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[JackDT]

Skimmed the gg hubs for some reason tonight, still a ton of talk about Zoe Quinn. The codename 'LW' thing (LW2 = Anita Sarkeesian?) is really weird. If the idea is to make those places less about those people... don't special codenames totally totally defeat the purpose? From outside it appears even more obsessed than not having codenames?

 

[Galactic Fork]

I'm surprised it hasn't been granted yet, actually.

I love all gamers. Is it OK to love all gamers and therefore not feel strongly about this topic one way or another? Just wanted to know and then I'll be on my way to another thread where I can contribute more to the conversation.

Hrm. I don't really know all gamers, so I can't really be sure of my emotions on all of them. But why are you asking permission? What exactly are you trying to communicate with your post? Am I just really tired and not fully able to read comprehensively?

Skimmed the gg hubs for some reason tonight, still a ton of talk about Zoe Quinn. The codename 'LW' thing (LW2 = Anita Sarkeesian?) is really weird. If the idea is to make those places less about those people... don't special codenames totally totally defeat the purpose? From outside it appears even more obsessed than not having codenames?

Perhaps it's a way to trick the word count thingie... So it doesn't look like they mention them 6000 times, they mention the LW or LW2 a bunch. Totally different?

 

[TestOfTide]

No. All content relating to video games is banned from NeoGAF. You are cast into the outer darkness for partaking in the forbidden fruit of electronic entertainment.

we are now Neo#GGAF

 

[JackDT]

Hrm. I don't really know all gamers, so I can't really be sure of my emotions on all of them. But why are you asking permission? What exactly are you trying to communicate with your post? Am I just really tired and not fully able to read comprehensively?

I'm pretty sure that poster is making light of the over-the-topness of needing a self-ban to avoid having to sign up to sides in the gamergate wars.

 

[Orayn]

Skimmed the gg hubs for some reason tonight, still a ton of talk about Zoe Quinn. The codename 'LW' thing (LW2 = Anita Sarkeesian?) is really weird. If the idea is to make those places less about those people... don't special codenames totally totally defeat the purpose? From outside it appears even more obsessed than not having codenames?

They're talking about possible ways to DESTROY NEOGAF in their new thread about Boogie getting banned. Not sponsor stuff, but suggesting that people fuck with the site.

ETHICS

 

[freddy]

I've noticed that a lot of people in this thread are back top using "Gamers" and "Gamer" again. There was a time when even using that was toxic.

 

[Goon Boon]

She should go for the debate, if she's confident she's in the right, she'd wreck him in a debate.

 

[Devolution]

What would there even be to debate? This both sides shit has to stop.

 

[JackDT]

They're talking about possible ways to DESTROY NEOGAF in their new thread about Boogie getting banned. Not sponsor stuff, but suggesting that people fuck with the site.

ETHICS

on 8chan? I didn't see anything that bad on the reddit. W.T.F.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Good morning.

I'm here to request my ban.

As a consumer of videogame media, I don't feel, from being a part of the NeoGAF community, neither correctly represented nor safe anymore by the current moderation line.

Thanks to the community however for having informed and entertained me for all these years. It was a privilege to shoot pixels with you and cheer and cry at media create sales.

People who want to stop coming just have to, like, stop coming.

People who want attention make sure everyone knows why.

 

[Galactic Fork]

What would there even be to debate? This both sides shit has to stop.

Well for Zoe, since she's not a gaming journalist and only role in this whole thing is getting harassed, perhaps they want some middle ground where they only harass her half as much?

People who want to stop coming just have to, like, stop coming.

People who want attention make sure everyone knows why.

I just wish that if someone decides to flounce in such a way, they would be clear about it. It's gonna keep me up for days wondering what they meant.

 

[JackDT]

Seems pretty screwed up to me.

I was contacted and asked by @HuffingtonPost to come on live and discuss my experiences with gamergate. I agreed cause why not

Then, other people contacted me asking what I knew about the @HuffingtonPost thing saying they were invited too, which confused me

I asked my contact for more details because it no longer sounded like an interview and more like a panel

I was told that it was to be a debate with "no side trashing the other and reasonable people from both sides"

I asked who they got from "gamergate", kind of starting to panic considering I've been living the last 2 months under constant threats

I was basically told "don't worry about it/we don't have details" but then I see this

Basically, they almost walked me into a debate with the guy who runs 8chan, the place that doxxed brianna and distributes my nudes

"Hey, borderline suicidal person, wanna get called a lying whore on national broadcast for the sake of a smokescreen of ethics?"

"come have a civil debate with your abusers" I'm not your fucking clickbait

I expressed more concern about all this and haven't heard back because jesus fuck I just almost walked into a fucking trap

and I am pretty fucking upset about almost being walked into a "debate" with a man who runs the site where a lot of my abusers congregate

that's fucking beyond inconsiderate and actively fucked up for people who are trying to fucking survive this shit

there are still fucking threads on 8chan picking apart every detail of my friends and colleagues and snickering about what I look like naked

I'd like to say they don't know, but once again I'm sick of having to be the one to fucking look into this shit

this is my fucking life. these are my family and friends lives. why would you try and use us as fucking clickbait?

 

[Squire]

What would there even be to debate? This both sides shit has to stop.

Truly the greatest fallacy of all.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I'm surprised it hasn't been granted yet, actually.

I love all gamers. Is it OK to love all gamers and therefore not feel strongly about this topic one way or another? Just wanted to know and then I'll be on my way to another thread where I can contribute more to the conversation.

Now I kind of want him to never get banned. To be forced to be a part of this terrible NeoGaf community forever. He could become a legendary ghost only talked about in hushed whispers.

"I've heard some nights you can hear him wandering OT. If you listen you can hear his plaintive wail: 'EEEEEETHHHHHIIIIIIICS' "

 

[Devolution]

Well for Zoe, since she's not a gaming journalist and only role in this whole thing is getting harassed, perhaps they want some middle ground where they only harass her half as much?.

What does the abuse, stalking and harassment of various women in the industry have to do with transparency.

Oh, right, not a fucking thing.

 

[Tetsuo9]

What would there even be to debate? This both sides shit has to stop.

Because audiences of radio or tv shows are probably not familiar with the timeline of events and facts. When you present them with explanations on how gamergate is bad and it needs to end, they will still want to hear the other side. It's fairly obvious in my opinion.

 

[Messofanego]

it started that way. I thought it could change, but its obvious it can't as no one wants to listen. It's only "You're evil!" "no we're not!" over and over, for ever. The funniest thing is that the real debate to be had won't ever be had now because it will be a constant dicussion of attack and defend.

Meanwhile we'll keep having the Shadows of Modor bullshit going on and the continuation of other nonsense. So thats why I said maybe those people who DO care about ethics should abandon it now, because now the conversation has been set, and much like american politics, liberal and conservative, once you're branded as either, many people will write you off.

I hope the ladies involved understand that a few horrible people don't represent all gamers, and I hope the gamers understand that this conversation effectively is over. it's too late. Once real life was brought into it, it ended any chance of it being salvaged.

Completely agreed. The sooner #gamergate people realise the conversation on ethics is over, the better. Any anti-gamergate people directly insulting pro-gamergate people is just adding fuel to the fire. Move on to a better cause or hashtag. Right now, it's just a war.

At least the Shadow of Mordor brand deal is getting resolved, changes are happening to Youtuber brand deal contracts (just wish they didn't even have to exist) and hopefully publishers will stop using Plaid Social Studio as a PR firm.

 

[Corpekata]

I'm struggling to think what the questions between HotWheels and Quinn would even be about. Like, they're both related and on opposite sides, sure, but not really in the same sphere. I could see Quinn debating say, one of the supposed blacklisted indie devs that claim the clique is keeping them out. But just grabbing random people and putting them together doesn't seem like it would go anywhere.

 

[Squire]

Because audiences of radio or tv shows are probably not familiar with the timeline of events and facts. When you present them with explanations on how gamergate is bad and it needs to end, they will still want to hear the other side. It's fairly obvious in my opinion.

If you're told nerds on the internet are harassing women in the name of "ethics" in video game coverage and your first inclination is to hear them out, you've probably already made up your mind.

No one should care to hear it because there's no excuse.

 

[Galactic Fork]

Because audiences of radio or tv shows are probably are familiar with the timeline of events and facts. When you present them with explanations on how gamergate is bad and it needs to end, they will still want to hear the other side. It's fairly obvious in my opinion.

But Zoe Quinn? Really? What part of the "journalistic ethics" narrative would she debate? What does she have to do with that? What part of the "reviews must be consumer reports" narrative would she debate? Her only part in this whole mess was being harassed. The only relevant thing she could debate is whether or not she should be harassed.

 

[JackDT]

Well Zoe did get a three word mention on that blog post on RPS.

 

[Tetsuo9]

But Zoe Quinn? Really? What part of the "journalistic ethics" narrative would she debate? What does she have to do with that? What part of the "reviews must be consumer reports" narrative would she debate? Her only part in this whole mess was being harassed. The only relevant thing she could debate is whether or not she should be harassed.

those are questions that we should ask to the producer, because I agree it makes no sense.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Made the mistake of going into another game forum's GamerGate thread.

Left quickly after realizing all too late that I had posted in it.

Wait, people on NeoGAF were trying to drive out an Obsidian concept artist because the artist was Asian? Holy crap, that's messed up.

Not drive out, no, and I can now see how, in context of this thread, my words could be interpreted that way.

I was just trying to give examples of the knee-jerk reaction "gamers" have to The Other working on Their Thing.

What happened was everyone was upset that PoE's concept art looked so "normal", and some people very heavily implied that the culprit was, in the update, Obsidian mentioning they had an intern who had a decidedly Asian-sounding name or whatever. The logic being that this nameless, faceless guy must obviously be having culture issues with an American company. That is why the art looked so shitty.

It's the same deal with the girl on Mighty No. 9, and the same deal with Jennifer Helper on DA2.

 

[Archurro]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but the amount that right-wing politics has taken over GG is incredible, especially watching this over the past month. Especially from Milo Yiannopoulos, his ability to frame it as "Feminist liberals are trying to take your games, and us conservatives are trying to help you keep them!" is so odd.

 

[Messofanego]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but the amount that right-wing politics has taken over GG is incredible, especially watching this over the past month. Especially from Milo Yiannopoulos, his ability to frame it as "Feminist liberals are trying to take your games, and us conservatives are trying to help you keep them!" is so odd.

It's too bad #gamergate people have latched on to complete randoms like Milo or that "real feminist" lady or other people victim blaming and haven't found enough reasonable voices yet, like maybe a respected games journalist who somehow happens to be pro-gamergate. Signal boosting these people who have nothing to do with the games industry is only hurting. Even that Escapist article with male developers was not great.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but the amount that right-wing politics has taken over GG is incredible, especially watching this over the past month. Especially from Milo Yiannopoulos, his ability to frame it as "Feminist liberals are trying to take your games, and us conservatives are trying to help you keep them!" is so odd.

It's so odd, hearing actual news reporting on GamerGate. NPR? Really? Huffington Post?

On one hand, it's great.

 

[FyreWulff]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but the amount that right-wing politics has taken over GG is incredible, especially watching this over the past month. Especially from Milo Yiannopoulos, his ability to frame it as "Feminist liberals are trying to take your games, and us conservatives are trying to help you keep them!" is so odd.

It's always been right wing astroturf.

The videos that supported it initially basically went down the right wing checklist.

The followers that fully invest espouse right wing views.

The name was created by a rich right winger who used his influence to launch it.

 

[Fredescu]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but the amount that right-wing politics has taken over GG is incredible

I know what you're saying, but it was a right-wing movement from start, it wasn't taken over as such. It was started by Adam Baldwin and has always been about getting rid of an "agenda" for "social justice".

 

[LiegeWaffle]

Has this been posted? http://cathodedebris.tumblr.com/pos...apists-alexander-marcis-has-been-crowdfunding

I don't know anything about The Escapist or it's people. This might be conspiracy territory.

I thought we have already discussed the question about why it is not unethical for a game journalist to report on a game they backed, back when Kotaku announced that their reporters are no longer allowed to sponsor Patreons for the developers.

Our parents trusted "The New York Times," whereas we acknowledge that a certain set of people make the NYT what it is. Personality-driven journalism shifts the trust bond from the outlet to the person. You may not like Kotaku, but you trust Jason. The rest of Destructoid may not be for you, but you follow Max Scoville. That's completely different from the days where the trust bond was with a newspaper's masthead, not any particular writer. And occasionally you build something like Giant Bomb, where you have a while host of personalities in one place.

Reading games media became so much more rewarding for me when I started paying attention to the authors' name. On the other hand, I wonder how much such personality-focused reporting has contributed to the fact that game journalists are harassed personally.

I don't think there's as bold a line between Personality and Content as you might think.

I'm a big fan of Giant Bomb, and yes it is largely because of entertainment reasons, which is where the personality mostly goes.

But when they talk about games, because I'm spending time watching and listening to these guys for hours and hours a week, I get to know their personalities, and how they align with mine. This is especially useful when it comes to reviews. Everyone is going to approach a game differently, and because I'm so familiar with their personalities, I can use that to get an even better idea of a game than just a stock review by someone I've never heard of.

It also doesn't stop them, especially Patrick, from being able to put on the investigative reporting hat when it's needed. He's still one of the best in the business when it comes to straight up Scoops, but the fact is that a 24 hour news site for games ends up a barren hellscape. If you want sustainable traffic that doesn't rely on big current events or games or hot scoops then you need something more. Whether that be editorials, dev interviews, vaguely game related bullshit, or quality video content.

Yeah, the Games Media is probably moving steadily towards more personality driven content, but that doesn't mean the old kind will disappear entirely, nor is its quality necessarily compromised.

I am not sure the divide between Personality and Content is that meaningful. Even when they are not blended together to the extent that personality is the content (think New Journalism writers like Tim Rogers), Personality pretty much is tied to Content. Is Jim Sterling known for his colorful rants because he talks about industry issues, or vice versa? Do I listen to Kyle Bosman because of his cool and straightforward demeanor, or because said demeanor causes a very interesting perspective on industry issues?

This is true for traditional reporting as well. Let's take, say, interviews. Interviews are a rather formal form of journalism (as opposed to, say, inviting a person to a podcast to talk). Yet "an interview with Hironobu Sakaguchi" and "an interview with Hironobu Sakaguchi by Jason Schreier" are two different things, because in the latter case I know for sure that this is going to be an informed conversation between two people who really love JRPGs even before I start reading it.

I believe this is essentially the cure from the hype-driven preview-oriented games journalism many are so upset about. Once I know that for every gaming-related issue I may want to learn about there is a relatable person who would tell me about it, I will never turn back to the world of people who would sell their souls for a chance to publish a review ahead of embargo and get more clicks. Of course, finding such people might seem like a barrier, but since social media are so widespread right now, I do not think this is that much of a problem. The ranks of YouTubers already almost entirely consist of such kind of people, since there were not that many Authority Gaming Outlets there to begin with.

 

[moffattron9000]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but the amount that right-wing politics has taken over GG is incredible, especially watching this over the past month. Especially from Milo Yiannopoulos, his ability to frame it as "Feminist liberals are trying to take your games, and us conservatives are trying to help you keep them!" is so odd.

I've got three theories on why this is the case.

1. Many of these Right Wingers are seeing a chance to get some of that elusive youth vote
2. Seeing the Call of Duties of the world become the norm of video games, they are suddenly far more receptive of them
3. The narrative of Gamergate fits the right-wing delusions of being oppressed, and they've taken to the forming narrative

I'm probably talking out of my ass in many respects, but it's the best idea I've got right now.

 

[Corto]

Leo Laporte and his guests on This Week in Tech talked about Gamergate. Nilay Patel EIC of The Verge made a preamble about gaming press historical problematic relationship with PR arms of publishers i.e. access control and content gatekeeping by publishers and how Gamergate fails to address this instead focusing in fighting criticism towards video games as a culture medium. Leo Laporte defined the movement as bogus and having a very specific focus towards attacking women and completely devoid of logic fighting for a more ethical gaming press and free of corruption and in the next step making concerted campaign pressuring companies to remove their ads from some outlets to stop them broadcasting opposing views, actively censoring them. Nilay Patel also disclosed that some of his writers were attacked by the movement, so he had a strong bias against it.

Also, it's Leo strong opinion that Twitter is at fault too in this whole ordeal. Enabling these sort of campaigns by its passivity on not curating its own platform.

http://twit.tv/show/this-week-in-tech/479

It's in the last 20-30 minutes of this episode.

 

[Masta_K!lla]

I've been a lurker here for years, but this whole situation has really illuminated how hypocritical the owner/mods of this site are. After the skimming through this thread I was saddened to see what a cesspool this site has become. Screw you guys, I'd rather go back to gamefaqs Kappa

I end my first/last post with this video. Peace
#GAMERGATE

 

[benjipwns]

I've been a lurker here for years, but this whole situation has really illuminated how hypocritical the owner/mods of this site are. After the skimming through this thread I was saddened to see what a cesspool this site has become. Screw you guys, I'd rather go back to gamefaqs Kappa

I end my first/last post with this video. Peace
#GAMERGATE

Thanks, this video actually convinced me.

 

[Corto]

I've been a lurker here for years, but this whole situation has really illuminated how hypocritical the owner/mods of this site are. After the skimming through this thread I was saddened to see what a cesspool this site has become. Screw you guys, I'd rather go back to gamefaqs Kappa

I end my first/last post with this video. Peace
#GAMERGATE

 

[Lalalandia]

I've been a lurker here for years, but this whole situation has really illuminated how hypocritical the owner/mods of this site are. After the skimming through this thread I was saddened to see what a cesspool this site has become. Screw you guys, I'd rather go back to gamefaqs Kappa

I end my first/last post with this video. Peace
#GAMERGATE

Hahhahahahahhaahhaahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha no.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I've been a lurker here for years, but this whole situation has really illuminated how hypocritical the owner/mods of this site are. After the skimming through this thread I was saddened to see what a cesspool this site has become. Screw you guys, I'd rather go back to gamefaqs Kappa

I end my first/last post with this video. Peace

a true patriot

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Kappa? Someone's gonna have to explain that part to me.

 

[Galactic Fork]

I've been a lurker here for years, but this whole situation has really illuminated how hypocritical the owner/mods of this site are. After the skimming through this thread I was saddened to see what a cesspool this site has become. Screw you guys, I'd rather go back to gamefaqs Kappa

I end my first/last post with this video. Peace
#GAMERGATE

Whelp, I now know I've wasted all my time on the wrong side. Thank you. The healing can begin. I shall name my first child after you. Would you like me to send you pictures of little Masta_K!lla?

 

[TheJesusFish]

Kappa? Someone's gonna have to explain that part to me.

It's replaced "SYKE" in the children's lexicon.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Kappa? Someone's gonna have to explain that part to me.

FGC shorthand for "this is sarcasm"

 

[Galactic Fork]

FGC shorthand for "this is sarcasm"

Sarcasm's usually better when you don't have to explain it's sarcasm.
(What's FGC?)

Hmm should I add "kappa" to my post above? That was totally sarcasm.

 

[docbon]

Its one of those pitchfork wielding turtle monsters you see in goemon :kappa

Edit: It's dope seeing the techtv dudes I grew up watching calling out the movement for what it is.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

If this continues Gaf will be devoid of users tomorrow morning. #stopthebleeding

I legitemately thought Kappa is the final fantasy monkey-thing....
/s

 

[Neoriceisgood]

If this continues Gaf will be devoid of users tomorrow morning. #stopthebleeding

I legitemately thought Kappa is the final fantasy monkey-thing....

We'd have to lose 6k members every hour for that to happen, so I think you don't have to worry too much.

 

[Galactic Fork]

We'd have to lose 6k members every hour for that to happen, so I think you don't have to worry too much.

Hmmm maybe Kappa or a general sarcasm tag is useful after all.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

We'd have to lose 6k members every hour for that to happen, so I think you don't have to worry too much.

If already seen 2 users leave. Neogaf has approximately 7-10 users. Do the math man, do the math!!

I seriously need to use /s more

 

[Corto]

If this continues Gaf will be devoid of users tomorrow morning. #stopthebleeding

I legitemately thought Kappa is the final fantasy monkey-thing....

Nah. These are the equivalent of the egg accounts on Twitter. Just throw-away accounts used to talk nonsense and give some extra work to moderators.

edit: I understood your sarcasm, just commenting on this phenomena that will increase in the next hours/days?

 

[BanGy.nz]

Also, it's Leo strong opinion that Twitter is at fault too in this whole ordeal. Enabling these sort of campaigns by its passivity on not curating its own platform.

That is a fantastic point, harassment has been a problem on the platform since the beginning and they've not done enough to mitigate it. Their reporting system needs a massive overall.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

-

That is a fantastic point, harassment has been a problem on the platform since the beginning and they've done fuck all to mitigate it.

Twitter's actually made it worse at points, they fundamentally screwed up the block button a while back but the userbase got so angry they retracted it iirc.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Nah. These are the equivalent of the egg accounts on Twitter. Just throw-away accounts used to talk nonsense and give some extra work to moderators.

edit: I understood your sarcasm, just commenting on this phenomena that will increase in the next hours/days?

Hey, I hav an egg account on Twitter! I probably should change the profile pic.