• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Gay marriage ban fails in Congress... again

Status
Not open for further replies.
Fucking pathetic... for the gay-bashers.
Antigay constitutional amendment fails to get two-thirds majority

The Republican-controlled House of Representatives failed to pass a proposed constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage Thursday, the latest in a string of conservative pet causes pushed to a vote in the run-up to Election Day. The final vote was 227 in favor of the amendment and 186 opposed, which fell 63 votes short of the two-thirds majority needed to pass a constitutional amendment.

"God created Adam and Eve; he didn't create Adam and Steve," said Rep. Roscoe Bartlett, a Maryland Republican, on behalf of a measure that supporters said was designed to protect an institution as old as civilization itself.

But even among majority Republicans, the issue generated dissent.

Majority Leader Tom DeLay of Texas was the principal speaker on behalf of the measure, taking a role that is almost always reserved for the chairman of the committee with jurisdiction. In this case, though, the leadership bypassed the Judiciary Committee, and GOP officials said the panel's chairman, Rep. James Sensenbrenner of Wisconsin, made clear he wanted no part of the debate. His spokesman did not immediately return a call on why he took that position.

Critics saw it differently.

"We feel love and we feel it in a way different than you," said Rep. Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat who is openly gay. "We feel it with someone of the same sex, male or female, and we look at your institution of marriage and we see the joy it brings. How do we hurt you when we share it?"

Another Massachusetts Democrat, Rep. Jim McGovern, quoted Vice President Dick Cheney--who has a gay daughter--as saying, "The fact of the matter is that we live in a free society and freedom means freedom for everybody." "You are on the wrong side of history," McGovern said to the measure's supporters. "It is wrong to take a beautiful institution like marriage and use it as an instrument of division."

Added openly gay representative Tammy Baldwin, a Democrat from Wisconsin: "Over the past year, we have seen a lively debate on marriage laws in states from Massachusetts to California and nearly every other state in between. The sky has not come crashing down despite the dire predictions. In each of these circumstances, the state courts and state legislatures have responded to bring about a public political debate and to address these issues in an orderly fashion."

President Bush earlier this year asked Congress to vote on the amendment, and Democrats contended that in complying, Republicans were motivated by election-year politics. Rep. Steny Hoyer of Maryland, the Democratic whip, accused GOP leaders of "raw political cynicism" and said they hoped to "create the fodder for a demagogic political ad."

"The only institution that this amendment is designed to protect is the Republican Party," said Dave Noble, executive director of the National Stonewall Democrats, a gay political group. "At its core it is little more than a political prank. The small minority of Democrats who could not understand that fact and who voted for this amendment do not deserve the support of our community."

Whatever the motivation of the House leadership, there was no disagreement that the amendment lacked the two-thirds majority needed to pass, just as it had in the Senate earlier this year, where it was killed on a procedural vote.

The Marriage Protection Amendment--known as the Federal Marriage Amendment until it was renamed last week--said marriage in the United States "shall consist only of a man and a woman." It also would have required that neither the U.S. Constitution nor any state constitution "shall be construed to require that marriage or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon any union other than the union of a man and a woman," a provision thought by many legal experts to outlaw civil unions and domestic partnerships.

Public polls show strong opposition to same-sex marriage, but opinion is about evenly divided regarding a federal constitutional amendment to ban it. At the same time, voters in 11 states will decide the fate of proposed amendments to their state constitutions this fall, and opponents of bans on gay marriage concede the amendments will be difficult to defeat.

Sadly, most of the state amendments will probably pass, and the issue could influence a few congressional races. But with the seemingly inevitable failure of the state amendment in Massachusetts and the polls showing that younger voters strongly favor gay marriage, the fundies have no chance of winning this issue nationally long-term.
 
The issue of gay marriage should have never been an issue. There is no reason it shouldn't be legal. Seperation of church and state. That means keep your religous beliefs to yourselves. The issue here is human rights. Homosexuality is not going away. Learn to accept and move on.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Cyan said:
Argh, get something new! This is more tired than Hey Hey Ho Ho.
:lol I had never heard the joke before and my name is steve.

I was IMing a friend and he was all "Thats so fucking old"

:lol
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
I've never understood why it is even an issue.
 
Could someone answer something for me? I'm genuinely curious and mean no disrespect to anyone's religion. I'm not religious, and I've always wondered, God made Adam and Eve, then I assume they had kids, and their kids had kids...........but how? With each other? Are we all a product of incest!?! Is this why there are so many dumbasses out there????????????
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
"Them utlra religious folk dont want the word they invented being redefined by governments."

I heat ya. I have to take an alternate route to my college cafeteria to avoid some southern conservative christians on Saturdays. You can usually know they're close when you see "It's time for you to know..." phamplets littered around the ground.
 

Lambtron

Unconfirmed Member
There's a measure on the ballot in North Dakota this year to make gay marriage illegal (as well as disallowing civil unions & other such 'marriage-like' things, including those involving heterosexuals). It's going to pass with flying colors. There was a debate recently at the public library. The group that got the measure on the ballot didn't show up, but Equality North Dakota, who is against the thing, did. They gave their presentation, and after opening up the floor to questsions, the religious zealots started in. The first question?

"Were you molsted as a child?!?!!"

Ugh. There was also the equating of gays to dogs, gays to pedophiles, assumptions that the country will fall apart if we give gay people rights (I kid you not, "like Rome & Greece"), and other nonesense. I don't want to go into all the lovely events, but this is my favorite.

13 Year Old Girl: "Gay men have the right to get married. They can get married to a woman like any normal man."
Gay Guy in the Audience: "Uh...that's not fair to the woman, you realize that?"
13 Year Old Girl: "That's what she gets for getting involved with someone like you in the first place."

Goddamn. The girl also informed a priest he needed to "learn the Bible better" because he wasn't damning homosexuals to eternal hellfire. Ugh. Fuck.

And that's why I'm moving in January.
 

Triumph

Banned
It's ultimately sad that these years will be remembered for something that will be so widely accepted in 30 or so years... it just makes us look backwards and retarded. Think about it: in 1983, 30 years ago most blacks weren't able to vote. 30 years went by, and the world didn't end.

Get over it, people.
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
The fact that the vote still gets a majority vote and is such a hotly contested issue is both disturbing and saddening.

It's human beings acting at their most pathetic.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
MetatronM said:
The fact that the vote still gets a majority vote and is such a hotly contested issue is both disturbing and saddening.

It's human beings acting at their most pathetic.
agreed.

I vowed that if this ever became an amendment that I would leave the country. And I am not even gay.
 
I was bored today and watched most of it on C-Span. It was pretty rediculous. The Republicans whole arguement revolved around "protecting" the American family. As if allowing gay marriage is going to cause everyone in the world to get a divorce, turn gay, and cause human reproduction to end. Another one of their big arguements was that children are important, and the healthiest way to raise a child is with a mother and father. Lets forget the fact that there are millions of single parents in the U.S., and divorce is rampant.

This is just the Republicans diverting voter attention, with the elections drawing near, with a bill they knew would never pass. The Republicans yet again avoid the talk of real issues that would be a better use of Congress' time. And all of the God, and faith talk spewing out of the Republicans' mouths scared me. I can't believe shit like that goes on in our government. And the Republicans have the nerve to say Liberals are trying to force their values on them.

Much like when supporting President Bush, the Republicans speaking couldn't backup their claims. Oh, so gay marriage is going to threaten and attack the American Family and marriage as we know it? How exactly? Is your family going to get divorced if two lesbians get married?
 

DJ_Tet

Banned
<Devil's Advocate here>


Doesn't this whole issue go back to Sodom and Gomorra in the Bible? Who wants to elaborate on that one? Someone here must be more versed than I in the Bible (if not, we're all going to hell, cause I know next to nothing about the Bible).
 
Short version: The cities of Sodom and Gomorra were destroyed because an evil mob (presumably men) wanted to gang rape a pair of angels (presumably males) that God had sent to the cities. God saw their wicked ways and burned them to cinders.

At least that's the story that anti-gay folks cling to as indication that homosexuality is evil in the eyes of God. The truth is that the story has been twisted by time and translations that most religions leaders agree it's a misinterpritation of the scriptures.

What they agree on is that the mob wanted to attack the angels in some way, perhaps sexually abuse them. But it's the intent of causing harm that brought God's punishment over then, not the fact that they wanted to engage in homosexual activities.

If you wanna read more about it read THIS
 

Overseer

Member
I don't believe it anyone's business to tell what a gay or lesbian can do or not do. If they want to get married then fine.

I mean, it's not something I would do, but they should do what would make them happy.


It's like the government saying: You can't eat waffles because I don't like them.
 

Diablos

Member
Did Jesus eat those waffles in the Bible? NO. THEREFORE THEY ARE UNHOLY AND SINFUL BECAUSE GOD DIDN'T SAY YOU COULD EAT THEM.
 

Overseer

Member
I know what you are saying and I don't agree with it but I don't think we should stop them.
If they will go to hell for their sins then so be it, but that is their choice.
 

Diablos

Member
Hey, that's what I say. Assuming there really is a heaven and hell that religions speak of. Either way, homosexuals should be able to do whatever they want. No need for fundamentalist loons telling them how to live.
 

KingGondo

Banned
Mega Man's Electric Sheep said:
God made Adam and Eve, then I assume they had kids, and their kids had kids...........but how? With each other? Are we all a product of incest!?! Is this why there are so many dumbasses out there????????????

Actually, Adam and Eve were super-geniuses compared to even the smartest person today. Incest might not be socially acceptable today, but I'm glad it happened that way. It all just goes to show once again--my grandpa ain't a monkey, and God hates them gays. :D
 

OmniGamer

Member
KingGondo said:
Actually, Adam and Eve were super-geniuses compared to even the smartest person today. Incest might not be socially acceptable today, but I'm glad it happened that way. It all just goes to show once again--my grandpa ain't a monkey, and God hates them gays. :D


Yeah, well someone's grandpa sure is :D

bush_monkey.jpg
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
"God created Adam and Eve; he didn't create Adam and Steve," said Rep. Roscoe Bartlett, a Maryland Republican, on behalf of a measure that supporters said was designed to protect an institution as old as civilization itself.

<sigh> Sometimes my state disappoints me....
 

Pimpwerx

Member
scola said:
agreed.

I vowed that if this ever became an amendment that I would leave the country. And I am not even gay.
Ditto. Although I'm leaving anyway. :D Things have been going kinda South lately. That said, I can't wait until someone outs Rick Santorum. Karma catches up with everyone. PEACE.
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
chimps/apes are not monkeys! That's my only beef with this thread.
 
Pimpwerx said:
Ditto. Although I'm leaving anyway. :D Things have been going kinda South lately. That said, I can't wait until someone outs Rick Santorum. Karma catches up with everyone. PEACE.

Shit, that's the problem. Everyone with any sense is abandoning ship and this country is going down the tubes! Ah well...I'm close to heading to the UK, Japan, or Canada in the next few years.
 

hooo

boooy
clipunderground said:
There is no reason it shouldn't be legal.

The reason is a simple one. The legal relation between marriage and the guardianship of children are tied at the waist. If you think it's ok for a gay couple to adopt and raise children, then you're for it. If you don't want children in the foster care system to be a psychological case study on the effects of growing up in family that features two parents of the same sex, they you don't agree with it.

Asking "Why not?" is just a sign that you haven't thought about it enough. No ones trying to pass a law banning sodomy or hot lesbian sex, they're just trying to prevent the government from recognizing any relationship as the exact same thing as a hetero relationship. Considering that a gay relationship is NOT the same thing as a straight one, I don't have a problem with there being legal differences as well. Making them the same thing is shoving a square peg in a round hole. It'll only cause everyone a headache.
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
hooo said:
Asking "Why not?" is just a sign that you haven't thought about it enough.


Or perhaps they think a gay couple raising children is just as much a non-issue. But feel free to continue to argue that life in an orphanage is better than living with a gay couple.
 

Zilch

Banned
huzkee said:
Short version: The cities of Sodom and Gomorra were destroyed because an evil mob (presumably men) wanted to gang rape a pair of angels (presumably males) that God had sent to the cities. God saw their wicked ways and burned them to cinders.

At least that's the story that anti-gay folks cling to as indication that homosexuality is evil in the eyes of God. The truth is that the story has been twisted by time and translations that most religions leaders agree it's a misinterpritation of the scriptures.

What they agree on is that the mob wanted to attack the angels in some way, perhaps sexually abuse them. But it's the intent of causing harm that brought God's punishment over then, not the fact that they wanted to engage in homosexual activities.

If you wanna read more about it read THIS

That's an absolutely ridiculous claim, and shows you know no more about the Bible than what you read on some website.
 

Overseer

Member
In the U.S. we have freedom of religion, right?

Well an aetheist can get married and don't follow the rules of god. How are gays and lesbians different?
 
Zilch said:
That's an absolutely ridiculous claim, and shows you know no more about the Bible than what you read on some website.
Enlighten us how the claim is ridiculuos.

Here's the relevant passages (illustrated!) for reference.

Edit - Sorry, misunderstood what hukzee was getting at. If the story has been altered in more contemporary versions, this is reflected in the Brick Testament. The crowd consists of men, and do want to sexually assault the male angels
 
Overseer said:
In the U.S. we have freedom of religion, right?

Well an aetheist can get married and don't follow the rules of god. How are gays and lesbians different?
Even though an atheist doesn't believe in God, he or she is still marrying someone of the opposite sex, which is not a sin in the eyes of the God he doesn't believe in, and His followers.

Of course, the atheist will still burn in hell for being an atheist. If you believe in that sort of thing. ;)
 

DarthWoo

I'm glad Grandpa porked a Chinese Muslim
@ the Bible stories...

Gotta love the part about how he's willing to let the mob rape his daughters instead, and yet he's still worthy of saving.
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
rape does not seem to be frowned upon in the bible... provided that the victim's father is compensated.
 
Spike Spiegel said:
Even though an atheist doesn't believe in God, he or she is still marrying someone of the opposite sex, which is not a sin in the eyes of the God he doesn't believe in, and His followers.

Of course, the atheist will still burn in hell for being an atheist. If you believe in that sort of thing. ;)

Well, not believing in God would be considered a sin by God himself, assuming he actually exists, right? So, should we ban aetheism? One of the Republicans' main arguements on why gay marriage should be banned was that the healthiest way to raise a child is with a mother and father. Did they forget there are millions of single parents in the U.S., and that 50% of all marriages end in divorce? Should we then also outlaw divorce, and make being pregnant out of wedlock a crime? Republicans are nothing more than bigots, who feel their "morals" and religion should be force fed to the entire U.S. population.
 

Overseer

Member
Cerebral Palsy said:
Well, not believing in God would be considered a sin by God himself, assuming he actually exists, right? So, should we ban aetheism? One of the the Republicans' main arguementon why gay marriage should be banned was that the healthiest way to raise a child is with a mother and father. Did they forget there are millions of single parents in the U.S., and that 50% of all marriaged end in divorce? Should we then also outlaw divorce, and make being pregnant out of wedlock a crime? Republicans are nothing more than bigots, who feel their "morals" and religion should be force fed to the entire U.S. population.


Exactly! Even though the government says freedom of religion, it seems to impress the beliefs of what they think is right to all the people.
 

Tsubaki

Member
http://the-nextlevel.com/board/showpost.php?p=788546&postcount=129

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I'm about to say has already been said a few times here, but it seems like a lot of people still don't "get" it.

To the OP, not liking homosexuality because that's what the Bible says, is a valid reason and one you will hear from a lot of people. If you believe that the Bible is God's revelation of his word to man, then it is more than enough reason to comdemn the practice.

Please keep in mind that there is a difference in the Christian culture and Christian religion. There's a lot of crap going on in Christian culture that keeps people away from the Christian religion. It's sad, but that's just how it is.

Christian religion is composed of two rules really -1) Love God. 2) Love people.

On one hand, although it seems like love sums up Christianity, one must not forget that love of God supercedes all. Christianity IS all about love. But not to the point where everything goes. Loving God means obeying the commands he gives out. One of which is the condemnation of homosexual practice. But keep it in perspective. Homosexuality is condemned just as lying is condemned just as adultery, cheating, greed, murder is condemned.

It is not at all hard to understand the "love the sinner, hate the sin" axiom. I have friends who do things I don't agree with. I have friends who do things I don't like. (Video game piracy for example...) But I don't automatically hate them. And I have friends who are gay. I may not agree with it, but they're still my friends.

The thing about gay marriage is, because of love of God, Christians should oppose it. The Bible clearly states that marriage is between a man and a woman. It doesn't mean we hate on homosexuals. But we are not to oppose God's law. Do I believe in equal rights for gay couples? Yes, I do. The problem is really how people have tied in the concept of marriage to legal rights. As a Christian, I must oppose homosexual marriage. But also as a Christian, I must favor equal rights for them as well. They are no less of a person than any of us. We are all sinners.

That's all I have to say on the topic. Just remember there is a big difference between the Christian culture and the Christian faith. Ghandi himself said, ""I would be a Christian if it wasn't for the Christians!" No truer words were spoken.
 
Tsubaki said:

What does any of that do with Republicans trying to make Christianity a state religion? I'm not Christian. Matter of fact, I despise religion. So why shouldn't we outlaw religion? I don't like it, much like Republicans don't like gays. That sounds like it is a good enough reason to me. I don't like it, so it shouldn't exist! That is exactly what the religous right, Republican fascists are doing. What exactly makes their opinions and beliefs better than my own? Why should our government pander to Christians because of their beliefs?
 
Spike Spiegel said:
Republicans are not trying to make Christianity the sole religion of the United States.

I never said the "sole" religion. They just want to base our laws around their religous values. Much like gays exist, other religions can also exist, as long as they don't step on the Christians' toes. Did you even see the congress session yesterday on the proposed gay marriage ban? 50% of their reasoning was based on God, their faith, and their religion. They were trying to impose their religous values on everyone by altering our Constitution. How is that not trying impose your religion on the masses? It's not like this is a rare occurrence either. Did you watch the RNC? The extent that Republicans goto to force Christianity into our government makes me ill.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom