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[parrotbeak]

Watch this:

Stuart McGill in action

Wow, that's cool. I stopped doing crunches awhile ago but never heard that explanation before; I just didn't really like doing them and was getting a good core workout from other things. I've been doing planks and bird dogs, which seem the better exercises for building stability endurance. Will definitely try the stirring the pot.

What about hanging leg lifts?

 

[MrToughPants]

if you're looking for dumbbells i recommend this site: http://www.newyorkbarbells.tv/im-0030.html . at most your standard 14 inch dumbbells only hold about 60-70 pounds if your lucky but with 18 inch long bars you can easily put on 100 pounds worth of weight on each, which makes it easier to progress steadily in your heavier lifts like the shoulder press, flat press, rows, etc. and after you get the bars if you look carefully enough through garage sales, smaller stores, or whatever you can get weights a lot cheaper than your standard 1-2d$/pound of weight.

edit: yeah i agree it's more wise to get fitness equipment second hand however, it's hard to come across dumbbell handles larger than your standard 14 inch.

I got some 18" standard 1" spinlocks and they're one of the best purchases i've made. They weigh about 4.7lbs each and I can put as much weight possible on them upto 200lbs.

 

[X-Frame]

Wow, that's cool. I stopped doing crunches awhile ago but never heard that explanation before; I just didn't really like doing them and was getting a good core workout from other things. I've been doing planks and bird dogs, which seem the better exercises for building stability endurance. Will definitely try the stirring the pot.

What about hanging leg lifts?

I think he would say they're a no-no because you're still flexing your spine continuously, but at the same time when you're hanging you sometimes might be tractioning your spine which usually is a good thing.

Personally I'd rather work my abs by challenging myself with front and side bridges, and the Stir-The-Pot exercise (which I tried for the first time last weekend and it was brutal).

Since I've hurt my back before, I wouldn't take the chance with flexion exercises like leg raises, because unless people have great hip mobility I'm assuming they would be rounding their back at the top of each motion.

 

[BertramCooper]

I just got back from a business trip in Virginia Beach and I feel really bad for deviating from my routine.

Of course, it's a trip, so I need to take it easy on myself. And I did get in a lot of exercise at the hotel gym, which was surprisingly nice. But the eating went to hell, as should probably be expected.

Oh well. It happens.

 

[Buckethead]

Drinking half your body weight in water... tedious shit.
I don't buy that, but trying to drink at least 72.

Downloaded Water Your Body app so that I can keep better track.

 

[BuRT!]

Does the chest fill out evenly over time as you gain strength?

Right now the outer edges of my chest are larger while the middle has almost no muscle, and the top interior corners are non-existent. I am only benching 160 lbs and realize that is very weak, but am wondering if I should switch to flys to focus on the center more or if it will just fill in as I get stronger.

thanks.

 

[X-Frame]

Does the chest fill out evenly over time as you gain strength?

Right now the outer edges of my chest are larger while the middle has almost no muscle, and the top interior corners are non-existent. I am only benching 160 lbs and realize that is very weak, but am wondering if I should switch to flys to focus on the center more or if it will just fill in as I get stronger.

thanks.

Remember it's not just about the weight you're using but also how much you're eating. Can't expect your chest to grow if you still eat as if you were 150 pounds.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Yo guys, I just want some advice on protein intake. I weigh 240 lbs, so after all the multiplications I'll end up needing around 140g of protein per day to adequately maintain?

I'm cutting, for what it's worth (doing P90x).

 

[rando14]

Does the chest fill out evenly over time as you gain strength?

Right now the outer edges of my chest are larger while the middle has almost no muscle, and the top interior corners are non-existent. I am only benching 160 lbs and realize that is very weak, but am wondering if I should switch to flys to focus on the center more or if it will just fill in as I get stronger.

thanks.

As you suspected, different chest exercises target different parts of the chest (sternal, calvicular, minor). You should incorporate varying chest exercises. For example, I like to do bench press (regular and decline, pushing motion), dumbell chest flies (squeezing motion), reverse grip bench press (pushing motion), and then my last exercise varies (cable chest flies, dips, etc.).

It's worked really well for me.

 

[MjFrancis]

The man who wants to kill crunches
Article on Stuart McGill.

While there are lots of ways to injure a back, the sit-up is an easily preventable one. According to his research, a crunch or traditional sit-up generates at least 3,350 newtons (the equivalent of 340 kg) of compressive force on the spine. The U.S. National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health states that anything above 3,300 newtons is unsafe.

While [some] recommend people find a balance between old and new techniques, McGill’s message is more blunt: “There are only so many bends in your spine until the discs eventually herniate.”

I have a lot of thoughts on Stuat McGill's work, the least of which is that the majority of his conclusions in his lab studies were drawn from dead pig spines rather than live human ones. Biomechanically similar, yes, but not the same. This point stuck out when I saw one of his abstracts since I was engaged by his research. There's so much that I have read, and so much still left to be read. Basically, I find he is setting some concrete groundwork for insights into spinal flexion, back pain and athleticism, but it is far from exhaustive or authoritative.

I don't want to criticize his work too much since he's probably forgotten more about the subject than I'll ever know. I'm not a huge fan of the crunch but I love the hanging ab raise - which involves a lot of the same spinal flexion. Hell, as weightlifters we compress our spines as a pastime! I'm even getting off track with that however.

Point is I hesitate to throw the baby out with the bath water. That's the crux of my thoughts at this point. The athletes he sees are champion wrestlers, football players, and people who fuck up their backs more than any of us will ever attempt in our lifetimes. Though, if through a cost/benefit analysis of crunches - is it doing us much of a favor to spend 30 minutes flexing our spines in a vain attempt at abdominal hypertrophy through repetition? Probably not a good use of gym time, and probably doing more potential damage to the spine than a much smaller number of weighted ab exercises could accomplish. I mean, if we take his quote literally, we're all doomed to a hernia eventually, right?

Just thinking out loud, keep a big grain of salt handy if you bothered reading this since all I'm doing is some devil's advocacy as I pour through the material that has his name on it.

 

[Scrow]

about to start going to the gym regularly again after months of not working out.

my aim is to put on weight (muscle mass mostly and a little bit of fat).

going to start with this: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program#Practical_Programming_Novice_Program:

probably going to do it for a month or two then move onto more advanced and intense programs.

good place to start? or can someone suggest something better?

 

[parrotbeak]

Drinking half your body weight in water... tedious shit.
I don't buy that, but trying to drink at least 72.

What? Sounds like a good way to throw your salt balance off and die of water toxicity. The half your body weight thing anyway. Not sure what the 72 is, but I hope not gallons or liters.

I think he would say they're a no-no because you're still flexing your spine continuously, but at the same time when you're hanging you sometimes might be tractioning your spine which usually is a good thing.

Personally I'd rather work my abs by challenging myself with front and side bridges, and the Stir-The-Pot exercise (which I tried for the first time last weekend and it was brutal).

Since I've hurt my back before, I wouldn't take the chance with flexion exercises like leg raises, because unless people have great hip mobility I'm assuming they would be rounding their back at the top of each motion.

Point is I hesitate to throw the baby out with the bath water. That's the crux of my thoughts at this point. The athletes he sees are champion wrestlers, football players, and people who fuck up their backs more than any of us will ever attempt in our lifetimes. Though, if through a cost/benefit analysis of crunches - is it doing us much of a favor to spend 30 minutes flexing our spines in a vain attempt at abdominal hypertrophy through repetition? Probably not a good use of gym time, and probably doing more potential damage to the spine than a much smaller number of weighted ab exercises could accomplish. I mean, if we take his quote literally, we're all doomed to a hernia eventually, right?

Thanks for the insight, guys. Good topic for discussion. I think I'll read up more on the guy's work and not go crazy on the hanging leg lifts for now. I can't do too many anyway.

good place to start? or can someone suggest something better?

I think that's a great place to start.

 

[Snaku]

Okay, I've put on a shit load of weight after having broken my back years ago and never worked it off for a multitude of reasons.

Age: 27
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 240lbs.
Goal: 170lbs.
Current Training Schedule: LOL
Current Training Equipment Available: Small apartment community gym. Treadmill, elliptical, one of those 3-in-1 weight machines.
Comments: I've cut soda out of my diet and drink water almost exclusively. I eat trash though, and I'm not active at all. I'm pretty big on routine, so once I get started on this it'll be pretty easy to stay on it. I've just gotta get out of this shit routine, and would like some advice on diet & exercise.

 

[Buckethead]

What? Sounds like a good way to throw your salt balance off and die of water toxicity. The half your body weight thing anyway. Not sure what the 72 is, but I hope not gallons or liters.

I was referring to half your body weight in ounces (but I don't buy that/is too much) so I'm drinking 72 oz. a day.

 

[parrotbeak]

Okay, I've put on a shit load of weight after having broken my back years ago and never worked it off for a multitude of reasons.

What did you do to your back? I'd say get jogging on the elliptical or treadmill for starters, throw some push ups in there for upper body, increase them a little bit every day, and once you've got some foundation to work with, look into other things like what's in the OP. At this stage I'd think a little bit every day would be fine. When you move on to more advanced exercises you'll need rest days, but right now I'd just get used to moving every day.

I was referring to half your body weight in ounces (but I don't buy that/is too much) so I'm drinking 72 oz. a day.

Oh, lol, sorry, just came back from a hill run and my mind feels clear but it's obviously not.

 

[X-Frame]

Well, since the initial inflammation has gone done it seems that I am left with a subluxed shoulder. My first surgery, in 2002, was to correct shoulder instability. Looks like that repair has failed after 9 years.

I feel the shoulder slightly subluxing anteriorly out of my socket, and I can sometimes push it up/back until I feel a pop and then it feels like it's in there.

I can't comprehend going back under the knife for the 3rd time on this poor shoulder. Lol. The "good" news is that at least if they do repair the original surgery it'll be with 9 years more modern medical techniques.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Did some legs today

Leg Press
Squats
Calf Raises
Leg Extentions
Lying leg curl

Hurts so good........ or just hurts :/

 

[MjFrancis]

Thanks for the insight, guys. Good topic for discussion. I think I'll read up more on the guy's work and not go crazy on the hanging leg lifts for now. I can't do too many anyway.

I would highly recommend it. He's definitely an authority on back injuries and sports. It's just whenever I read absolute conclusions like "always" and "never," I keep in mind how broad those brush strokes really are.

 

[kikanny]

Hi guys. I wanna post my workout routine that I've been doing the past 4 weeks or so. I wanna get some feedback. I'm trying to cut my body fat to get some really good abs and tone my body while trying not to lose my muscle tissue also. My aim is to get this done by end of August!

Age: 21
Weight: 145 lb
Height: 5'7"

Monday: Biceps/Chest, HIIT (30 sec sprint, 1 min jog, 8-10 times)
Tuesday: Ab Ripper X in the morning, Cardio in evening
Wednesday: Triceps/Shoulders, HIIT (30 sec sprint, 1 min jog, 8-10 times)
Thursday: Ab Ripper X in the morning, Cardio in evening
Friday: Legs/Back, HIIT (30 sec sprint, 1 min jog, 8-10 times)
Saturday: Ab Ripper X in the morning, Cardio in evening
Sunday: Slow cardio

In addition to this, I also play soccer once or twice, basketball once or twice, skating thrice and squash twice a week. Here's my diet:

Morning: Oatmeal with whey protein
Afternoon: If at school - Turkey pita/Chicken souvlaki pita/Gyro pita ; If at home - Steamed vegetables with fish
Evening: Fruits/Carrots, Eggs
Night: Oatmeal with whey protein (sometimes a souvlaki pita if I'm at school)

So what do you guys think?

 

[TheRagnCajun]

I would highly recommend it. He's definitely an authority on back injuries and sports. It's just whenever I read absolute conclusions like "always" and "never," I keep in mind how broad those brush strokes really are.

So basically core work sans spine flexion is best. I don't necessarily see what's wrong with hanging leg raises though, unless he specifically condenmed those too. Its sort of a different mechanic.

 

[FallingEdge]

Nice, I'll need to check out more of those links you guys posted. Can always use good core workouts.

kikanny: Visible abs are possible because of a low bodyfat. Where are your workouts for your legs? Back? I don't know what your current frame is now but if you don't have enough muscle, then it doesn't matter how much fat you lose, you are just going to look funny.

 

[kikanny]

Nice, I'll need to check out more of those links you guys posted. Can always use good core workouts.

kikanny: Visible abs are possible because of a low bodyfat. Where are your workouts for your legs? Back? I don't know what your current frame is now but if you don't have enough muscle, then it doesn't matter how much fat you lose, you are just going to look funny.

I do my legs and back on fridays.

 

[FallingEdge]

Ah. Totally missed that. My mistake.

In any case, I feel like there is too much cardio and not enough time for your body to rest. Then again, you are young so you might be good to go. The only other thing I would say is to break down how many calories you are having. At least 1g of protein per BW.

 

[MjFrancis]

So basically core work sans spine flexion is best. I don't necessarily see what's wrong with hanging leg raises though, unless he specifically condenmed those too. Its sort of a different mechanic.

Sans forward spinal flexion to be precise. This may negate the most awesome hanging leg raise if I am reading into it correctly. Even then, zero forward spinal flexion seems to be just as radical as frequent and persistent forward spinal flexion. There's a ROM in there that has to be healthy that the experts can't seem to agree upon.

A big part of Stuart McGill that I'm really starting to like is that he cautions his followers about the specificity of many of his findings, i.e what works well for some won't work as well for others. Except, of course, for his disdain of crunches.

 

[dentoomw]

Yo guys, I just want some advice on protein intake. I weigh 240 lbs, so after all the multiplications I'll end up needing around 140g of protein per day to adequately maintain?

I'm cutting, for what it's worth (doing P90x).

What is your bodyfat ratio? I think 140g of protein for your weight is way too low. Rule of thumb is to take 1g of protein per pound of bodymass. If you don't know your bodyfat ratio, there are online calculators you can check.

Your macronutrient cuts should come mainly from your carbs and fat intake.

 

[reilo]

Hrmm, I do weighted incline sit-ups for my warm-up routine, and reading all of this McGill stuff is making me reconsider switching it up to another form of abdominal exercise.

Besides the "stir the pot" method with the exercise ball, are there any other ab workouts that don't involve spinal flexing?

Or am I taking his research too literal and I shouldn't be too concerned about it?

 

[X-Frame]

A good article I read for core training on T-Nation. Goes into more advanced stuff beyond just planks and stuff.

Iron Core: Develop a Punch-proof body

 

[reilo]

A good article I read for core training on T-Nation. Goes into more advanced stuff beyond just planks and stuff.

Iron Core: Develop a Punch-proof body

Excellent, thanks! I'll add those into my off-day routine.

 

[PBY]

about to start going to the gym regularly again after months of not working out.

my aim is to put on weight (muscle mass mostly and a little bit of fat).

going to start with this: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program#Practical_Programming_Novice_Program:

probably going to do it for a month or two then move onto more advanced and intense programs.

good place to start? or can someone suggest something better?

great place to start... but don't just do it for a month or two and move on, follow the program to a t. Trust me, it works.

 

[smoothj]

I'm not really looking to work out much. Just want to get my arms bigger and more defined.

What are the best exercises/workouts that will help me get the fastest results?

 

[X-Frame]

Hrmm, I do weighted incline sit-ups for my warm-up routine, and reading all of this McGill stuff is making me reconsider switching it up to another form of abdominal exercise.

Besides the "stir the pot" method with the exercise ball, are there any other ab workouts that don't involve spinal flexing?

Or am I taking his research too literal and I shouldn't be too concerned about it?

The thing that would personally make me stop sit-ups is because I can't for the life of me remember reading an article written in the past several years where trainers or coaches recommend them, or crunches, etc.

So unless that's just because they might assume they're a given, less and less people are recommending them.

Here is another rather long article by Rippetoe where he talks about abs, and while I read this awhile ago I'm pretty sure he is against crunches and sit-ups too. Go halfway into Articles for his "Abs" article, it's a PDF:

Abs - by Rippetoe

Also just noticed a Core Stability article he wrote too at the end of the articles list but I haven't read it yet.

 

[MjFrancis]

Or am I taking his research too literal and I shouldn't be too concerned about it?

Personally, I wouldn't do weighted crunches that frequently anyways, but consider giving the L-Seat a try. The advantages are that you don't have to have access to a high bar like the hanging leg raise does.

Beast Skills L-Seat tutorial

 

[reilo]

Personally, I wouldn't do weighted crunches that frequently anyways, but consider giving the L-Seat a try. The advantages are that you don't have to have access to a high bar like the hanging leg raise does.

Beast Skills L-Seat tutorial

FUUUUUUUUU---

 

[dentoomw]

Hrmm, I do weighted incline sit-ups for my warm-up routine, and reading all of this McGill stuff is making me reconsider switching it up to another form of abdominal exercise.

Besides the "stir the pot" method with the exercise ball, are there any other ab workouts that don't involve spinal flexing?

Or am I taking his research too literal and I shouldn't be too concerned about it?

You can try suitcase walks. It's much like a farmer's walk but instead of balancing the weight out on both sides of your body, all the weight will be on one side. That way your forced to use your core to stabilize and balance yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhhwplM5By0

 

[ipukespiders]

Hrmm, I do weighted incline sit-ups for my warm-up routine, and reading all of this McGill stuff is making me reconsider switching it up to another form of abdominal exercise.

I've been doing them too, with plates, at the end of my workout on leg days.

Just a though for other alternatives. Tricep pushdowns on the pulley machines. I always get a nice ab burn from these just by keeping ultra strict form when doing them.

The spine is a very fragile component and this talk gives me pause.

 

[Sarye]

Hi guys. I wanna post my workout routine that I've been doing the past 4 weeks or so. I wanna get some feedback. I'm trying to cut my body fat to get some really good abs and tone my body while trying not to lose my muscle tissue also. My aim is to get this done by end of August!

Age: 21
Weight: 145 lb
Height: 5'7"

Monday: Biceps/Chest, HIIT (30 sec sprint, 1 min jog, 8-10 times)
Tuesday: Ab Ripper X in the morning, Cardio in evening
Wednesday: Triceps/Shoulders, HIIT (30 sec sprint, 1 min jog, 8-10 times)
Thursday: Ab Ripper X in the morning, Cardio in evening
Friday: Legs/Back, HIIT (30 sec sprint, 1 min jog, 8-10 times)
Saturday: Ab Ripper X in the morning, Cardio in evening
Sunday: Slow cardio

In addition to this, I also play soccer once or twice, basketball once or twice, skating thrice and squash twice a week. Here's my diet:

Morning: Oatmeal with whey protein
Afternoon: If at school - Turkey pita/Chicken souvlaki pita/Gyro pita ; If at home - Steamed vegetables with fish
Evening: Fruits/Carrots, Eggs
Night: Oatmeal with whey protein (sometimes a souvlaki pita if I'm at school)

So what do you guys think?

I'm the same height as you and can't imagine being 145lb. You don't want to gain muscle to fill out your body? In my opinion if you keep the muscle you have but lose the fat, you will look too skinny.

My first impression is that you're doing too much cardio. On the days you play sports you can skip the cardio. You will most likely burn out or injure yourself since you're not giving yourself any time to heal up.

For food, if you're concerned about losing muscle, then definitely eat a lot of protein. I don't know what your portions are but it doesn't look like a lot. You have two meals where you're eating whey protein. It seems like you'll get hungry fast with this diet.

 

[parrotbeak]

Sans forward spinal flexion to be precise. This may negate the most awesome hanging leg raise if I am reading into it correctly. Even then, zero forward spinal flexion seems to be just as radical as frequent and persistent forward spinal flexion. There's a ROM in there that has to be healthy that the experts can't seem to agree upon.

It also takes out many of the stretches I was taught in physical therapy specifically to relax the lower back -- most of the ham and glute stretches where you lay or sit on the floor involve forward spinal flexion, and I do these just about every day. Hmm, I definitely have some reading and thinking to do.

I guess for now a t-shirt stuffed under the small of my back while laying down stretching my hams should keep my spine curved and probably give a better stretch to the ham/glute.

 

[reilo]

I'm assuming since sit-ups and crunches are undesirable because of spinal flexion, the same holds true for back extensions, no?

 

[MjFrancis]

From what little I have read that would follow when adopting that train of thought.

 

[Monte]

This is a great topic for someone who wants to gain muscle and weight but is not particularly great for an athlete. Plyometrics are generally just as important, if not more important to athletics as weight training.

Also, while low reps are great for strength building an athlete needs much more endurance than that type of weight training requires. (This varies in type of athlete, a distance runner needs more than a gymnast)

 

[TheRagnCajun]

It also takes out many of the stretches I was taught in physical therapy specifically to relax the lower back -- most of the ham and glute stretches where you lay or sit on the floor involve forward spinal flexion, and I do these just about every day. Hmm, I definitely have some reading and thinking to do.

I guess for now a t-shirt stuffed under the small of my back while laying down stretching my hams should keep my spine curved and probably give a better stretch to the ham/glute.

Stretching? I dont' know if he's condemning spine flexion when there's no resistance involved.

 

[ipukespiders]

I'm assuming since sit-ups and crunches are undesirable because of spinal flexion, the same holds true for back extensions, no?

No more deadlifts!
No more tying my own shoes either.

 

[reilo]

This is a great topic for someone who wants to gain muscle and weight but is not particularly great for an athlete. Plyometrics are generally just as important, if not more important to athletics as weight training.

Also, while low reps are great for strength building an athlete needs much more endurance than that type of weight training requires. (This varies in type of athlete, a distance runner needs more than a gymnast)

Completely agree. This thread is very heavily tilted towards strength and hypertrophy production.

On the other hand, that's also completely understandable. If your day-to-day job is being an amateur or professional athlete, chances are you'll be in an environment that caters to your specific needs already.

Sure, some of us might play basketball, or soccer, or baseball, or what have you once or twice a week, but how many of us do this in our after-work time and not as our during-work time?

Although, it's never a bad thing to have an abundance of resources. Perhaps you can suggest some "athlete/endurance" specific topics that you would like us to cover? There's a few MMA guys in here that might be able to chime in (like Evilore).

No more deadlifts!
No more tying my own shoes either.

I think that part has been covered. Those activities are fine as long as you keep lordosis.

 

[parrotbeak]

Stretching? I dont' know if he's condemning spine flexion when there's no resistance involved.

Oh ok, the article Francis linked mentioned the standing bent over stretch, which I also love, but it wasn't McGill's words, it was the author's guess on what McGill would say.

 

[Sarye]

This is a great topic for someone who wants to gain muscle and weight but is not particularly great for an athlete. Plyometrics are generally just as important, if not more important to athletics as weight training.

Also, while low reps are great for strength building an athlete needs much more endurance than that type of weight training requires. (This varies in type of athlete, a distance runner needs more than a gymnast)

For athletes, it's all about explosive power but don't count out weight lifting for sports. Athletes lift during the off season and pretty much all sports can benefit from more strength. (except long distance running and a few others of course)

I like to think of weightlifting as a supplement to sports. Of course if you want to get better at a sport, you should play that sport more and do specific drills that cater to it, but for me, lifting have significantly improved my skills in pretty much all sports I play.

A good example is baseball/softball. Lifting directly improves how far you can hit.

 

[X-Frame]

Stretching? I dont' know if he's condemning spine flexion when there's no resistance involved.

Yup, he does.

For example, knees-to-chest stretch is something my chiro told me to do but it's something he says it pointless and even counter-productive. He states it allows your stretch receptors to make it seem like you feel better but it's not doing much for the root problem.

He states you don't want to stretch the back. The back muscles are stabilizers, the lower back is not a joint like a shoulder where you want mobility. The lower back you want endurance and strength. That's why his rehab is all about exercises that engage the core muscles isometrically while the back is in neutral alignment.

More often than not, people want to make sure their hips have mobility, not their back. Knee, back, to ankle pain is often caused by the hips. So stretching your hip flexors, mobility drills to improve squat depth, hip mobility in extension/flexion, strengthening the smaller muscles like adductors and abductors, etc are better ways to improve wellness.

And re: deadlifts and whatnot, McGill mostly speaks out about rehab exercises I believe. I don't think he condemns any flexion/extension completely. You can perform flexion/extension exercises while still being in a neutral alignment, like deadlifts and Squats.

^^ That's what I've gotten from McGill and other trainers around the web.

 

[reilo]

Yup, he does.

For example, knees-to-chest stretch is something my chiro told me to do but it's something he says it pointless and even counter-productive. He states it allows your stretch receptors to make it seem like you feel better but it's not doing much for the root problem.

He states you don't want to stretch the back. The back muscles are stabilizers, the lower back is not a joint like a shoulder where you want mobility. The lower back you want endurance and strength. That's why his rehab is all about exercises that engage the core muscles isometrically while the back is in neutral alignment.

More often than not, people want to make sure their hips have mobility, not their back. Knee, back, to ankle pain is often caused by the hips. So stretching your hip flexors, mobility drills to improve squat depth, hip mobility in extension/flexion, strengthening the smaller muscles like adductors and abductors, etc are better ways to improve wellness.

And re: deadlifts and whatnot, McGill mostly speaks out about rehab exercises I believe. I don't think he condemns any flexion/extension completely. You can perform flexion/extension exercises while still being in a neutral alignment, like deadlifts and Squats.

^^ That's what I've gotten from McGill and other trainers around the web.

Geez. I stretch my calves by sitting down and touching my right hand to my right foot. That's definitely flexing my spine. I guess I'll need to come up with new stretching routines.

 

[Subtervotion]

I workout:
Monday- chest
Tuesday- back/shoulders
Thursday- legs
Friday- arms

I heard recently that you should workout muscle groups twice a week. Would it be wise to double up? Ex:

Monday- chest/back/shoulders
Tuesday- legs/arms
Thursday- chest/back/shoulders
Friday- legs/arms

If any more info is needed, let me know.

 

[perryfarrell]

Completely agree. This thread is very heavily tilted towards strength and hypertrophy production. Although, it's never a bad thing to have an abundance of resources. Perhaps you can suggest some "athlete/endurance" specific topics that you would like us to cover?

Agreed. The OP deserves at least a cardio/endurance section, which I wouldn't mind working on. I do a lotta cycling and have been reading up on interval training, heart rate zones, VO2max, lactic acid and all that. I'll try to whip something up.

It could even be argued that sedentary people who wanna lose weight are better served by a cardio-heavy exercise program than by a program build on muscle gain.

 

[ipukespiders]

I think that part has been covered. Those activities are fine as long as you keep lordosis.

Was kidding on that.
Since I started back on weights, my lower back has never felt better. I owe it all to squats, deadlifts, and ab work, and I'm not about to stop it.