http://www.recode.net/2016/6/10/11904004/google-obama-tpp
Google said:
https://publicpolicy.googleblog.com/2016/06/the-trans-pacific-partnership-step.html
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Google endorses the Trans-Pacific Partnership
- Thread starter Guevara
- Start date
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https://publicpolicy.googleblog.com/2016/06/the-trans-pacific-partnership-step.html
Push for greater transparency if old
Spring Drive
Banned
What does this mean for our privacy?
what's privacy?
Dirtyshubb
Member
Obligatory don't be evil comment 
We are only allowed Incognito browsing now.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
Of course. Google is a business first and foremost. Not surprising, but still disgusting.
*sotto*"it won't help"*wind*
andythinkpad
Member
Google show its hands.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
that China money is needed
Ironically, TPP is a trade agreement that aims to curtail growing Chinese influence within the region.
As a Candian I have yet to see how this deal doesn't fuck us good. When you've got countries like Malaysia fighting, demanding, and then getting more favourable terms, it makes you wonder what exactly your old Prime Minister was doing when he capitulated on so much.
TatteredHat
Member
It should come to nobody's surprise that an enormous multinational company like Google would endorse TPP.
Fuck off Google.
Fuck off Google.
borborygmus
Member
Outdoor Miner
Member
TPP is bad because reasons. No one tries to research the TPP but everyone has an opinion.
You know all those dystopian sci-fi novels where corporations have become governments? This is basically a trade partnership that starts giving those sorts of powers to multinational corporations. Like the idea of corporations having the right to sue governments for lost profits if they shoot down business proposals of multinationals? Cause that is one provision of the TPP.
On top of a bunch of crazy copyright issues and forcing western prescription drug prices onto third world countries and a whole bunch of other nefarious crap that was negotiated in intense secrecy away from any dissenters. TPP is a nightmare.
But corporations are individuals.
Giant Panda
Member
That's brave considering all the disinformation on the internet about the TPP.
JesseEwiak
Member
TPP is a horrible nightmare if you only read posts on Reddit or listen to ardent anti-free trade advocates about it. I don't particularly like the TPP, but the IDS function ("the governments can be sued by corporations" part) is highly overhyped as what it basically says is governments can't have different laws for foreign companies than domestic companies - ie. you can still have government provided health care, you can't give better deals to in-nation companies.
Yes, corporations can still attempt to sue nations for whatever, but there's no guarantee they'll actually win.
The issues about access to generic drugs is a little more controversial (basically, it extends exclusivity for patents on drugs to all countries within the TPP to 12 years), but it's "exporting western drug prescription prices", it's limiting the amount of time a patent is needed for and obviously, smart pharma companies aren't going to price a drug the same amount in Vietnam than in the US.
Is the TPP a good deal? I'm on Krugman's side, where he basically gives it a big 'meh'. But it's not the end of the world, no matter what Reddit or Bernie Sanders says.
Orbis Tabula
Member
Oh, they'll fix that. Haven't you heard? Google is cheating the election. Soon, through the power of autocomplete, we'll all love TPP.
Omegasquash
Member
Sort of. Google still holds onto it, where Alphabet, of which Google is now a subsidiary, does not.
Google can finally sue countries that want to protect their citizens.
China is not a part of the TPP.
Although I'm sure Trump would love to retweet you, facts be damned.
That's good, since there are no EU countries involved with the TPP treaty
Edit: I guess free trade to the left is like climate change to the right. They don't know what they are talking about, but they are MAD about it.
BannedEpisode
Member
It's an agreement between countries that allows for products produced within the agreeing countries to pass borders without the importer paying duties.
This can allow for companies to import goods and raw materials for much cheaper than they could previously. It can help companies penetrate new marketplaces. It can sometimes also hurt local businesses that can no longer compete with imported products from cheaper countries.
There are other stipulations within the agreement related to international copyrights and worker exchanges but the particulars are not completely fleshed out yet.
There are a lot of unfounded conspiracy theories as well, hence the knee jerk opinions. There are real concerns with any free trade agreement. Speaking of which, people need to be aware that this is not a new thing. America is involved in numerous free trade agreements around the world, which range from very beneficial on an economic level (those duty mitigations) to downright exploitative.
My point is through all of this though: be interested/invested in TPP but don't freak out about it.
Source: I'm a Free Trade Analyst for a very large industrial company.
Edit: I almost forgot about the ability to sue nations for business purposes. This is because the amount of red tape and bullshit required makes this almost never ever happen. Hell the last major FTA related case I can think of was a major automaker that was sued by the governments of Canada/Mexico for not doing its due diligence with its free trade qualifications. It was $$$$.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Disappointing but expectation. Just a cog in the machine.
titiklabingapat
Member
Globalization and Free Trade Agreements are not always bad.In fact, they have resulted in hundreds of millions of people being uplifted from extreme poverty, more thanany other tool we have as a species. The anti-globalization faction from the left concerns me. It is anti-objectivity and it has tinges of jingoistic nationalism too.
Don't be fooled by the unnecessary scaremongering from reddit.
Don't be fooled by the unnecessary scaremongering from reddit.
Acidote
Member
Confused it with the TTIP, Google has been silent about it when other companies have been more transparent in their answer.
BannedEpisode
Member
As mentioned above, I work with Free Trade for a living.
I'm definitely liberal on the political spectrum and I have some misgivings about some aspects of free tree. With that said though, there are some truly sweeping and unfounded generalizations about free trade.
So, clearly biased.
Anyway, these partnerships are being discussed in secrecy and what is known so far isn't good for the general populace. It covers tons of different points and is huge, so it is best explained by an expert of a neutral party.
BannedEpisode
Member
The parts I'm talking about: Duty mitigations and how they are achieved are already out there and free to read pending changes. They are negotiated so that certain countries are benefitted and others are protected based on their economy and how the import/export of resources into other nations would affect them.
The parts you are talking about: shadowy cabals negotiating their slice of the global pie are silly. Yes there are going to be pro business choices made at the government level in an attempt to protect copyrights and intellectual property too. I don't ethically agree with all of it.
Also lol at me being biased. Biased for what? People have a foundationally incorrect understanding about what the core function of free trade agreements are.
Orbis Tabula
Member
An expert it what, though? I mean, if someone who works in free trade is biased, it can't be a free trade expert.
titiklabingapat
Member
The statistics about poverty reduction aren't biased though. Free trade has done more for getting more people into the middle class than any other treaties and agreements in the history of the world.
TPP and TTIP are nowhere near as bad as many people are claiming. There tends to be a lot of hysteria surrounding these sorts of free trade agreements but in the end they do actually promote greater economic growth and more investment opportunities. Anything which breaks down barriers between countries is a good thing IMO.
BannedEpisode
Member
So, as I said, the biggest benefit of this agreement is by far the duty elimination for members of the agreement.
Origination is determined through specific rules laid out here: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/TPP-Final-Text-Annex-3-A-Product-Specific-Rules.pdf (it's all based on the harmonized tariff schedule so unless you are familiar with coding for materials it won't make a bunch of sense, but trust me when I say that it's simpler than most already established agreements).
I can guarantee that these rulesets took a bulk of the negotiation time while this agreement was being established as it is the most direct source of savings and economic potential for TPP countries.
But anyway, the real concern should be on how these duty eliminations will affect non first world countries. Not perceived secret meetings about Mickey Mouse.
Origination is determined through specific rules laid out here: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/TPP-Final-Text-Annex-3-A-Product-Specific-Rules.pdf (it's all based on the harmonized tariff schedule so unless you are familiar with coding for materials it won't make a bunch of sense, but trust me when I say that it's simpler than most already established agreements).
I can guarantee that these rulesets took a bulk of the negotiation time while this agreement was being established as it is the most direct source of savings and economic potential for TPP countries.
But anyway, the real concern should be on how these duty eliminations will affect non first world countries. Not perceived secret meetings about Mickey Mouse.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
of course they would
LizardKing
Member
But where is the question. Because it sure as hell isn't in the US. You must not have watched FTAs ravage certain segments of this country. Sure, Mexico improved, much by taking jobs from Americans.
Doesn't logic tell you that business will want to produce for as cheaply as possible, and sell for as much as possible. It's inevitable with free trade that business will take away higher paying jobs and provide lower paying ones, just in countries where that is considered more middle class.
I get the distinct impression a lot of anti-free-trade proponents fail to understand the causality of many of the world's problems. People keep attacking the symptoms, rather than putting their attention towards root causes (like, you know, capitalism itself).
It's particularly noticeable when folks talk about "lost jobs", not understanding that technological unemployment is an inevitability and one that will only increase over the coming decades.
Stuff like the TPP is largely irrelevant when it comes to the big picture. Just a little bump on the road, nothing more. But good luck getting people to see that.
Eventually, those lower-class areas will be developed as well, and eventually corporations will run out of cheap labor to exploit, making all of this moot.
Then they just switch to machine automation entirely, and then everyone can complain about unemployment equally!
It's particularly noticeable when folks talk about "lost jobs", not understanding that technological unemployment is an inevitability and one that will only increase over the coming decades.
Stuff like the TPP is largely irrelevant when it comes to the big picture. Just a little bump on the road, nothing more. But good luck getting people to see that.
Case in point.
Eventually, those lower-class areas will be developed as well, and eventually corporations will run out of cheap labor to exploit, making all of this moot.
Then they just switch to machine automation entirely, and then everyone can complain about unemployment equally!
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