Snubbers said:
Really? how do you explain that that actual grip/tyre FFB is very subdued in GT? I hear a lot of superlatives from yourself (Your assessment of Spec 2 physics was very gushing), but if you take a FWD car, light it up from the start line it's as numb as anything, and I can say from hotlapping that the lack of feel of the grip is a PITA.. There is almost no feel of what the front tyres are doing, you just turn the wheel a bit more, give it more throttle, and the FFB doesn't communicate anything, the first you know about understeer is the visually and audibly.. About the best thing FM gets right (though not perfect) is the way the steering unloads and the grip levels are reasonably communicated, it's always been the track FFB effects where Forza under-delivers..
There is definitely something about the way FM4 communicates grip that is appealing. You get more information than you get in GT5 for sure. But the information you get is not realistic, and there's the major problem.
I was on the real Ring the other day with one of those fun Race4Rent Swift Stage 2 (a little underpowered, but therefore also a bit safer
), and I slid sideways a bit in one of the early turns then regained grip. I had another such situation where I was going offline for a faster car, but it was one of those out and downward sloping left handers where it's really not such a good idea. I managed to stay on track just barely, only one rear-wheel briefly off the tarmac. In both cases, I automatically did everything right even though I maybe go to the track twice a year, thanks to GT's correct response to your driving input.
I've been very enthusiastic about Forza 4 this week (got it a bit after release), and when you go back from the one to the other at first you do feel that GT5 communicates less (as it does). FM4 communicates bounce of the rubber as the tire slides sideways, loss of grip, and regain of grip very well through force feedback and sound. That in itself makes the driving experience really enjoyable. But at the same time, it does this almost the same way for almost all types of cars, even when that shouldn't be like that at all. You can always regain grip by pressing the accellerator and just countersteering, without even losing speed. Every car is a rally car in that respect. And that makes the game boring in the long run, and unrealistic.
But all the information that GT5 communicates is correct. The first sound you hear are and should almost always be the tires. Forza has a nicer sound for this, but it doesn't come at the right time. Correcting the line by dropping your speed and straightening out your angle and/or gently braking is and should be the only option. Conversely, when you do lose grip in a FF wheel car in GT5 (using normal tires), there's often this loss-gain-loss-gain thing going on, that I've only ever felt in GT5 and in my first car (Alfa 155, the Swift I drove the other day has semi-slicks and not enough power to ever lose traction
).
Driving the same combo as I had in FM4, in GT5 losing control of your car completely can happen very easily in some cars, and when that happens, the game stays realistic up to but obviously not including the crash, if it gets that far (which having been in one, even if it was one at slow speeds, I'm almost thankful for
).
I think crucially, it takes some time with both games before this becomes apparent. As a game, therefore, Forza 4 has been well-designed. But, and this may sound a little overly hyperbolic but it is one of the things that stood out to me this weekend and I thought was symbolic for the whole game, the Zonda Type R is glossy and reflective all over in FM4.
