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GAF! Help me build my new PC......

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M

mattx5

Member
I'm sick and tired of my old, broken down, shitty, P3 450 mhz. I'm building myself a new PC.

I want to use it for gaming and video-editing. I need you guys to give me some suggestions on how I can improve what I'm showing you here, but without the price skyrocketing (I want it to stay under 1700$, all prices are in CDN $ FYI).

Here's the link-

http://ncix.com/pcbuilder/index.php?action=getprice&id=1496324


Now, I don't know much about the requirements for video editing, so what I need to know is-

Will one HD be enough or will I need two? How big will my seperate HD need to be?

What's the difference between the Radeon 9800 Pro and the Radeon All In Wonder 9800 Pro?

Will I need any extra cooling?

Are all my parts compatible? Anything I should switch around to optimize performance?




Thanks in advance GAF :)
 
O

Outlaw Pro Mod

Member
I have two hard drives myself - one with only the OS and the other with data.

Don't think you'd need extra cooling unless you started overclocking.

You'll definitely want a fast CPU and lots of RAM (512MB minimum) for video editing.

Not sure about the difference in video cards. If you go with the 9800 Pro, here's a link to the Hercules ATI Radeon 9800 128MB card 8X card for $199 + $1 shipping. http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2...p=F&siteID=pnkDUx_cu3o-30BqzkGktNsZkBdyFpRRWg
 
S

Slo

Member
I made this list the other day. Prices are in US$ from newegg.com. Do your own conversion calculations, Frenchie!

Antec Sonata case w/ 380W PS -$99.00
AMD 2800+ XP Barton -$113.00
Asus A7N8X motherboard, onboard lan/audio -$84.00
512 MB Corsair Value RAM PC3200 - $82.00
Saphire ATI 9800 Pro 128mb - $209.00
160 GB Samnsung HD -$92.00
LiteOn DVD +/- R 8X burner -$70.99

Total -$749.99

You'll also need a nice CPU fan, someone else can recommend that for you.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Why not? Unless you wait for PCI Express, a 9800 Pro is the best card money can buy (XT's are too expensive and not that much better, after that there really IS nothing better unless you want to spend $500 more.)
 
shoplifter

shoplifter

Member
I'd probably pay the extra for the A64 3200 instead of the 3000. Also get more RAM, video editing is brutal on it. 1GB is your minimum afaic.
 
M

mattx5

Member
Yeah, I thought it over, and figured that, since I won't be upgrading for like another 4 years, I shouldn't bother waiting for the PCI Express.

So now, a few more questions-

How big should my second HD be?

How can I tell how many sticks of RAM I'll be able to put in, if I want to add more in the future? If it says 5 PCI does that mean I have 5 slots? Or is it listed somewhere else?

Do I get the regular 9800 Pro or the All In Wonder? What's the difference?
 
D

Diablos

Member
mattx5 said:
So now, a few more questions-

How big should my second HD be?

How can I tell how many sticks of RAM I'll be able to put in, if I want to add more in the future? If it says 5 PCI does that mean I have 5 slots? Or is it listed somewhere else?

Do I get the regular 9800 Pro or the All In Wonder? What's the difference?
Click to expand...

You're doing video editing, so there's no telling how much space you will need... just for the heck of it (and because they are so cheap), you can't go wrong with your second hard drive being 120gb.

You want at least 1gb of PC3200 memory.

Get the 9800 All in Wonder; a regular 9800 Pro simply won't help you if you want to capture video from external sources. AIW's have a TV tuner, composite/s-video input and output, etc.
 
M

mattx5

Member
Ok, I double checked, the mobo only has 2 DDR DIMM 184-pin slots on board. Should I go for a mobo that has more slots? Because if I put two 512s, then I'm already maxed out?

Edit- Fuck, with all these changes the price is coming closer to 2000$ :(

Would I still be able to do some decent editing (i.e. short films shot with my Canon ZR80) with the onboard Geforce 3? Because I'd be willing to wait awhile for a price drop in the All In Wonder card....
 
S

Sander

Member
mattx5 said:
I'm sick and tired of my old, broken down, shitty, P3 450 mhz. I'm building myself a new PC.

[...]

Will one HD be enough or will I need two? How big will my seperate HD need to be?
Click to expand...
More space is always better of course ;) With 2 HDs you can run in RAID which will provide a substantial performance increase. So maybe you can look into 2x 80GB for a total of 160GB instead of a single 120GB.

Will I need any extra cooling?
Click to expand...
Nope. Even if you decide to overclock the CPU, the stock A64 cooler is actually quite good, unlike the previous Athlon XP stock coolers.

Are all my parts compatible? Anything I should switch around to optimize performance?
Click to expand...
Any reason you picked that mobo? The Nforce3 150 is not the best A64 chipset. Nforce3 250, K8T800pro and even SIS755 are all better.

Would I still be able to do some decent editing (i.e. short films shot with my Canon ZR80) with the onboard Geforce 3? Because I'd be willing to wait awhile for a price drop in the All In Wonder card....
Click to expand...
Video editing is mostly CPU + memory. Small article here: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1265147,00.asp
 
M

mattx5

Member
Thanks for the link, that cleared up a lot for me :)

So now I'm gonna have to shell out for a lot of RAM, a better mobo and two HDs, but I won't get the videocard right away because it's not essential to the video-editing process.

Anyone know if the 9800 All In Wonder, or even the entire range of 9800 cards are supposed to drop in price anytime soon?

Edit - If I'm not getting the videocard right off the bat, then I want the mobo to have an integrated video card, and that's what the Nforce mobos offer that the others don't.
 
M

mattx5

Member
Sander said:
But that mobo doesn't have integrated graphics? I don't think any Nforce3 150 mobo has.
Click to expand...

Ah fuck. Doesn't it come with an integrated Geforce 3 video card? Man, talk about misreading the information. I got fucking pwned. Why must I be so computer stupid?!

Now I'm really screwed :(
 
shoplifter

shoplifter

Member
You'll probably want to grab a board with 4 RAM slots. I -believe- that some nForce 250 boards have this. XP64-bit will allow you to use more than the old limit of 4GB, so you may as well get something you can use more with even if you don't do it now.

9800pro 128mb is $200 US right now. I have the AIW, but I'd recommend getting a separate capture unit if you're going to be doing serious work.
 
M

mattx5

Member
shoplifter said:
9800pro 128mb is $200 US right now. I have the AIW, but I'd recommend getting a separate capture unit if you're going to be doing serious work.
Click to expand...

I don't know too much about video-editing just yet, so could you explain this to me? What are the advantages to getting a seperate capture unit to the All In Wonder? How much would it cost?
 
D

DaCocoBrova

Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
Well, after getting banned from here, I picked up a new hobby. Video Editing.

You can capture digitally, or via analog connection. Digital is preferred, but either will work depending on the software you'll be using. My recommendation is Adobe Premiere Pro (which requires a digital capture device).

A great analog capture card is the LeadTek Winfast XP deluxe. It's a capture card (composite and s-video) in a addition to a TV tuner (hello PVR!) among other things.

If I were you though, I'd wait and get a HDTV card.
 
shoplifter

shoplifter

Member
Neither do I, but the unit on the AIW is a coax-only input iirc. It's pretty cool because you can use it like a Tivo (which I haven't done yet).

Something like this has many more features and would be much more likely to capture at higher resolution. It'd also give you more options as to what you can capture, I suppose.

I'm sure someone can enlighten both of us on the matter, but I suppose if you're not going to be too serious right now, the AIW would probably suit your needs.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
If video editing is important to you, go with P4. I love AMD and I have 2 Athlons myself, but for encoding video, P4s are better for the same price.

Also, playing back HD video, I can tell you that MS has definitely made WMV9 more suited for the P4. My 1.9Ghz Barton (2600+) will stutter like crazy playing 1280x720 WMV9 HD movies (we have 5th Element and Matrix: Relaoded to test) while my friend's 533Mhz FSB non HT P4 2.4Ghz will play it back absolutely smooth.
 
M

marsomega

Member
mattx5 said:
Ah fuck. Doesn't it come with an integrated Geforce 3 video card? Man, talk about misreading the information. I got fucking pwned. Why must I be so computer stupid?!

Now I'm really screwed :(
Click to expand...


You said you wanted gaming. There is no integrated graphics chip as powerful as a geforce 3. With a current integrated graphics solution you won't go far into gaming for the next four years.
 
shoplifter

shoplifter

Member
Shogmaster said:
If video editing is important to you, go with P4. I love AMD and I have 2 Athlons myself, but for encoding video, P4s are better for the same price.

Also, playing back HD video, I can tell you that MS has definitely made WMV9 more suited for the P4. My 1.9Ghz Barton (2600+) will stutter like crazy playing 1280x720 WMV9 HD movies (we have 5th Element and Matrix: Relaoded to test) while my friend's 533Mhz FSB non HT P4 2.4Ghz will play it back absolutely smooth.
Click to expand...

My guess is that this has been alleviated with the A64, especially in a 64-bit environment.
 
M

mattx5

Member
The thing is, I don't need my capture card to be able to do a bunch of crazy high def, Tivo style stuff, so I think the AIW would suit me fine.

As for the P4, not only do I prefer Athlon, but Intel processors are generally more expensive.

So, it looks like I'm going to have to dish out a bit more than expected for my new PC.


http://ncix.com/pcbuilder/index.php?action=getprice&id=1496324

I think that's the final, any other suggestions?
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
shoplifter said:
My guess is that this has been alleviated with the A64, especially in a 64-bit environment.
Click to expand...

More likely that A64 incorporates SSE2 now. The problem is, you'll be spending more for equal performance on WMV9 on A64 over P4 right now. Intel's been agressive with P4 pricing, and AMD less so lately.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
mattx5 said:
The thing is, I don't need my capture card to be able to do a bunch of crazy high def, Tivo style stuff, so I think the AIW would suit me fine.

As for the P4, not only do I prefer Athlon, but Intel processors are generally more expensive.
Click to expand...

You should really check out pricewatch right now.

And 3000+ A64? Get a real A64 if you're gonna go A64. 3200+ and beyond come with full 1MB cache.

So, it looks like I'm going to have to dish out a bit more than expected for my new PC.


http://ncix.com/pcbuilder/index.php?action=getprice&id=1496324

I think that's the final, any other suggestions?
Click to expand...

Dude that place is a fucking rip off! For instance, you don't need that RAM that badly. $450 for 1GB of PC3200? ARE YOU IN-SANE?!? Besides the fact that they are overcharging for that RAM, are you overclocking? No? Then screw that mess. You can get perfectly great dual channel stuff from hardcorecooling.com for tons less. $200 for 1GB PC3200 that's low latency.

That place sucks dude. look some place else.
 
M

mattx5

Member
Shogmaster said:
Dude that place is a fucking rip off!
That place sucks dude. look some place else.
Click to expand...


Just to make sure, you know the prices are in Canadian, right? If so, I'm still getting ripped off? Damn....
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
mattx5 said:
Just to make sure, you know the prices are in Canadian, right? If so, I'm still getting ripped off? Damn....
Click to expand...


OH!!!!! Those are canadian prices!!!!! NEVERMIND ME PLEASE. :D :D :D

note to self: scroll down all the way.
 
M

mattx5

Member
Sander said:
Looking good. One more question: why the expensive RAM?
Click to expand...

Well, I'm getting 1 gig of ram for sure, but is the company that I'm getting it from too expensive? Can you suggest a company that makes good ram sticks for cheap prices? I don't want one of my sticks to fail on me after 2 weeks of use :(
 
M

mattx5

Member
How about this? -

CORSAIR VALUE SELECT DUAL CHANNEL 1024MB KIT PC3200 DDR CAS2.5 2X512MB = $280.44

I want to save as much money on RAM as possible, but I also want it to be stable....

Edit- The memory slots on the mobo are as follows-

Memory
- Type: DDR400/ 333/ 266- 184pin
- Max capacity: Up to 3GB by 3 DIMM slots


Everythign should be compatible, right?
 
S

Sander

Member
mattx5 said:
Well, I'm getting 1 gig of ram for sure, but is the company that I'm getting it from too expensive? Can you suggest a company that makes good ram sticks for cheap prices? I don't want one of my sticks to fail on me after 2 weeks of use :(
Click to expand...
Well, I would just take the cheapest OEM they have, which seems to be the Samsung @ CAD115 for 512MB. But that's me, I always buy the cheapest RAM and have never had a problem. But if you want a brand for whatever reason, that Corsair Value 1024MB kit for CAD280 is nice. You really don't need HyperX, which is the most expensive type Kingston has. If your not into insane overclocking it's a waste of money.
 
S

Sander

Member
Just make sure the memory you buy is compatible with your motherboard. Tom's Hardware did a compatibility test recently, only your mobo isn't listed. A different Gigabyte with K8T800 is though: http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040602/memory_modules-12.html Both Corsair and Kingston failed while the Samsung worked :p But that has little to do with the quality of the RAM and doesn't mean your motherboard will act the same.

I'm not making this easier for you am I? ;)
 
D

DaCocoBrova

Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
Make sure that you get low latency RAM. Look at the RAM specs. You want CAS 2.

Wait a minute... Looking at what you've chosen... You're throwing a great deal of money away.

For one, a dual layered DVD burner will take care of the CDRW and DVD Rom stuff. Why use seperate devices when one DVD burner does all that and then some? Especially if you're going to be editing video.

Also, 64 bit chips are nice and all, but there's little to no code available that will even take advantage of that. Throwing away close to $1000 isn't smart no matter how deep your pockets are.

And your video card... You can get the same damn card for $200 sans AIW. Use the remaining $200+ for a real capture card. HD card even.

*sigh*

Oops. Canadian. But still... Re-think this.
 
K

Kwokuen

Unconfirmed Member
Sorry about the misleading title on the first one. It only burns dual layer discs at 2.4x. The drive burns -R/+R discs at 8x speed. I think the -RW/+RW speeds are rated at 4x.
 
K

Kwokuen

Unconfirmed Member
Also, that AIW 9800 pro is way too high. It looks to be about $334-ish in US dollars.

Sapphire 9800 Pro = $217

and that leadtek card that Dacoco mentioned earlier is a steal. I picked one up myself a while back. It even comes with its own remote :p.

Leadtek Winfast Capture Card = $40

I think its best to keep your capture card and video card seperate, since you'll be able to upgrade your video card in a year or two, and still keep your capture card. As with most newegg items, both of them have free shipping.

Total = $257
 
M

mattx5

Member
Another question -

If I just buy the 9800 Pro, and wait a few months to buy the capture card, in the meantime, I'll still be able to edit movies on my comp that I've shot with my digital camera, right? All I need is a firewire card, which comes with the mobo, correct?

The only thing I'd need the capture card for would be if I wanted to capture something off my TV??

:?

Edit- What would I need dual layer burning for?
 
G

golem

Member
mattx5 said:
Another question -

If I just buy the 9800 Pro, and wait a few months to buy the capture card, in the meantime, I'll still be able to edit movies on my comp that I've shot with my digital camera, right? All I need is a firewire card, which comes with the mobo, correct?

The only thing I'd need the capture card for would be if I wanted to capture something off my TV??

:?

Edit- What would I need dual layer burning for?
Click to expand...

1. yes, btw do you mean digital camera or camcorder? either way, a capture card is mostly used to get stuff off tv or vhs/other analog sources.

2. dual layer burning: double the storage of a normal dvd, but more than double the price right now for media. it will come down, most likely, and since the price difference is nominal, its a good way to make your burner compatible with teh latest tech.
 
M

mattx5

Member
Yeah, I meant my camcorder.

Alright, so I definitely have no problem waiting awhile for the capture card, as I have no immediate use for it, so that'll save me a few bucks :)

One final question, and I feel very stupid for asking it-

Will a DVD burner burn CDs as well? And if I just buy the DVD burner, do I need to buy a seperate DVD drive as well or is that included? I've never had any burner before, so I have no clue how it all works....
 
D

Diablos

Member
Looking very nice.

Personally, I would get a cheaper case and get a hard drive with an 8 meg cache... but that's just me.

You have a really good box, it's certainly better than mine in almost every aspect.
 
T

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Intel rapes AMD in the video editing department. Seriously.

Get a P4 3.2 E. E standing for Prescott 800 FSB with Hyperthreading. The Prescott core is faster than the tradition Northwood Core for video editing. It absolutely smokes the AMD 3200+ in video editing.

Hell, it gives the AMD FX-53, AMD's $850 (US $) flagship processor a run for it's money.

A 3.2 E is $280 in the States. A 3200+ 64 is also about $280. If your market is the same, the choice is obvious. Get intel.

Don't believe me?

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040601/socket_939-20.html

And don't give me the "tom's hardware is biased, and raped my children" argument.
 
D

Diablos

Member
The Prescott core has some serious heating issues... and the Athlon 64 FX based processors at 2.2GHz smoke 3.2GHz P4's...
 
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