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[Palette Swap]

You're absolutely right, it doesn't give anyone the right to act like an animal because of it. However, it's still a reality that when you make a post like that, it's not that surprising that you will get people acting like that because they found it offensive or incendiary.

That kind of crap - like Leigh's article for example? That wouldn't have made it past the editor in any respectable publication. And I mean, in actual print. I wonder how this whole thing would have played out had she not decided to get up on her pedestal and choose it was her time to enlighten us all.

Still, it's pretty singular that what, half a dozen inflammatory editorials would lead to a 2 week-long relentless shitstorm like that.

As someone who didn't care much for the tone of said columns, I can't imagine staying mad for this long. If you disagree with a particular publication's tone, stop reading it and move on. I've done that with tons of papers and magazines. Making demands on that specific front is absolutely useless in my view as they have no obligation to not call everyone a stinking asshole if they wish too. That's editorializing and is very distinct IMO from any ethics discussion, that is absolutely legitimate as long as it doesn't revolves around who a specific dev sleeps with.

And having a few inflammatory articles certainly doesn't excuse the very real harrasment campaigns that have been happening with very real casualties. Who happen to be women. Again, I'm all for the broad ethics discussion that's been brewing for years now but anyone still participating in the GG movement are giving cover to assholes actively harassing people the way the movement was designed to. I can't fathom how the ethics discussion that's been waiting for so long would take precedence over stopping the harrasment.

As I said before, gamergate is not about harassing women and minorities, it's a reaction to the allegations of nepotism that came out in the initial Zoepost,

The initial nepotism allegations about Zoe x Kotaku had no real basis and were all about slut shaming. So honestly, I'd question the good faith of anyone who still views this particular point as relevant.

Talking about how she fucked a guy who mentionned her game among dozens in an article isn't a conversation about nepotism. It's all about discussing who she fucked.

 

[Oppo]

You're not and you aren't required to do anything about. But if you're signalboosting and associating yourself with a movement targetting women and rooted in a dubious and problematic origin, then you need to get off that train.

I'm with you there.

The point of the hashtag is to clarify a topic and that hashtag does anything but, at this point

 

[Nikodemos]

No, they actually aren't irrelevant. It was made explicitly and cynically to give cover to people doing terrible things. People using it with any sincerity are being used by the people who came up with it.

Same ultraconservative willful mislabelling in the vein of 'Citizens' United.

 

[Señor Coyote]

The dissatisfaction with the press is often enough expressed in such tweets:



The "movement" has a problem

And again, thousands disagree. If they moved to a different tag it wouldn't change a thing it would still be used by trolls. The point is it doesn't delegitimize the relevancy of their grievances simply because you do not agree with those also using the tag.

 

[Oersted]

When gamers shut down the assholes? What mechanism is there exactly, for doing that? Unless game lobbies have added 'vote to kick the abusive person out' since I stopped doing much multiplayer gaming with pubbies.

As I said before, gamergate is not about harassing women and minorities, it's a reaction to the allegations of nepotism that came out in the initial Zoepost, and then the gaming media (and others') subsequent demonization of anyone who criticized Zoe or her friends as a misogynistic nerd. Also, further questionable connections between indie devs, indie gaming organizations such as IGF and gaming media, and a host of other things such as the harassment of TFYC, the silencing of the person Zoe abused (Wolf Wozniak), etc.

If you're seriously equating random assholage to a systematic terror campaign, your shoulder must hurt. You may be locked into your viewpoint and can't begin to see the other side. I don't know what else to say.

The whole reason why this "movement" started, have been the wrong accusations against Zoe Quinn. That the press is influenced by being literally in bed with her, a indie developer. It started with harassment and is still about harassment.

 

[poorlonelycomputer]

I am getting a little tired of being obliquely accused of "not standing up for women".

What am I supposed to do about anonymous assholes that no one else can do? I obviously don't tolerate this sort of behaviour in real life but this is the net. I am not complicit with these "concerned" anti-SJW idiots. I don't like the implication.

Not picking on you personally but I hear this a lot and I think if you feel attacked the first thing you should do is take a step back and examine the situation, because a lot of these things really aren't meant to attack you. I haven't been reading the twitter hashtags (for a reason) but the Leigh Alexander essay for example, while polemical, wasn't an "attack." I see the same things whenever Sarkeesian puts out a new video, everyone saying they're tired of being called misogynists. Well...she's specifically not calling anyone a misogynist. I understand it can be hard to hear certain things when you're not used to having your worldview questioned, but you also have to understand how frustrating it is for people when conversation gets arrested every time a straight white dude (and I say this as one!) sees the status quo being questioned and feels personally attacked.

 

[poorlonelycomputer]

And again, thousands disagree. If they moved to a different tag it wouldn't change a thing it would still be used by trolls. The point is it doesn't delegitimize the relevancy of their grievances simply because you do not agree with those also using the tag.

Their grievances are illegitimate for other reasons though. There is no place for hard news reporting in an enthusiast press, and having subjective opinions is the ENTIRE POINT of criticism.

 

[Visceir]

Just enter the hashtag in Twitter. It is constantly used for harassment and attacks on women and feminists.

That is simply not true.

Whenever I've checked the #gamergate tag on twitter I've seen nothing like that. It's either people accusing it of being misogynistic while using the tag or people bringing up legit issues and their concerns.

 

[Oersted]

And again, thousands disagree. If they moved to a different tag it wouldn't change a thing it would still be used by trolls. The point is it doesn't delegitimize the relevancy of their grievances simply because you do not agree with those also using the tag.

Going trough Twitter, it is mostly expressed in dissatisfaction with Social Justice and attacks on women:

#GamerGate #mensrights anyone else hope all the women in the world die?

I really want to see your thousands of legitimate critics, but where are they?

 

[Firestorm]

Most of what I see on that hashtag search are articles about this debacle and it all tells the same story because of where the hashtag originates. I'm not sure why people want their issues with the games press associated with that.

 

[RockTurtle]

Their grievances are illegitimate for other reasons though. There is no place for hard news reporting in an enthusiast press, and having subjective opinions is the ENTIRE POINT of criticism.

people want to vent and this just happened to be the venue for it.

those complaining about the abuse or harrasment put in the hashtag are also trying to paint it as a defacto war on women/acceptance, and it's trying to dismiss those of us who posted grievances that we felt had to be said. or the fact that the other side has been trying to derail and writing pretty horrible stuff since the beginning as well.

i see jscheir and others keep trying to push the narrative that it's only this one thing. and i understand. it's easy to rail against something if you attribute it to a single horrible cause.

if the hashtag was lost due to vitriol, it was a team effort, not just one mired by "misogyny". And liked i mentioned in the other thread, i think #notyourshield at this point holds more weight.

an apparent case of missing the forest for the trees, if i'm using the term correctly.

 

[Señor Coyote]

Going trough Twitter, it is mostly expressed in dissatisfaction with Social Justice and attacks on women:



I really want to see your thousands of legitimate critics, but where are they?

Are you serious? Are you living in the same reality as the rest of us? I implore anyone who has their concerns about #GamerGate to actually look at the posts on twitter, the attacks on women are the exception not the rule.

 

[Sneds]

Are you serious? Are you living in the same reality as the rest of us? I implore anyone who has their concerns about #GamerGate to actually look at the posts on twitter, the attacks on women are the exception not the rule.

There don't seem to be that many attacks in women. It's mostly vague points about combatting corruption.

 

[Kurdel]

That kind of crap - like Leigh's article for example? That wouldn't have made it past the editor in any respectable publication. And I mean, in actual print. I wonder how this whole thing would have played out had she not decided to get up on her pedestal and choose it was her time to enlighten us all.

The point of an editorial is that the writer has freedom to write refardless of what an editor would say.

So even under old journalism standards, there is place for incendiary opinion pieces like this.

 

[Nephtis]

Still, it's pretty singular that what, half a dozen inflammatory editorials would lead to a 2 week-long relentless shitstorm like that.

Half a dozen editorials which all had a single focus point. A point that decided backed up what Leigh said. She single-handedly decided to make it a war -- she basically said "come at me, bro". And they did. Once she said what she did she left the fighting up to everyone else, while still promoting her book and what not. So clearly, this thing wasn't important to her, especially when other publications came about that supported her, and could instead take on the entire brunt of it.

As someone who didn't care much for the tone of said columns, I can't imagine staying mad for this long. If you disagree with a particular publication's tone, stop reading it and move on. I've done that with tons of papers and magazines. Making demands on that specific front is absolutely useless in my view as they have no obligation to not call everyone a stinking asshole if they wish too. That's editorializing and is very distinct IMO from any ethics discussion, that is absolutely legitimate as long as it doesn't revolves around who a specific dev sleeps with.

And having a few inflammatory articles certainly doesn't excuse the very real harrasment campaigns that have been happening with very real casualties. Who happen to be women. Again, I'm all for the broad ethics discussion that's been brewing for years now but anyone still participating in the GG movement are giving cover to assholes actively harassing people the way the movement was designed to. I can't fathom how the ethics discussion that's been waiting for so long would take precedence over stopping the harrasment.

I got nothing here, I completely agree with you

 

[Oersted]

Are you serious? Are you living in the same reality as the rest of us? I implore anyone who has their concerns about #GamerGate to actually look at the posts on twitter, the attacks on women are the exception not the rule.

Lets say you are right. Why do you think does the hashtag attrack sexism/ mysogony and harassment?

 

[MrHoot]

The point of an editorial is that the writer has freedom to write refardless of what an editor would say.

So even under old journalism standards, there is place for incendiary opinion pieces like this.

hmm, yes and no.

An editorial can be an opinion piece but there's still some actual journalism that has to be done (research, presenting the opposite point (although you don't have to agree or defend it in any way, for sure), identification of the problem, avoidance of advertising)

Sure, he has the absolute right to write something like that, doesn't mean it's a good editorial though

 

[Kadayi]

This isn't what he is implying.

Please, the guy is appealing to the concept of gallantry based solely on someone's sex. I believe in personal democracy.

If i said "you should try to be nice to everyone." I am almost certainly not saying you should be nice to serial killers and animal abusers. Because that sort of awfulness is not generally considered to be a representation of society of a whole

Would you have us get a rope for them?

 

[mattp]

its hard to even take people seriously when they say they're doing this in the name of journalistic ethics when people love sites like giantbomb and have never had issues with them having on guys like john drake or dave lang. because they're guys? because they're funny?
is that what makes it ok?

not that i even have a problem with this stuff. you guys are crazy if what you really want is every site to just be run by robots with no personal relationships with anyone
dont you guys all fucking complain about not agreeing with the reviews of major sites anyway? i'd much rather the press be there for entertainment, not impartial game reviews

i'm rambling

 

[moondoggerr]

We've reached a point where every little thing is a bone of contention. The vast majority of gamergate people, who are decent and kind and good, feel that if they end their association with the hashtag that it all will have been for nothing and that their struggle for better ethics in the gaming press will be over. To me, this is a prime example of a sunk costs fallacy.

On the other side (full disclosure: this is my "side"): the vast majority of people who are supporters of Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkesian and Phil Fish and who are also decent and kind and good, feel that because so much wickedness was done by a minority who used that hashtag initially, they could never ever be okay with using it, or even being on board with it. Because it was used by a twisted minority as a bludgeon to ruin people's lives. It's like how nobody wants to use a certain Hindu religious symbol any more, because some bad people got ahold of it and did awful things.

Nobody is going to move on this. I think this thread is evidence of that. What I think is going to happen is that #gamergate will slowly degrade in popularity because it can never recruit support from people like me. To my mind, that's probably a good thing. And then, after a while, good solid decent people from all sides will come together in a new initiative to examine games press ethics.

In the meantime, Desiny will come out.

 

[Stet]

You're absolutely right, it doesn't give anyone the right to act like an animal because of it. However, it's still a reality that when you make a post like that, it's not that surprising that you will get people acting like that because they found it offensive or incendiary.

That kind of crap - like Leigh's article for example? That wouldn't have made it past the editor in any respectable publication. And I mean, in actual print. I wonder how this whole thing would have played out had she not decided to get up on her pedestal and choose it was her time to enlighten us all.

Are you kidding? Respectable publications publish opinion pieces like that all the time.

 

[Gattsu25]

the people who continue, including myself, mostly do not want to target women. we just disagree with your assessment that its the only thing this movement can possibly mean.

It's the foundation of the movement.

I agree that corruption in games coverage is going overboard. You have games publishers effectively paying the people that are covering them: they are buying their flights, paying for their hotel rooms, giving them admission to parties, personally appearing in their gag video video content (lending legitimacy to their coverage versus their competitors), and even giving them free consoles. And that's including youtubers. I've seen someone, after benefiting from most of what I just mentioned in a short period of time, on the verge of tears with joy. Some games journalism sites have ethics policies that disallow that kind of intermingling.

Some, but not all.

We really do need to have a conversation about corruption and ethics in games coverage, but that conversation needs to include the toxic elements that affect all avenues of games coverage.

 

[LuchaShaq]

its hard to even take people seriously when they say they're doing this in the name of journalistic ethics when people love sites like giantbomb and have never had issues with them having on guys like john drake or dave lang. because they're guys? because they're funny?
is that what makes it ok?

The giantbomb stuff is fine because they are always upfront with that shit.

They have said time and time again they and their audience find the personalities and access to double fine, iron galaxy, supergiant, Harmonix infinitely more interesting than staying at arms length and writing reviews for their games.



You don't see giantbomb saying donate to the Harmonix kick starter and then find out a month later they are all buddies.

You don't see GB defending Phil Fish and Patrick hiding the fact that they are buddies until someone finds out later.


All their shit is out in the open the way it should be period.

 

[Eighthours]

I usually just lurk here, but thought you guys might enjoy a silly song I wrote about Gamergate and set to a cover of LCD Soundsystem.

Gamers, I Love You But You're Bringing Me Down: https://soundcloud.com/eighthours/gamers-i-love-you-but-youre.

 

[Riposte]

"Degraded violence porn for young men" lol

 

[LuchaShaq]

I haven't been reading the twitter hashtags (for a reason) but the Leigh Alexander essay for example, while polemical, wasn't an "attack." .

I have to call you out on this one.

Alexander has a multi year track record of writing almost exclusively clickbait or poorly written slop. Even when she's on the right side of an issue she intentionally frames it in the most haphazard half assed ways to get attention. She really is possibly the worst writer I've ever read, and that includes freshmen psych students and their shitty papers I have to grade.

 

[Tetsuo9]

I usually just lurk here, but thought you guys might enjoy a silly song I wrote about Gamergate and set to a cover of LCD Soundsystem.

Gamers, I Love You But You're Bringing Me Down: https://soundcloud.com/eighthours/gamers-i-love-you-but-youre.

I liked that!

 

[pslong009]

I just get the feeling that all the people complaining about "journalist ethics" and "corruption in the industry due to marketing" are going to turn out like this:

And if the #GamerGate supporters are wondering why they're being painted as misogynistic, keep in mind that so far, multiple female critics have decided to walk away, another has felt the need to flee her house, while EA / Activision / Ubisoft etc, the publishers that are actually doing the crap that they're allegedly railing against, are going to go through this in the clear and not be affected one iota.

I completely agree that the publisher / journalist connection in this industry is a little too buddy-buddy. But why is all the attacking at the journalist side and not at the publisher side? Are the supporters of this movement going to start boycotting games from publishers that engage in these practices?

 

[Chinner]

i wish i could flush the videogame industry down the toilet.

 

[Eighthours]

I liked that!

Cheers! Amazing what you can do these days with an iPad and a couple of guitars!

 

[Sneds]

I just get the feeling that all the people complaining about "journalist ethics" and "corruption in the industry due to marketing" are going to turn out like this:

And if the #GamerGate supporters are wondering why they're being painted as misogynistic, keep in mind that so far, multiple female critics have decided to walk away, another has felt the need to flee her house, while EA / Activision / Ubisoft etc, the publishers that are actually doing the crap that they're allegedly railing against, are going to go through this in the clear and not be affected one iota.

I completely agree that the publisher / journalist connection in this industry is a little too buddy-buddy. But why is all the attacking at the journalist side and not at the publisher side? Are the supporters of this movement going to start boycotting games from publishers that engage in these practices?

You know the answer to that.

 

[Lime]

Chris Remo is funny

 

[Sceptic]

Just my thoughts.

Zoe Quinn thing kicked it off. I only found one thing that she did that was bad. I don't care who she slept with. Out of the five guys, only one of them was a journalist, he had never written a review and barely spoke about the game. However other facts came up, including self doxxing and false threats in order for publicity as well as shitting on a game jam just cause it's similar to yours. This actions I found pretty shitty.

The initial reaction against Zoe Quinn I found abhorrent. Instead of focusing on the doxing and false threats, the mob spoke out against her for sleeping with guys and by trying to find some grand conspiracy. Get this, the press talk with game makers. They have things in common, such as liking games. People I think mistakenly presumed relationship between the two is completely wrong, which is to the way the world works. I think Giant Bomb does it best, showing that a close relationship with game makers can be better content for viewers. It should all come down to trusting a person's opinion about video games, that's it.

The reaction by that by the gaming press however showed some huge flaws. The press responded to the reaction with censorship and silence. It was a reaction that I can see the good intentions behind. It was right of them to not want to comment on a person's sex life, as that is private. The only one who needed to make a comment regarding that issue was Kotaku and Totilo and he made it, responding to the facts. However by not addressing any of the other allegations regarding self-doxxing and game jams, the media I think falsely made her out to be all in the right and for any legitimate question of her ethics, to be lumped into the same anti-feminist attack on her sex life hence conflating the two issues. This is where the lines were first drawn.

I have more thought's on how the debate has become increasingly toxic as it continued but I wanted to first post this and see if anyone agrees or if I'm way off base.

 

[jabuseika]

I keep seeing the same things being said by same people over and over. Very few people have taken a step back, and have tried to make sense of what the other side is saying, like boogie, but those like him are just being ignored. Instead everyone just falls back to painting the other side for their own bias, and throw arguments out for slight philosophical disagreements.

Some people have good intentions in defending Zoe, and Anita, hopefully people are more aware of the problems faced by females in the video game industry.

Some people have good intentions in calling out for journalistic integrity, and I hope they keep calling out anyone that breaks it.

I still think generalizing all gamers is wrong. You're going to keep antagonizing the people you're trying to reach, if you keep generalizing statements to all gamers.

 

[poorlonelycomputer]

I have to call you out on this one.

Alexander has a multi year track record of writing almost exclusively clickbait or poorly written slop. Even when she's on the right side of an issue she intentionally frames it in the most haphazard half assed ways to get attention. She really is possibly the worst writer I've ever read, and that includes freshmen psych students and their shitty papers I have to grade.

Hmm. I don't get the hate for her frankly. I thought her article was good and it expressed a lot of the frustration that I personally have with the gaming community. She does have a certain amount of arrogance but sometimes I'd rather read that than a wheedling "well everyone's opinion is valid but I personally think..."

 

[Lime]

I still think generalizing all gamers is wrong. You're going to keep antagonizing the people you're trying to reach, if you keep generalizing statements to all gamers.

No one is doing that.

The people who are knowingly supporting and contributing to a cause that harms women and freelance journalists who can hardly even pay their their rent is being criticized and called out, if that's what you are referring to.

 

[Orayn]

I keep seeing the same things being said by same people over and over. Very few people have taken a step back, and have tried to make sense of what the other side is saying, like boogie, but those like him are just being ignored. Instead everyone just falls back to painting the other side for their own bias, and throw arguments out for slight philosophical disagreements.

People aren't ignoring Boogie, they're saying that he's making a mistake and sabotaging his own good intentions by supporting this particular hashtag that has so much negative baggage associated with it.

EDIT: And yeah, we also have the problem of people not accepting that GamerGate isn't purely a feel-good movement of people who want nice things. The fact that it's perceived as such is an indication that /v/'s PR strategies are working, unfortunately.

 

[jschreier]

I keep seeing the same things being said by same people over and over. Very few people have taken a step back, and have tried to make sense of what the other side is saying, like boogie, but those like him are just being ignored. Instead everyone just falls back to painting the other side for their own bias, and throw arguments out for slight philosophical disagreements.

Some people have good intentions in defending Zoe, and Anita, hopefully people are more aware of the problems faced by females in the video game industry.

Some people have good intentions in calling out for journalistic integrity, and I hope they keep calling out anyone that breaks it.

I still think generalizing all gamers is wrong. You're going to keep antagonizing the people you're trying to reach, if you keep generalizing statements to all gamers.

You should read this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=128808566&postcount=2109

 

[Messofanego]

its hard to even take people seriously when they say they're doing this in the name of journalistic ethics when people love sites like giantbomb and have never had issues with them having on guys like john drake or dave lang. because they're guys? because they're funny?
is that what makes it ok?

They've brought on Jenn Frank, Cara Ellison, Leigh Alexander (not since that E3 podcast though), Samantha Kalman twice, Danielle Riendeau, Zoe Quinn, Alexa Ray Corriea, as prominent women writers or developers.

Maybe not on their video events as much, but that could just be a schedule or logistic thing as they show up on podcasts. I don't remember which women showed up on the E3 video podcasts, someone else can refresh me. I wish more women show up on the video content, as some of them are quite a lot of fun.

 

[Lime]

For people who still feel inclined to associate yourself with Gamergate (trigger warnings abound), these are the people who historically affiliated with it:

It's about ethics and integrity! (taken from chatlog)

We gamers are concerned about games journalism and corruption!

"Child porn is okay if you use it to harass a woman"

 

[Moon_frogger]

I have to call you out on this one.

Alexander has a multi year track record of writing almost exclusively clickbait or poorly written slop. Even when she's on the right side of an issue she intentionally frames it in the most haphazard half assed ways to get attention. She really is possibly the worst writer I've ever read, and that includes freshmen psych students and their shitty papers I have to grade.

agreed. Honestly, the 'gamers are over' piece is one of the best things she's written which is sad and funny at the same time. she romanticizes the indie game scene to be this bastion of creativity, justice and freedom which it totally is not. 99 percent of these indie developers would kill to have their game all over metacritic and major game publications and rightfully so. People need to eat. her argument that it's only this supposed 'new breed' of game creators and writers striving for something more ignores 30 years of amazing creativity and expressionism that she honestly has no clue about and probably doesn't even care to examine or understand. It's lazy and dishonest. I can't fault her idealism, she's clearly young and passionate about games but her idea of what should be a 'game' is probably just as narrow and uneducated as the unwashed masses lusting after the next call of duty or assassins creed title. The current indie craze is subject to the same crass consumerism and mind numbing lack of creativity as anything in the AAA space. It's just silly to think otherwise.

 

[pslong009]

You know the answer to that.

Of course I do. That's why I find it so sad. So far, the only result of this movement is that talented people have left. Nothing else is going to change.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I still think generalizing all gamers is wrong. You're going to keep antagonizing the people you're trying to reach, if you keep generalizing statements to all gamers.

I think my problem with this bit of rhetoric is that it seems like a hyperbolic reaction to a subjective interpretation of a small scattering of op-ed pieces. Personally, I can understand why Alexander's piece rubbed some the wrong way. However, even approaching it from a very uncharitable reading of her intentions, I still don't think it's fair to suggest that it "generalized ALL gamers." At worst, it suggests that certain activities -- when gone unchecked -- reflect poorly on the community at large. But I don't read that and think "she's calling me a bad person."

I don't feel any more or less inclined to say that I like playing video games now than I did a month ago. I'm not at all fearful that if -- during a family trip to the mall today -- I wander into a GameStop people will start to mock point and mock me as one of them misogynist nerds. This isn't our moment where we need to stand up and defend ourselves as good people.

And even if it was (and again, it's absolutely not), it's important to consider precisely the message you are sending. If the whole thing is born out of concern for our perception, then it's doubly important to not get bogged down in a movement that's just going to further cement the negative perception you're already fighting against.

 

[Noaloha]

Please, noisily abandon this shitty hashtag.

 

[Orayn]

Please, noisily abandon this shitty hashtag.

When I see this posted in their Gamergate threads, half of /v/ cheers and the other half accuses the former half of being double agents from Team Anita/Zoe. That's the way they seem to respond to any bad behavior associated with Gamergate, really; it must be a plant, someone who's just trying to make us look bad.

It's shills all the way down.

 

[JackDT]

The reason why #gamergate people are getting a strong negative reaction is because of what it started from and what it continues to focus on.

Why is #gamergate happening now? Because of recent events, right, that started a question on game eithics?

Because Zoe slept her way to positive 'reviews' for her free game, because journalists paying their own money for games on Patreons makes you less likely to find it believe them when they say say like a game. On freelance women journalists living below the poverty line like Jenn Frank, running them out of the industry. On Maddy Myers who ironically does write about the nepotism of the 'old boys club' in gaming.

https://twitter.com/samusclone/status/507609686116278272
https://twitter.com/samusclone/status/507610542597369857

Weird, "destroying corruption in games" looks a lot like "bullying the tiny minority of women who are in the games industry until they quit"

Since none of us have any real power or huge salaries, esp women who are freelancers & contractors, it's easy to make the "job" not worth it

How much do you really think indie devs & freelance games critics make? newsflash: less than minimum wage for all the ppl who've quit so far

Like wow much congrats over getting rid of the lowest common denominator in games with the least actual power, money, or influence

"BUT THEY WERE POWERFUL! THEY MADE FRIENDS WITH PEOPLE IN THE INDUSTRY!" yeah, b/c that was literally all we COULD do. think about it. THINK

Charts of "corruption rings" ppl are making, just depicting lil groups of impoverished artists who know each other & a handful of staffers.

Like oh my god PLEASE stop these women from earning $2K a year IT'S GOT TO STOP

The supposed "attack on gamers" is actually just the fact that everybody games, now, so "gamer" no longer refers to an exclusive subculture.

If you want to find corruption, follow the money. Don't follow the people who have no money. This is like ... basic corruption-finding shit

"I hear some journalists get free swag... but ignore those guys! Women are writing about games for pennies an hour via donations! STOP THEM"

Every single bit is misguided so far and in some cases is the exact opposite of 'ethis in games' banner.

 

[RMI]

For people who still feel inclined to associate yourself with Gamergate (trigger warnings abound), these are the people who historically affiliated with it:

It's about ethics and integrity! (taken from chatlog)

We gamers are concerned about games journalism and corruption!

"Child porn is okay if you use it to harass a woman"

disgusting. There's no saving this fucking mess. I don't blame people for trying to distance themselves from the "gamer" identity. It hurts a bit, because I do love video games, and have for most of my life. But as a 31 year old dude with other responsibilities, responsibilities that don't involve fighting in bs hate campaigns under the guise of journalistic reform, I don't want to be associated with any of this crap at all.

 

[Lime]

What ants can teach us about Gamergate

 

[Stet]

ants are so awesome

 

[MrHoot]

For people who still feel inclined to associate yourself with Gamergate (trigger warnings abound), these are the people who historically affiliated with it:

It's about ethics and integrity! (taken from chatlog)

We gamers are concerned about games journalism and corruption!

"Child porn is okay if you use it to harass a woman"

Honestly, apart from just obviously saying "Yes, there are assholes within the gamergate movement", I don't see the point there This constant demonizing and flood of cherrypicked screencas on both sides is getting tedious. It's basically doing the same thing as taking the posts from the guy who ludicrously said "gamers are worse than ISIS" and the like and say "LOOK, this is what we're fighting for, these people represent the whole group"

Seriously, if we wanna play the screencap game, I could just post this
http://i.imgur.com/kbIhMnp.jpg

This doesn't mean anything but just to illustrate we could go all day and all night with cherrypicked caps. Like someone said, it's shills all the way down. I have very little trust on the "evidence" of both side, as it's like trying to chose which is the most objective between two propaganda posters