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GAF Book Club (Jan 2014) - "The Quiet American" by Graham Greene
- Thread starter Cyan
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Tragicomedy
Member
Finished this morning. Four stars and a great read. Am I correct in assuming the three main characters are symbolic of their respective nation-states?
Am I reading too much into this?
E.g. British are haughty and remain neutral because they've been the colonists before and know where it leads, Americans are brash and straightforward and take what they want with no regard for the consequences, and Vietnamese give off appearance of being meek and eager to please but remain allegiant to whoever offers them what is best for them.
Am I reading too much into this?
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Picked up a copy from my library today. I hope to get it started tonight.
Sped through part one, and it is already going into wild places!
I am aiming to complete part two tonight.
Pyle is a quiet American in more ways than one, he won't be making any more noises! :'-(
I found it astounding that Pyle just recklessly went to Fowler's location up north to simply tell him he plans to steal Fowler's woman, but he was too gentleman like to do it while Fowler was away, and he expects to remain best friend with him. Is Greene criticizing America as a whole with this action? Since I can so see this for American on a macro and micro scale. Would my assumption be wrong that Pyle is meant to symbolize America as a whole during this time period?
I found it astounding that Pyle just recklessly went to Fowler's location up north to simply tell him he plans to steal Fowler's woman, but he was too gentleman like to do it while Fowler was away, and he expects to remain best friend with him. Is Greene criticizing America as a whole with this action? Since I can so see this for American on a macro and micro scale. Would my assumption be wrong that Pyle is meant to symbolize America as a whole during this time period?
I am aiming to complete part two tonight.
Those were my exact thoughts after finishing the first chapter. But I thought the second one was already a lot better, though I'm not sure yet what to think of the first person narrator.
Guess I'm gonna finish the first part tonight.
Part 1 done and dusted. Seems like it's gonna be a classic three act play. Petered out towards the end of part one, with everything set up nicely.
We've heard the quiet American be described as such a few times already, but he doesn't seem to be all that quiet, nor the type to keep to himself.
We've heard the quiet American be described as such a few times already, but he doesn't seem to be all that quiet, nor the type to keep to himself.
Finished the book, and read the introduction to it today. This book has a lot of depth and detail carefully pieced together. It was a wonderful read, and reading through the intro revealed so much about Greene's work. I am too tired from work to write a mini-review on it, but I will say I am happy Cyan chose this book.
I cannot wait to participate in the soon-to-be discussion.
There's only one form of a quiet American. ;-)
I cannot wait to participate in the soon-to-be discussion.
There's only one form of a quiet American. ;-)
the quiet american is fowler's term, echoed by the french police chief. it's ironic of course but also revealing of how the old colonial powers underestimate american intentions in global affairs (
)
fowler is constantly suprised about pyle's increasingly bold actions throughout the book
CharminUltra
Member
I received my copy the other day and will start reading soon after I'm done with my current read (The Thirteen Problems by Agatha Christie). Can't wait!
The Outsider
Member
Scored a copy off eBay for 4 bucks. I will be joining the book club very soon!
Hey I'm reading that too. So no excuses!
Btw good reads has this as Marple 2. But irrc this is in fact Miss Marple's first appearance!
Satanic Saint
Member
Finished reading the book yesterday during a train journey. Will post my impressions after 3-4 days when my exams are over.
CharminUltra
Member
Yeah, this is her first appearance and IMO a much better intro to Miss Marple than The Murder at the Vicarage. This is also my 6th Miss Marple book, I just felt like reading a short story collection this time. In fact, I will probably read Dubliners right after The Quiet American for the 50 book challenge.
CavemanLawyer
Member
And I am off! Read the first chapter during my lunch break and will probably finish the book within the week.
Intriguing thus far and an easy read. I like.
Intriguing thus far and an easy read. I like.
Satanic Saint
Member
This was my first Graham Greene book and I really liked it.
This book is about Fowler's struggle to stay neutral and to not choose a side. This book is about how innocence is not a virtue when it comes to war. And this book is about how no foreigner will understand the character of Phuong.
The title of the book The Quiet American refers to Pyle (who is not very quiet) because he is dead.
I really liked how the characters are initially portrayed in the books as in Fowler is shown to be cheating on his wife, doing drugs etc. and Pyle is shown to be very sincere, innocent and honourable. But in the end Pyle is shown as a ignorant schoolboy believing blindly in a book and thus causing death and Fowler is shown as a man who finally has to choose a side.
I also loved this poem which is about America and war.
"I drive through the streets, and care not a damn;
The people they stare, and they ask who I am;
And if I should chance to run over a cad,
I can pay for the damage if ever so bad."
The title of the book The Quiet American refers to Pyle (who is not very quiet) because he is dead.
I really liked how the characters are initially portrayed in the books as in Fowler is shown to be cheating on his wife, doing drugs etc. and Pyle is shown to be very sincere, innocent and honourable. But in the end Pyle is shown as a ignorant schoolboy believing blindly in a book and thus causing death and Fowler is shown as a man who finally has to choose a side.
I also loved this poem which is about America and war.
"I drive through the streets, and care not a damn;
The people they stare, and they ask who I am;
And if I should chance to run over a cad,
I can pay for the damage if ever so bad."
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I finished this last night! I really liked it a lot. I thought it was very interesting that each character was basically a personification of their respective countries.
Next up I'm going to read The End of the Affair (also by Greene). Hope it's good!
Next up I'm going to read The End of the Affair (also by Greene). Hope it's good!
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
This is a bad book for audio with the story jumping around. Doesn't help the narrator's voice in the Audible recording sounds pretentious and had me confused for a long time whether he was saying Kyle or Pyle.
Story itself isn't drawing me in much. The setting is rather dull, but the focus on Vietnam prior to major US involvement is fresh. Fowler is insightful, but also comes off as an ass. I haven't figured out yet what to make of Pyle: Fowler makes him out to be simple but manipulative. His relationship with Pyles is also strange.
I'll expand my thoughts later (once I have a laptop to use again).
Story itself isn't drawing me in much. The setting is rather dull, but the focus on Vietnam prior to major US involvement is fresh. Fowler is insightful, but also comes off as an ass. I haven't figured out yet what to make of Pyle: Fowler makes him out to be simple but manipulative. His relationship with Pyles is also strange.
I'll expand my thoughts later (once I have a laptop to use again).
Howzit goin, cats n dogs?
Much smoother and quicker read than I was expecting, as several others have noted. Interesting that he chose to open with the death; I suppose it let's him explore his theme of innocence more easily throughout the whole book. I may have missed something about the end of Part I, but I am now slightly confused as to how he's still there months later. I suppose all will be revealed in time.
I'm really enjoying the characters so far. I don't feel I know Phuong yet, but Pyle's naive American openness plays off so beautifully against Fowler's jaded English cynicism.
Much smoother and quicker read than I was expecting, as several others have noted. Interesting that he chose to open with the death; I suppose it let's him explore his theme of innocence more easily throughout the whole book. I may have missed something about the end of Part I, but I am now slightly confused as to how he's still there months later. I suppose all will be revealed in time.
I'm really enjoying the characters so far. I don't feel I know Phuong yet, but Pyle's naive American openness plays off so beautifully against Fowler's jaded English cynicism.
I'm going to start from where I left off today. I'm just after part 1 cyan, and I tend to agree with you. A good difference between the two leads. But there's something off about Pyle I think. A contradictory character in some way - it's like the author either mixed up two characters or changed his mind about him half way. I can't put my finger on it & it may have something to do with all the detective stories I've been reading, but he's not quite what he appears to be.
I don't feel you ever do, and I think it's intentional. That might just be me, though.
It's by far his best prose, but the actual content of the story is fucking ridiculous.
Finished yesterday. I really enjoyed the interaction between Pyle and Fowler and the description of the surroundings. I think he did an awesome job bringing the land and the time to life. Only thing I didn't really care for was the plot. I don't really know how to describe this but it was as if while I enjoyed reading about this characteres I couldn't have cared less what they actually did. I don't know. Strange book.
Just finished.
I think these:
about sum it up.
Will try to post some more ordered thoughts tomorrow, but I have to say that it's impressive how much such an intimate story can say about whole nations at war. A smooth read, excellent use of motifs, solid prose. The only false note for me is the ending, which just feels too pat. It's the telegram that puts it over the top.
I think these:
about sum it up.
Will try to post some more ordered thoughts tomorrow, but I have to say that it's impressive how much such an intimate story can say about whole nations at war. A smooth read, excellent use of motifs, solid prose. The only false note for me is the ending, which just feels too pat. It's the telegram that puts it over the top.
Fowler is a complex protagonist; moreso than he initially seems. Complex enough that the things he does are unpredictable, though they always feel true to character. I mention this because while he's certainly used to represent the old colonial powers, he's still very much his own person. His struggle over getting involved in the end is fascinating, one of the few times I feel his emotions really come to the fore.
Pyle, of course, is not nearly so complex, though we see him through Fowler's eyes and so everything he does and says is tinged with Fowler's view of him as naive, an innocent. I'd be more inclined to doubt this view if not for the boat trip through hostile territory. And of course his meddling actions seeming to be inspired by nothing more thoughtful or deep than York Harding. One does feel sorry for him in the end--he's like a dog that doesn't understand why its nose is being smacked.
Phuong, as mentioned earlier in the thread, I never got a handle on. This is probably intentional, as she represents in some sense the Vietnamese themselves, never fully understood by the outside powers meddling with them. Fowler acknowledges this when he talks about how early on in their relationship, he would try to get her to really answer questions about what she thought or felt, until finally he had to give it up.
I enjoyed the prose a lot. Greene has a very smooth and readable style without sacrificing quality, and he has some great turns of phrase, alongside some recurring motifs. The relationships feel real, the story feels real... right up until the ending. When he receives the telegram that he's getting his divorce, it's just a step too far. He's got the girl, he got the order letting him stay, now he's got the divorce as well. At that point it just felt over the top towards a happy ending. I don't buy it.
Overall, a good read with plenty of character, somewhat marred by the finish.
Pyle, of course, is not nearly so complex, though we see him through Fowler's eyes and so everything he does and says is tinged with Fowler's view of him as naive, an innocent. I'd be more inclined to doubt this view if not for the boat trip through hostile territory. And of course his meddling actions seeming to be inspired by nothing more thoughtful or deep than York Harding. One does feel sorry for him in the end--he's like a dog that doesn't understand why its nose is being smacked.
Phuong, as mentioned earlier in the thread, I never got a handle on. This is probably intentional, as she represents in some sense the Vietnamese themselves, never fully understood by the outside powers meddling with them. Fowler acknowledges this when he talks about how early on in their relationship, he would try to get her to really answer questions about what she thought or felt, until finally he had to give it up.
I enjoyed the prose a lot. Greene has a very smooth and readable style without sacrificing quality, and he has some great turns of phrase, alongside some recurring motifs. The relationships feel real, the story feels real... right up until the ending. When he receives the telegram that he's getting his divorce, it's just a step too far. He's got the girl, he got the order letting him stay, now he's got the divorce as well. At that point it just felt over the top towards a happy ending. I don't buy it.
Overall, a good read with plenty of character, somewhat marred by the finish.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I agree with you about the ending - everything was tied up a little too neatly and I didn't buy that his wife would have ever given him a divorce. Plus, as you said, he already had Phuong back in his corner so it's not like he needed the divorce anymore anyway.
BTW what is the February book of the month going to be?
BTW what is the February book of the month going to be?
Nothing planned for February. I usually don't do two months in a row anymore. Considering a non-fiction work for March...
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Tragicomedy
Member
Mind if I nominate one for February? I don't want to step on any toes, but I have an idea or two.
Of course! There's a certain amount of work in getting together an OP and making sure to contribute to the conversation as you go, but if you're up for it you should definitely feel free.
Tragicomedy
Member
On it! I'm stealing your format for this one. Danke.
Maklershed
Member
Good book. Read that over the summer.
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