confused.

I don't know what FEMA's problem is ... they seem to get a 500 mile wide category 4 hurricane every few years .. you'd think they'd have it down pat by now.
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Umm...did I mention Bush? Let's change your name to ToxicBob cause it's obviously the same thing.
 
ToxicAdam said:
I don't know what FEMA's problem is ... they seem to get a 500 mile wide category 4 hurricane every few years .. you'd think they'd have it down pat by now.
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Dear Leader choosing to hire a former estate planning lawyer with zero experience in disaster planning to head the agency may have something to do with "FEMA's problem".
 
What happened was the authorities on the ground (national guard? local police?) started moving people to the Convention Center, which is a short distance from the Superdome, when the Superdome became untenable.

My guess is FEMA came to the Superdome afterwards and was not notified of this decision.. Its just further proof of the fact that when you mix the bureaucracy of federal agencies, national guard, red cross, city police and local government, and take away major channels of communication, you're in for one big clusterfuck.

relevant link:
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/11848
 
ToxicAdam said:
I would call the storm and its effects unprecedented and overwhelming. It's not like people aren't trying .. its just difficult. There isn't a manual for something like this.

But its easy to sit on your drunk ass and criticise people trying to solve dire problems. That seems to be the only thing that is working like it always has.
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You're right dude. I've been sitting on my ass, drunk all day.
 
ToxicAdam said:
I would call the storm and its effects unprecedented and overwhelming. It's not like people aren't trying .. its just difficult. There isn't a manual for something like this.
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There's not? One of the most potentially diastrous scenario that FEMA could encounter, and there's no plan? Great planning!

Everyone in the damn country knows that there are about five or six "worst case" diaster scenarios in which FEMA could, and would be expected to, be around and make a real big difference. They are:

1) Hurricane hitting New Orleans dead on.
2) Major California earthquake.
3) Dirty bomb in a major city.
4) Small suitcase nuclear bomb detonated in a major city.
5) Chemical weapons attack in a major city.

Among a couple of others, including massive flooding of certain rivers. I wonder how well they would of reacted to any of the above scenarios, I bet it would have been equally as dismal, although they would be able to prey on simpletons if it was a terrorist attack like they usually do.
 
Fragamemnon said:
There's not? One of the most potentially diastrous scenario that FEMA could encounter, and there's no plan? Great planning!

Everyone in the damn country knows that there are about five or six "worst case" diaster scenarios in which FEMA could, and would be expected to, be around and make a real big difference. They are:

1) Hurricane hitting New Orleans dead on.
2) Major California earthquake.
3) Dirty bomb in a major city.
4) Small suitcase nuclear bomb detonated in a major city.
5) Chemical weapons attack in a major city.

Among a couple of others, including massive flooding of certain rivers. I wonder how well they would of reacted to any of the above scenarios, I bet it would have been equally as dismal, although they would be able to prey on simpletons if it was a terrorist attack like they usually do.
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Frag, this is hard work. There are a lot of good people, working hard. It's hard work.
 
WedgeX said:
Wait..so Convention Center = Superdome?
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Yeah, I'm fairly certain that the Superdome and NO Convention Center are two seperate buildings. Hooray for blogs [not] doing their homework!
 
ToxicAdam said:
I would call the storm and its effects unprecedented and overwhelming. It's not like people aren't trying .. its just difficult. There isn't a manual for something like this.

But its easy to sit on your drunk ass and criticise people trying to solve dire problems. That seems to be the only thing that is working like it always has.
Click to expand...

You mean people who are payed good money, whose sole existance is to plan and work out solution for these scenarios before they occur. And yes, there should be a rough manual, with respect to the large scale effort, as opposed to what you may think.
 
xsarien said:
Yeah, I'm fairly certain that the Superdome and NO Convention Center are two seperate buildings. Hooray for blogs [not] doing their homework!
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Yup. They got all worked up because they didn't know what they were talking about.
 
I'm a fairly big Bush supporter and even I can admit that the response has been shitty from the get go. It is absolutely inexcusable that there hasn't been a single drop of supplies anywhere in the city. There are 25,000+ people sitting outside the convention center because they were told to go there who are dying of thirst.

If anything it goes to show have piss poor some of Bush's appointees have been - I'm looking right at you Mr. FEMA director.

And I'm not even going to get into the problems people are facing on the MS coast.

There's no fucking excuse.
 
ToxicAdam said:
E-punditry. The sport of anti-social eggheads everywhere.
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Anti-intellectual groupthink coupled with a sense of relativism that allows priase of Dear Leader even at the height of his incompentence. The dual-bladed dynamo that powers the mind of a Bush apologist.
 
The FEMA that the american public knew during the Andrew Hurricane in 92 is no longer established.

FEMA has be sucked up by the Department of Homeland Security, starting in 2001 to present day. The agency has no direct postition in the cabinet of the president and since Homeland Security direct stance on nationwide saftey is the deterance of terrorism, not natural disastors.

The only FEMA that is present is the Statewide FEMA supported programs.

President Bush and his policy's have handcuffed FEMA into preventing and or doing the job needed to remidy the situation, wherever it may be.

We do not have a Military at home that can be mobilized and give the support needed because after all, they are fighting a war.

Stretched too thin and left vulnerable, Hopefully next time we elect a president, things like this will be the forefront of the election, rather then pooslinging propoganda.

If this isnt a call for impeachment and replacement of the government the american people chose, then I dont know what is, and it is certianly not getting you cock sucked in the oval office.
 
Do not blame someone who in all reality, cannot do anything to help.

http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion//index.php?ntid=52563&ntpid=1

That will give you a good rundown on how President Bush dismantled FEMA and there ability to help in natural disaster relief.

This year it was announced that FEMA is to "officially" lose the disaster preparedness function that it has had since its creation. The move is a death blow to an agency that was already on life support. In fact, FEMA employees have been directed not to become involved in disaster preparedness functions, since a new directorate (yet to be established) will have that mission.
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If anything it goes to show have piss poor some of Bush's appointees have been - I'm looking right at you Mr. FEMA director.
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The administration sets the tone. Condi has been busy shopping for thousand-dollar-shoes and yukking it up at Broadway shows the last few days. Obviously there's no sense of urgency to get the whole cabinet involved, maybe have the Secretary of State working with other nations on aid initiatives and such (nah, we've turned away aid offers from Canada and Jamaica).

Of course, FEMA has been warning the administration about this stuff for three years, the result is that we cut the funds to fix the levees and other problems. You'd think with all these homeland security initiatives that we'd be more prepared for such disasters. I'd hate to think what will happen if we get any terrorists setting off dirty or chemical bombs in major cities. We should all be ashamed at this incompetent administation for not securing our nation, wasting our money on an oil war, and sending our national guard overseas where they do not belong.

W is the worst president ever, and we are the world's biggest fools for re-electing him. We're learning a sad lesson these days.
 
beermonkey@tehbias said:
W is the worst president ever, and we are the world's biggest fools for re-electing him. We're learning a sad lesson these days.
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WE don't have anything to learn, the people who voted for Bush do. But yes, Bush is the worst President ever.

9/11, Iraq War, polarizing the nation with biased religious propaganda among various other things, not being able to get anything done during his second term, and now poor preparations and planning for a natural disaster... all under his watch. I can only hope that history will NOT be kind to him, for the sake of the future's well-being.
 
WE don't have anything to learn, the people who voted for Bush do.
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Not me buddy. I voted for Libertarians for 20 years, and then in 2004 was smart enough to realize that I had to vote for Kerry. I held my nose, but it was the right thing.
 
Good man.

I really hope someone can dig up some info -- ANYTHING -- that catches him literally plotting to lie about the Iraq war. What the fuck do you think he, Cheney and Rove talked about before the war? The happy horseshit about how the Iraqis will be liberated after they get rid of Saddam? How gas prices will go down for Americans (haha yeah right)? No. That, and the planning that went into the poor excuse for a UN presentation on the dangers of Iraq. How "curveball" came about. Why they believed him. How they got away with running from so many safeguards and rushing into war. You cannot tell me that they didn't do something illegal, because they did, and they need to be held accountable. All of them.

The entire fucking administration needs to be overthrown.
 
Anarchy in a major american city in this day of age is the biggest tragedy this county has faced since the civil war.

The people that call this there country have turned there back on the government and honestly that is far worse then anything any forigner could every inflict on the american public.
 
Diablos said:
Good man.

I really hope someone can dig up some info -- ANYTHING -- that catches him literally plotting to lie about the Iraq war. What the fuck do you think he, Cheney and Rove talked about before the war? The happy horseshit about how the Iraqis will be liberated after they get rid of Saddam? How gas prices will go down for Americans (haha yeah right)? No. That, and the planning that went into the poor excuse for a UN presentation on the dangers of Iraq. How "curveball" came about. Why they believed him. How they got away with running from so many safeguards and rushing into war. You cannot tell me that they didn't do something illegal, because they did, and they need to be held accountable. All of them.

The entire fucking administration needs to be overthrown.
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Hasn't it already been established, that the whole Powell thing was a lie? He almost pretty much admitted it. This goes for the other admin members. Doesn't really matter.
 
Koopa said:
The FEMA that the american public knew during the Andrew Hurricane in 92 is no longer established.

FEMA has be sucked up by the Department of Homeland Security, starting in 2001 to present day. The agency has no direct postition in the cabinet of the president and since Homeland Security direct stance on nationwide saftey is the deterance of terrorism, not natural disastors.

The only FEMA that is present is the Statewide FEMA supported programs.

President Bush and his policy's have handcuffed FEMA into preventing and or doing the job needed to remidy the situation, wherever it may be.

We do not have a Military at home that can be mobilized and give the support needed because after all, they are fighting a war.

Stretched too thin and left vulnerable, Hopefully next time we elect a president, things like this will be the forefront of the election, rather then pooslinging propoganda.

If this isnt a call for impeachment and replacement of the government the american people chose, then I dont know what is, and it is certianly not getting you cock sucked in the oval office.
Click to expand...


something like 60% of the their national guard was available
 
The full circumstances and conseqences of this tragedy will not be clear for months or years. What is immediately clear is that every level of government has failed in its most basic purpose: to secure the life, liberty, and property of the citizenry.

The city of New Orleans had no good evac plan, no set of guidelines for when the order should be given, no real plans for dealing with a worst-case scenario.

The state of Louisiana had no good plan for supporting one of its most important cities in this contingency, no effective way of directing funds to clean things up, not even a plan for assessing damage in the aftermath!

The surrounding states are equally as guilty for the same reasons, but lucky that "only" Gulfport and Biloxi were destroyed rather than their respective primary cultural centers.

The Army Corps of Engineers were, at least on a command level, uninterested in the bleedingly obvious problems the further settling of the city was causing and basically solved it by building the levees higher.

FEMA, though admittedly not in its prime, failed in many ways that have not yet become clear.

The Legislature, by approving the cuts in FEMA and its reduction in scope, failed to show a good understanding of the range and scope of true threats to the nation and its citizens.

And, yes, the Bush administration continues to demonstrate a deep lack of seriousness on any matters that can't have a positive political spin put on them. This is the culmination of a failure of imagination and of prudence on the part of many of the administration's principal actors.
 
Phoenix said:
Not only are they not the same, they are a significant distance from each other.
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Yeah, I heard it's about 8-10 city blocks away (on NPR earlier). I don't really see how people are confusing the two buildings.
 
Koopa said:
Anarchy in a major american city in this day of age is the biggest tragedy this county has faced since the civil war.

The people that call this there country have turned there back on the government and honestly that is far worse then anything any forigner could every inflict on the american public.
Click to expand...

Oh and don't worry- our enemies are watching. This serves as a very dangerous statement to our enemies everywhere. If we can't maintain law and order on our OWN soil, what will give people confidence that we can do it on theirs. If we can't come up with a plan to repair our own cities and get them up and running in short time, why continue to lie to the American public about the "final throes" of insurgent resistance.

And people this is a natural disaster... imagine if it was a chemical, biological or nuclear attack. This is just a peek at what any of those would be like.
 
cloudwalking said:
Yeah, I heard it's about 8-10 city blocks away (on NPR earlier). I don't really see how people are confusing the two buildings.
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Yes, this is why when people say that folks should travel from the relative security of the convention center and get to the superdome I wonder if they realize what they are telling these 10-15k people to do!
 
Well at least Bush can't be re-elected..two terms in a row with something horrible happening in the 2nd year of each term. WW3 in 2009 if he could be re-elected again.

Or whatever, if he took office 1/01. I forget.
 
To be fair, how many times in history has a major city sank? Also, this is America. Everybody was cocky. Ppl think "this can't happen in America' because we're the most advanced nation on the planet, especially when it comes to this kind of thing. Obviously, the anarchy that rules New Orleans shows that we're not above nature. Finally, wtf were teh French thinking when they built a city below sea level between 2 major bodies of water near an ocean that's prone to many, many huricane attacks?
 
Not saying that FEMA didn't drop the ball, but I really would love to see an investigation (after the crisis has passed) into how the chain of command was passed from local to state to federal, because it really seems as though nobody who is trying to coordinate relief is talking to anybody else trying to coordinate relief. You've got different spokesmen directly contradicting each other, you've got boots on the streets directing survivors to hellholes that no one with any power do to anything about it knows about, you've got the fucking media serving as interdepartment communications tool. One of the lessons the military supposedly learned in Gulf War 1 was the need for the different branches to talk and coordinate with one another. Why that lesson hasn't passed down into the civilian protection agencies, I'll never know.
 
Squirrel Killer said:
Not saying that FEMA didn't drop the ball, but I really would love to see an investigation (after the crisis has passed) into how the chain of command was passed from local to state to federal, because it really seems as though nobody who is trying to coordinate relief is talking to anybody else trying to coordinate relief. You've got different spokesmen directly contradicting each other, you've got boots on the streets directing survivors to hellholes that no one with any power do to anything about it knows about, you've got the fucking media serving as interdepartment communications tool. One of the lessons the military supposedly learned in Gulf War 1 was the need for the different branches to talk and coordinate with one another. Why that lesson hasn't passed down into the civilian protection agencies, I'll never know.
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Because it costs alot of money to do so, and until there's a disaster of this scale, they have little incentive to spend it.
 
909er said:
Finally, wtf were teh French thinking when they built a city below sea level between 2 major bodies of water near an ocean that's prone to many, many huricane attacks?
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It wasn't below sea level when they built it, they didn't have the historical knowledge as to how dangerous the hurricane threat was, and if they hadn't built it, someone else would've. There's always a port at the mouth of a major river.
 
909er said:
Because it costs alot of money to do so, and until there's a disaster of this scale, they have little incentive to spend it.
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I'm talking about a PowerPoint chain of command chart and a communications system that interoperates between departments. It's not a moon shot.
 
Because it costs alot of money to do so, and until there's a disaster of this scale, they have little incentive to spend it.
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By this argument, we should do absolutely nothing to prepare for dirty bombs, chemical assaults, and any terrorist attack other than plane hijackings.

Yet we can spend $300 billion fighting the oil war while ignoring Al Quaeda. And we can pretend that we are chasing 9/11 terrorists, until that lie crumbles. Then we can pretend that we are stopping a tyrant that poses a risk to us, until that lie crumbles. Then we can pretend that we are building democracy (a damned fool stupid thing to do), until that lie crumbles.

But the message you want to send to the American people is that it doesn't make sense to prepare for likely disasters until after they happen. Nice.

If we truly can't afford it, we have to admit it to ourselves. Fine. But we also have to stop burning money on idiotic shit like the Iraq war and giving subsidies to people who buy SUVs over 6,000 lb (yes we still do this inane crap).
 
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