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Gaming pubs argue over journalistic integrity

S

sugaki

I live my life one quarter-mile at a time
Yeah it's a games.net story, but the comments for the article are an interesting since it's mostly banter between mag pubs (GI/Gamepro/EGM). EGM EIC's blog's supposed to be updated soon too, interesting to see what ensues.

http://www.games.net/features/106644.shtml

Is EGM the most reputable? Dunno, I think gamers are more focused online so maybe's it's not such a major issue.
 
EGM's Editor-in-Chief, Dan Hsu, suggests that a number of publications--in both the print and online markets--are on the proverbial "take." But Hsu complicates matters by not overtly naming any of the suspect outlets.
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I bet he's talking about 1up. All those guys drive around in Porsches. :)
 
Summary of Article:

Dan gets on EGM high horse saying "we don't do that shit, and we don't care that we don't do that shit while others do." And "If you don't care so much Mr. Hsu, why not let out the ones who do 'the shit?"

End or article.
 
C- Warrior said:
Summary of Article:

Dan gets on EGM high horse saying "we don't do that shit, and we don't care that we don't do that shit while others do." And "If you don't care so much Mr. Hsu, why not let out the ones who do 'the shit?"

End or article.
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No one likes a tattle tail.
 
Gaming pubs argue over journalistic integrity
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:lol :lol :lol

I once argued on here that it's obvious that some game magazine writers are getting kickbacks from game publishers for good reviews. I was basically told I was a paranoid idiot for even thinking such a thing, that game magazine writers are far above such petty concerns as the almight dollar.

Haha, retards.
 
God who cares

Really

Like it somehow affects the quality of the articles? They should all stick their greedy fingers into this nonexistent money pie, and suck from the teat of corporate payouts, meanwhile continuing to write the same lame crap that makes hardcore gaming nerds read GAF for gaming news instead of subscribing to their lame ass magazines

Then again, I can't explain the popularity of review threads here, so maybe I'm way off base, and people are actually closet web/print mag fanatics.
 
Nintendo Ate My Children said:
:lol :lol :lol

I once argued on here that it's obvious that some game magazine writers are getting kickbacks from game publishers for good reviews. I was basically told I was a paranoid idiot for even thinking such a thing, that game magazine writers are far above such petty concerns as the almight dollar.

Haha, retards.
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Heh, preach...
 
Nintendo Ate My Children said:
:lol :lol :lol

I once argued on here that it's obvious that some game magazine writers are getting kickbacks from game publishers for good reviews. I was basically told I was a paranoid idiot for even thinking such a thing, that game magazine writers are far above such petty concerns as the almight dollar.

Haha, retards.
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I became a true believer after this review. Ever since i've needed to seek 2nd and 3rd opinions before buying a game i wasn't sure about.
 
No other industry in the world, be it minute or collosal, has a worse journalistic body than the gaming industry today. Plain and simple.
 
Saying that EGM has more integrity than Game Informer is like saying that Camel cigarettes are healthier than Winstons. It could be true for all I know, but it doesn't change the fact that both are going to kill you.
 
Heian-kyo said:
No other industry in the world, be it minute or collosal, has a worse journalistic body than the gaming industry today. Plain and simple.
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Obviously they're catering to the English comprehension level of their readers and critics alike.
 
In a follow-up comment, Dan Hsu asks:

If you were given this information (about shady dealings), but you couldn't reveal who it was (or confront them on it), but you had a soapbox to alert readers and the industry (and to clear your own name at the same time since people have assumed anyway that all of the gaming press was "on the take")...would you take advantage of that opportunity or would you keep quiet about it or...? Obviously, those of you who work on competing mags would say that I shouldn't have done this, but what if you were just the average reader? Would you rather EGM reveal this (in the way that I did) or not at all?

______________________________

Doesn't this beg the question - if I'm a reader and you tell me pubs ae crooked, but won't name names, does that leave me better off than when I didn't even know the issue existed? Does it essentially end up leaving you more confused and mistrustful? it's sort of like saying "someone in this room has a bomb, but I"m not going to tell you who it is." Is the resulting paranoia a good thing?
 
106644_1.jpg


"Lara has jugs like this."

I believe the discussion should be left to private conversation because, as stated, it might be misconstrued as just crying.
 
He can't name names 'cos it's all hearsay (it's not like EICs would tell each other these things) and he could be subject to a libel suit if he did. Is what I think. That, and it is indeed more of a private issue than anything -- making it public would mostly incite emotions and not solve anything.
 
fennec fox said:
He can't name names 'cos it's all hearsay (it's not like EICs would tell each other these things) and he could be subject to a libel suit if he did. Is what I think. That, and it is indeed more of a private issue than anything -- making it public would mostly incite emotions and not solve anything.
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Word. Phone or email the other publisher and call him an arse - that would be more effective.
 
Heian-kyo said:
No other industry in the world, be it minute or collosal, has a worse journalistic body than the gaming industry today. Plain and simple.
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Probably the most intelligent thing I've ever heard was someone (Someone from 1UP I think?) say something to the fact that he views his job as "being a gamer who likes to write about games." Not some sort of super authority or special entity. That is precisely the attitude I want to see. +respect points.
 
when i read the title of this thread I thought "gaming pub" meant like a place you could get beer on tap and play games.
 
Well, if crooked stuff is going on then why doesn't someone get the authorities involved? Unless someone is willing to do that, then they should just shut up. I honestly think the industry is crooked but unless someone is willing to back up their claims with proof and such, it just makes them easy to brand as crying wolf.
 
Senretsu said:
Probably the most intelligent thing I've ever heard was someone (Someone from 1UP I think?) say something to the fact that he views his job as "being a gamer who likes to write about games." Not some sort of super authority or special entity. That is precisely the attitude I want to see. +respect points.
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That would be me actually. ;)

Anyway, it's interesting how Johnny Korea comments like he's an observant 3rd party when he, in fact, wrote the games.net article. :P

And Fennec Fox is right about the whole libel suit. I think it's very interesting to see all these editors in this thread crying kneejerk indignance at Shoe's soapbox rant. Maybe instead of writing up his own defensive editorial and posting it as industry news on games.net, Johnny Korea should have just called up Shoe (or said something to his face as there's always plenty of opportunity) like someone here suggested. I know for a fact that Game Informer is always very good and professional about contacting us directly whenever they feel insulted.

Nice beer, Froman. It's making me want to drink one now.
 
chespace said:
I know for a fact that Game Informer is always very good and professional about contacting us directly whenever they feel insulted.
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wait... what? They ring up and basically say, "you hurt our feelings..." *sob sniff*

that's funny :lol
 
Well, I'm glad someone brought this out. Everyone suspected it and nobody wanted to talk about it. This just might be something that will get people to think twice about how they review games.
 
Senretsu said:
Probably the most intelligent thing I've ever heard was someone (Someone from 1UP I think?) say something to the fact that he views his job as "being a gamer who likes to write about games." Not some sort of super authority or special entity. That is precisely the attitude I want to see. +respect points.
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I have an even simplier definition for game mag/website writers...professional fanboys. Basically puts things into their proper perspective.





TheJesusFactor said:
Well, I'm glad someone brought this out. Everyone suspected it and nobody wanted to talk about it. This just might be something that will get people to think twice about how they review games.
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If I'm getting monthly kickbacks from EA to boost the score for every game I review up two points, what's this rant gonna do to me? Jack and shit, that's what. Unless someone else is gonna replace the dosh in my sock draw, I'm selling out till the cows come home. And who's gonna call me on it? I'm not aware of ethical practices board that the gaming media subscribes to.
 
chespace said:
That would be me actually. ;)

Anyway, it's interesting how Johnny Korea comments like he's an observant 3rd party when he, in fact, wrote the games.net article. :P

And Fennec Fox is right about the whole libel suit. I think it's very interesting to see all these editors in this thread crying kneejerk indignance at Shoe's soapbox rant. Maybe instead of writing up his own defensive editorial and posting it as industry news on games.net, Johnny Korea should have just called up Shoe (or said something to his face as there's always plenty of opportunity) like someone here suggested. I know for a fact that Game Informer is always very good and professional about contacting us directly whenever they feel insulted.

Nice beer, Froman. It's making me want to drink one now.
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Since when did an editorial become "industry news?" Also, once the letter goes public, as it did, given that it's in a national magazine, I think it pretty much passes the point of being a private issue. It's there for the public to read, therefore, it's there for me to comment on - in public. Frankly, if you're not willing to discuss the matter in a public forum, what's the point of printing the letter in the first place for the entire world to see? And, what's more professional - throwing out a blanket accusation about an entire industry or calling someone out to, at the very least, clarify those accusations?
 
JohnnyKorea said:
Since when did an editorial become "industry news?" Also, once the letter goes public, as it did, given that it's in a national magazine, I think it pretty much passes the point of being a private issue. It's there for the public to read, therefore, it's there for me to comment on - in public. Frankly, if you're not willing to discuss the matter in a public forum, what's the point of printing the letter in the first place for the entire world to see?
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And since when is a magazine editorial to its readership a "public letter" to the industry?

If you have a problem with what Shoe said, it's a private matter between you and him.

Your editorial (sorry, I mistook it as "news" on your site) only fanned the fire, as it were.

Edit: And I really should stop commenting now, lest I find myself jobless in the morning. :)
 
chespace said:
And since when is a magazine editorial to its readership a "public letter" to the industry?

If you have a problem with what Shoe said, it's a private matter between you and him.

Your editorial (sorry, I mistook it as "news" on your site) only fanned the fire, as it were.

Edit: And I really should stop commenting now, lest I find myself jobless in the morning. :)
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I have to agree with Johnny Korea here, Che. EGM is a very respected magazine, and its published commentary is read by a lot of people in the game industry. Once that commentary, in the form of hundreds of thousands of copies of the magazine, reaches the general public, it's fair game for further commentary and criticism.

Finger-pointing and mudslinging serve no purpose. But I think Dan Hsu opened a very real topic for debate, much as Alex Pham did with her "Playola" article. There are people who write about games, be they gamers covering their passion, trained journalists with real-world experience doing news and features for "respected" venues, and people who've entered the field from other mediums, who are struggling to answer some very pressing questions about what they do and how it's done.
 
MC Safety said:
I have to agree with Johnny Korea here, Che. EGM is a very respected magazine, and its published commentary is read by a lot of people in the game industry. Once that commentary, in the form of hundreds of thousands of copies of the magazine, reaches the general public, it's fair game for further commentary and criticism.

Finger-pointing and mudslinging serve no purpose. But I think Dan Hsu opened a very real topic for debate, much as Alex Pham did with her "Playola" article. There are people who write about games, be they gamers covering their passion, trained journalists with real-world experience doing news and features for "respected" venues, and people who've entered the field from other mediums, who are struggling to answer some very pressing questions about what they do and how it's done.
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The only topic for debate Shoe opened is that it might be argued he needs 13-14 of these...

crownroyal.jpg


...Chris Cook too.

I'll buy Ed Semrad one too.
 
I have no idea why there's so much attention being placed on Dan Hsu and EGM and 1up et al. If you ask me, the 'real' bad guys are the software publishers who are offering these kickbacks. At the very least they're as bad as the EICs who take the bribes.

I'll happily name a couple of software publishers I know that offer kickbacks for favourable press coverage: Activision and Atari.
 
We have some classic stories of reviews being bought here in the U.K and the opposite where PRs don't send out code and journos give a shit review.

A mate at a PS2 mag here was offered a flight to New York to guarantee GTA 3 a 9 out of 10, as the PRs didn't believe in it! Conversely, Edge were told to go out and buy their own copy and Oh look, it got a 6 out of 10. How did that happen. Hmmm...

Likewise, they weren't invited to the Sony party a few years back and Rapid Racer got a 6 out of 10. Okay, so it was my baby, but still, I'd have given it a 7... ;-)
 
Really, I don't see the controversy here.

Especially on GAF, where every review is either biased or based off of some under-the-counter money hats (usually from EA).... :lol :lol
 
Senretsu said:
Probably the most intelligent thing I've ever heard was someone (Someone from 1UP I think?) say something to the fact that he views his job as "being a gamer who likes to write about games." Not some sort of super authority or special entity. That is precisely the attitude I want to see. +respect points.
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Wouldn't it be better with a writer who likes to play games?
 
Its unfortunate, and gamers get the short end of the stick by buying crap software. Next gen is worse, when you're stuck with a $60 piece of turd because some editor took a cash advance and you believed what he wrote.
 
All he's doing is clarifying to his readership that their mag has integrity to it's readership, I see nothing wrong with that and he has no obligation to name names. If I was a subscriber I'd be reassured to know this amidst a crowded market of questionable journalism around the globe or right next door. Then again I think most here are discerning enough to realize that these people offer nothing but their opinions bought or not and are well versed in gaming enough to intelligently form our own.
 
Good response, but I think that begs the question - are accusations even the way to go, if you consider your readership to be intelligent enough to make their own opinions on the matter?
 
Actually I think I can vouch for his mag's integrity. It was the only freelance gig where I had to pay for my flight to the assignment up front (to be paid for later by Ziff).

Most of the time, the PR looks after ALL expenses.

NO OTHER PUBLICATION does this in my experience. I believe the reason for this is so that you don't feel cared for or rather in debt to the PRs looking after you for that trip. I have a lot of respect for that, despite my wallet bleeding for a week or so. Thank the heavens their accountants actualy pay you on time (unlike Future, Dennis and other such arsehole publishers).
 
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