Ghost in the Shell |OT| I was born in the sea of information

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Einchy said:
Haven't seen the movie but it wouldn't surprise me if the ending is that
the major is actually asian and the body is just a white lady.

The way people are talking about it, it kinda seems like that has to be what happens.

And if it is the case, people are bad at talking about movies and not spoiling them.
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People are spoiling it intentionally because they have political objections to Scarlett Johansson's casting.

The same people have been trolling GITS threads for a few months. They view this as a missed opportunity for a big budget film with an asian female lead.
 
s_mirage said:
If GitS continues to underperform, Fox might be shuffling a little nervously. Alita: Battle Angel is based on a less well loved franchise, may also be hit by accusations of whitewashing, and has nearly double the budget.
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Give Robert Rodriguez 200m to make a movie is never a good idea anyway.
 
s_mirage said:
If GitS continues to underperform
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It will not, for example in China they cooperate with Weiying which even made 180 million profit for the XXX movie last month. Also they chose Scarlett because she is huge in China as well. It will make a profit, the question is only how much.

This is not Ghostbusters, not even close.
 
s_mirage said:
If GitS continues to underperform, Fox might be shuffling a little nervously. Alita: Battle Angel is based on a less well loved franchise, may also be hit by accusations of whitewashing, and has nearly double the budget.
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I don't think anybody is shocked Robert Rodriguez Hispanic-ified a story.
 
I saw it. Overall I thought it was all right, but terribly written.

I felt like I'd made a mistake and was wasting my time in the first 10 minutes (the repetition of 'your mind...your soul, your "ghost" is a pretty good indicator this movie is gonna be written like the audience is dumb, and it was), but over the course of the movie I started enjoying it more.

The main thing was that the movie had no point to make. The most they could summon up was something about 'our memories don't define us, what we do defines us', which is pretty much boilerplate action adventure sentimentality when they don't actually have anything to say. They could have dug down and slipped in something more interesting without making the movie less accessible, but I guess they were satisfied with that. I wasn't so when the movie ended my first thought was that they had nothing interesting to say.

I liked Scarlett Johansson in it, but I like her in everything so that wasn't a surprise.
 
Trokil said:
It will not, for example in China they cooperate with Weiying which even made 180 million profit for the XXX movie last month. Also they chose Scarlett because she is huge in China as well. It will make a profit, the question is only how much.

This is not Ghostbusters, not even close.
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Is she though? Lucy only made 44 million in China, and Vin Diesel is far more popular in Asia due to the F&F franchise. Plus American studios see far less return from foreign box office than they do domestic, especially China.
 
Zero315 said:
Is she though? Lucy only made 44 million in China, and Vin Diesel is far more popular in Asia due to the F&F franchise. Plus American studios see far less return from foreign box office than they do domestic, especially China.
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It probably will make money for the 2 Chinese companies. Although GitS property is not popular in China at all.
 
Tom_Cody said:
People are spoiling it intentionally because they have political objections to Scarlett Johansson's casting.

The same people have been trolling GITS threads for a few months. They view this as a missed opportunity for a big budget film with an asian female lead.
Click to expand...

god forbid people prioritize having a larger discussion about how a movie mishandles race for an underrepresented group in Hollywood over something REALLY important like spoilers, right?

spoiler phobia i fucking swear
 
I just got back from seeing it. I'm actually pleasantly surprised. It was not bad at all. There was a bit of a lull in the middle that took some people completely out of the movie (a few even left our showing), but I found it entertaining and intriguing throughout. I'm a huge fan of the original anime too.

Pros:

- Batou and Aramaki were great, and stole the show for me. I loved the dynamic between Batou and the Major.
- Visuals were good, not great. Lots of eye-candy and cyberpunk aesthetics
- Good soundtrack.
- Story was interesting and engaging
- The look of the major was pretty spot on
- Geisha robots looked awesome

Cons:

- Scarlett Johansson was not good in this at all. The Major never sounded as lifeless and robotic in the anime as she does in this.
- While the story was pretty good, there was a largely empty section in the middle that really took me out of the movie
- The way the movie
revealed the Major as originally being a Japanese runaway girl, her name as being Mokoto Kusinagi, and explaining the literal whitewashing of the character in and out of the movie was a stretch and kind of bullshit.

7/10
 
Okay, so my thoughts on this. Very, very minor spoilers within.

It was a cool and dramatic cyperpunk movie. It wears the Ghost in the Shell franchise like an awkwardly fitting shirt. Some sections fit better than others. As kind of expected they turned what was more of a haunting intellectual film into more of a dramatic character arc. I honestly can't say whether the twist is a good thing or not myself, but people spoiled it without spoiling it so much that I saw it coming a mile away. I'm not even sure if I had the chance to have a strong opinion because of that.

I think on some level, it's not really a bad film for what it is, but what it is isn't exactly Ghost in the Shell. It's constantly explaining itself to the audience, not just in the way it constantly bangs on about what "Ghost in the Shell" means, but other minor details like their wireless comms and such. Characters speak for the benefit of the audience rather than what makes sense in that moment. These are the kinds of things that Ghost in the Shell just normally does not do. But occasionally a really good moment comes through, like the scene with the prostitute. So it's not as if the movie is totally brainless.

Overall, I can't be too mad at the movie. Maybe this live-action adaptation can get people not familiar with the franchise to give it a chance. More attention to Ghost in the Shell can't be a bad thing. It might be a low point for the franchise but I'm not insulted or offended at its existence.
 
I lost it when the movie started with the title displayed then said "We built you a shell and put your ghost innit".
And then repeated that 3 or 4 times throughout the movie.

The best I could say about the movie is that it's not particularly bad. It's just bland and forgettable.
 
Just got home.

The movie was a solid 6/10, not great but nothing terrible either. I really don't think this movie is going to play well with general audiences, though. This felt like a small indie movie with a huge budget, where a lot of scenes in the movie are super lowkey and slow, rather than quick and bombastic like a blockbuster. it did get a little boring here and there, though.

The visuals are downright gorgeous, it's totally worth seeing the movie just for those, and more so if you're a fan of cyberpunk.
Doctor Decimate said:
god forbid people prioritize having a larger discussion about how a movie mishandles race for an underrepresented group in Hollywood over something REALLY important like spoilers, right?

spoiler phobia i fucking swear
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How's it spoiler phobia when you're saying people are spoilering it? You can do both without openly spoiling the movie.
 
Magus1234 said:
Great now Asians gonna claim we taking their jobs too
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I don't see an issue with a Alita being cast as a Hispanic. Seems a bit unfair to jump the gun and say that. I don't know if there'll be others who'll go ahead and claim it's whitewashed or whatever though.
 
Just saw this. Overall, I feel this was an average movie. It could have been better, but for waste some time, it is quite enjoyable. It is also good to see some cyberpunk goodness on the big screen.
 
Five thoughts about the new movie:

1: I didn't know much about the controversy going into the movie. I knew people didn't like that Johansson as the lead, but from what I gathered ahead of time, it felt like it was mostly nerds/losers online complaining that she didn't look exactly like the anime drawings, or similarly to the early backlash Fassbender got for playing Jobs because he didn't look anything like him in real life. After now seeing the movie and reading about the controversy, I know that's not accurate. That said, I really liked her performance, which was a hair too professional and mechanical, and I felt it fit in well with the story. I really think Johansson's best asset as an actress is her body, and she really put it to use in there posture and walk and mannerisms. In fact, I liked almost the entire cast, and I appreciated that it was diverse. A small nitpick, I wish Binoche was older considering her character in the film, and I just can't stand Michael Pitt as an actor, so he bothered me. If there's one major criticism I have with the cast, it is that I wish I saw more of the team and ancillary characters.

2: Not being familiar to the source material, I wonder if my complaints stem from it or this version. This movie felt stuffed. There's way too much going on at all times that left little breathing room and introspection from the characters. That, and its themes, even back in the mid 90s, really aren't that avant-garde so I wish it did a little more in that respect. Now knowing and reading more about the controversy regarding the casting, I understand the complaints, but I kind of like the twist in this movie regarding Johansson's character and felt it added/muddied some of the philosophical questions. Or, maybe I'm giving the director and writers too much credit. One of the things I hate about anime film that I've seen is that they over-explain their themes, and I'd guess that comes through in this movie with the GHOST of her human self is trapped in the SHELL of a robot; a lot of that in the movie felt clunky.

3: I really liked the production of the movie. From the score to the designs, I felt like everything worked (for the most part... the ending "boss battle" looked bad, as did some of the CGI body work). It felt like someone took the bombast of The Fifth Element and tried to make it believable. Heck, I loved that the head of the group spoke Japanese and they had fun with the translations/subtitles. Edit: I'll add a bit to this since I've read a little more response and someone said the film is very Japanese (minus Johansson). I disagree. This felt like a conglomerate, multinational futurescape to me. There's a French woman, an American, a Japanese boss, vague Europeans (doing "American" accents) and others. It reminded me somewhat of Big Hero Six's setting, except less so. And, unless I missed something, the movie didn't say where it took place, and the names of businesses and companies are somewhat of a hodgepodge; again, like The Fifth Element.

4: I'm tired of prolonged action scenes in movies. I recently watched Captain America: Civil War for the first time and I got so bored during the long airport battle. Same goes for the two major set-pieces in Logan that go on and on without much nuance or evolution. It's frustrating that so many of these types of movie feel the need to have good guy and bad guy punch for thirty minutes without any cleverness or thoughtfulness. I appreciated greatly that this movie's fight scenes were brief, and even though the last sequence is a mess visually and qualitatively, I'm glad it didn't go on and on and on.

5: I understand that fans of the original would probably never be satisfied with this movie, but all I can say is that since I mildly enjoyed it (a great way to spend a dreary overcast morning), I'm thinking of looking up the original anime film, and that's something I would not be thinking of before I saw this.
 
I have to admit that I was never a fan of the original anime. It wasn't until SAC that I started liking the story.

This film is...complicated for me from many POV. In some ways, I appreciate what it's trying to do. It looks visually arresting, the world is interesting and I feel that had it been approached from a different angle, it would have been great. But it also came with the problem of the representation and the tired plotline.

To be honest, I'm not sure how to lessen the impact of SJ being cast as the Major. Well, not precisely. They could just streamlined the setting and made it more western, maybe? Or if they want to keep the setting, just call her as "The Major" without any reference to Motoko and just mentioned that Section 9 is an international agency operating in Japan? I don't know. There's no easy way out of the awkwardness of the premise.

If they had cast an Asian actress, however, this would have been a great story. The setting and situation already lend itself to that. As it is now, the film went to it half-assed. There's a fantastic shelling sequence but it wasn't accompanied by the fantastic soundtrack. It feels like the producer didn't want the film to feel too Japanese. But I think it's too late for that train. Everything in the film bar SJ feels uniquely Japanese. That's the vibe they wanted and that's what they created so why not go the whole way?

The plot is a bit been there, done that. There's a shade of DE: Human Revolution in some parts of it and its main plot teether between interesting idea and plain awkwardness. All in all, I just feel that it's a shame that a visually arresting film like this is saddled with controversy which wouldn't have happened if they had done it right and also had come up with a better script.
 
brianmcdoogle said:
2: Not being familiar to the source material, I wonder if my complaints stem from it or this version. This movie felt stuffed. There's way too much going on at all times that left little breathing room and introspection from the characters. That, and its themes, even back in the mid 90s, really aren't that avant-garde so I wish it did a little more in that respect. Now knowing and reading more about the controversy regarding the casting, I understand the complaints, but I kind of like the twist in this movie regarding Johansson's character and felt it added/muddied some of the philosophical questions. Or, maybe I'm giving the director and writers too much credit. One of the things I hate about anime film that I've seen is that they over-explain their themes, and I'd guess that comes through in this movie with the GHOST of her human self is trapped in the SHELL of a robot; a lot of that in the movie felt clunky.
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These are all problems with this film that don't really exist in the source material and why it has a low RT rating.

Replicant said:
If they had cast an Asian actress, however, this would have been a great story. The setting and situation already lend itself to that. As it is now, the film went to it half-assed. There's a fantastic shelling sequence but it wasn't accompanied by the fantastic soundtrack. It feels like the producer didn't want the film to feel too Japanese. But I think it's too late for that train. Everything in the film bar SJ feels uniquely Japanese. That's the vibe they wanted and that's what they created so why not go the whole way?

The plot is a bit been there, done that. There's a shade of DE: Human Revolution in some parts of it and its main plot teether between interesting idea and plain awkwardness. All in all, I just feel that it's a shame that a visually arresting film like this is saddled with controversy which wouldn't have happened if they had done it right and also had come up with a better script.
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It still wouldn't have been very good with an Asian actress, that's not really the problem in regards to the quality of the film. But at least they wouldn't have reignited the debate with her being an Asian who got shelled and came out white.

The problem is that they removed the majority of the interesting philosophical and existential ponderings of the source material. The small amounts of it that's left in is mostly plodding and heavy-handed exposition about Ghosts and Shells that audiences should've been able to extrapolate from the story. What we're left with is the "been there, done that" plot that's super generic as far as sci-fi goes.
 
i give it a 4/5. i really enjoyed it even though the basic plot was a bit of a retread of normal action movies.

visually it was cool, i enjoyed Scarlett and the guy who was Batou. they were my favorite part, how their relationship played out on screen.

i didn't really care much about the "whitewashing" going on -- them bringing up the original name of the character and how she was transplanted is, i think, maybe unintentionally clever/meta. however, from that other thread it just pissed more people off.

the action was so-so, wasn't too exciting but everything was visually sooooo cool. i hope they make a sequel.
 
Lol the thing they did was pure bull, movie didnt do anything for me. Aside from the visus almost everyting i didnt enjoy.

Scarjo as major was just one big disconnect throughout the whole movie.
 
Not to rant but to rant, but Ghost in the Shell was a travesty, even when not beholden to the source material, but esp. when beholden to the source material. Subtext becomes BOLD ALL CAPS TEXT, and there's no sinew between scenes and action among the audience surrogate lines and ramrodded exposition.
The city is a character, you hear that, but even here the 'acting is wooden' with Sid Mead wanna be landscape shots.
Characterization is bland. for one character is "I have a cyber liver" and shoots a sniper rifle after you forgot about him. Another opens a window and has an accent. You don't see her when she opens the window.
Also please invite me into your apartment and tell me about your dead child if I see your cat in the hall.
There are echoes of Man of Steel in how abhorrent the plot points are connected.
The call back to scenes to the animated film oscillate between nostalgic (the major's arms) and pathetic (the garbage man)
At least there's a few seconds of the crazy typing fingers.
Sorry. First movie I've seen in a theater in almost a year I think (still haven't seen rogue one) and barf. I'm ok with changing things but this is just not good.
 
Enjoyed it. Thought it was a solid B. Arise is absouletly the worst incarnation of GITS and this was better than that. Thought the casting of Section 9 was very on point. Granted Togusa, Ishikawa, an Saito only got small moments but they worked and IMO would work in a sequel that's never getting made.

Rolling the end of 2nd gig into what is essentially a shell (lol) of the first movie worked fine for me.
 
I think my main complaint about this movie is that there's too much visual distractions happening on screen everywhere. The original ghost in the shell depicted such busy city without going all out crazy with visuals, which suggests to me the director or director of photography knows better on where they want the audience to focus on in each shot. This movie, on the other hand, seems to have lost that focus and instead chose to bombard us with tons of visual that become more distracting than anything else. Not saying the visual itself are badly done, but there's a clear lack of visual focus in this film because of its usage.
 
I liked the atmosphere and visuals (gorgeous set work) the movie gave. Scarlett did a decent job and most of the acting was good. Considering the topic though, it ironically feels like it is struggling from an identity crisis. Everything seems to swing from one place to the next. I'd probably give it a solid 7. I didn't think it was as bad as the critics. Probably better than Lucy too. Nowhere near as good as the original Ghost in the Shell but was anyone expecting that?
 
I definitely enjoyed the movie more than I expected. Went with some friends and it got them interested in seeing the original ghost in the Shell.

So I say it was a good movie outing.
 
I really liked this film. 4/5.

Visually it is spectacular, a lot of the casting is very well done and there is some really good acting.

The only point that fails it for is the dialogue. At times it feels like actors are struggling with this clunky dialogue. This is really obvious at the beginning of the film.

I haven't seen the original in a long time, so I might go back to it now and compare the two.
 
Really liked the movie.

Would maybe give it a 8/10 and its the best live action anime adaption what comes to my mind.

I liked that its not a one to one adaption. The twist makes sense and people just want to be offended if theres a possibility at this point imo.

Also i did the crazy thing to watch the movie for entertainment.
 
I think I finally figured out my main gripe with the movie. It's not the story, or the whitewashing, it's that the Major in the movie is not the Major from the GITS series.

In every other iteration she shares a number of traits that make up her core characterization. First, she's highly skilled at what she does. Her character has always exuded confidence in her knowledge and experience. She is able to assess the most complex of situations and either give out orders or delegate to the various Section 9 members. While they might think she's sometimes a pain in the ass, it's very obvious she commands a lot of respect from all of them, and whenever she asserts her chain of command, it's obeyed.

Second she's thoughtful and reflective. I think most people aren't accurately remembering how she was in the original movie, and I'd strongly urge anyone who thought she was "robotic" or monotone to rewatch it. The Major has a very clear personality, however it's her face that is largely unchanging. This was no doubt done intentionally to emphasize the dichotomy between her thinking, feeling, emotive human side with her cold, mostly expressionless cyborg side. Despite this you could still get a sense from what she was thinking and feeling even without her saying it out loud. A good example is when she's on the ferry and catches another person with the exact same body as hers.

Scarlett Johansson's "Major" was the exact opposite. Nothing about her displayed any sort of competence at what she did. In fact, for any Gundam fans, I would consider traditional Major Char's Counterattack Amuro, while GITS 17 Major the equivalent of early Mobile Suit Gundam Amuro. She got by by virtue of having a more advanced body than everything else. She seemed less the commanding officer of the team and more like someone they had to babysit. She blatantly ignored orders for seemingly no reason, and with Aramaki just shrugging his shoulders, and couldn't lead the team for shit.

While the old Major was reflective, this Major seemed more confused and curious about everything, like a toddler would be. She didn't really seem to understand what was going on or what she was seeing. The scene with the freckled black woman amounted to absolutely nothing.

This movie got her character completely wrong, which is a shame because she is one of my favorite anime characters, and pretty much my favorite fictional female character
 
UnemployedVillain said:
...
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Yeah, she didn't seem to know what she was doing. Maybe that's why she wasn't really a major, but they just called her that as a codename. Johansson was robotic and there was no way to see past that to her contemplative side, she didn't have one. The hooker scene was a poor attempt to demonstrate she was confused about humanity.
 
UnemployedVillain said:
I think I finally figured out my main gripe with the movie. It's not the story, or the whitewashing, it's that the Major in the movie is not the Major from the GITS series.

In every other iteration she shares a number of traits that make up her core characterization. First, she's highly skilled at what she does. Her character has always exuded confidence in her knowledge and experience. She is able to assess the most complex of situations and either give out orders or delegate to the various Section 9 members. While they might think she's sometimes a pain in the ass, it's very obvious she commands a lot of respect from all of them, and whenever she asserts her chain of command, it's obeyed.

Second she's thoughtful and reflective. I think most people aren't accurately remembering how she was in the original movie, and I'd strongly urge anyone who thought she was "robotic" or monotone to rewatch it. The Major has a very clear personality, however it's her face that is largely unchanging. This was no doubt done intentionally to emphasize the dichotomy between her thinking, feeling, emotive human side with her cold, mostly expressionless cyborg side. Despite this you could still get a sense from what she was thinking and feeling even without her saying it out loud. A good example is when she's on the ferry and catches another person with the exact same body as hers.

Scarlett Johansson's "Major" was the exact opposite. Nothing about her displayed any sort of competence at what she did. In fact, for any Gundam fans, I would consider traditional Major Char's Counterattack Amuro, while GITS 17 Major the equivalent of early Mobile Suit Gundam Amuro. She got by by virtue of having a more advanced body than everything else. She seemed less the commanding officer of the team and more like someone they had to babysit. She blatantly ignored orders for seemingly no reason, and with Aramaki just shrugging his shoulders, and couldn't lead the team for shit.

While the old Major was reflective, this Major seemed more confused and curious about everything, like a toddler would be. She didn't really seem to understand what was going on or what she was seeing. The scene with the freckled black woman amounted to absolutely nothing.

This movie got her character completely wrong, which is a shame because she is one of my favorite anime characters, and pretty much my favorite fictional female character
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that's exactly what i felt from the trailers, just from her way of moving and her facial expression, and some dialogue (sure it's a stretch, but i was right in the end), thanks for confirming it, even more reason to not watch it, i'll be fine without it!
 
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