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[Draugoth]

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Doug Cockle (Geralt Voice Actor) has spoken with Insider Gaming and shared his opinion on AI using famouses Voices:

DC: “If someone allows their voice to be recorded on this AI software and they do 400 lines and they get paid $175, well that’s a job that if I were to do it here in the UK, I would have been paid, for the same number of lines, roughly £400. There’s a huge pay discrepancy there – HUGE. And what it means is that the actor for the AI work is being paid far, far less than the actor in the studio.

I mean some people say you’re getting paid for nothing. But you’re not – you’re actually getting underpaid for everything. Then they can make you say and do whatever and it takes no artistry, it takes the actor’s artistry completely out of the equation.”

DC: “Basically, an actor does this – why would anyone ever hire the actor again? Why bother? You put your voice into this database and you have a certain amount of control, I understand, over what projects your voice can be used for and things like that, but still.”

Cockle explained that his voice is ‘already on databases’ and is being replicated online, but it’s almost impossible to police as an individual. Modders and some YouTube creators are using AI to copy his ‘Geralt voice’ for their own purposes, and whether that content is monetised or not, they’re effectively doing it without Cockle’s permission – and that voice is part of his identity. In his words, ‘Geralt is such a big part of me, I’ve been performing the role of Geralt of Rivia since 2005.’

DC: “The point is, I should be able to say whether I want my voice used in that way or not, and I just want to go to these people and say, look, fine, I’m going to use you to sell something and I’m not going to give you anything, I’m not even going to give you credit for using you. I’m going to use your face. I just get mad about this! They think that it should just be allowed and, ‘what’s the big deal, it’s just a mod,’ – no, it’s theft. It’s plain and simple theft, that’s all it is. There’s just no legislative way to combat it yet.”

 

[Sakura]

If they were using his voice without his consent for a commercial project then yeah, I agree. But in regards to fan based mods, I don't really see how it is theft.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

I get where he's coming from, but couldn't the same argument be used for reusing assets in a game to make mods? IE territory expansions and things like that using same core textures and assets available in a given game? It's just a mod. I agree there could be some grey area there when videos in particular are monetized and profit starts to work its way into the picture as a result.

 

[Kenpachii]

U get paid for work you do. AI eliminates the need for you doing work so u don't get paid.

Once u upload stuff to the internet or to a digital media u can bet people will reuse it and that's just a side effect of your job. AI now eliminates they need for you doing the work.

I get why he's upset because he feels like side lined and basically scammed out of money. But that's just how the world works.

Voice actors need to start to realize they are soon rather then later replaced entirely.

If they are smart they start pushing for new ruling where there voice needs to be licenses to be used even if its generated. But i doubt they have resources for it. And as the work is probably simplistic if they don't fall in line they will be replaced by another.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Established legacy voice actors like him have little to worry about, but the less established ones could see work dry up soon. I think that anime dubbing will probably begin implementing it sooner than games.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

It's not only theft but also immoral to use someone's voice to say things the person did not give any consent to. For example, if you have some ideological stances and they use your voice for something against that.

It's disgusting and should not be accepted regardless this is uncharted territory legal-wise.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Wouldn't it be similar to one's picture being used for promotional work for some random product without their consent?

 

[ResilientBanana]

Mods are one thing. But give the actors royalties and contractual agreements on how companies are able to use the AI generated voice. It’s either that, or just have AI make voices for games and not worry about it.

 

[diffusionx]

I agree with him.

If they were using his voice without his consent for a commercial project then yeah, I agree. But in regards to fan based mods, I don't really see how it is theft.

How can you not see it? This theoretical mod is copying a guy's voice without his permission to give it some sort of unearned and stolen legitimacy/professionalism.

 

[JayK47]

When AI came for the voice actors, nobody cared.

When AI came for the game testers, nobody cared.

Then AI came for your job and...

 

[Fake]

You know what is also theft? Voice actors thinking they have the right to change the original text from the creators in favor of their beliefs.


I just want a 100% translation to the original source and nothing more. If VA can't do this don't expect me to help you against AI.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

You know what is also theft? Voice actors thinking they have the right to change the original text from the creators in favor of their beliefs.


I just want a 100% translation to the original source and nothing more. If VA can't do this don't expect me to help you against AI.

What a bizarre, aggressive, mean spirited thing to say.

 

[Fake]

What a bizarre, aggressive, mean spirited thing to say.

As so the VA over the Twitter.

 

[rofif]

Of course it is.
Not sure anyone could disagree

 

[Represent.]

Anyone who disagrees will suddenly agree when AI comes for their job

 

[MagiusNecros]

The future of AI for voicework is just going to be a contract you sign that let's them use you voice whenever they want for whatever they want. Vocaloid software was just the beginning with willing people providing soundbytes. Now tech has evolved where AI can just duplicate your voice or anyone's very quickly and there isn't much you can do about it.

Course when it comes to modding and even worse criminals I don't think anything will stop people from using AI to further their own ends.

This is early Cyberpunk era we are heading into.

 

[StereoVsn]

Wouldn't it be similar to one's picture being used for promotional work for some random product without their consent?

Yes, and would be under same penalties. However like the VA says, it’s impossible to police for an individual.

I really feel lien we need some serious AI legislation and coordination between at least NA trade members and EU trade zone.

People are already starting to be let go and new folks aren’t being hired and we are only just over a year into the LLM shenanigans, maybe a few more for some useful ML stuff.

Our governments (especially in US) aren’t geared for this sort of job loss.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

As so the VA over the Twitter.

What?

 

[Badlucktroll]

I think AI could be beneficial. Say, David Hayter voices solid snake in a ground up metal gear solid remake. they could use ai to make him sound younger.

 

[Skifi28]

Voice actors need to start to realize they are soon rather then later replaced entirely.

You can say that about 90% of jobs that aren't manual labor (and it's not like you can't have a machine that uses AI to repalce that too), so what's the endgame?

 

[struggler_guts]

Definitely agree, the voice actors guild or w/e need to nip this in the bud NOW.

If someone is making money off your voice, should be no different than using your likeness.

 

[MagiusNecros]

You can say that about 90% of jobs that aren't manual labor (and it's not like you can't have a machine that uses AI to repalce that too), so what's the endgame?

Replace people with machines. Massive job purge if AI isn't regulated.

 

[Skifi28]

Replace people with machines. Massive job purge if AI isn't regulated.

"First they came for the voice actors, but I did not speak for I was not a voice actor."

"Then they came for the office workers, but I did not speak for I was not an officer worker."

"Then they came for the manual labourers, but there was nobody left to speak for me."


Or something along those lines. Fun times ahead, I'm grabbing my popcorn.

 

[YCoCg]

You know what is also theft? Voice actors thinking they have the right to change the original text from the creators in favor of their beliefs.


I just want a 100% translation to the original source and nothing more. If VA can't do this don't expect me to help you against AI.

How many voice actors are scripters too? It's a very niche thing, just because it happens in anime isn't an excuse to be angry at an entire industry.

 

[YCoCg]

I think AI could be beneficial. Say, David Hayter voices solid snake in a ground up metal gear solid remake. they could use ai to make him sound younger.

He can do the younger voice, he was directed to sound rougher on purpose in later games, any work he's done as Snake later on showed he can do the MGS1 style.

Besides you're being optimistic, if they could they'd just AI the entire thing and not pay anyone.

 

[LordCBH]

You know what is also theft? Voice actors thinking they have the right to change the original text from the creators in favor of their beliefs.

Typically the ones providing the voice aren’t writing the script, though you do see older voice actors transitioning to that role. Can’t wait to see AI put a lot of these localizers out of work.

 

[ReBurn]

Artists learnung what skilled labor has known for decades. Robots can take anyone's job.

 

[Fake]

What?

You don't know a thing about VA toxic behavior on Twitter, don't you?

How many voice actors are scripters too? It's a very niche thing, just because it happens in anime isn't an excuse to be angry at an entire industry.

Not all, some are. Some made changes to the scripters. Is there a problem or something? VA have the same right to complain as the users have to disagree with this department.

If AI can do the same job or even a better job, I can't see the problem. There already are much layoff in areas others than gaming and I don't get this fuzzy as many people are pushing like the end of the world.

IDK if some of you know how the real world is. There are some family members that worked into bank or even in hospital that got replaced many many times... I don't remember people complain about those kinda of layoffs.

This happens more offen than you can even imaginate. I know some of you guys just are knowing what happens in the world right now, but replacing VA with AI are equivalency to replacing human being with machines in cars factories. Is there any of you guys know at least this fact?

Typically the ones providing the voice aren’t writing the script, though you do see older voice actors transitioning to that role. Can’t wait to see AI put a lot of these localizers out of work.

Yeah. My problem is that they defend some of this pratice for no reasons, IDK man. To triggrer the fan community?

They need to know what they are fightning for and think at least first before picking up a fight with gamers or an anime comminity.

I'll defend VA that don't pick a fight with the gaming community, thats for sure.

 

[MagiusNecros]

"First they came for the voice actors, but I did not speak for I was not a voice actor."

"Then they came for the office workers, but I did not speak for I was not an officer worker."

"Then they came for the manual labourers, but there was nobody left to speak for me."


Or something along those lines. Fun times ahead, I'm grabbing my popcorn.

Maybe Wall-E will become reality. Everyone becomes fat and useless while the robots do everything. Or everyone gets grafted with a A.I. chip and you just get assigned a job and they shut your brain off while the A.I. controls your body and does the work and you switch back on once your job is over or the allotted time transpires.

Similar to being sedated and to you, you are only out for a split second even though several hours have passed. Scary thought.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

You know what is also theft? Voice actors thinking they have the right to change the original text from the creators in favor of their beliefs.


I just want a 100% translation to the original source and nothing more. If VA can't do this don't expect me to help you against AI.

Isn't improvisation part of performance?

 

[mdkirby]

It’s tricky. I work with a lot of voice actors and whilst we use ai for some of our business we don’t touch it for voice work. Partly due to quality, partly due to ethics and partly due to not pissing off all our voices. In recent years quite a few have amended contracts to explicitly prevent use of ai on their voice.

The problem is tho, not long from now the quality WILL be there (it arguably already is, but the direction and control and varied intonation is not). Tools like murf are incredibly realistic. Soon you’ll simply ask for “I want a rugged sounding Glaswegian male voice, subtly accented, aged around 60, with a whistling ‘s’s…give me 12 different examples. You pick the best, say “make it a little deeper”. Hey presto, the voice you wanted. You’ll be able to make any voice you want (and make good facsimiles of any existing voice, just by tweaking it until it sounds like them.

Then you you will end up with say 2 companies, who are competing with one another for customers. One is using ai and has way lower overheads and funnels that money into marketing. Another refuses to use ai, so has way higher overheads, and cannot afford the same marketing spend as a result. All things being equal, it puts the non ai company at a massive competitive disadvantage. This applies to all industries. It’s shit, but this is the reality we live in now.

There are use cases where ai could be great for us, we could offer users bespoke tailored content. With games, you could have LLM based NPCs with endless reactive dialogue that adapts to what you say, what you do, the events of the world, where every character can have unique ever changing lives. There’s no way to do this without ai. It would be both impossibly expensive, and literally impossible. Specific contracts would need working out for that.

One incredible thing I’ve seen is where an ai is able to take your voice and then make you speak in your voice (on video) in ANY language, so it translates what you’re saying, then has you say it in French, German etc, but still sound like YOU. It also reworks your lips so it has accurate lip sync. This is a dream scenario for dubbing of foreign shows. Again tho they really should work out some sort of contracts where it makes financial sense to do this (ie is either same price or cheaper) vs hiring some B actors to do regular dubbing work, but where the original actors feel suitably reimbursed for the repurposing of their voice.

 

[Fake]

Isn't improvisation part of performance?

Yes and I totally support. Not the same as what I mention, at the point of totally change the script or what is write in the books.

 

[Bernoulli]

Wouldn't it be similar to one's picture being used for promotional work for some random product without their consent?

More like youtubers reacting to content without paying the og creator, same for making gameplay without paying the game devs

AI creates new content I see no problem with it

 

[Codes 208]

Isn't improvisation part of performance?

Not to mention regardless of improv, its still generally scripted to fit with what the dub wants.

Take goku’s “I am!” Speech from the freeza saga in dbz for example, the original dub was so far off based from the original not because of sean schemmel’s acting but because thats how funimation wanted it to go. You cant be mad at paid voice actors for acting how they should just because of their overlord translators.

 

[Saber]

I will honestly feel bad for a few of them.
Just a friendly reminder that most of voice actors(actally alot of clowns in the game industry, includes gaming journalists) likes to be first ones on media to dogpile gamers and call them out for whatever reason.

And its not like AI, just like robots, stole alot of jobs. But its hard to feel any symphaty in a controversial era where every and each one of them wait for the right opportunity to score social points on internet by crucify gamers.

Look, if this guy is great, well I'm sure he will find a job soon. Just don't go over me appealing for pity. Theres alot of cancer stuff consumers have to deal with, being wrong for asking for a better product, being blamed by every fucking thing, etc. Its just a matter of time before people who play games gonna be blamed for this as well.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Not to mention regardless of improv, its still generally scripted to fit with what the dub wants.

Take goku’s “I am!” Speech from the freeza saga in dbz for example, the original dub was so far off based from the original not because of sean schemmel’s acting but because thats how funimation wanted it to go. You cant be mad at paid voice actors for acting how they should just because of their overlord translators.

Definitely agree. I think the key is to try to keep the "spirit" and "intention" of the writer in mind when translating. That I Am speech is a perfect example of what not to do when localizing.

I'm playing Dragon Quest X fan translation. Some of the side quests are machine translated due to how the text is stored on servers. There is a side quest where you're a judge for comedy show and you have to vote who to kick off. It was painful because humor is the #1 thing that doesn't literally translate well. That's an example of when localization is needed.

 

[SHA]

AI don't understand sexy voices, not in a million years.

 

[Moses85]

 

[BacklashWave534]

What a bizarre, aggressive, mean spirited thing to say.

He made a valid point. Voice actors have been caught inserting BS politics into their translations to push agenda thus ruining to original work. He never said all of them do it. If you consider the facts to be mean spirited and agressive i don't know what to tell you.

 

[Three]

If they were using his voice without his consent for a commercial project then yeah, I agree. But in regards to fan based mods, I don't really see how it is theft.

I agree but thinking about it beyond the surface level it would mean that free mods can make better games with no restrictions while the commercial products would have to pay for each line.

 

[Yoda]

Short off pulling off an AMA style labor control, it'll eventually replace most VA talent if the tech continues to improve at the rate it has been for the last ~year. There'll of course be exceptions, but once a few hit Anime/Video Games launch where lead characters were someone typing a prompt, it'll be game over.

 

[ByWatterson]

The market will work this out, as it has always done.

I will say, too, that these are the same people who want to get paid for work they did years ago. Imagine a home builder wanting a cut every time a house is sold or resold or rented out. Nonsense.

I know this thread isn't about residuals, but it IS about people who traditionally have overvalued their own market worth.

 

[Deerock71]

Geralt IRL looks like Rob Corddry.

 

[Paulistano]

Probably will lose his job anyway I would prefer they license the original voice actor and use his voice as base for the translation.

 

[DannyDanger]

I feel like voice actors need to get ahead of this and sign licensing contracts or something. Eventually these companies are gonna grab bob and Jane in the office and have their voices replicated. They'll save so much money, and the bob and Jane won't care about the "art" at all.

Might as well get some money out of it while you can

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I get where he's coming from, but couldn't the same argument be used for reusing assets in a game to make mods? IE territory expansions and things like that using same core textures and assets available in a given game? It's just a mod. I agree there could be some grey area there when videos in particular are monetized and profit starts to work its way into the picture as a result.

Yes, and all those mods can get C&D if the IP owners decide to pursue it. However a lot of great mods use new textures or greatly expend the functionality of the game.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

When it comes to creative types wanting to be paid for everything.

How does that relate to any non-creative type who does a job and going forward everyone at work (including after the person leaves the company) uses that person's work or improves on it? Should the guy still get paid royalties of some kind forever until it's proven nobody at the company uses his old work anymore?

Let's say a cable technician repairs some wires in a neighbourhood. Technically, no service is being provided and it's not going to fix itself. So if the guy repairs the lines it's his work. So he should get a cut of every monthly bill every house on the block gets charged for the rest of his life? All he got paid is one day's work to fix the lines.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Yes, and all those mods can get C&D if the IP owners decide to pursue it. However a lot of great mods use new textures or greatly expend the functionality of the game.

Sure, but even if using original textures/etc, could argue that the engine itself or base functionality is proprietary, I guess it's all thin ice really at the end of the day.

 

[Killer8]

 

[Brock2621]

It is…. In the same way kitchen hand dishwashers felt about their hands be replaced by dish washing machines.

There’s still a place for both, and I get there’s a difference between a computer using actual voice recording to create new sounds isn’t an exact one-to-one equivalence, but it’s similar enough situation of being unable to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

I wish AI didn’t exist, but it’s where we are now so let’s try and adapt and make the best use of it. Contracts probably need to be signed with AI in mind. Instead of charging per page, it’s per session knowing full well it will be used for AI in the future.