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Fitness |OT3| BroScience, Protein Dysentery, XXL Calf Implants, and Squat Rack Hogs

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blackflag

Member
I usually listen to Marc Maron podcast or something like that lol. If I'm really struggling, I'll have to switch to Master of Puppets for a minute.
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
How do people get the 3500 calories equals one lb of fat calculation? I remember when I was younger people were saying 4000, then later it seems like it got revised to 3500.


1 pound = 453.59237 grams
453.59237 grams x 9 calories per gram of fat = 4082.33133 calories in 1 pound of fat

Feel like I'm missing something here...
 

Kwhit10

Member
I don't listen to music at the gym anymore, but when I did one of my 'go-to' bands to get pumped with Rage Against The Machine.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
How do people get the 3500 calories equals one lb of fat calculation? I remember when I was younger people were saying 4000, then later it seems like it got revised to 3500.


1 pound = 453.59237 grams
453.59237 grams x 9 calories per gram of fat = 4082.33133 calories in 1 pound of fat

Feel like I'm missing something here...

Adipose tissue, aka body fat, is not pure fat. One pound of it is ~3500 calories, as opposed to the 4000 calories in a pound of dietary fat.
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Adipose tissue, aka body fat, is not pure fat. One pound of it is ~3500 calories, as opposed to the 4000 calories in a pound of dietary fat.
That makes sense.



What about this:

1lb = 453.59237 grams
mammalian muscle is 19% protein
453.59237g x .19 = 86.1825503g or protein needed for an extra lb of muscle.

This assumes some stuff, but I don't understand how eating 1+g/lb of bodyweight is necessary.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
What about this:

1lb = 453.59237 grams
mammalian muscle is 19% protein
453.59237g x .19 = 86.1825503g or protein needed for an extra lb of muscle.

This assumes some stuff, but I don't understand how eating 1+g/lb of bodyweight is necessary.

What you're assuming is that 100% of the protein you consume would go directly into building new muscle tissue, which isn't anywhere near the case. Protein serves other bodily functions and you need a base amount per day to be healthy, not taking into account training.

Muscles are also broken down when you do strength training, so you need protein to recover, and more protein on top of that to make gains.
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
What you're assuming is that 100% of the protein you consume would go directly into building new muscle tissue, which isn't anywhere near the case. Protein serves other bodily functions and you need a base amount per day to be healthy, not taking into account training.

Muscles are also broken down when you do strength training, so you need protein to recover, and more protein on top of that to make gains.

As far as bodily functions and muscle recovery, (and this is completely anecdotal but I'm guessing most of us know people like this) I've had friends that worked out a lot, ate "normallly", and didn't grow much if at all in size probably because of their average diets. With their 50-60g of protein a day or whatever and normal amount of calories they weren't LOSING muscle. So I feel like bodily upkeep and repair doesn't require a lot of protein.

I also feel like it shouldn't take 100-200g more than that low upkeep figure to gain a lb of muscle a week (being optimistic) unless absorption above whatever it takes for upkeep is INSANELY low.

If you look at what's necessary given 100% utilization and some other assumptions:

86.1825503g / 7days = 12.3117929g per day (above bodily upkeep needs) to build a lb in a week.


That would mean that given some of my above assumptions, protein beyond upkeep needs is only utilized at like ~10% or maybe less. Maybe protein isn't utilized very well at all above homeostasis, I don't know. the idea immediately brings up some red flags for me though. I'mma read those two links posted above.
 

IceCold

Member
Today at the gym I saw a friend that I hadn't seen in a while. He's in pretty good shape and follows a program given to him by a trainer. It's a split program with no compound lifts like squats, dead lifts, rows or military press. I told him that he might want to consider doing them. He told me he didn't like them. Why? Well because either they are too hard or because they make you look gay since you have to stick your but out (his words).


I wanted to slap him.
 

rando14

Member
Today at the gym I saw a friend that I hadn't seen in a while. He's in pretty good shape and follows a program given to him by a trainer. It's a split program with no compound lifts like squats, dead lifts, rows or military press. I told him that he might want to consider doing them. He told me he didn't like them. Why? Well because either they are too hard or because they make you look gay since you have to stick your but out (his words).


I wanted to slap him.

I have several friends who are afraid of squats and deadlifts because, "they just can't do them" and "my legs really were sore afterwards".
 

Szu

Member
Today at the gym I saw a friend that I hadn't seen in a while. He's in pretty good shape and follows a program given to him by a trainer. It's a split program with no compound lifts like squats, dead lifts, rows or military press. I told him that he might want to consider doing them. He told me he didn't like them. Why? Well because either they are too hard or because they make you look gay since you have to stick your but out (his words).


I wanted to slap him.

Slap him in the ass.
 

Petrie

Banned
So I'm doing bench again tonight, and my left upper shoulder starts to hurt again. After paying more attention, it doesn't seem to be the muscle, it's a soreness of the actual bone. Any ideas what might cause this? OHP doesn't hurt at all, so I'm quite confused.
 

Lamel

Banned
As far as bodily functions and muscle recovery, (and this is completely anecdotal but I'm guessing most of us know people like this) I've had friends that worked out a lot, ate "normallly", and didn't grow much if at all in size probably because of their average diets. With their 50-60g of protein a day or whatever and normal amount of calories they weren't LOSING muscle. So I feel like bodily upkeep and repair doesn't require a lot of protein.

I also feel like it shouldn't take 100-200g more than that low upkeep figure to gain a lb of muscle a week (being optimistic) unless absorption above whatever it takes for upkeep is INSANELY low.

If you look at what's necessary given 100% utilization and some other assumptions:

86.1825503g / 7days = 12.3117929g per day (above bodily upkeep needs) to build a lb in a week.


That would mean that given some of my above assumptions, protein beyond upkeep needs is only utilized at like ~10% or maybe less. Maybe protein isn't utilized very well at all above homeostasis, I don't know. the idea immediately brings up some red flags for me though. I'mma read those two links posted above.

Nah...you're over thinking things. And don't really know what you're talking about. You're making too many assumptions without any proper understanding of how the body works when it comes to these things.
 
Here's a question for the group:

Ever since I started lifting weights (usually three or four days in a row focusing on chest/abs, biceps/triceps, back/shoulders each day; fourth day is almost always pure cardio) I periodically develop an ache in my sternum/breastbone region that can turn into a sharp pain if I do things like twist my upper torso or flex my pec muscles by bringing my arms together. It usually goes away after a few days and is often accompanied by my sternum "popping". Literally imagine your knuckles popping, only the sensation comes from right dead center between my pecs. Sometimes it pops for a few days even without any ache or pain to go with it; I can throw my chest forward and my shoulders back and hear/feel it.

What is this?
Minus the popping, I suffer from this and self diagnosed (and got my gf's gp friend to confirm) costochondritis. I think mine was caused by putting my bench up too much, too fast. My muscles could handle it but your bones/cartilage take longer to adapt.

I took a month off, dropped my bench by 20kg and have only been putting it up by 0.5kg increments since. Still sometimes get a slight ache post workout but can also get it from sleeping funny.

Bad news is that there isn't really a treatment apart from rest and hoping it goes away.

Also, I'm not skinny either, 191lb and 28%bf so a bit tubby.
 

X-Frame

Member
As far as bodily functions and muscle recovery, (and this is completely anecdotal but I'm guessing most of us know people like this) I've had friends that worked out a lot, ate "normallly", and didn't grow much if at all in size probably because of their average diets. With their 50-60g of protein a day or whatever and normal amount of calories they weren't LOSING muscle. So I feel like bodily upkeep and repair doesn't require a lot of protein.

I also feel like it shouldn't take 100-200g more than that low upkeep figure to gain a lb of muscle a week (being optimistic) unless absorption above whatever it takes for upkeep is INSANELY low.

If you look at what's necessary given 100% utilization and some other assumptions:

86.1825503g / 7days = 12.3117929g per day (above bodily upkeep needs) to build a lb in a week.


That would mean that given some of my above assumptions, protein beyond upkeep needs is only utilized at like ~10% or maybe less. Maybe protein isn't utilized very well at all above homeostasis, I don't know. the idea immediately brings up some red flags for me though. I'mma read those two links posted above.

There are tons of factors involved here. You can eat a low protein diet and high carbohydrate diet and yet still be muscular and lean. There are tribes that were recently (~ decades) discovered where this was their diets. The body has very intelligent processes that can convert nutrients to other forms in order of what they need. Source - The Kitavins. Clearly the body has very intelligent systems in place to convert nutrients into other forms depending upon what it requires -- most of these which aren't fully understood yet.

Now, the the following is 6 years old but it is from (the late) Iron Addict who was beyond a great and knowledgeable trainer. This post was regarding if extreme protein is required. I would find more studies, articles, and present more arguments to you Timedog why your above assertion is likely insufficient but I need to get to work -- so I'll let Iron Addict tell you:

Warning: Some BroScience is involved.

I know and work with a lot of talented BB’ers and PL’ers and every SUCCESSFUL one will tell you the body needs EXTREME protein intake levels if you are to ever do well lifting and adding mass. Of course there are plenty of buck-sixty pound guys out there that will quote studies telling you that it is not needed.

I am constantly bombarded with posts from under 200 lb guys saying things like “I heard that the body can only assimilate 30-35 grams at a time” or the super MORONIC statement that is even more frequently heard “I don’t want to “waste” protein”. Oh really? It’s OK to drive to the gym, workout 2-6 days a week, spend countless hours lifting and prepping meals and spending God knows how much a month on mostly USELESS supplements (there are great ones, most guys buy the flashy crap ones though because of the marketing hype), and then after all that time, money and effort, they “are worried about “wasting” a bit of protein? Please, get real.

You need to understand that before a single gram of protein will be used for growth, first overall metabolic needs must be attended to. Then you need to take in to account all the micro-trauma that heavy training creates. Your body must use the ingested protein to first just synthesize protein just to heal what was damaged and get you back to square one before any additional mass will be accrued.

Now comes the big kicker that almost everyone here reading this is CLUELESS about—how little actual protein content is in the food you eat. When many see a recommendation that a 200 lb guy trying to add mass should get 375-400 grams of protein a day many flip-out. That is nuts! No one could use or possibly have a need for that much protein---WRONG! Just because 8 ounces of steak with fat has about 60 grams of protein, the average guy assumes that 400 grams of actual protein is a HUGE amount. IT IS NOT! 8 ounces of steak is mostly water and other constituents that do NOT count as the protein count.

But instead of taking my word for it, you do the math and find out how much ACTUAL PROTEIN is in an amount you would consider HUGE, and then think about what your overall bodyweight is and how tore-up a hard workout makes you feel.

http://www.sciencelab.com/data/conversions/weight.shtml

Did you do the math? What do you think now?

Iron Addict

Iron Addcit Source
 
As far as bodily functions and muscle recovery, (and this is completely anecdotal but I'm guessing most of us know people like this) I've had friends that worked out a lot, ate "normallly", and didn't grow much if at all in size probably because of their average diets. With their 50-60g of protein a day or whatever and normal amount of calories they weren't LOSING muscle. So I feel like bodily upkeep and repair doesn't require a lot of protein.

I also feel like it shouldn't take 100-200g more than that low upkeep figure to gain a lb of muscle a week (being optimistic) unless absorption above whatever it takes for upkeep is INSANELY low.

If you look at what's necessary given 100% utilization and some other assumptions:

86.1825503g / 7days = 12.3117929g per day (above bodily upkeep needs) to build a lb in a week.


That would mean that given some of my above assumptions, protein beyond upkeep needs is only utilized at like ~10% or maybe less. Maybe protein isn't utilized very well at all above homeostasis, I don't know. the idea immediately brings up some red flags for me though. I'mma read those two links posted above.

What are you trying to achieve by arguing this point?
 

Szu

Member
Great read. Incidentally, there was a New Years Resolutioner taking 15 fucking minutes to, you guess it curl, at the only squat rack.

It's funny how many people just grind their gears without anything to show.

Reminds of the Martin Berkhams fuckarounditis post.

There's one guy in my gym who I've known for about 2 years now. When we first met, he had a training buddy and they we just trying everything in the gym without any direction.

After a few months, his training buddy disappears, but he still shows up. He decided that he will only do barbell curls because it was the only workout that was comfortable and he wanted to work out his arms.

He asked me for some advice, because I think he wanted arms like mine. However, I pointed out that focusing on your biceps alone won't do much for him. I recommended that he learn and try other workouts to maximize his time at the gym.

Two years later, the guy almost looks exactly the same. Granted, he did lose a little weight because of the occasional cardio. He still curls the same amount of weight too.

Some men just don't want to learn.
 

Petrie

Banned
There's one guy in my gym who I've known for about 2 years now. When we first met, he had a training buddy and they we just trying everything in the gym without any direction.

After a few months, his training buddy disappears, but he still shows up. He decided that he will only do barbell curls because it was the only workout that was comfortable and he wanted to work out his arms.

He asked me for some advice, because I think he wanted arms like mine. However, I pointed out that focusing on your biceps alone won't do much for him. I recommended that he learn and try other workouts to maximize his time at the gym.

Two years later, the guy almost looks exactly the same. Granted, he did lose a little weight because of the occasional cardio. He still curls the same amount of weight too.

Some men just don't want to learn.
I know I wouldn't be able to bring myself to show up at the gym all that time with no results. My god.
 

entremet

Member
This makes no sense at all. You can be in shape while not looking like she-Hulk.

Apparently she's natural. She actually turned down a lucrative fitness modelling contract since it required a legal steroid, which clashed with her Christian beliefs. Anna Watson is her name. Google Anna Watson Georgia State and you'll see she's pretty buff.

She had great numbers for her weight in the major lifts as well.

http://www.dietsinreview.com/diet_column/01/georgia-cheerleader-strong-in-mind-and-body/
 

Enco

Member
There's one guy in my gym who I've known for about 2 years now. When we first met, he had a training buddy and they we just trying everything in the gym without any direction.

After a few months, his training buddy disappears, but he still shows up. He decided that he will only do barbell curls because it was the only workout that was comfortable and he wanted to work out his arms.

He asked me for some advice, because I think he wanted arms like mine. However, I pointed out that focusing on your biceps alone won't do much for him. I recommended that he learn and try other workouts to maximize his time at the gym.

Two years later, the guy almost looks exactly the same. Granted, he did lose a little weight because of the occasional cardio. He still curls the same amount of weight too.

Some men just don't want to learn.

This is just so sad.

Slow progress is all good but zero progress after two years? What a waste of time.

Edit: today I saw two girls come in, contemplate what to do an end up using the crotch machine.

On Monday I saw a girl come in with a guy and she refused several suggestions because "she had no muscle there".
 

Szu

Member
On Monday I saw a girl come in with a guy and she refused several suggestions because "she had no muscle there".

This reminds me of that DS9 episode when Quark was hooking up with the Klingon chick. Worf was training him and Quark commented that he hates exercise because it makes him sweat.
 

Tater Tot

"My God... it's full of Starch!"
I started noticing better chest development. My chest now has a much fuller square look. However I noticed that my chest did not fill up all the way to my clavicles... How do I make them fill up to there?
 

Trey

Member
I started noticing better chest development. My chest now has a much fuller square look. However I noticed that my chest did not fill up all the way to my clavicles... How do I make them fill up to there?

Take your body out to dinner every night, treat it nice, keep it happy. It may just give you what you want.

Since we're on the topic of "those guys at the gym", I have one: this man makes a circuit including things like the squat rack and bench with random weights so it's unlikely anyone would be able to jump in with him. Then he sits and talks for minutes at a time while holding up these various weightlifting stations. I don't know what kind of arrogance it takes to think you can claim half the gym as your own, at your own leisure.
 

Szu

Member
I started noticing better chest development. My chest now has a much fuller square look. However I noticed that my chest did not fill up all the way to my clavicles... How do I make them fill up to there?

The clavicle area is a little tricky because it's also close to the shoulder region. Incline press and military presses will probably stimulate that area. Incline DB flys with a slight under-hand twist at the end motion might give you an extra burn in that area too.
 
lol. The funny thing is that he was making fun of my dat ass.
In 20+ years he'll have nothing to sit on and you'll have an even better body than you did as a young man. Especially if he has a sitting job, those glutes will stretch out and weaken until nothing is holding his pants shape. In any case, in my experience ladies like dat ass on us as much as we do on them.
 

gdt

Member
Man, for whatever reason, doing the bench press/sqaut/deadlifts just wiped me out. I had to take a longer break between sets too. I was literally dripping sweat (of course, this was after a mile of running, but I never sweat like that) too. Any reason why I got so wiped? Yesterday was my rest day too (only do cardio, running then bike).

On a maybe related note, did anyone get their whey protein from VitaminWorld yet? Or figure out some way to track it?
 

Mr.City

Member
Man, for whatever reason, doing the bench press/sqaut/deadlifts just wiped me out. I had to take a longer break between sets too. I was literally dripping sweat (of course, this was after a mile of running, but I never sweat like that) too. Any reason why I got so wiped? Yesterday was my rest day too (only do cardio, running then bike).

On a maybe related note, did anyone get their whey protein from VitaminWorld yet? Or figure out some way to track it?

Welp, if you're increasing the weight, then so the recovery demands go up.

and

Yesterday was my rest day too (only do cardio, running then bike).

I don't think you know what rest day means.
 
Man, for whatever reason, doing the bench press/sqaut/deadlifts just wiped me out. I had to take a longer break between sets too. I was literally dripping sweat (of course, this was after a mile of running, but I never sweat like that) too. Any reason why I got so wiped? Yesterday was my rest day too (only do cardio, running then bike).

On a maybe related note, did anyone get their whey protein from VitaminWorld yet? Or figure out some way to track it?
Is there a reason you're doing cardio before lifting? I'd do a little to get your body warm but 1 mile of running before lifting seems excessive, unless you are focusing on conditioning and not strength.

This has happened to me sometimes. I think it may be diet, possibly stress. Have you changed anything in your diet? Just try to rest longer between sets and get through it. For me it is a very rare thing.

Another thing is how long have you been training? If you've been lifting heavy 3-4x a week for a while, you might need a light week.
 

harSon

Banned
I'm pretty sure I overworked it the other day.

I did Insanity in the morning (Pure Cardio and Cardio Abs), weight lifted, played an hour or so of tennis shortly after, played 4-5 games of full court basketball and then went on a 4-5 mile jog directly after that. I'm not really in shape, and have only been working heavily for a little over a month now, but I was feeling particularly energetic and fit this day.

I had what I thought was a cramp in my lower abdominal/pelvic area half way through all of this, but I kept on anyways. That night it was pretty painful to walk/bend due to some pretty intense soreness in the same area where I was feeling that "cramp," and that worsened quite a bit the following morning.

It's starting to get a lot better, I'm able to walk/twist/bend fairly well now, but there's still a noticeable pain and discomfort. I'm going to just take it easy for a few more days, and if it still hurts I'll go to a doctor.

Anyone know what it is? Overworking out on a body that's no where near ready for it? Or did I injure something? I'd go to the doctors sooner but its a nuisance since insurance (Kaiser) isn't present in the city I go to College in, so I have to drive an Hour+ to go to the hospital...
 

Enco

Member
This reaction is always hilarious. It's like "that's the damn point!"
Yup. Exactly what I thought.

This reminds me of that DS9 episode when Quark was hooking up with the Klingon chick. Worf was training him and Quark commented that he hates exercise because it makes him sweat.
:lol

Never watched that but yes it does seem pretty similar haha
 

gdt

Member
Welp, if you're increasing the weight, then so the recovery demands go up.

and



I don't think you know what rest day means.

I didn't increase this week though, but I did last Monday.


And yeah, I'm going a little rough right now, might change it up soon.

Bah, I'll just let it go, one day isn't a big deal.
 
How do you prevent knees from buckling inward on squats? Force them out on the way up?
Become stronger. :lol


I usually got a bit of caving in if i just upped the weight, but after one or two sessions its gone and i'm able to do that weight without knees going inward. And then i increase the weight and repeat the cycle.
 

gdt

Member
Is there a reason you're doing cardio before lifting? I'd do a little to get your body warm but 1 mile of running before lifting seems excessive, unless you are focusing on conditioning and not strength.

This has happened to me sometimes. I think it may be diet, possibly stress. Have you changed anything in your diet? Just try to rest longer between sets and get through it. For me it is a very rare thing.

Another thing is how long have you been training? If you've been lifting heavy 3-4x a week for a while, you might need a light week.

I basically like to warm up, yeah, and plus I do love running. I lost a lot of weight a few years ago just running (and a bit of a diet, of course). This time, I wanted to do weight training as well, for a tighter body. Right now, I would probably say I'm focusing on conditioning, and when I hit a weight where I look good, I'll start focusing more on strength.

Edit: I think this is the fourth week. I'm seeing great results, and have dropped about 12lbs and I can see major changes in my muscles. Neck, chest, legs, arms, etc. The gut has got to go dammit!

On a side note, I'm hitting just about every single muscle group, but I'm not really doing anything for my core/abs. Whats better, straight crunches, abdominals, or planks?
 

Szu

Member
I'm pretty sure I overworked it the other day.

I did Insanity in the morning (Pure Cardio and Cardio Abs), weight lifted, played an hour or so of tennis shortly after, played 4-5 games of full court basketball and then went on a 4-5 mile jog directly after that. I'm not really in shape, and have only been working heavily for a little over a month now, but I was feeling particularly energetic and fit this day.

I had what I thought was a cramp in my lower abdominal/pelvic area half way through all of this, but I kept on anyways. That night it was pretty painful to walk/bend due to some pretty intense soreness in the same area where I was feeling that "cramp," and that worsened quite a bit the following morning.

It's starting to get a lot better, I'm able to walk/twist/bend fairly well now, but there's still a noticeable pain and discomfort. I'm going to just take it easy for a few more days, and if it still hurts I'll go to a doctor.

Anyone know what it is? Overworking out on a body that's no where near ready for it? Or did I injure something? I'd go to the doctors sooner but its a nuisance since insurance (Kaiser) isn't present in the city I go to College in, so I have to drive an Hour+ to go to the hospital...

It might be a result of just overworking.

The worst case scenario would be a hernia.
 

Mr.City

Member
Edit: I think this is the fourth week. I'm seeing great results, and have dropped about 12lbs and I can see major changes in my muscles. Neck, chest, legs, arms, etc. The gut has got to go dammit!

On a side note, I'm hitting just about every single muscle group, but I'm not really doing anything for my core/abs. Whats better, straight crunches, abdominals, or planks?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HZfGwQVLL0

This'll hit your abs hard
 
first real day at the gym was more or less a success. Was way less packed so I didn't have to wait for anything and I felt less embarrassed then I thought I would. I am doing a 5x5 routine since a friend suggested it over the workout in the 1st post.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
first real day at the gym was more or less a success. Was way less packed so I didn't have to wait for anything and I felt less embarrassed then I thought I would. I am doing a 5x5 routine since a friend suggested it over the workout in the 1st post.

Sitting your ass on the couch is something to be embarrassed about. Going to the gym and putting in the work, no matter what you look like and what numbers you're capable of pulling, is the opposite of that.

At my current BJJ school I'm training with a bunch of elite badasses doing hardcore conditioning training and I'm severely out of shape in comparison. I'm the low bar, the last place finisher in all the drills, including guys twice my age and guys with half of my BJJ experience. You could look at it like "rutger_hauer_blade_runner.gif" or you could look at it like "well then, that means that if you keep at it then you'll eventually be on par, since you're doing the same training they are." I feel like throwing my blue belt in the trash sometimes, but I gotta remind myself that I'm down >110 pounds in the last couple years and I've put in my work, the goalposts have just moved from "fat--->normal" to "normal--->athlete." So I suck it up and keep going.
 

gdt

Member
Yeah. In the morning, when I go, there are lots of overweight peoples and old people, and I think it's inspiring.

Of course, these same old people can't keep their fucking clothes on in the locker room! Walking around with a towel slung over the shoulder dammit.
 
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