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Football Thread 13/14 |OT11| Schlong Days, Kipless Nights

That's not fair. Some players get yellows for dives, and others don't. Rooney had a dive against Hull and didn't get a yellow. Welbeck had a dive against you guys and didn't see a yellow. Januzaj didn't even dive yesterday, but got a yellow.

5trig.gif


Rose wasn't even playing the ball.

he dove like a fat kid at a swimming pool. fuckin shameful.

edit: i hope no else is using Kolo.
 

GorillaJu

Member
That's not fair. Some players get yellows for dives, and others don't. Rooney had a dive against Hull and didn't get a yellow. Welbeck had a dive against you guys and didn't see a yellow. Januzaj didn't even dive yesterday, but got a yellow.

5trig.gif


Rose wasn't even playing the ball.

He just chose to go down there, for sure. He could have easily stayed up, but he wanted to win the foul. Januzaj is really strong, much stronger than he looks, and is always using his body to keep possession or hold up play.

Danny Rose was trying to get to the ball, Januzaj did well to shield it with his leg, but then chose to go to ground when he realized he wasn't going to get to the ball first.

To the next OP maker, please do not include the Sturridge one since his head is cut off at the top.
 

Yurt

il capo silenzioso
All this CL talk is making me depressed. We seriously fucked up in Europe this year. Especially considering how important it is for us financially, given that Serie A is pretty much in the toilet right now and will likely stay there for the forseeable future. Granted, we would have crashed out of CL sooner rather than later anyway, seeing how there are teams that are clearly better equipped to win it, and I've seen the reports about how we won't be losing that much money because of EL after all. Maybe 10-15M€ or something like that. Regardless, it's still a pretty big blow, reputation and prestige-wise, if nothing else.

We Juve-bros like to talk and joke about how cursed we are in Europe and there have been times in the past where bad luck certainly did play a role. The latest example being the two-day snowfest that was Istanbul. At the core though, it's our fucking mentality that needs to change once and for all. It is my firm conviction that a substantial part of our problems in Europe stem from our historic, club wide obsession with winning the scudetto. Which is a consequence of us being the most loved & hated club in Italy and the one with the biggest fanbase. It feels like the pressure is always there, unlike with, say, Milan. Also, we'll sometimes go for the italian player rather than the "exotic" foreigner, because he's already used to playing in Serie A. We'll insist on playing with a certain formation - Conte's current 3-5-2 comes to mind - that works very well in the domestic league, but clearly isn't well-suited for Europe. We'll go for a type of condition training that is supposed to keep us in "solid" shape throughout the year, rather than having our players in top, top shape in the two, three months that are crucial for CL football. And so on.

Conte pls.

I think you nailed it, and I'm part of the problem
KuGsj.gif


Please understand Zabo
you do, I know
, we just want ONE more Scudetto.

just one

and then fuck the league for at least 12 years. I know it's in the back of Conte's mind too.

I'm pretty sure we'll go all out in Europe next year, Milan style. Or Conte is better off going to Arsenal.
 

bjaelke

Member
I think you nailed it, and I'm part of the problem
KuGsj.gif


Please understand Zabo
you do, I know
, we just want ONE more Scudetto.

just one

and then fuck the league for at least 12 years. I know it's in the back of Conte's mind too.

I'm pretty sure we'll go all out in Europe next year, Milan style. Or Conte is better off going to Arsenal.

Who should replace Conte then? Il Trap?
 

bjaelke

Member
Cardiff City FC ‏@CardiffCityFC 40s
BREAKING: @CardiffCityFC are delighted to confirm the arrival of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer as first team manager. pic.twitter.com/8tisnayWDu

7WlwJtE.jpg
 

Manager

Member
Does anyone know anything about the Argentinian league?

It seems to be cut in half seasons, Torneo Inicial and Torneo Final. The fall 2013 stage, Torneo Inicial, has a fucked up table though. Boca 7th, River Plate 17th and Racing 19th even though they are supposed to be big clubs.

I know Racing has financial troubles and I think River Plate has been shit for a couple of years, so what has happened with the financial situation over there?

edit
Hmm: http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1167...tina-s-traditional-big-two-finding-life-tough

Argentina's traditional "big two" finding life tough

....

In mitigation the traditional "big two" would point to the effect of the general financial problems in Argentinian football which have caused them to sell players to European clubs at an increasingly young age, which in turn prevents them from building a settled squad.

In the past River and Boca represented a middle step in a playing career, where emerging footballers could enjoy some years of success before crossing the ocean; now, as as soon as youngsters stand out, they board in a plane to Europe. Furthermore, Mexican and Brazilian teams currently tend to have more stable finances and attract both average Argentinian players and rising stars from around South America who in the old days would have played in Argentina.

Still doesn't explain why the big ones can't keep up with the rest of the clubs...
 

Elchele

Member
Does anyone know anything about the Argentinian league?

It seems to be cut in half seasons, Torneo Inicial and Torneo Final. The fall 2013 stage, Torneo Inicial, has a fucked up table though. Boca 7th, River Plate 17th and Racing 19th even though they are supposed to be big clubs.

I know Racing has financial troubles and I think River Plate has been shit for a couple of years, so what has happened with the financial situation over there?

I'll start watching it when this tournament starts, and yes Boca and River have been shit for a while now. River just changed president a few days ago, they hated the previous president they had... they boo'd him at the press conferences, etc.

Racing has been shit for years, no?

The best teams currently are Newell's (thanks to Tata Martino), Lanús and San Lorenzo (but Pizzi left to Valencia).
 

Manager

Member
I'll start watching it when this tournament starts, and yes Boca and River have been shit for a while now. River just changed president a few days ago, they hated the previous president they had... they boo'd him at the press conferences, etc.

Racing has been shit for years, no?

The best teams currently are Newell's (thanks to Tata Martino), Lanús and San Lorenzo (but Pizzi left to Valencia).

Do you know what the difference is between the stages in status? Can you win or get relegated in Inicial or only Final?

Regarding River Plate, from 2011 when they were supposed to be relegated:
The Argentinian football world was tilted off its axis this June when River Plate were relegated to the second division for the first time in their 110-year history. Over a decade of financial mismanagement and several years of poor results on the pitch consigned the once-mighty Millionarios to their darkest hour; losing a two-legged relegation playoff match against the spirited but modest second division outfit Belgrano de Cordoba to tumble gracelessly into the lower leagues.

Nobody could believe it. The thought of top flight football in Argentina without River Plate was all but impossible for people to get their heads around. River ‘fans’ rioted after the defeat to Belgrano, doing unspeakable damage to their own magnificent stadium, El Monumental, in the process. Most of the rest of the country had a right old chuckle about it, but there was no hiding a sense of deep shock all round as the reality set in.

The game in Argentina is forever teetering on the brink of financial crisis, and River’s relegation will be a huge blow for the AFA, football’s national governing body. The club itself is sure to suffer economically due to a drop in income from television rights. They will be forced to sell off many of their most talented young players, which will make their quest to return to the first division as soon as possible all the more difficult. Several former stars have indicated they would be willing to take a pay cut and return to help out the club, which is an encouraging sign.
http://www.therealargentina.com/arg...e-superclasico-for-now-river-plate-relegated/

edit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2012/10/river_plate_v_boca_juniors_-_w.html

River Plate v Boca Juniors - where has the magic gone?

....

But in terms of technical quality it is hard to believe there have been many worse matches in the century of rivalry between these two great clubs. Neither side was consistently capable of stringing three passes together.

The dismal level of play reflected the shock experienced by Maxi Rodriguez a few months ago, when after a decade in Europe the midfielder left Liverpool to rejoin his home town club Newells Old Boys in Rosario.

"The standard of football has got worse in the last ten years," he said of his return to the Argentine game. "The games increasingly lack flow. There is much more running and battling than before. There is huge fear of losing, and aesthetic considerations are no longer a priority."

Much of this has to do with the decline of the old fashioned Argentine number ten, the elegant, foot-on-the-ball playmaker who orchestrates his side's attack. The physical evolution referred to by Rodriguez and the use of two central midfield destroyers have reduced his space and all but squeezed him out of existence.

Neither side in Sunday's derby fielded such a player - though the ghost of the number ten was there to haunt the occasion.

....

But if the number tens need to evolve, then so do the others. In a perfect midfield, everyone is an all rounder. But it seems that in Argentina the removal of the number ten is exposing all the more the limitations of the other midfielders.
As hinted by Maxi Rodriguez, there is an excess of runners and battlers, and a dearth of old fashioned quality.

Thankfully this is not reflected in the national team, who have played some dazzling football in the last year. Most of these players came through in the golden age of Argentina's youth structure, when they won the World Cup at Under-20 level five times between 1995 and 2007.

But youth specialists in the country have been warning for a while that standards are slipping - and Argentina's Under-20 teams in 2009 and 2011 were very disappointing.

As a huge fan of well-played Argentine football, I hope the decline can be halted and reversed. It would be great to think that occasions such as the River-Boca derby could be celebrated not just for its historical resonance and the intensity of the atmosphere, but also for the quality of the play.
 

Zabojnik

Member
I think you nailed it, and I'm part of the problem
KuGsj.gif


Please understand Zabo
you do, I know
, we just want ONE more Scudetto.

just one

and then fuck the league for at least 12 years. I know it's in the back of Conte's mind too.

I'm pretty sure we'll go all out in Europe next year, Milan style. Or Conte is better off going to Arsenal.

I really hope so. Nobody is even asking him to win the CL. It's next to impossible, when there are clubs that can afford to spend 100M€ on a single player. Just play like you fucking mean it, for once.

Who should replace Conte then? Il Trap?

I wish.

but it's going to be Cesare Prandelli.

Well, we could do a lot worse, I'll say that.
 

Elchele

Member
Do you know what the difference is between the stages in status? Can you win or get relegated in Inicial or only Final?

Regarding River Plate, from 2011 when they were supposed to be relegated:


edit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2012/10/river_plate_v_boca_juniors_-_w.html

They're basically the same season, torneo inicial is the first and final, the end of the season. You get relegated after the final, but the performance in both tournaments counts towards relegation battle:

The relegation (or average) table is the table that averages the points over the last 3 seasons (each season consisting of two tournaments, "Inicial" and "Final"). Teams that have recently been promoted will only have one or two seasons counted under this table (and therefore less games played), thus each point they score increases their average more than the teams that have 3 seasons played.

Supposedly, the way the relegation coefficient works, it helps traditional teams not to get relegated. And still River managed to get relegated :lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_Argentine_Primera_División_season#Relegation

It's a mess, I don't know why they don't put the normal long season like they had before. These two tournaments bullshit are pretty much a standard in Latin America now...

And yes, what Maxi says is true. Actually that's why Tata Martino was so hyped here during his period at Newell's... they were playing like an european club, with possession based system and such, they played like a poor man's Barcelona. The contrast was huge compared to mid and low table clubs.
 

Wes

venison crêpe
Cardiff City FC ‏@CardiffCityFC 40s
BREAKING: @CardiffCityFC are delighted to confirm the arrival of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer as first team manager. pic.twitter.com/8tisnayWDu

7WlwJtE.jpg

Got to think the rumours about him getting a pile of money in the transfer market is true for him to accept the job.
 

sohois

Member
Does anyone know anything about the Argentinian league?

It seems to be cut in half seasons, Torneo Inicial and Torneo Final. The fall 2013 stage, Torneo Inicial, has a fucked up table though. Boca 7th, River Plate 17th and Racing 19th even though they are supposed to be big clubs.

I know Racing has financial troubles and I think River Plate has been shit for a couple of years, so what has happened with the financial situation over there?

edit
Hmm: http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1167...tina-s-traditional-big-two-finding-life-tough

Still doesn't explain why the big ones can't keep up with the rest of the clubs...

Outside of the mega bucks European leagues the concept of big clubs is far more nebulous. In fact in many respects it's much like what the European leagues were before the influx of TV money. Not more than 30 years ago a team could slip out of the top rankings just like that. A Moyes-esque decision would see a club relegated with ease. It's no doubt the same in these smaller leagues were money hasn't thoroughly infested the system. Argentina in particular will have had it rough due to the economic mismanagement of the recent governments, as can be indirectly observed by the constant bleating over the Falklands. Just look at someone like Dario Conca. A great player in Brazil, he could easily have been a force in the Argentine leagues but none of them had a hope of competing with the absurd money of China.
 

Manager

Member
They're basically the same season, torneo inicial is the first and final, the end of the season. You get relegated after the final, but the performance in both tournaments counts towards relegation battle:



Supposedly, the way the relegation coefficient works, it helps traditional teams not to get relegated. And still River managed to get relegated :lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_Argentine_Primera_División_season#Relegation

It's a mess, I don't know why they don't put the normal long season like they had before. These two tournaments bullshit are pretty much a standard in Latin America now...

And yes, what Maxi says is true. Actually that's why Tata Martino was so hyped here during his period at Newell's... they were playing like an european club, with possession based system and such, they played like a poor man's Barcelona. The contrast was huge compared to mid and low table clubs.

Thanks, what a mess. Interesting with Tata, guess it explains a bit why they picked him.

Do you know anything about Bruno Zuculini at Racing? City bought him last month (£2m) but won't get him until after Final. He was promising (but had expiring contract) and seems to be box-to-box, just a bit random that they would get him of all players in the world.

Outside of the mega bucks European leagues the concept of big clubs is far more nebulous. In fact in many respects it's much like what the European leagues were before the influx of TV money. Not more than 30 years ago a team could slip out of the top rankings just like that. A Moyes-esque decision would see a club relegated with ease. It's no doubt the same in these smaller leagues were money hasn't thoroughly infested the system. Argentina in particular will have had it rough due to the economic mismanagement of the recent governments, as can be indirectly observed by the constant bleating over the Falklands. Just look at someone like Dario Conca. A great player in Brazil, he could easily have been a force in the Argentine leagues but none of them had a hope of competing with the absurd money of China.

Thanks, is it a similar situation in Brazil atm you think? They also too always seemed to have financial troubles but at least they are currently producing talents which they can sell.
 

Yen

Member
Day 5, BT yet to fix the broadband in my area. Bastards.

Doing revision, listening to music so here's my AOTYs:
Chrvches
Lorde
Arcade Fire
QOTSA
Biffy Clyro (because they were v good live)

Also started listening to Lana Del Rey. Enjoying it, after engaging in the gaf negativity pile-upon when she first appeared.


Sullivan's son is a right little gobshite like.
Isn't he about 9?
 

Elchele

Member
Thanks, what a mess. Interesting with Tata, guess it explains a bit why they picked him.

Do you know anything about Bruno Zuculini at Racing? City bought him last month (£2m) but won't get him until after Final. He was promising (but had expiring contract) and seems to be box-to-box, just a bit random that they would get him of all players in the world.

Zuculini's name has been around for quite a time now and he's still very young, so I guess he's very talented. Never seen him play personally, but I guess he'll need a time on loan somewhere before having a change to start for City. At least Pellegrini knows how to deal with young players.

Thanks, is it a similar situation in Brazil atm you think? They also too always seemed to have financial troubles but at least they are currently producing talents which they can sell.

Not really, Brazil clubs do have money to lure players. Actually the talented players from Argentina are bought by brazilian clubs nowdays. Scocco was Newell's striker when they won the league with Tata Martino and they had to sell him to Inter (Porto) after the tournament to pay debts. And he doesn't even play in Brazil at all.

There is a lot of talent in Argentina football, but most of them rush their way out (looking for better financial situation) and end up joining leagues in China, Qatar, USA, etc. Or they leave too early to Europe.
 
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