Fighting Games Weekly | April 22-28 | Game of Throws - A Song of Salt and Fire(balls)

MThanded said:
I think I am done with fighting games altogether. Watched the stream this weekend and felt no hype at all. All gaming besides ios has pretty much gone out the window for me.

Need to figure out a way to sell my virtua stick high grade and my original street fighter 4 TE stick. I guess ebay is the best way to go. I doubt anyone will care about the stuff on craigslist.
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It's cool if fighting games aren't your thing anymore.

It is not cool that mobile gaming is the only thing that does it for you anymore. I cannot think of anything worse that could happen to my tastes as a gamer. I'm just getting mobile gaming out of my system now and I couldn't be happier.
 
Dahbomb said:
ChrisG won't get any cheers from the crowd. Anyone stomping his characters will be getting cheers particularly Norcal players.
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I forgot that the Russians were the only ones who could appreciate a good fight. :P
Dahbomb said:
WTF... to get the additional 12 characters you have to pay 20 bucks more!

HIGHWAY ROBBERY!!!
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Revelaitons costs more on Steam than RE6 right now. Capcom gotta get paid somehow, dawg.
 
Dahbomb said:
Just the game. Fucking ridiculous.

No my 10 on anyone aside from ChrisG winning.

ChrisG won't get any cheers from the crowd. Anyone stomping his characters will be getting cheers particularly Norcal players.
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Hmm, seeing all this discussion about the work put in to killing Chris G has me re-thinking things. The odds seem pretty against him winning since, literally, everyone's out for his head. I'll get back to you.
 
enzo_gt said:
It's cool if fighting games aren't your thing anymore.

It is not cool that mobile gaming is the only thing that does it for you anymore. I cannot think of anything worse that could happen to my tastes as a gamer. I'm just getting mobile gaming out of my system now and I couldn't be happier.
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I end up watching streams while playing mobile games.
 
Karsticles said:
Except it's not DLC, it's an unlock code.

If it were DLC, I would agree with you.
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Matters less to me how it's delivered when the budget is partitioned the same way. But I understand the anger.

Also the characters on disc were not complete IIRC, just whatever data they could throw on the disc at the time to save bandwidth costs (more of an issue on PSN where they're charged by bandwidth IIRC). Most of the characters were there, but they were not done from what I understand.
 
Horseress said:
When I bought Jill and Shumma, I downloaded two 100kb files. And they were $7 each one right?
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$5 each. I got the CE, so they came with it for me.

vulva said:
Is the unlock code already on the console or do you download it?

It's DLC
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The "C" stands for "Content". An unlock code is not content.

enzo_gt said:
Matters less to me how it's delivered when the budget is partitioned the same way. But I understand the anger.

Also the characters on disc were not complete IIRC, just whatever data they could throw on the disc at the time to save bandwidth costs (more of an issue on PSN where they're charged by bandwidth IIRC). Most of the characters were there, but they were not done from what I understand.
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I don't buy the "budgeting" argument when it's all made together. Saying "we budgeted this for DLC" just means "we decided to lock this out to make it DLC to help make more money". The on-disc characters for SFxT were completely done IIRC - people even unlocked and played them early. It was the MvC3 characters that were not entirely done (I think).

If a company comes out and says "We budgeted for all of the characters to be DLC", does that really make it acceptable for you? It doesn't for me. What if half are budgeted for DLC?

To me, so long as it is on the disk, I consider it mine when I buy it. If it was made during game development and is not on the disk, I consider that highly circumstantial. It may or may not be acceptable to me. Basically, to me, DLC should be expansions upon a game, not parts of a game specifically cut out and held back for monetary purposes. That's what I'm generally willing to pay for, with exceptions.
 
Paying $70 on fucking PC for a year old game is ridiculous to me. Capcom trying its best to milk the game for every penny it's worth.

Uh.. 12 characters for $20 is still the cheapest per character price of character DLC all gen IIRC...
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70 to get the full roster for a year old game on PC is fucking expensive as hell. AE is $20 for everything.

I actually wanted to try out the game with the new patch that went up yesterday but now I won't fork over that much cash.
 
enzo_gt said:
Also the characters on disc were not complete IIRC, just whatever data they could throw on the disc at the time to save bandwidth costs (more of an issue on PSN where they're charged by bandwidth IIRC). Most of the characters were there, but they were not done from what I understand.
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I can verify that all locked characters on the SFxT disc were 100% complete and received no changes upon the unlock's release.
 
Seeing Dahbomb get mad over the SFxT pricing stuff just brings me back to those threads and all the arguments in them. I was never really mad at the characters being on the disc. I was more mad at how they were time-locked for the fucking VITA version and how you couldn't cherry-pick the characters you wanted.
Kadey said:
After Final Round, Champ's world was falling apart around him. That loss really did something to him because it was not close. Even Shady or whoever was streaming at the time said it completely shattered him. Imagine putting all your time and resources into someone or something just to let the final result slip away from you. He streamed his training sessions, he talked about various matchups, he read up and watched videos, and he played hundreds of matches a week.
As people say, Champ always arrives early to a venue. He is very dedicated. But all of that is for naught as you lose to someone who plays a dozen other games and from a public standpoint doesn't really have as much as knowledge as you do about the game.
Now after a month or so later, Champ had the time to use Morrigan himself on a more serious level to see how she works and has started a campaign to get other people to use her so everybody can get an idea of how to fight her. They have done their homework and game time is soon. This is more important than EVO. EVO is neutral grounds and has a party atmosphere. NCR is your home turf, you are the king of your domain. You cannot let someone else come in and take what is yours. Your people will root for you. Everything is to go your way. Losing is not an option.
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I read this in good ol' JR's voice.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";55048720]NCR will be Champ's grand return. Norcal won't let the demon through.[/QUOTE]
You still haven't learned your lesson, I see.
 
Professor Beef said:
Seeing Dahbomb get mad over the SFxT pricing stuff just brings me back to those threads and all the arguments in them. I was never really mad at the characters being on the disc. I was more mad at how they were time-locked for the fucking VITA version and how you couldn't cherry-pick the characters you wanted.
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The time locking took it to a whole new level of stupidity. WHY?
 
I don't give a fuck if the characters are on disc or whatever... I just think with such a long time passed and with the game being on Steam (which is known for discounts) the game should be available for under $40 with all the characters... just like it is on the consoles.
 
Dahbomb said:
Paying $70 on fucking PC for a year old game is ridiculous to me. Capcom trying its best to milk the game for every penny it's worth.


70 to get the full roster for a year old game on PC is fucking expensive as hell. AE is $20 for everything.

I actually wanted to try out the game with the new patch that went up yesterday but now I won't fork over that much cash.
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I just think complaining about pricing on PC platforms is kinda silly when the shit will go on sale and be cheaper than any console equivalent of the same amount of content, which at minimum would cost you $40. You can wait unless you want it that bad.
 
Smedwicks said:
It's been like that for a while. Did you really not know that?
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Not too long ago I saw SFxT for $20 on Steam and it was on my radar but I was waiting for the patch with the balance changes. Right now it's too expensive, I will maybe wait for the Steam Summer sale.
 
Karsticles said:
I don't buy the "budgeting" argument when it's all made together. Saying "we budgeted this for DLC" just means "we decided to lock this out to make it DLC to help make more money". The on-disc characters for SFxT were completely done IIRC - people even unlocked and played them early. It was the MvC3 characters that were not entirely done (I think).

If a company comes out and says "We budgeted for all of the characters to be DLC", does that really make it acceptable for you? It doesn't for me. What if half are budgeted for DLC?

To me, so long as it is on the disk, I consider it mine when I buy it. If it was made during game development and is not on the disk, I consider that highly circumstantial. It may or may not be acceptable to me. Basically, to me, DLC should be expansions upon a game, not parts of a game specifically cut out and held back for monetary purposes. That's what I'm generally willing to pay for, with exceptions.
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You and I are saying the same thing when it comes to budgeting. Those DLC characters were made to be sold to you separately from the start and ultimately it doesn't matter how they were going to be delivered to you, and it doesn't matter when publishers choose the most cost-effective method of delivery and you still have to pay for them no matter how they are delivered.

Also there's the whole thing with you only buying a license to certain content on the disc when you buy it, you don't literally now own every piece of content on the physical disc because you own the physical disc, but it's kinda muddy when you get into that and arguing against that is taking more issue with the DRM that's been present for years upon years.
 
Dahbomb said:
I don't give a fuck if the characters are on disc or whatever... I just think with such a long time passed and with the game being on Steam (which is known for discounts) the game should be available for under $40 with all the characters... just like it is on the consoles.
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I care. This stuff sets a precedent. We're in a generation where companies are trying to push blocked used games, always online, half of a game locked out via unlock codes, and pay-to-win schemes. I do not want games to go down that route further than they already have. I would rather see my hobby go down in flames than see those practices become rampant. SFxT was Capcom testing these things out to see how willing people are to bend over for their product. It's important to turn around and return the favor.

enzo_gt said:
You and I are saying the same thing when it comes to budgeting. Those DLC characters were made to be sold to you separately from the start and ultimately it doesn't matter how they were going to be delivered to you, and it doesn't matter when publishers choose the most cost-effective method of delivery and you still have to pay for them no matter how they are delivered.

Also there's the whole thing with you only buying a license to certain content on the disc when you buy it, you don't literally now own every piece of content on the physical disc because you own the physical disc, but it's kinda muddy when you get into that and arguing against that is taking more issue with the DRM that's been present for years upon years.
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The difference is that you think it's okay, and I don't.

Consumer law has been going to hell. I'm still waiting for companies to be able to patent my genes so I have to pay them royalties for the license usage.
 
Karsticles said:
The time locking took it to a whole new level of stupidity. WHY?
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Sony moneyhats

Damn hats took my hitbox viewer for UMvC3.
A Pretty Panda said:
That'll be Beef with a megaphone.
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Megaphone_Shockwave_zpsd5d35a55.png

Karsticles said:
I care. This stuff sets a precedent. We're in a generation where companies are trying to push blocked used games, always online, half of a game locked out via unlock codes, and pay-to-win schemes. I do not want games to go down that route further than they already have. I would rather see my hobby go down in flames than see those practices become rampant. SFxT was Capcom testing these things out to see how willing people are to bend over for their product. It's important to turn around and return the favor.
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But what about the hype and guaranteed tournament audience
 
Karsticles said:
I care. This stuff sets a precedent. We're in a generation where companies are trying to push blocked used games, always online, half of a game locked out via unlock codes, and pay-to-win schemes. I do not want games to go down that route further than they already have. I would rather see my hobby go down in flames than see those practices become rampant. SFxT was Capcom testing these things out to see how willing people are to bend over for their product. It's important to turn around and return the favor.
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I don't like it either but I didn't mean to start up the age old argument of on disc DLC... I was mostly talking about SFxT's current pricing model on Steam... which is way more expensive than its console counter parts.
 
Karsticles said:
I care. This stuff sets a precedent. We're in a generation where companies are trying to push blocked used games, always online, half of a game locked out via unlock codes, and pay-to-win schemes. I do not want games to go down that route further than they already have. I would rather see my hobby go down in flames than see those practices become rampant. SFxT was Capcom testing these things out to see how willing people are to bend over for their product. It's important to turn around and return the favor.
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DmC has DLC's, not on-disc. That's something
 
Karsticles said:
I care. This stuff sets a precedent. We're in a generation where companies are trying to push blocked used games, always online, half of a game locked out via unlock codes, and pay-to-win schemes. I do not want games to go down that route further than they already have. I would rather see my hobby go down in flames than see those practices become rampant. SFxT was Capcom testing these things out to see how willing people are to bend over for their product. It's important to turn around and return the favor.
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Took the words right out of my mouth.
 
Yea the way DmC handled DLC and PC release/pricing was far better than most of the stuff Capcom has done thus far.

PC version releases on time with up to date patches. Comes with a free Bloody Palace DLC and a side quest DLC with a different character (not on disc). I would like to have seen BP be standard on the game day 1 but at least it was free and Capcom didn't try to milk that shit.

It's a shame the game did so bad in sales because the PC version was Capcom doing it right for once.
 
Karsticles said:
I care. This stuff sets a precedent. We're in a generation where companies are trying to push blocked used games, always online, half of a game locked out via unlock codes, and pay-to-win schemes. I do not want games to go down that route further than they already have. I would rather see my hobby go down in flames than see those practices become rampant. SFxT was Capcom testing these things out to see how willing people are to bend over for their product. It's important to turn around and return the favor.


The difference is that you think it's okay, and I don't.

Consumer law has been going to hell. I'm still waiting for companies to be able to patent my genes so I have to pay them royalties for the license usage.
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Well said.
 
SolarPowered said:
Sony moneyhats

Damn hats took my hitbox viewer for UMvC3.

But what about the hype and guaranteed tournament audience
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The Vita hitbox viewer is weird, too: why only in ranked matches?! O.o The UMvC3 team made such an awesome game, but so many stupid decisions (H&H ranked only, hitbox Vita only, hitbox ranked only, TACs...).

And what about hype and guaranteed tournament audience? I'm not following you there.

Dahbomb said:
I don't like it either but I didn't mean to start up the age old argument of on disc DLC... I was mostly talking about SFxT's current pricing model on Steam... which is way more expensive than its console counter parts.
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That's cool, I didn't mean to get us off track. I'll drop it.

Horseress said:
DmC has DLC's, not on-disc. That's something
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DmC was an entirely different lesson in "no" that fans had to teach Capcom. I am impressed that Capcom got the hint already, and will stop outsourcing so much work to inferior companies. IMO, Capcom is in the top 3 gaming companies in the world when it comes to gameplay, right up there with Nintendo and Platinum Games. You can't just outsource your artform like that.

SolarPowered said:
People justifying bad ideas for the numbers.
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I can only relate this to Ono talking about purposeful imbalance, and I don't see how that applies to the DLC situation.
 
I don't see how on disc DLC relates to hype and guaranteed tournament audience. Capcom doing the shenanigans with SFxT was to generate quick cash, not to foster "hype" or tournament audience. If they really thought that would generate hype then they should essentially cancel all their fighting game products that are being worked on now.
 
Karsticles said:
I care. This stuff sets a precedent. We're in a generation where companies are trying to push blocked used games, always online, half of a game locked out via unlock codes, and pay-to-win schemes. I do not want games to go down that route further than they already have. I would rather see my hobby go down in flames than see those practices become rampant. SFxT was Capcom testing these things out to see how willing people are to bend over for their product. It's important to turn around and return the favor.

The difference is that you think it's okay, and I don't.

Consumer law has been going to hell. I'm still waiting for companies to be able to patent my genes so I have to pay them royalties for the license usage.
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I think it's okay because I haven't seen people suggest a better alternative for both consumers and developers, and people keep pointing the fingers at publishers trying to stay afloat (and we all know how many have died this gen) when the root of the issue is archaic platform standards from Sony/MS/Nintendo.

Next gen, with PC-like patching on the PS4 and maybe Durango, people are still going to have to download online compatibility packs to see DLC characters they don't have and pay to unlock the characters they want. I think it's trivial to get caught up on this stuff when the bottom line doesn't really change. Suddenly one process is more ethical than another but produce the same result.

SFxTK embodies a lot that is wrong with this gen, all in one game, and Capcom is definitely at fault for exploiting the circumstances, but I see it more as a consequence of antiquated platforms that aren't ready for a post-Minecraft and like games world that set a precedent for consumer support.

The practice is anti-consumer, yes. But I find it hard to expect more of developers unless they completely drop that revenue stream of DLC and incur the penalties from platform holders for supporting the consumers otherwise. It's a trap for developers trying to fund expensive games which leads to a trap for consumers.
 
SFxTK is a mix of great design translations (making the game feel like TTT) and bad ones (graphics, not understanding the difference between M:TG customization and FG customization.)
 
enzo_gt said:
I think it's okay because I haven't seen people suggest a better alternative for both consumers and developers, and people keep pointing the fingers at publishers trying to stay afloat (and we all know how many have died this gen) when the root of the issue is archaic platform standards from Sony/MS/Nintendo.

Next gen, with PC-like patching on the PS4 and maybe Durango, people are still going to have to download online compatibility packs to see DLC characters they don't have and pay to unlock the characters they want. I think it's trivial to get caught up on this stuff when the bottom line doesn't really change. Suddenly one process is more ethical than another but produce the same result.

SFxTK embodies a lot that is wrong with this gen, all in one game, and Capcom is definitely at fault for exploiting the circumstances, but I see it more as a consequence of antiquated platforms that aren't ready for a post-Minecraft and like games world that set a precedent for consumer support.
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I'm with you on the antiquated platform stuff. I'm glad Nintendo is setting a precedent by not charging companies for patches and updates anymore. I hope Sony and MS follow suit on that, because the entire reason people got excited about this generation aside from graphical capabilities is the potential for digital updates. But charging $10K-40K for an update kills that dream.

Is that responsible for DLC practices? I don't know the numbers on that, but I'm skeptical.
 
Dahbomb said:
I don't see how on disc DLC relates to hype and guaranteed tournament audience. Capcom doing the shenanigans with SFxT was to generate quick cash, not to foster "hype" or tournament audience. If they really thought that would generate hype then they should essentially cancel all their fighting game products that are being worked on now.
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Most developers probably wouldn't think that, but some suit probably would. They'd probably think the tourney scene would love it since it means less downloads to worry about for everyone.

Only the characters were on the disc, right? It would have been a lot more manageable had the gems and characters been flipped around.
 
Karsticles said:
I'm with you on the antiquated platform stuff. I'm glad Nintendo is setting a precedent by not charging companies for patches and updates anymore. I hope Sony and MS follow suit on that, because the entire reason people got excited about this generation aside from graphical capabilities is the potential for digital updates. But charging $10K-40K for an update kills that dream.

Is that responsible for DLC practices? I don't know the numbers on that, but I'm skeptical.
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I wrote a big long post that got erased while switching tabs in Safari so ill just leave it at Sony and Nintendo are doing it right next gen and rumours of Durango using a W8-based store suggest they will be too.

Fuck whoever at MS thought that patching/TU fees costing that much was a good idea. But you live and you learn, and I have faith all three have learned.

CPS2 said:
Hay guys remember this from way back in May 2012?

"Capcom Says It's Done With On-Disc DLC"

What year is it?
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What games have they released since then?

IIRC, all the on-disc DLC on RE6 was free content (staggered release stuff like SFxTK colours), and DmC was bragged about as not having any on-disc DLC at all to make good on this promise.

Lets not act like Capcom is not aware how badly their practices have hurt their brand perception.
 
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