Support NeoGAF

[Nhranaghacon]

Will "Save Hollywood"

Particularly, Hollywood directors, producers, cinematographers and filmmakers - if they EVER embrace the technology to it's full potential - as it stands now.

Hollywood/The Film Industry is this dying beast, being devoured from within - by streaming film/episodic content that has been cheaply available now for years and only continues to rapidly improve.

With superior acting, stories and now artstyles and special effects.

Hollywood can not hope to compete or keep up with streaming media as it stands now, without making massive strides to fully change and transform the industry.

I personally hope Hollywood catches on to the VR Medium as a whole, as we are long overdue for massive blockbuster VR content releases that fully immerse the viewer and in fact allow
the viewer to interact with set pieces.

Imagine watching a film, and being wisped away into one of the countless game's taking place in the background, while the movie waits for you to proceed.

Imagine films becoming episodic, lasting more than 2 hours or until you have finished interacting with the film universe - because there is so much interactive content. A new type of film medium that suddenly allows the viewer to fully explore the film world, visit the art galleries, examine the characters within their own environment - all outside of the actual story of the film.

You can get on a plane and fly out to see the bad guys acting in their own habitat. Take a starship and examine the creatures making contact with the crew - visit all the households outside of the actual story taking place
and watch the families interact as the story (you aren't paying attention to) progresses.

Hollywood is missing a massive opportunity to reinvent the industry, film, and gaming - and that is a shame.

 

[INC]

Yeh yeh, we get it, you want it in porn, but you're dressing it up, to not look like a perv

 

[Nhranaghacon]

Yeh yeh, we get it, you want it in porn, but you're dressing it up, to not look like a perv

No that is a rather boring utilization of the technology considering it's already a large part of that industry. And painfully implemented without much forethought.

I want fully interactive film experiences - A movie I can choose to immerse myself in, or break away from over the span of a film. So if
the film takes place over 7 days, you have 7 days outside the realm of the film of which you can explore every facet of the film world.

What I'm insisting here is that standard fixed perspective footage, is archaic by todays film standards. Why rely on a locked viewpoint when you can in fact do a live action film
that allows you to walk around and examine with nuance if you wanted - every inch of the set or characters for that matter?

Such a huge missed opportunity, and I can only imagine the excuse is "We're waiting for AI to make this a more easily accessible challenge"

Meanwhile, they could of actually just made a massive blockbuster film specifically for VR and programmed the derivative gaming/interactive film world into the living interactive VR experience.

This would have already made billions if they only took a serious swing at utilizing the technology.

But we have yet to see any serious big name Hollywood Director sign on to create a VR Film specifically - that last over 2 hours or has interactivity as an equal side medium.

Imagine, Hollywood taking on Interactivity in live action film - suddenly you are able to walk around the characters, the environments ect - all without relying on 3d graphics for such metrics.
Suddenly you are no longer relegated to sitting in one place to watch live action sequences as the world around you has become fully interactive through use of superior filming techniques not yet
created.

One solution that wouldn't need to utilize AI is to in fact place the actor in a film dome - a dome made up of 100's of cameras - and have them each re-enact each scene on a per scene basis perfectly going back over the movements and motions/words made during the actual film - and then place those segments into a greenscreen set piece. You could either handle the entire film this way, or to better preserve the acting metrics - make the film and just place the recaptured interactive scenes into a greenscreen environment - either way would offer stunning results.

This could be done without resorting to AI, and the interloping methods to successfully film and achieve fully interactive live footage with this technique already exist. Unlike the relic you mentioned, which in all instances
is based on a fixed perspective.

I must believe some Director has already thought of this, so why is Hollywood fully ignoring the only Medium, in fact - a fully Next Gen Medium that offers the Best Visual Experience one could ever hope for - and is also the only medium that is able to in fact keep Hollywood relevant long term as it caters to Hollywood's strengths?

Something's is completely off kilter if you consider this fact. A superior Film Viewing Experience exists - VR - and outside of the virtual theater - Hollywood is Blatantly ignoring it by not building a huge budget Film title specifically for VR.

One only need utilize a large Freeze Time Camera Array to capture an actor from all angles.

They already have such an array, that like older Bullet Time formats before it.... - capture a multitude of different angles of live character footage... and can stitch it all together seamlessly.

The technology to capture a single actor from all angles needed for a user guided "walk around" experience - has in fact existed for more than half a decade.

CMU Panoptic Studio Data Set this is a smaller array which can already capture 1 actor from all angles required, and it is almost a decade old technology. There are dome arrays with well over 1000 cameras in place that would more than adequately capture multiple actors centered within a dome - and placed in a greenscreen interactive environment for more nuanced/meaningful interaction and inspection.

You can say "Wouldn't Work" but obviously, seeing as how the technology has existed and has only improved for nearly a decade - it would.

Why is this technology not being utilized by Hollywood for VR?

This would unequivocally be the magic solution for Hollywood Films, and I hope they eventually catch on to this fact in the future.

The Best VR Films to date, are fully game specific VR Films - which is a problem given I have already outlined a technique that would specifically mitigate any issue with bringing a fully interactive environment/character to VR.
Green Screen it from within a Camera Dome made of 100's of cameras catching every angle of a performance - place those individual performances into a Greenscreened VR Environment. Film Interactivity that allows you to walk around each character and set piece - solved. And it really is that simple. To state otherwise one must in fact fully ignore techniques that allow for a multitude of varying camera angles focusing on a a subject already exist at volume.

 

[Kev Kev]

op is right, fully interactive vr porn is the future

 

[INC]

No that is a rather boring utilization of the technology considering it's already a large part of that industry. And painfully implemented without much forethought.

I want fully interactive film experiences - A movie I can choose to immerse myself in, or break away from over the span of a film. So if
the film takes place over 7 days, you have 7 days outside the realm of the film of which you can explore every facet of the film world.

What I'm insisting here is that 360 footage, is archaic by todays film standards. Why rely on a locked viewpoint when you can in fact do a live action film
that allows you to walk around and examine with nuance if you wanted - every inch of the set or characters for that matter?

Such a huge missed opportunity, and I can only imagine the excuse is "We're waiting for AI to make this a more easily accessible challenge"

Meanwhile, they could of actually just made a massive blockbuster film specifically for VR and programmed the derivative gaming/interactive film world into the living interactive VR experience.

This would have already made billions if they only took a serious swing at utilizing the technology.

But we have yet to see any serious big name Hollywood Director sign on to create a VR Film specifically - that last over 2 hours or has interactivity as an equal side medium.

Imagine, Hollywood taking on Interactivity in live action film - suddenly you are able to walk around the characters, the environments ect - all without relying on 3d graphics for such metrics.
Suddenly you are no longer relegated to sitting in one place to watch live action sequences as the world around you has become fully interactive through use of superior filming techniques not yet
created.

One solution that wouldn't need to utilize AI is to in fact place the actor in a film dome - a dome made up of 100's of cameras - and have them each re-enact each scene on a per scene basis perfectly going back over the movements and motions/words made during the actual film - and then place those segments into a greenscreen set piece. You could either handle the entire film this way, or to better preserve the acting metrics - make the film and just place the recaptured interactive scenes into a greenscreen environment - either way would offer stunning results.

This could be done without resorting to AI, and the interloping methods to successfully film and achieve fully interactive live footage with this technique already exist. Unlike the relic you mentioned, which in all instances
is based on a fixed perspective.

I must believe some Director has already thought of this, so why is Hollywood fully ignoring the only Medium, in fact - a fully Next Gen Medium that offers the Best Visual Experience one could ever hope for - and is also the only medium that is able to in fact keep Hollywood relevant long term as it caters to Hollywood's strengths?

Something's is completely off kilter if you consider this fact. A superior Film Viewing Experience exists - VR - and outside of the virtual theater - Hollywood is Blatantly ignoring it by not building a huge budget Film title specifically for VR.

One only need utilize a large Freeze Time Camera Array to capture an actor from all angles.

They already have such an array, that like older Bullet Time formats before it.... - capture 10,000 different angles of live character footage... and can stitch it all together seamlessly.

The technology to capture a single actor from all angles needed for a user guided "walk around" experience - has in fact existed for more than half a decade.

CMU Panoptic Studio Data Set this is a smaller array which can already capture 1 actor from all angles required, and it is almost a decade old technology. There are dome arrays with well over 1000 cameras in place that would more than adequately capture 3 actors centered within a dome - and placed in a greenscreen interactive environment for more nuanced/meaningful interaction and inspection.

You can say "Wouldn't Work" but obviously, seeing as how the technology has existed and has only improved for nearly a decade - it would.

Why is this technology not being utilized by Hollywood for VR?

This would unequivocally be the magic solution for Hollywood Films, and I hope they eventually catch on to this fact in the future.

The Best VR Films to date, are fully game specific VR Films - which is a problem given I have already outlined a technique that would specifically mitigate any issue with bringing a fully interactive environment/character to VR.
Green Screen it from within a Camera Dome made of 100's of cameras catching every angle of a performance - place those individual performances into a Greenscreened VR Environment. Film Interactivity that allows you to walk around each character and set piece - solved. And it really is that simple. To state otherwise one must in fact fully ignore techniques that allow for 10,000 separate degrees of a subject already exist at volume.

If anyone wants the tl:dr version

The lady doth protest too much

 

[MachRc]

Porn will "Save Hollywood"

Particularly, porn directors, producers, cinematographers and filmmakers - if they EVER embrace the technology to it's full potential - as it stands now.

Porn Industry is this dying beast, being devoured from within - by streamers and free content that has been available now for years and only continues to rapidly improve.

I cant wait for new future un tethered headsets with attachments to watch porn with superior acting, stories, artstyles and sexy blast -processing special effects!
Them pornos are going to make MASSIVE strides to fully change and transform the porn industry!

porno stars are definitely going to hop on the VR Medium as a whole, as we are long overdue for MASSIVE cock-buster VR content releases that fully immerse the viewer and in fact swallow
the viewer to interact with those porn pieces

Imagine watching a porno, and being wisped away into one of the countless beds and couches in the background, while the porno waits for you to proceed.

Imagine pornos becoming episodic, lasting 3 hours or until you have finished(wink) interacting with the porn universe - because there is so much interactive content.
A new type of porn medium that suddenly allows the viewer to fully explore the porn world, visit the harlems, examine the pornstars within their own environment - all outside of the actual boinking in the film.

You can get on a chub and try out to see the porn star guy acting in their own habitat. Take a starship and examine the crouches of the crew - visit all the hoes outside of the actual porn taking place
and watch the porn stars interact as the story (you aren't paying attention to[I mean who does]) progresses.

I have the weirdest boner

 

[Krappadizzle]

op is right, fully interactive vr porn is the future

-------------------------------------

OP you are basically describing a VR game. It's not really a movie at the point when you can interact with things.

 

[Shai-Tan]

the current tech is not there yet. even worse if you did certain kinds of motion it would make a large percentage of people feel very motion sick

also this would have to be cgi movies because actual crews take up too much space. If you limit the scene to 180 degrees it’s only slightly better than flat 3d movies (I like 3d movies but hardly earth shattering). But then if you go over 180 it takes away the directors ability to frame requiring a rethinking of mise en scene

edit: wanted to add that vr experiences are cool and I wish there were more of them - particularly nature or imax documentaries. I was watching the 2002 IMAX movie about the international space station and even in flat 3d it was much more immersive than 2d

 

[Tranquil]

No interest in VR movies unless it's porn.

 

[poppabk]

op is right, fully interactive vr porn is the future

The OP is not talking about porn. He wants to be able to fully explore the film world - watch the lead actresses as she changes for bed, visit that college dorm in the background and watch the college girls taking showers, those two pretty business ladies who just escape death when the T-rex charges through midtown, well maybe if you follow them home they start a lesbian sex session due to the near death experience. There are endless possibilities beyond just porn.

 

[Nhranaghacon]

the current tech is not there yet. even worse if you did certain kinds of motion it would make a large percentage of people feel very motion sick

also this would have to be cgi movies because actual crews take up too much space. If you limit the scene to 180 degrees it’s only slightly better than flat 3d movies (I like 3d movies but hardly earth shattering). But then if you go over 180 it takes away the directors ability to frame requiring a rethinking of mise en scene

edit: wanted to add that vr experiences are cool and I wish there were more of them - particularly nature or imax documentaries. I was watching the 2002 IMAX movie about the international space station and even in flat 3d it was much more immersive than 2d

Which is why you could essentially film the movie from a fixed perspective - then allow users to interact with the film as they see fit - just as current VR games allow you the user to break away from pre-filmed moments - by again filming the live action characters separately - when you break away from the fixed perspective - insert the actor that has been re-filmed within a camera dome. You could do this with a crew, or completely without a crew.

It is as if you have completely ignored that a single person or multiple people can fit within a film dome - mitigating the need for a crew entirely. And there are already many films that have
been made that have filmed single actors in front of a green screen. Most of the Hobbit was filmed with single actors in front of a green screen - then placed into the film. This latest technique allows you to comfortably, from multiple angles film more than 1 actor at a time as long as they remain centered within the camera dome.

Such a technique would not render anyone sicker than current Fully Interactive VR game Paradigms that currently immerse the player... as breaking away from a fixed perspective is extremely common already in VR and the same techniques used in Immersive VR Gaming - would be asymmetrical to live action film - and in fact almost exactly the same during interactive pieces when utilizing live action set pieces. The director would maintain the ability to frame the film however they saw fit, as you would be breaking away from a fixed perspective. It would be obvious that for the optimal viewing experience - one would need to reseat - and I don't see how or why that would be a problem when directors could deliver fully interactive experiences that rival the experience of watching the film, within the film world.

And it would be very easy to achieve given a Blockbuster budget.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Which is why you could essentially film the movie from a fixed perspective - then allow users to interact with the film as they see fit - just as current VR games allow you the user to break away from pre-filmed moments - by again filming the live action characters separately - when you break away from the fixed perspective - insert the actor that has been re-filmed within a camera dome. You could do this with a crew, or completely without a crew.

It is as if you have completely ignored that a single person or multiple people can fit within a film dome - mitigating the need for a crew entirely. And there are already many films that have
been made that have filmed single actors in front of a green screen. Most of the Hobbit was filmed with single actors in front of a green screen - then placed into the film. This latest technique allows you to comfortably, from multiple angles film more than 1 actor at a time as long as they remain centered within the camera dome.

Such a technique would not render anyone sicker than current Fully Interactive VR game Paradigms that currently immerse the player... as breaking away from a fixed perspective is extremely common already in VR and the same techniques used in Immersive VR Gaming - would be asymmetrical to live action film - and in fact almost exactly the same during interactive pieces when utilizing live action set pieces. The director would maintain the ability to frame the film however they saw fit, as you would be breaking away from a fixed perspective. It would be obvious that for the optimal viewing experience - one would need to reseat - and I don't see how or why that would be a problem when directors could deliver fully interactive experiences that rival the experience of watching the film, within the film world.

And it would be very easy to achieve given a Blockbuster budget.

It would have to be all digital shit though. You can't just film 3d space for interaction. You essentially be creating a videogame but directing the cutscenes of a set narrative. Which is fine, but I doubt many directors have the time or patience that any interaction besides the narrative they craft and frame would be worthwhile to them. It'd be a ton of extra work. Which on fixed times/budgets doesn't really work in the "film" space.

 

[Shai-Tan]

Which is why you could essentially film the movie from a fixed perspective - then allow users to interact with the film as they see fit - just as current VR games allow you the user to break away from pre-filmed moments - by again filming the live action characters separately - when you break away from the fixed perspective - insert the actor that has been re-filmed within a camera dome. You could do this with a crew, or completely without a crew.

It is as if you have completely ignored that a single person or multiple people can fit within a film dome - mitigating the need for a crew entirely. And there are already many films that have
been made that have filmed single actors in front of a green screen. Most of the Hobbit was filmed with single actors in front of a green screen - then placed into the film. This latest technique allows you to comfortably, from multiple angles film more than 1 actor at a time as long as they remain centered within the camera dome.

Such a technique would not render anyone sicker than current Fully Interactive VR game Paradigms that currently immerse the player... as breaking away from a fixed perspective is extremely common already in VR and the same techniques used in Immersive VR Gaming - would be asymmetrical to live action film - and in fact almost exactly the same during interactive pieces when utilizing live action set pieces. The director would maintain the ability to frame the film however they saw fit, as you would be breaking away from a fixed perspective. It would be obvious that for the optimal viewing experience - one would need to reseat - and I don't see how or why that would be a problem when directors could deliver fully interactive experiences that rival the experience of watching the film, within the film world.

And it would be very easy to achieve given a Blockbuster budget.

the way films are made with green screen (and the newer way e.g. with mandalorian) there is a lot of necessary equipment right out of frame like lighting, mics, etc, props only partial facade etc and so on . All I was saying is that all of this was left out — and video is necessary unless you want cgi to look like garbage, because real time graphics is severely limiting.

what youre describing only seems possible to me in real time 3d aka a game, which is fine - I like some of the vr experiences that exist but this is an argument for making film with something like a game engine with all its limitations

 

[Nhranaghacon]

It would have to be all digital shit though. You can't just film 3d space for interaction. You essentially be creating a videogame but directing the cutscenes of a set narrative. Which is fine, but I doubt many directors have the time or patience that any interaction besides the narrative they craft and frame would be worthwhile to them. It'd be a ton of extra work. Which on fixed times/budgets doesn't really work in the "film" space.

It would only be a ton of extra work if you were filming an epic, like the hobbit or something similar - most big budget 1 billion dollar movie projects are just that. Super Massive Epics filmed in all digital/greenscreen film space.

Why we haven't seen a "Semi-Epic" film, that relegates half it's budget to film and the other half to a team focused on exploiting VR Interactivity is beyond me.

And I must Disagree, most Directors would in fact love to be at the forefront of such a medium if they knew their project was the one that would bring VR Film to the forefront of peoples minds.

It's really only a matter of time before this happens, Unfortunately we are made to wait while the entire Film industry suffers massive profit loss.

Typically, Film/Hollywood have been home to the most radical special effects innovations - but the more they ignore VR as a Medium for serious and meaningful Interactive Film Making the more they completely risk losing this coveted Mantle. I assume there is some director out there, somewhere toiling with a VR Film project. I just hope it's the one that fully exploits the technology, as you can already... just watch any film in VR - that in and of itself is not terribly special.

A decade from now this may change, but the tide shift isn't needed a decade from now - it is needed specifically now - as Hollywood begins to diminish in importance and as Services replace traditional cinema going.

Otherwise I'm left wondering how Hollywood EVER in fact - remained a force deemed "recession proof" through the 1920's and until now. There is now a new technology that offers vastly superior visual experiences and Hollywood is for the first time - completely dropping the ball. And it will forever remain a missed opportunity if they don't quickly do something to stabilize the... not film industry - but Hollywood Film Industry.

Seems to me, Hollywood is fast on it's way to becoming an outdated paradigm, much like blockbusters and paper transactions.

 

[bitbydeath]

Hardcore Henry is pretty much a VR film.

 

[ManaByte]

Yeh yeh, we get it, you want it in porn, but you're dressing it up, to not look like a perv

 

[Kev Kev]

The OP is not talking about porn. He wants to be able to fully explore the film world - watch the lead actresses as she changes for bed, visit that college dorm in the background and watch the college girls taking showers, those two pretty business ladies who just escape death when the T-rex charges through midtown, well maybe if you follow them home they start a lesbian sex session due to the near death experience. There are endless possibilities beyond just porn.

edit: lol nvm i didnt read the whole post. but yes i agree the possibilities are endless

 

[The Hamburglar]

Give me matrix level or holodeck level interactive porn and you’ll never hear from me again.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

It may be a neat idea (porn aside,) but it sucks as a storytelling medium. Even if it was done "on rails," it would suck because the writer/director/cinematographer/etc... use the tools of the medium to direct your attention in order to tell a specific story.

That's not to say such a medium doesn't have value, but it is its own artform.

 

[MachRc]

it must include a cliffy B's "Look at cool shit" button during the important scenes..

 

[Nhranaghacon]

VR does not suck as a storytelling medium - the fact that anyone would make this point underscores the fact that no film has been made to take advantage of VR.

A film fully geared towards exploiting the potential of VR would not suck - it would be an amazing fully interactive deep dive experience - particularly when paired with a meaningful well acted/special effects laden story that exploits the interactive capabilities of VR.

Anyone citing VR is terrible as a film medium clearly doesn't understand that after 5 years of full featured VR hardware - VR is still in it's infancy. The only serious strides in VR film have been small Indy budget attempts. Many people utilize VR now to replace their tv screen and monitor. For many now, it offers a sci fi level viewing experience unrivaled by traditional viewing mechanisms.

The notion that Hollywood is not utilizing this technology to fully exploit new derivatives of film is only going to get more ridiculous as time moves forward.

Just lil over a decade ago, people still adamantly believed VR was not viable as a technology and that any attempts to bring the technology to market would not be fruitful and cheapen the viewing experience.

Now we have this sci fi level, immersion technology - and those same actors are clutching to the same arguments posed against VR - to oppose Serious forays towards Interactive VR Film. Ridiculous.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

VR does not suck as a storytelling medium - the fact that anyone would make this point underscores the fact that no film has been made to take advantage of VR.

A film fully geared towards exploiting the potential of VR would not suck - it would be an amazing fully interactive deep dive experience - particularly when paired with a meaningful well acted/special effects laden story that exploits the interactive capabilities of VR.

Anyone citing VR is terrible as a film medium clearly doesn't understand that after 5 years of full featured VR hardware - VR is still in it's infancy. The only serious strides in VR film have been small Indy budget attempts. Many people utilize VR now to replace their tv screen and monitor. For many now, it offers a sci fi level viewing experience unrivaled by traditional viewing mechanisms.

The notion that Hollywood is not utilizing this technology to fully exploit new derivatives of film is only going to get more ridiculous as time moves forward.

Just lil over a decade ago, people still adamantly believed VR was not viable as a technology and that any attempts to bring the technology to market would not be fruitful and cheapen the viewing experience.

Now we have this sci fi level, immersion technology - and those same actors are clutching to the same arguments posed against VR - to oppose Serious forays towards Interactive VR Film. Ridiculous.

Yes, it sucks as a storytelling medium. Anyone citing VR as an amazing storytelling medium clearly doesn't understand storytelling.

Have you ever heard a bad storyteller tell a joke? They go off on weird tangents, forget key details of the joke, backtrack to add background context etc... It would be the same in a fully interactive VR medium. Instead of focusing on the protagonist as a key plot detail is revealed to see it's impact on them, the fully interactive VR viewer could very easily be faffing off about rummaging around in their sock drawer or whatever.

Sure, there could be stories that fit well within this type of medium - wasn't there some walking simulator game a few years ago that was essentially this - and it would certainly be cool as supplemental content, but for mainstream storytelling, it would be too easy for the viewer to miss the story completely.

 

[Xenon]

Out of all the VR videos I've seen, this one had the biggest impact on me. It's just a simple video that bounces back from room to room over a courtyard. But there are so many things going on simultaneously its impossible to see it all. The first viewing I was thinking, "um, ok." But I decided to watch it again and noticed all the other things happening and was like "Woooah" it was amazing to have an active control of what I was seeing.

I don't think VR will replace replace standard cinema anytime soon. But I do think there's an opportunity to explore a different type experience which allows you to control what you view. I would love to see a mystery done with this type of presentation.

 

[Nhranaghacon]

Yes, it sucks as a storytelling medium. Anyone citing VR as an amazing storytelling medium clearly doesn't understand storytelling.

Have you ever heard a bad storyteller tell a joke? They go off on weird tangents, forget key details of the joke, backtrack to add background context etc... It would be the same in a fully interactive VR medium. Instead of focusing on the protagonist as a key plot detail is revealed to see it's impact on them, the fully interactive VR viewer could very easily be faffing off about rummaging around in their sock drawer or whatever.

Sure, there could be stories that fit well within this type of medium - wasn't there some walking simulator game a few years ago that was essentially this - and it would certainly be cool as supplemental content, but for mainstream storytelling, it would be too easy for the viewer to miss the story completely.

There merely is no story that has taken advantage of VR technology, I expect most people will happily enjoy the story and in the same token - comb back over an interactive film for it's Easter Eggs and myriad of mini games. To look for clues - to in fact watch other parts of the story that might have been filmed for interactive splices of VR.

There will be traditional stories that take on incomprehensible meaning as long as the technology is taken seriously for film.

A Matrix film created from the ground up for VR - if done properly could feasibly bring on an entire new genre of Sci-Fi. Just as the original introduced many new items to film.