Not wrong though
FFXV's future updates adjust chapters, add cutscenes, add playable characters, more
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Not wrong though
I really liked what they were trying to achieve with the newspaper reveal, but it made 0 sense since they were only a few miles outside of the city.
Your idea would improve this part considerably.
I would also like them to add more moments where Noct gets affected by these events as you explore the open world.
Right now it can be weird going from the newspaper scene to larking about fishing, while this dissonance can't be removed entirely due to the nature of the game and how they chose to structure the story it would definitely add more weight if we had a little more reaction every now and then.
Nothing about that post is edgy.
RevolverRoden
Member
Been playing Ffxv without going on forums for a bit now and I'm not sure what you guys are on.
People saying shit like "early access" and "unfinished"? Thats literally the last thing that would come to mind after playing the game. I guess its cute and edgy to say that though.
People saying shit like "early access" and "unfinished"? Thats literally the last thing that would come to mind after playing the game. I guess its cute and edgy to say that though.
Mister Megative
Banned
Here's something else to consider: adding an additional scene with Ravus in Chapter 13, even more than one, doesn't change the story of the game one bit. Like, at all. Hell, the big gameplay change appears to be just increasing magical power in that chapter. Aside from that, everything is postgame content, and outside of the DLC, it's all free.
I mean, I'm reading all this hyperbole about "early access" and "we were beta testers" and I'm wondering just what in the actual fuck. CD Projekt Red worked continuously to refine the Witcher 3. Hell, if I'm not mistaken they even changed elements of Triss's story. We PRAISED them for this. Why is everyone shitting all over SE? I'm not comparing the Witcher 3 to FFXV, everyone has different opinions. I personally didn't care for the Witcher 3. But for God's sake. The reaction to this is just.....I can't even.
I mean, I'm reading all this hyperbole about "early access" and "we were beta testers" and I'm wondering just what in the actual fuck. CD Projekt Red worked continuously to refine the Witcher 3. Hell, if I'm not mistaken they even changed elements of Triss's story. We PRAISED them for this. Why is everyone shitting all over SE? I'm not comparing the Witcher 3 to FFXV, everyone has different opinions. I personally didn't care for the Witcher 3. But for God's sake. The reaction to this is just.....I can't even.
Pretty much.
CrichtonKicks
Member
The plot really doesn't support the story they want to tell. It doesn't make sense that there is this huge invasion, a giant city almost totally destroyed, etc and the outside world is still going on like nothing matters and Noct and company are focused on seeing Chocobos.
They needed something a little bit lower stakes. Like maybe Noct resents being forced into an arranged marriage and someday having to become King so he and his buddies run away and do some soul searching only to get drawn in over their heads into something else.
Reread Tabata's messsage. The story stuff includes changes throughout the second half of the game, not post-game. Ravus is an example, not the sum total of all story changes.
RevolverRoden
Member
I could be wrong but I think some people who just don't like the whole FFXV package for one reason or another (e.g. Not turn based, "j pop" etc) are just salty and forcing themselves to complain. Not saying some people don't have legitimate grievances but that's the vibe I'm getting from reading this and other ffxv threads.
That doesn't apply to the witcher because that game hit every single mass appeal checkbox and CD red can do no wrong after that.
To be fair, Witcher 3 still feels complete without the Triss scenes, and the stuff they added in with Triss was mostly because this was the THIRD game in a series of games and Triss-lovers who liked her in two prior games wanted more payoff for their initial investment. It was more of a good thing. If Witcher 3 was a stand-alone, I doubt they outcry would have been so vocal.
FF15 is a stand-alone game and that's precisely the problem... it feels like it's not. It needs a score of other material to fill in the gaps and holes its story lacks or fails to convey.
Nobody is "confused" by Triss's actions or behavior in Witcher 3; they just wanted more of a character they already loved. But FF15's narrative is in dire need of having a few holes plugged and character motivations properly explained.
All they needed to do to make it work is delay the attack till the second half of the game.
First half: open world road trip
Second half: linear focus post attack
..Sounds like Square-Enix being Square-Enix.
When was the last time they didn't do this? A Realm Reborn doesn't count: they had to redo the mess that was XIV.
This announcement really soured my confidence in VIIR. I now wonder how they're going to fuck that up and botch somewhere, too. :/
CrichtonKicks
Member
That works.
Sumio Mondo
Member
I for one am so fucking glad I have waiting on this game and not given in to the hype. Seems like the dev team were forced against their will to release it sooner than they were ready to, either that or just went past the agreed time. Either way, at least they're attempting to fix the issues players have, sucks for those who have already beaten it and feel the damage is already done. I had heard reports of there being so much happening off screen or the story not being well told. Hopefully they show what the heck happened to the likes of
I remember them patching in some cutscenes into the Opening since that was really confusing originally? Is the opening any better now?
Cor, the lancer lady and Iris who all seem to drop off the face of the Earth, people are saying.
I remember them patching in some cutscenes into the Opening since that was really confusing originally? Is the opening any better now?
Mister Megative
Banned
Just did. There's no context, but it doesn't sound like anything game-changing to me, at all.
Mister Megative
Banned
Aranea shows up randomly at night to help you fight. Iris and Cor become demon hunters in the endgame.
CrichtonKicks
Member
He expressly mentions adding cutscenes to the second half of the game. Not post game and not only Chapter 13.
Whether it's game changing depends on how important the story is to you or how much they add. But since we don't have the answers it's silly too downplay it by saying it's only Ravus or only Chapter 13 since that wasn't what was said.
King Gilga
Member
Wow what a mess.
Looks like I'll be playing the better game in a year or two or so when I buy it or the goty version for like £10.
Thanks square, I guess.
Looks like I'll be playing the better game in a year or two or so when I buy it or the goty version for like £10.
Thanks square, I guess.
ScientificPizza
Banned
what does short term mean tho? weeks or months?
i'm afraid of holding off for too long because i might lose all momentum
i'm afraid of holding off for too long because i might lose all momentum
This game really is a big mess. I guess they didn't really finish it and were planning on updating it like that from the beginning. I'm happy I'm done with it.
This sure is edgy, but not cute at all.
CrichtonKicks
Member
After seeing how the Kingsglaive and Omen scenes were awkwardly inserted in the first patch I wonder if the team was so close to the game that they never realized they missing key information for the player. Like were they mentally inserting existing knowledge from old versions of the game and Versus and didn't realize how much info and context new players would be missing until almost the last minute?
This is how I feel. I'm 38hrs in up to Chapter 5, since reading this I will be holding off until the short term update is out. Love the game though.
Plenty to play in the meantime. Got digital deluxe so it's not leaving my Pro anyway ;-)
gablekevin
Neo Member
Yep you hit the nail on the head with this. The Witcher 3 is a much better game 1.5 years later and was a much better game as soon as they fixed Geralts running not long after release. But that doesnt mean when i played the game initially it was a pile of shit.
Im having a ton of fun with FFXV so far and maybe these changes will make things much better but im not going to wait months and months in the hopes that every single little problem is fixed im going to enjoy it now and be happy for people that want to wait but the amount of hyperbole being thrown around about these proposed changes is like some No Mans Sky delay death threats level crazy.
Also can we as an internet whole stop calling things that arent good/great a piece of shit things can be not good or great and not automatically be the worst ever.
I really like that they named chapter 3 "The open world" because I've been roaming for over 20 hours now, and loving every bit of it! I hear the story is a mess, but the amount of content (hunts, side quests and dungeons) available in chapter 3 means I am in no rush to progress with the story.
Looking forward to having a more cohesive story being told with the following updates
Looking forward to having a more cohesive story being told with the following updates
That Omen scene has literally no relevance whatsoever in the plot and narrative of the game, it's really weird. Noctis never displays fear agaisnt the Empire but for some reason had a nightmare about it. It never even comes up as a topic or plot device.
AkirraKrylon
Member
It happens right after you get the
news about Jared
killing a lot of people he had a relationship with, be it big or small.
Conkerkid11
Member
Problem is that doing any of that content makes you overleveled for the main story. Most RPGs will encourage some side-questing to catch up to the recommended level for the main quest, but this game heavily discourages it.I really like that they named chapter 3 "The open world" because I've been roaming for over 20 hours now, and loving every bit of it! I hear the story is a mess, but the amount of content (hunts, side quests and dungeons) available in chapter 3 means I am in no rush to progress with the story.
Looking forward to having a more cohesive story being told with the following updates
CrichtonKicks
Member
I really think open world games need a "Completionist" difficulty level that basically mandates that most sidequests need to be done to keep up with the main story.
But
Jared wasn't established as a character to care about when he dies.
I literally was confused who died when that little kid and Iris were sad. My first thought was "Who's Jared? He has like, two lines in the game..
I literally was confused who died when that little kid and Iris were sad. My first thought was "Who's Jared? He has like, two lines in the game..
That's fucking bad storytelling and character development. It's probably the earliest red flag you can see as a player that some story bits got gutted.
Eh...I dunno.
The idea of Noctis being naturally more powerful that 95% of the populous or wildlife isn't something all that outlandish.
Plus with how some of these story fights go, especially in chapter 13, your level is going to have very little to do with your survivability.
And while it's nice that they're updating all this story stuff, they need to do a lot of work on how interactions work in the world. The context sensitive stuff breaks nearly every god damn time a button prompt comes up, sometimes to the degree of having to restart the game in order for them to appear at all.
I guess that's the angle they went for, but it falls completely flat since never again the game acknowledges this notion. Plus it's a "retro fit" of the trailer since Regis is the one having nightmares of Noctis struggling against the Empire.
Edit: It's also important how irrelevant
Jared's death
Me too. Unless the game ends like MGSV, then yeah, but even MGSV had the game elements that I would consider complete and amazing.
formasymphonic
Member
2016: A patched game is eventually good, but a rushed game is temporarily bad*.
*
depends on the patches tho
Moon_frogger
Member
So I don't get why people are complaining. They are adding new game plus, god mode, some type of low level run mode, limited time boss fights, extra bosses, new player characters, likely new areas, new spells, weapons etc.
My point is they are making the game perfect for multiple playthroughs, speed runs, challenge runs etc. This is ever Final fantasy lovers wet dream. So what if you've already beaten it. If you liked it, you'll likely want to play it again with all these incredible additions. If you didn't like, it seriously doubt a few new cut scenes are going to change your opinion of the story. Long term, free game changing updates? how in the hell is this bad?
My point is they are making the game perfect for multiple playthroughs, speed runs, challenge runs etc. This is ever Final fantasy lovers wet dream. So what if you've already beaten it. If you liked it, you'll likely want to play it again with all these incredible additions. If you didn't like, it seriously doubt a few new cut scenes are going to change your opinion of the story. Long term, free game changing updates? how in the hell is this bad?
the_sun_king
Member
Well, then... I guess I don't need to hurry through this game then (I'm on chapter 5 atm).
AkirraKrylon
Member
Oh I agree completely. I was just saying that's probably what they were shooting for.
That's sort of apples and oranges. MGSV had a fantastic game engine that allowed for an unprecedented amount of user choice in how missions were completed; It's the narrative elements that were gutted and sloppily strewn about. FF15's world breaks a little bit any time you do anything and has a lot of design choices that just end up wasting the players time. I cannot believe, CANNOT BELIEVE that in a world where Skyrim has sold 20 million copies, FF15 does not have a wait system.
FF15 is a great framework for an open world engine. But it needs so much more work.
FF15-2 is probably going to be amazing though.
Astral Dog
Member
I will just play and watch the dlcutscenes on Youtube
The ffxv forums
I bet it's filled to the brim with spoilers though. Unless there's a specific spoiler-free thread?
FalsettoVibe
Member
CrichtonKicks
Member
I think it's a balance issue. If you can just skip nights then you should pretty much just horde your XP and wait until you stay at a high level hotel for the XP bonus. As-is, you are kind of forced to camp at night frequently until you get some levels under your belt.
But then the ability to wait if you select a night-only hunt feels like a cheap workaround that they didn't consider until too late.
No one's saying it's bad, but people are saying that it's a bad look. New challenges are great and all, but it's not addressing the very real problems the game has, it's just offering more of it. And to be honest, most of what they're offering isn't really that appetizing on a grand scale. Die hard fans are going to a lot out of this, but until this game hits PC in a year or two (seriously what Square?) I'm likely not going to see any of it.
To be perfectly honest, all of the post chapter 14 stuff in the game has been a huge pain, and it has more to do with the design of these areas and bosses than technical problems. I had such a fun time monster hunting earlier in the game, but there's just a moment where the switch happens and all of a sudden, even dungeon is a pixel hunt, every giant monster is in an environment barely big enough to fight it...it's a slog.
Cool, I'm okay with that. But then don't tie missions to time of date or weather because I cannot count on my hand and feet the amount of times I've driven to areas only to get there and be told "Well I guess we have 12 hours to kill, what do you wanna do?", or even better, take a rain mission in the morning, drive to the area, and have the rain stop on the way. That shit sucks every single god damn time.
And honestly, I think the gil constraints in the game do a pretty good job making it so that you don't want to use that 2x hotel. One of the pretty amazing things the game does is making you spend money regularly. I'm standing in front of the final boss and I have 1700 gil. In every final fantasy game I've played before this, I usually have somewhere between 3 and 5 million.
Keep in mind, the story isn't bad, it's full of holes. The overarching story they have is pretty good in the long run but it does such a poor job of telling it and you can see, clearly, obviously, where things were sliced out or truncated that the entire thing feels weird.
I was discussing it with a few friends the other day and we all had to get a refresher on who Revas even was, and how little sense his presence made considering what happened in Kingsglaive.
I've been comparing the story of this game to a high school play, because you can see what it's trying to do, it's pretty clear where it's going, but they seemingly didn't have enough players or had condense an entire Shakespeare epic into 2 periods so they could still get out by 2:30 when the bell rings.
It's not really that much of a trainwreck.
BossDarkseid
Member
That doesn't tend to happen (I think) so I doubt it.
Well, actually for the story stuff I'm not sure, but I'm also not sure they're going to make some separate version of the patch for some "Final Mix" version, unless they do make a separate SKU.
CrichtonKicks
Member
With the wait ability you wouldn't have to stay that often though. You can make $10k doing 3 hunts. It's a really nice tradeoff when you can literally double your XP.
I do like the system though- I think there are lot of really neat design decisions in FFXV. I like the XP system because it makes camping and lodging an interesting choice and ties in well with the game thematically. It also helps give the game a bit of "oh shit, it's getting dark, better get somewhere safe" in the early going.
It just breaks severely if you tie other events to the game clock.