Fighting Games Weekly | Nov 17-23 | Settle it in Smash
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
BumblebeeCody
Member
Awesome thanks.
What tournament is this?
Smash 4 doesn't come out until this week for us in Europe because....well Nintendo.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
What toournament are yall talking about, cause for the past 3 days there has been a invitational on sky's twitch which was real as fuck, and captain falcon was so clutch against so many people, it was insane. it was anything but boring, combos for days.
Hot Coldman
Banned
You mean the machismo that this very same series conjured out of thin air?
Most of the fun I've had with Smash 4 comes from just single player stuff (it definitely needs a Adventure mode like Melee though).
There are still things that bother me in the competitive setting for this game, so I've been making that take a back seat.
I'm still trying to sort my thoughts on it. Like Brawl, it might not be my kind of Smash.
As for comparing it to Brawl. Hard to say.
There are still things that bother me in the competitive setting for this game, so I've been making that take a back seat.
I'm still trying to sort my thoughts on it. Like Brawl, it might not be my kind of Smash.
As for comparing it to Brawl. Hard to say.
ãInaba Residentã
Banned
Its definitely interesting. Though, I think it raises more issues.
Lowering knockback solves the problem of sending people too far for followups, but it doesn't fix any of the main problems that get in the way of combos like high endlag and low hit stun. And then you run into the problems of people living even longer as well as trying to agree on a standard setting, there's probably a large part of the competitive (brawl) community that thinks default smash 4 is perfect.
A hitstun modifier or a global end lag modifier would have been much better than a knockback modifier.
A hitstun modifier or a global end lag modifier would have been much better than a knockback modifier.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I think there is one of those
http://youtu.be/84XP7OMZhAg?t=2m16s
Looks dumb though since it affects other stats and shit
Yeah, you're being smart about it. I made a similar comment earlier this month. If you treat Smash WiiU like a video game - it's great. If you treat it like a fighting game - it's awful.
I pick Mega Man and go to Battlefield. I'm admiring the music, the background and the game's beautiful colors. Loving the rendition of a lovable yet mistreated icon. I'm initially baffled and disappointed by the lack of facial dynamics associated with his animations. "Why does he seem so dull in his expressions? That seems lazy. Was that intentional?" Then I realize the Astro Boy reference Mega Man is meant to be. I start to smile, and a sense of pride and respect for the game start to swell inside me. There' s a little joy, too. That tingling sense that you're about to experience something made with love and this is just the beginning. You want to see all it has to offer.
Time to get started.
I check out his B moves.
I start moving around the screen.
...
...
...
*turns the game off*
.
Frustrating. I can't appreciate any of those bells and whistles if the core gameplay feels like shit in my hands. I'm such a sucker for content and aesthetic touches I want to love this game so badly.
I don't even care that much about combos to be honest. I just want to have full control over my damned avatar. That's it! Just allow me to space my character properly so I can position my attacks and play footsies, proper, without using arcane community techniques that do nothing but avoid the fundamental issue.
I find it hard to come up with a basic gameplan for Mega Man just because Sakurai gets in the way. Fast fall is severely delayed, I have to fully commit during dashes, he constantly turns his back to the opponent after hitting the ground after trying to air control, and I get no momentum from dash jumps. It feels so goddamned sloppy.
『Inaba Resident』;140041492 said:
Like what?
I'm actually enjoying Smash 4 quite a bit here now that I have a proper controller to work with, but even with that enjoyment there are still just a few things I would love to see added in a future patch that would turn the game from "gorgeous but YMMV" to "legitimately timeless" a la Melee without ever going full hog into Melee's mold.
- Nerf air dodges so you can only do one in the air with no special fall. I'd just alter the current air dodge but with an actual consideration to its use; not sure if it should be once per time in the air or once per time in the air after being hit.
- Universal lowering of recovery lag on landing from aerials. It's much better than it was in the pre-release and 3DS phases but by being on a character by character basis instead of every character having one or two aerials that can be relied on for approaches or followups, it really just makes quite a few characters feel sluggish and glued down while others just float around doing fucking everything in that down time (seriously, try playing match ups like Marth or Shulk vs. an RTSD Mario and tell me your experience with it). Another option would be to create a means to cancel a portion of the lag when a condition is met. Since L cancelling is reviled in some circles as a Melee impurity [despite being a regularly mentioned and highlighted as a technique in supplementary material and the game manuals for 64 & Melee], I don't see another button press to cancel landing mid aerial animation being implemented despite the benefits. Instead, they could try doing a "on hit" system where attacks that makes contact with a shield or opponent recovers faster allowing for more options like poking a shield with a ranged Pit nair and dashing back/forward for the mixup or to protect space.
- Momentum conservation on jumps in the air. It's a platform (as in platformer) fighter. Who builds a platformer without the characters having forward momentum carrying them during jumps? I know Sakurai was also known for the Kirby series of platformers, but come on now. Such a simple change would fix so much of the current strangeness about going into the air or the perception of slow actions in game immediately. Also Falcon. Nuff said.
- While not as stressed as the previous three due to how much more work might be required to do this, I would like to see something to bring classic dash dancing back into the mix. When I discussed this last time in one of the Smash POTD threads, I ran into contention about how dash dancing is stupid because it looked "glitchy". While I don't know if this had any bearing on the "technique" being lost, my suggestion just for the sake of people who would be weirded out by how it looks would be for characters to have a universal KOF back hop like animation where if they flick the stick forward [to start a run] then flick it back within the early window of the run animation, the character does a short hop backwards on the ground complete with a psuedo wave land coverage of space depending on how hard the stick was flicked back. When the stick is held in the direction the hop moves in after this, they turn around mid animation and run as usual. You would still be able to do f-tilts forward or backward during the entire animation, it's just a visual que to allow the same applications of dash dances without the "jarring to casuals/non-competitive Melee players" aspect of the dash dance animation.
Would really love to hear thoughts on all this, especially the last point.
- Nerf air dodges so you can only do one in the air with no special fall. I'd just alter the current air dodge but with an actual consideration to its use; not sure if it should be once per time in the air or once per time in the air after being hit.
- Universal lowering of recovery lag on landing from aerials. It's much better than it was in the pre-release and 3DS phases but by being on a character by character basis instead of every character having one or two aerials that can be relied on for approaches or followups, it really just makes quite a few characters feel sluggish and glued down while others just float around doing fucking everything in that down time (seriously, try playing match ups like Marth or Shulk vs. an RTSD Mario and tell me your experience with it). Another option would be to create a means to cancel a portion of the lag when a condition is met. Since L cancelling is reviled in some circles as a Melee impurity [despite being a regularly mentioned and highlighted as a technique in supplementary material and the game manuals for 64 & Melee], I don't see another button press to cancel landing mid aerial animation being implemented despite the benefits. Instead, they could try doing a "on hit" system where attacks that makes contact with a shield or opponent recovers faster allowing for more options like poking a shield with a ranged Pit nair and dashing back/forward for the mixup or to protect space.
- Momentum conservation on jumps in the air. It's a platform (as in platformer) fighter. Who builds a platformer without the characters having forward momentum carrying them during jumps? I know Sakurai was also known for the Kirby series of platformers, but come on now. Such a simple change would fix so much of the current strangeness about going into the air or the perception of slow actions in game immediately. Also Falcon. Nuff said.
- While not as stressed as the previous three due to how much more work might be required to do this, I would like to see something to bring classic dash dancing back into the mix. When I discussed this last time in one of the Smash POTD threads, I ran into contention about how dash dancing is stupid because it looked "glitchy". While I don't know if this had any bearing on the "technique" being lost, my suggestion just for the sake of people who would be weirded out by how it looks would be for characters to have a universal KOF back hop like animation where if they flick the stick forward [to start a run] then flick it back within the early window of the run animation, the character does a short hop backwards on the ground complete with a psuedo wave land coverage of space depending on how hard the stick was flicked back. When the stick is held in the direction the hop moves in after this, they turn around mid animation and run as usual. You would still be able to do f-tilts forward or backward during the entire animation, it's just a visual que to allow the same applications of dash dances without the "jarring to casuals/non-competitive Melee players" aspect of the dash dance animation.
Would really love to hear thoughts on all this, especially the last point.
I actually saw your post after mine went up and I pretty much agree with it. Smash (at least to me) was the most immediately interesting fighting game I've ever played from a long time ago due to the level of control you had on your characters in a match. I don't know when all of this started getting exchanged for production values and decreasing control over characters because of whatever reason but it's really making me sad, especially when this entry is so fucking gorgeous to look at and has really outdone itself in how much Nintendo history is moving and on display in any single second of play.
Every time I see someone run forward, turn around and get put in that long "hold on sonny, I'm comin'!" animation instead of darting back at them or I see a down throw - up air combo string that stops at that because you can't move fast enough in air to link the fair, I just feel all =/
ViewtifulJC
Banned
The biggest thing for me is how I feel like I'm always having my back towards the opponent between the committed dashes and the air control game. So now I'm just using the buffed-as-fuck roll-roll-dodge-roll game. get hype
I ran into this a lot playing Karst yesterday. There is NOTHING in this game more terrifying than having your back turned on Bowser. I'm still in that intermediate phase of using shields to emulate dash dancing thanks to shields killing all forward movement, dropping fast as fuck and allowing me to initiate a dash in the other direction, but since I don't have my movement patterns varied enough yet, it makes for some pretty free moments especially if you are good at going in.
Related: You down for matches now?
CountBlack
Member
I'm down to play for a bit if y'all want
1v1 tho
1v1 tho
"Hey, if I could center my gameplan around spacing Mega Man's jumping neutral A to pester people at mid-range - that'd be something interesting!"
...
...
"Goddamn it!".
CountBlack
Member
I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage I'm garbage
ViewtifulJC
Banned
quoting this for posterity
CountBlack
Member
Karsticles
Member
I think most of the suggestions on universal changes are stated in a vacuum. People only care about what their own character needs. No landing lag on aerials would destroy slower characters. They need their defensive counters.
Changes that would be good for everyone:
Dash dancing returning.
Shields regenerating slower.
Rolls being a little weaker.
That is it. Do not change air dodges, or a character like Duck Hunt Dog becomes insanely powerful. You need multiple air dodges in this game.
Changes that would be good for everyone:
Dash dancing returning.
Shields regenerating slower.
Rolls being a little weaker.
That is it. Do not change air dodges, or a character like Duck Hunt Dog becomes insanely powerful. You need multiple air dodges in this game.
CountBlack
Member
my nig
I was like wtf just happened
I'm trynna read this taunt, next thing I know I'm being blasted into the netherrelm smh
ViewtifulJC
Banned
"get bopped brehs"
"ayy lmao"
"next week..."
"...in game magazine"
"ayy lmao"
"next week..."
"...in game magazine"
LMAO
Oh man I think that taunt's going to stay just because everyone who's seen it so far says the same thing. They want to know what's good then suddenly they're eating French food. All these frog legs in ya grill.
I'm mad I can't set a taunt to "All Blue Everything"
Master Milk
Member
count, azure
what y'all doin?
someone play with me
what y'all doin?
someone play with me
Lostconfused
Member
Not having a blowback on a burst/activate is some lame shit. It leads to really stupid/easy reversals. Particularly when activating it leaves you at an advantage.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
What game you talking about
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Smash
I'll jump on to play in a sec, my younger cousins are here and I'm entertaining.
Master Milk
Member
alright, make some noise when you're ready
Hot Coldman
Banned
Mine were mostly just NBA Jam quotes for a while.
CountBlack
Member
Project U
Who trynna give me this work?
Who trynna give me this work?
Master Milk
Member
count you dirty and you know it
Karsticles
Member
You guys have the best taunts. Especially Blackule. I need to figure out good taunts for Bowser, since the stupid blank box appears if I get rid of the text.
Lostconfused
Member
They are talking about smash. I am talking about the only game I play. When I activate with A burst and you are eating all of that damage because you over committed for a melee get-in and have no boost left. Make that shit seem mad unfair. Blowback was also added to RoI which makes it seem like the right move.
I am doing "training mode" with the low tier cast of G Gundam.
CountBlack
Member
Gonna change my controls, you can go play with milk
Not sure if I want c stick on tilts or smashes tbh
Not sure if I want c stick on tilts or smashes tbh
GGs man.
Karsticles
Member
I like it on tilts just because they are harder to do. K never have problems doing smash attacks.
theprodigy
Member
KTAR XI was an incredibly poorly run tournament that ended, of course, in fucking Diddy mirrors for grand finals
CountBlack
Member
The tier whoring in Smash is probably the worst I've seen for FG's tbh. Unless the lower tier characters are totally unviable/Deejay tier.
Watching that tourny it felt like every other match had Diddy or Sheik.