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[ZPs]

Makes sense.

However, there are also people that have been trying to make it in their field for several years. They've exhausted every possible option, but they also can't walk away.

Though, reading your post again, I guess the key words here are "intelligently" and "early".

The key thing is having a plan in mind. Broadcasting has more protection than say doing Art does because the work product being put out is directly tied to you (ie: vocals, face, etc).

I think a key thing is if you were doing artwork, music, etc for some form of startup (but had faith in the idea), you'd want to secure some portion of ownership in lieu of payment if there weren't funds available. It's not so much working for free as much as making sure that if things do well that you have an asset you can fall back on so that your work wasn't for nothing.

 

[ZPs]

Of course there are. However this thread, and the twitter account, are to draw attention to those huge windows where someone is using the excuse "for exposure" as an out to keep from paying people for a project.

Definitely. I just made my post moreso as a PSA that people shouldn't always instinctively recoil at situations where there's work for less payment than they might otherwise want. Because there's definitely situations where it makes sense, and outright dismissing it can deprive you of some otherwise excellent opportunities.

 

[The Albatross]

That last one in the OP has to be fake......

It has to.......


Please

 

[Anticol]

Programming for exposure ia the stupidest thing I've heard. People who want others to work fr free while they get all the benefits can fucked themselves.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I work as a chef/cook.

People come up to me "Hey wow, you can cook...can you cater my party?"

"Alright what's your budget?"

"Budget? cant you just cook for me?"

"Well who's going to buy the food?"

"Dont you make the food?"

".........."

Omg, this slayed me. How do these people function on a daily basis? They think chefs and cooks conjure food out of thin air? Like, what

 

[TurboLibre]

Imposter syndrome hits me hard, so I have a very difficult time asking for money because I feel like I'm swindling them. I'm a perfect mark for people like this.

 

[LordKasual]

the anime avatar is the icing on the cake

 

[shaneo632]

This is extremely common in journalism. The number of sites I wrote for as a youngster that were worth at least a few hundred thousand bucks but "couldn't" throw contributors £15 for an article they'd be making several times that on.

I sometimes get acquaintances asking me to proof their novels/essays but as soon as I start talking about an hourly rate they tend to never bring it up again.

 

[HotHamBoy]

I think this might be the saddest thing I've ever read.

 

[sans_pants]

Yeah, it's worse for writers when the barrier for entry is even lower and there are dozens of platforms that exist on a "for exposure" basis.

The funny thing is that there are probably some creative industries that are safe. No one is going to beg a video editor or sound engineer to do shit for them for free. People just have this weird double standard.

I have trouble getting pay for actual technical skill like camera tracking and motion graphics

 

[Zeyphersan]

Friend of mine is an artist and I commissioned him for a painting I wanted to hang in my living rock a while back. Never ended up actually happening but I 100% offered to pay him for it. Just because he’s my friend doesn’t mean his time and talent doesn’t have value, even for me

 

[AtomskEater]

I knew a kid in high school who basically tried to use me as an art factory. I drew him one little thing of like a dog with one of those Naruto headbands doing a backflip or something and next thing I knew he hit me with a list of 5 things he wanted me to draw, including like... Renamon squatting while wearing daisy dukes. I still remember the absurdity of that request to this day.

Yep.

I'm very guilty of this. I do game reviewing on the side, but I keep taking unpaid gigs. Why? Because I enjoy writing. I've tried to quit a few times, but I get so bored and restless that I end up going back.

What's really funny (and sad) about "exposure" is that I used to write reviews on Steam. When your review is featured on the very same page as the purchase button, you can't get anymore exposure than that.

I keep telling myself that one day I'll actually put together a resume and start shopping around for paid work. Thing is, I don't have the confidence to pull it off.

Sucks.

Doooo it. I mean don't quit your day job right away but in your spare time you may as well put something together and start contacting outlets. Especially if people think your reviews are informative and entertaining. And even if you get rejected, you can try asking for weak points or things to improve upon. Don't let your dreams be dreams!

Spoiler

I say as I let my dreams be dreams.

 

[farisr]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1344063

 

[HotHamBoy]

Drawing should be free, you take a short time to put a line drawing down. I sew, and the material cost is worth the money over paper scraps.

While I'm all for commissions and what have you, beginning artists have to work for free to get paid by others.

NO there is no pay. I have unlimited ideas on how to generate money but that SHOULD NOT be the most important thing to you right now.

There's no pay but I'm no quitter and I can't stand slackers. I need you to be AMBITIOUS AS FCK, excuse the lango, but I'm extremely serious

You're likely the sort of person who cries to @forexposure_txt and circlejerks about randos asking for free stuff with other 'artists'

Ask before reposting art?
This is the most @forexposure_txt cock sucking retarded attitude ive ever seen
the artist isnt even good lel

what sort of backwards thinking (((artist))) thinks that sharing pictures online is theft

I'm upset the artists scoff at the idea of working just for exposure.

What if I know I'm worth more than the artist?

 

[Drain You]

"Don't DW Me" is absolutely the best thing I've read today.

 

[ultracal31]

Frustrating that it happens often as most people don't understand what goes into it or it's that weird double standard about art.

Case in point, friend wanted computer art piece and I gave him my low ball price to which I got:

"why would I pay you? Doesn't the computer do it all for you?"

 

[Grenchel]

I've found, a lot of the time, that the people asking for free work are usually the ones that have such a vague understanding of what they are trying to accomplish. Like, they just decided to put something together with no thought and want to get other people on it.

 

[Alcotholic]

Some people go to art school so they make art for others for free.

 

[thechristoph]

I'm assuming the people making these requests are very young. I can't imagine a rational adult believing that telling someone they're selfish will get them to even do a favor for free.

 

[hypernima]

I'm assuming the people making these requests are very young. I can't imagine a rational adult believing that telling someone they're selfish will get them to even do a favor for free.

You'd be surprised.

 

[PSqueak]

I'm assuming the people making these requests are very young. I can't imagine a rational adult believing that telling someone they're selfish will get them to even do a favor for free.

I remember when i was this naive.

 

[MC Safety]

Everyone wants the writer and the artist to work for free, because everyone knows anyone can write and drawing is fun!

Meanwhile, as Harlan Ellison says, these requests are made by people who wouldn't go two seconds without being paid.

(I also love for exposure, the Twitter.)

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

This shit makes my blood boil. Learning to draw is an arduous process that never really ends. Yet alone the actual work process once you reach the point where your art is presentable.

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

"(((artist)))"

 

[Poppy]

i really just don't understand how anyone could be so fucking dumb and entitled

even though i grew up pretty privileged and got a fair amount of material things without making an effort, i still worked for money at various points in time. so i cant understand even a dumbass teenager acting like this, let alone an adult

i have never once thought i was entitled to receive something that someone worked on for free, no matter what it was

like what

 

[joe2187]

This one just writes itself

 

[TetraGenesis]

I have to be up in six hours and I spent the last one and a half scrolling through that Twitter feed. God, it's so funny, so stupid, and so, so upsetting.

 

[davepoobond]

Yeah I've had that happen a couple times too. "You'll get a lot more work from other places!"

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Omg, this slayed me. How do these people function on a daily basis? They think chefs and cooks conjure food out of thin air? Like, what

They don't think that happens, they just literally don't think beyond the instance of chefs making food.

It's less "omg you believe in magic" and more "you simply don't think beyond what is convenient for you".

It could also be a case of over-thinking due to generalization. They might think every chef has a garden.

 

[joe2187]

They don't think that happens, they just literally don't think beyond the instance of chefs making food.

It's less "omg you believe in magic" and more "you simply don't think beyond what is convenient for you".

It could also be a case of over-thinking due to generalization. They might think every chef has a garden.

Pretty much.

Also, why wont you cater my party for free? it's only for 100 people, I need alcohol and enough hors d'oeuvres for all of them....what do you think about lamb? cooking aint that hard and it's only a bit of food, you make it look so easy so let me know because the party is tomorrow.

 

[Mr. F]

As a graphic designer these hit painfully close to home lol.

Although it's hard to be surprised at wider attitudes devaluing the monetary value of producing creative work when people aren't familiar with the process (see literally any thread about a rebranding on GAF).

 

[joe2187]

 

[Kevtones]

Unpaid internships basically.

 

[Snowybreak]

Frustrating that it happens often as most people don't understand what goes into it or it's that weird double standard about art.

Case in point, friend wanted computer art piece and I gave him my low ball price to which I got:

"why would I pay you? Doesn't the computer do it all for you?"

I'm not an artist of any kind, but I think this just gave me a headache.

 

[Jedi2016]

I really hope they teach this stuff in art & design schools. The reason these things exist is because people keep falling for it. And how many artists get disenchanted with the industry after stuff like this? How many have left and never come back because they got fucked over by some greedy fuck like these?

 

[Palmer27]

I'm going to follow this page and get the message into my fucking head.

Spoiler

I'm a student so maybe I can use that as a lame excuse justify my lack of assertiveness on this issue?

 

[Sou Da]

Holy shit did Liam actually try to stiff that artist?

 

[Two Words]

This is complete bullshit. Work should be compensated. I've been working internship jobs as a software developer and I've been compensated well for my work. And to be honest, a lot of the time I am working with technologies I've never touched before during this internship. That obviously impacts how quickly I get stuff accomplished, but the companies recognize that and are looking for people that can learn and adapt to new technologies and have the will to do so. My internships have all been paying me between $23 - $27 an hour. I couldn't imagine them telling me they won't pay me and that I should be happy to do it for exposure.

 

[John Rabbit]

I work as a chef/cook.

People come up to me "Hey wow, you can cook...can you cater my party?"

"Alright what's your budget?"

"Budget? cant you just cook for me?"

"Well who's going to buy the food?"

"Dont you make the food?"

".........."

My wife has dealt with this as a pastry chef.

Person: "Hey friendo, can you make this <Pinterest image of some gaudy-ass cake> for my daughter's birthday?"
Wife: "Yes, absolutely. Will you be providing any of the decorations or would you like me to do it?"
Person: "Oh, I just thought you made/had all that."
Wife: "No, I have to buy those things, and those have costs associated. You're looking at at least $50 just in cost of materials."
Person: "<Local supermarket> will just do it for $15 though."



......

 

[capitalCORN]

OMG.

 

[Two Words]

OMG.

Replace "draw" with any other skill and see how it sounds. It's crazy how so many people think of artistic skills as this thing that you just do for funzies.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

I know a pornographer* with a pretty successful paid site who does this, you'd be surprised how many girls will do a shoot just for "exposure".
For every 10 people wise of the scam, there's always 1 willing to do it.


*Straight up biggest scumbag I know.

 

[MC Safety]

My new favorite.

 

[Imbarkus]

Back when I used to bother to reply to these type of requests...

 

[Syriel]

So something to consider here: There are absolutely windows where doing something for "exposure" is worthwhile. Evaluating those windows intelligently is what matters.

Case in point. I barely made any money doing 20 hours+ a week broadcasting Overwatch community tournaments for the better part of 7 months or so. However, I knew that I'd be building skills and a brand in a field where being in early mattered very much. As a result, it gave me a strong resume to do things like broadcast for TBS on ELEAGUE, or work events like Blizzcon (events that of course had very competitive pay).

If I took the hardline approach of wanting top tier caster rates from Day 1 (For small 120-500 dollar tournaments) not only would I not have gotten those rates, but I wouldn't have had incredible opportunities come to me later.

The main thing is to evaluate every situation and realize that if you do work for less, seeing if there is a bigger plan or more tangible goal that it will actually work into. It's not black and white as some people paint it in this thread.

There is a difference between this, and most of the requests that people are talking about in this thread.

It's all a manner of scope and scale.

In your case, you were working for amateur events and getting amateur pay. Nothing wrong with that. If TBS was asking you to work for free though, that would be an example of the topic at hand.

One of my personal examples (I've got more than a few) was with a contract for a VR company in the Valley. They were doing work on eye tracking and wanted a fully documented SDK assembled in 2-3 weeks.

We had discussed rates, scope of work, and expected start date when I was told one of the co-founders wanted to have a chat before committing.

Nice enough guy, but halfway thru the conv he switched into whining about costs, how they can't afford to pay for documentation work since they pay their coders so much, and why can't I just do this one project for stupid cheap (way below my normal rate) and then they could "give me more work in the future."

At that point I politely declined and wished them luck in finding someone with the experience to do what they wanted at the price they were offering. I never did find out if they got their SDK ready for the big event they had planned.

 

[Not]

He slid into their DWs

My new favorite.

Ho. Ly. Fuck.

 

[Westbahnhof]

This is amazing. "Don't be so selfish, do it for ME!"

My new favorite.

And this... I don't have words.
People are such entitled shits. I wish I knew what this position would be.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

"Hi, just FYI, if we have not done our job in this timeframe, we're not going to pay you to do yours."

 

[D4Danger]

My new favorite.

paying a deposit to volunteer

step aside unpaid internships there's a new king.

 

[zeemumu]

My new favorite.

"And at $50 an hour. When I started out, I had to pay Mr. Krabs $100 an hour."