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Gran Turismo 6 |OT| Moon Rover The Castle
- Thread starter Mobius 1
- Start date
drugstore_cowboy
Member
I don't care Logitech confirmed the other day that they aren't working on adding PS4 support for their wheels, and that they won't work with PS4 software. Next gen GT and the PS4 are dead to me, Sony fucked up.
Where's my Course Maker, F1 cars and motorbikes?
Did they give any reasons for not supporting PS4?
I was under the impression all that was needed was a driver and some licensing fees.
Crisis averted (for now). My post on GT Planet:
In reference to your comment about flattening torque curves - I would also suggest this is the reason they have considered locking the power limiter. But the PP system is bollocks anyway so trying to achieve parity through disabling this feature is misguided.
To get good parity then you need to give lobby hosts the ability to define a specific set of eligible cars and set individual PP levels for each. Only though rigorous community testing can PP parity be achieved.
Dzidza1978
Member
I don't care Logitech confirmed the other day that they aren't working on adding PS4 support for their wheels, and that they won't work with PS4 software. Next gen GT and the PS4 are dead to me, Sony fucked up.
Where's my Course Maker, F1 cars and motorbikes?
Do you have any link?
I have fanatec and it's heavily dependent on logitech drivers, to be supported on PS4.
thx.
Ted
Member
This, oh so this. And if they combine it with a proper selection of loaner vehicles that would be even better.
Disc or digital?
It worked fine for me and I was actually rather impressed with the comprehensive nature of the data presented. I spent a good few minutes examining the braking and acceleration curves and gear change indicators comparing rutty's awesome seasonal times against my somewhat less awesome ones!
It depressed me. : )
I don't care Logitech confirmed the other day that they aren't working on adding PS4 support for their wheels, and that they won't work with PS4 software. Next gen GT and the PS4 are dead to me, Sony fucked up.
Where's my Course Maker, F1 cars and motorbikes?
keep faith, in kaz we trust
If I hear for one more time that Polyphony does not listen to you personally MGR, I will ask for your permaban from the internetz
Last Update: 08/04/2014- Gran Turismo 6 HotFixes - GT6 Updates
The following issue has been addressed:
- An issue wherein the value of the [Power Limiter] in the "Car Settings" cannot be modified when the [Vehicle Tuning] option within the [Event Settings] screen of the Open Lobby is set to [Prohibited].
http://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/news/00_3015268.html
Where?
IISANDERII
Member
There's only 1 new seasonal. I like that if they're going to spread them out over a broader time.
And it seems much easier than the previous round of seasonals, I beat it easily on the first lap whereas the others took me 30min or more.
And it seems much easier than the previous round of seasonals, I beat it easily on the first lap whereas the others took me 30min or more.
Had a little look at the data logger yesterday. Interesting as a curiosity, but I really don't see how it can help people improve, perhaps someone could do a little guide in its use?
One thing I noticed comparing my non-ABS lap to Ted's ABS one is that I tend to brake earlier and release pressure more gradually (I also slightly 'pulse' my braking without even realising it), whereas ABS allows you to just slam the brake to full on, then full off when you're finished.
I also shat myself a bit when I noticed accelerator spikes in places I knew I wasn't accelerating, thought my pedals were dying! Then I realised it was when I changed gear and the game was rev matching...
Had a look at the visualiser, got a screen I couldn't get past asking me to insert a USB with data on it. Thinking about it, will we ever see what's past that screen? I don't think anyone who is likely to post shots in a forum will ever have the opportunity.
One thing I noticed comparing my non-ABS lap to Ted's ABS one is that I tend to brake earlier and release pressure more gradually (I also slightly 'pulse' my braking without even realising it), whereas ABS allows you to just slam the brake to full on, then full off when you're finished.
I also shat myself a bit when I noticed accelerator spikes in places I knew I wasn't accelerating, thought my pedals were dying! Then I realised it was when I changed gear and the game was rev matching...
Had a look at the visualiser, got a screen I couldn't get past asking me to insert a USB with data on it. Thinking about it, will we ever see what's past that screen? I don't think anyone who is likely to post shots in a forum will ever have the opportunity.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
It was mentioned here but the thread has been deleted so it must've have been BS
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/bad-news-for-logitech-wheel-owners-regarding-ps4.306277/
The dream is still alive!
Looks like we're getting two vehicles that Senna used in the next update, two slots have been added in patch 1.06 for Ayrton Senna in the dealership list.
So two more shitty go karts.
GT Academy 2014 cars were also in the patch
So, Ayrton Senna get "his own" slot in the dealerships? How do you know those are karts? Cars are not in yet, I suppose?
Also, which GTACC14 cars have been added besides that 370Z?
Thanx in advance from GTS community
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
I'm not sure, there's just two new entries: ayrton_senna...ayrton_senna, other than the racing suit there is no more stuff about Senna.
The other GT Academy car is the Leaf G
BMW Vision inbound, it's right below the 1.06 update:
So it's coming before or with the Senna update in a few weeks...
The other GT Academy car is the Leaf G
BMW Vision inbound, it's right below the 1.06 update:
So it's coming before or with the Senna update in a few weeks...
Gouda Jouji
Member
The GT Academy cars have always bothered me, PD should at least skin them to look like they do in real life.
BADNED
Member
Well it's quite possibel the BMW Vision drops next week. Currently there is some info circulating in the industry that BMW has something special for the New York Auto Show which actually starts next Friday, April 18th. Since BMW's NY lineup is pretty much known by now the rumored surprise could be indeed the Vision. Time will tell.
I was trying the Subaru STi seasonal tonight and was 14 seconds slower than ruttyboy. Now I know I'm slow but not that bad.
Loaded up the top time replay and on the steep hill after the slowest left/right corner where I was in second he got to fifth gear. Thinking what the hell.
Then checked and realized the seasonals have a PP limit higher than my car is currently set to
I did not know you could tune your car to the PP limit on seasonals. I thought they had to be completely stock! That explains why I've been scraping bronze times the last few months and stopped playing that part of the game...
Time to get some silvers and feel good about it!
Loaded up the top time replay and on the steep hill after the slowest left/right corner where I was in second he got to fifth gear. Thinking what the hell.
Then checked and realized the seasonals have a PP limit higher than my car is currently set to
I did not know you could tune your car to the PP limit on seasonals. I thought they had to be completely stock! That explains why I've been scraping bronze times the last few months and stopped playing that part of the game...
Time to get some silvers and feel good about it!
Amazing. Less than 24 hours to fix.
Pit stop bug? 4 months and counting.
Game is riddled with stupid bugs (Surround sound audio glitches, Alpine A110 dash lights don't work, no tyre smoke in Nurb GP/D free run mode, etc) but they're not the end of the world because they are superficial or there's a work-around (eg using 2-ch stereo instead of surround sound)
The core gameplay is about competing against the clock and other drivers. Any bug that messes with timing or physics is a game breaking flaw.
It is absolutely infuriating that they spend so much time and effort to implement a pit stop system, only to have it completely ignored by the online community because of this ridiculous bug. Instead we get a 3D-Lego mode, data logger* (*only logs in free run mode and single best lap) and a data visualiser which currently serves no purpose to anybody.
The best things about the last patch are the simplest to implement. Displaying competitor PP, power and weight in the member list, Overall best time on the HUD, reduction of off-track (grass) auto-TCS, etc. Simple, simple changes that make a significant difference online.
I did some testing recently.
Spent a couple of hours last night running controlled tests around Motegi Speedway. I used this track because you can load up the car in the corners to test grip but still reel off lap-after-lap within a tenth of each other.
Results as follows:
Some have suggested the bug is more prevalent in MR and FR cars. But I suggest (as have others) that it's a similar case to the tyre width bug. Upon pitting it's possible the game using using the front wheel width parameter to calculate the rear tyre width/grip.
There's a specific reason I chose the WRX and 86 GT for comparison. Their real life counterparts use the same tyre width front and back. So assuming PD have used the correct real life values in game, then even if the rear is fitted with front tyres, grip (and therefore lap times) should not suffer. Also noted that even Sports Hard tyres (on the Lambo) exhibited the same lose of grip albeit to a lesser extent than the racing softs.
Whatever is causing the rpm/speed/ratios to change is a strange one. From my limited test above only the Racing Softs exhibited this problem. While the Countach with Sports Hard showed no change between before and after pitstops.
More testing is required to back it up but the goal is to get it plastered on the front page at GT Planet like last time. Maybe then it'll get fixed.
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Not my video, but basically this:
http://youtu.be/lzd-VmOdgqc
Happened a few times when I was outputting 5.1 via HDMI to my AV Receiver
So I switch to optical 5.1 out to my Turtle Beach PX5. Same problem.
So now I've just set the PS3 to multi-sound output and have connected the standard analogue audio cable to the PX5 (stereo only) and it doesn't glitch. I believe you can also set the PS3 to stereo output only and it solves the issue via HDMI and Optical too. (minus the surround sound of course)
It's a crappy work around, but at least the bug doesn't affect game play.
BADNED
Member
Pretty sure this was known since launch. Just race in Arcade mode by renting the "BMW M3 GT (BMW Motorsport) '11". After completion of the race go to the BMW dealership and you will find the BMW M3 GT2 Base Model for purchase.
I think it also unlocks when you just buy the "BMW M3 GT (BMW Motorsport) '11" in the dealership.
'Known'? As far as I know it's totally undocumented. I certainly missed it anyway. Oh PD, why you so crazy?
Yes, my point is that this is impossible to know unless you just happen to see a thread like that. Which I assume the vast majority of players will not.
EDIT: By 'undocumented', I meant officially.
dreamer3kx
Member
Nice, I recently picked it up myself, playing this and Forza 5, prefer GT, Forza is a bit too arcadey, this feels like a sim should feel. I cant wait for PS4 GT.
Yeah, I haven't played a GT in forever because I originally went with the 360 last gen and I recently got a PS3, so I'm finally catching up on some PS3 exclusives and I haven't really played a racing game since Forza Horizon, so I figured GT6 would be the perfect race sim to play
Graphics Horse
Member
Just went to have a look at the latest seasonals and my confidence in PD has risen slightly.
The first one is SRF forced on and billed as for beginners, the second one has it forced off and is billed for more skilled players, the third one is a choice of either but with a set car.
They're getting closer but they've got the combination wrong, if they can eventually get to SRF forced off and a set car/no tuning (like the FT-1 event), but with a car that is nice to drive then I'll be very happy.
Also, I hope GT Academy is similar to the one we got in 2012(?) with lots of events rather than last years stripped down affair.
The first one is SRF forced on and billed as for beginners, the second one has it forced off and is billed for more skilled players, the third one is a choice of either but with a set car.
They're getting closer but they've got the combination wrong, if they can eventually get to SRF forced off and a set car/no tuning (like the FT-1 event), but with a car that is nice to drive then I'll be very happy.
Also, I hope GT Academy is similar to the one we got in 2012(?) with lots of events rather than last years stripped down affair.
For the second time the Academy will be conducted through the game - Gran Turismo 6 - and not through the free standalone application (2011 ACC qualifier was also within GT5).
I think it is a good thing - more stable, probably integrated awards, etc - but I see there could be some people not so happy about it.
OK now how do we wave this under Kaz's nose?
I decided to run more testing this evening to back up the data. First some more laps tests;
Motegi Speedway lap times.
Pick a car, punch in three consecutive laps and take the average times. Please note I de-tuned the 787B with the lower grip tyres. The purpose of the test is to check consistency, not outright speed.
Two very different cars obviously but the results were still surprising. Whatever physics bug is causing this discrepancy seems to manifest itself in different ways. It's possible that grip may be reduced, but in some cases improves balance which keeps lap times equal. But under no circumstances does the post-pit tyre set improve laps times.
Next up - Accelerated tyre wear test
Standard Escudo Pikes Peak - SSRX
2 laps with pit stop.
Full wet weather tyres
Fast tyre/fuel depletion
At the end of the first lap the tyres on all three cars had barley done any work. Only the highly tuned Supra showed slight wear on the left rear while the fronts cooled over the run. Which is slightly bemusing given it maintained an average speed of 450km/h. Obviously the tyre physics are only heating up due to corner scrub.
After the pit stop the Supra had worn both rear tyres down to 7 before the first bank. It didn't even make it to the second banked turn as the tyres wore to 1 and 2 respectively, sending it into a massive spin on the straight. The front tyres didn't seem to be affected at all but the rear (driving) wheels were getting torched.
So I decided to switch to the 4WD Escudo. Once again lap 1 showed virtually no tyre wear and the rubber remained cold. After the pitstop all four tyres started to wear noticeably, although the rears were a little worse.
Then I tuned up (power wise anyway) a Focus ST. Again, all fours tyres not worn after lap 1 and remained cold. After the pitstop the rears didn't suffer, but the front driving wheels showed significant wear.
In all cases above I noticed the following:
Constant tyre screeching in a straight line
I know many already are aware of this, but if you want to replicate it for yourself then throw a set of full wets on during a pitstop. It happens with all the tyre types, but the full wets give the loudest screech.
Car shakes violently after pitstop
The game tries to replicate cockpit movement somewhat anyway, but after a pitstop this shake becomes much more violent. The horizon becomes something of a blur because the camera is shaking so much.
Finally - The ratio test
Tests were run on SSRX before and after pit stop.
Measurements were done by capturing the recorded replays and frame advancing the footage until the tacho needle hit 8000rpm.
The race and wet weather tyres are broken. Also seems each tyre increases in diameter as the compounds get softer. No idea why that is, but the purpose of this exercise is to check consistency between the first set of rubber and the set fitted during the pit stop.
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Seems like the game is referencing one set of default values when you enter the track (values for tyre compound, diameter etc) and another (screwed up set of erroneous data) when performing a pit stop. Whenever you go to track the tyre values seem correct lobby (but leave your car entered or 'on track'), when you go back to the car the tyre values are correct again and the bug is gone.
Whatever values are referenced during a pit stop scenario must be screwed. We know for a fact that the tyre circumferences are wrong for the racing & wet tyres and something is 100% getting screwed in the physics department at least with the driving tyres. Theres no questioning the results of the speed and tyre wears tests. All can be easily replicated by anybody.
I don't see how anyone could be upset about that? Surely it's unusual that it's not tied to a purchase of the game not the other way round.
Interesting reading MGR. One question though, how do you know that the tyre's diameter is increasing as you change compound, a visual check from the replay?
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
Even if the tyre size changes in a race, the size doesn't affect the physics - well certainly not for the snow tyre:
no changes in balance or grip between each set, changing wheel size to alter the side wall is the same. So this so called new Yokohama tyre model can't be implemented in GT6, it just cannot be. It's the same set up as GT5.
220mm (default)
165mm
65mm
no changes in balance or grip between each set, changing wheel size to alter the side wall is the same. So this so called new Yokohama tyre model can't be implemented in GT6, it just cannot be. It's the same set up as GT5.
It's looking more and more like that GT6 presentation at Silverstone was actually about GT7, they've moved on.
Graphics Horse
Member
Or it's just sponsorship.
I remember Namco arcade racers had a partnership with Yokohama tyres too.
I played back the recorded replays and captured then on my PC. Then used frame advance and reverse to line up the tacho needle as close to the centre of the 8000rpm marking. Then I noted the speed on the digital display. If the speed is higher then tyre circumference must be bigger. That said, who the hell knows exactly what settings are being changed in the physics engine with each tyre change.
I tried checking the data logger on a recorded 787b replay. Rear tyre speeds are some 30+km/h faster than the front tyres. The main speed indicator seemed to be the same as the front tyre speeds though. Then I checked a WRX replay. The rear tyre speed was about 3km/h faster than the front at ~280clicks. The main speed indicator was showing low 270's from memory.
Also, the recorded wheel speeds can't handle unit changes from MPH to KMH. So if you download a time trial ghost replay that was recorded in MPH and compare to your data recorded in KMH, the MPH data doesn't convert. So your replay might show you travelling at 100km/h, and the data recorded in MPH will show 60km/h instead. The whole thing's a joke.
To be fair you can't expect changes to the physics model just because you've hacked the game to change the appearance of the wheels.
Graphics Horse
Member
That's... bizarre.... I can't understand why that would be coded in a way for that mistake to be possible. Instead of using a fixed internal speed unit (like meters per second) they're taking the regional converted speed and saving that in the logger/replay data? wat. But that means the logger data also needs to include which regional conversion they were using in order to convert it back into the simulation.. and just accidentally display the number unconverted. But why...
seattle6418
Member
You edited right? I was going to say we had a GT Academy in the past ran inside of GT5. It was the one where they had multiple bugs and kept changing tracks during the second leg of the competition. It was one of the better ones i think, 512, then 128 then 32. Awesome setup and not just "three or four weeks in this same TT".
I think it´s a shame they are running on last gen. GT Academy could be a great demo for PS4. That´s the type of stuff you really don´t care about userbase, the ones interested will play on whatever is avaliable.
So they released a teaser showing Rio de Janeiro and now Mexico is in but Brazil is out? WTF is going on. Ghosn vetoing his own country?
Ah, so you're making the assumption that the speed increase is due to a change in wheel diameter. The problem with that is it would require a fully modelled physical space tyre model where velocity is determined from the rotational speed of the rolling tyre multiplied by a physical circumference. I don't think they have anything close to that (as Wax possibly demonstrates above).
My thinking is that the speed is increasing because each tyre compund is assigned more 'grip' and it is this grip that determines how much of the engine's power is translated to forward momentum through the interaction with the road surface.
This would seem to be suported by your findings that the driven wheels are moving faster than the passive wheels, and would explain why you get 'loss of traction' screeching going in a straight line (because the driven wheels are effectively wheelspinning constantly).
So for a softer tyre more of the engine's torque is available to push the car along because less of it is being lost through wheelspin.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
Snow tyres show no change in data logger, maybe because there's only one set so there's no other calculations to affect the read outs?
Tried the road tyres with a quick controller test and reduced the stock tyres by 50mm F/R, the change resulted in wheel speed differences of up to 60+mph faster.
Stock Front: 205mm, 17inch wheel
Stock Rear: 255mm, 18inch wheel
I need to bust out the wheel for a proper test because I'm sure the edited tyres made the car less nervous in the twisty bits and fast left handers on the hill. Time difference was because I had a dodgy moment.
Tried the road tyres with a quick controller test and reduced the stock tyres by 50mm F/R, the change resulted in wheel speed differences of up to 60+mph faster.
Stock Front: 205mm, 17inch wheel
Stock Rear: 255mm, 18inch wheel
I need to bust out the wheel for a proper test because I'm sure the edited tyres made the car less nervous in the twisty bits and fast left handers on the hill. Time difference was because I had a dodgy moment.
Snow tyres show no change in data logger, maybe because there's only one set so there's no other calculations to affect the read outs?
Tried the road tyres with a quick controller test and reduced the stock tyres by 50mm F/R, the change resulted in wheel speed differences of up to 60+mph faster.
Stock Front: 205mm, 17inch wheel
Stock Rear: 255mm, 18inch wheel
I need to bust out the wheel for a proper test because I'm sure the edited tyres made the car less nervous in the twisty bits and fast left handers on the hill. Time difference was because I had a dodgy moment.
Wait, you changed the width of the tyres and it changed wheel speed? Have I read that right?
Yes, I forgot about 2011, friend corrected me
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
Yes, maybe data logger is just a bug riddled piece of shit?
I'll repeat the test with a different car and track.
I'll repeat the test with a different car and track.
Well, if true - and we can't know that for sure, because Vanilla is basically hexing the original engine, so outcomes *could* be in the offset (however, highly unlikely) - then I can understand why there is no option to alter the tire-width in the game.
Interesting developments nonetheless.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
Does the same, reductions over 150mm resulted in wheel speed equalling / dropping below stock.
This is just like driving on a wet surface with slicks and real grip.
Stock:
50mm F/R change:
5mm F/R tyres, lol:
This is just like driving on a wet surface with slicks and real grip.
In the second picture it looks like the 40.684 (blue) isn't graphing properly (it's moved down) and the speeds that should be on the blue are now on the grey? I'm properly confused as to what's going on.
Hilarious picture though
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
I couldn't check before because my laptop doesn't have photoshop, but yeah the wheel speed reading bugs out when loading stock/mod replays, probably the same bug as the mph / kph thing?
gif with three changes and reducing the tyre width doesn't do shit to the speed - lol
The data logger can do one - 15 days until dat MP4/4 banderas.gif
gif with three changes and reducing the tyre width doesn't do shit to the speed - lol
The data logger can do one - 15 days until dat MP4/4 banderas.gif
This kind of monumental oversight gives us a window into PD's modus operandi.
I don't see how there's any other way to calculate it???
The speed calculation should really be very simple:
(RPM / Gear Ratio / Diff Ratio x Tyre Circumfrence)
Although it could also look something more like this:
((RPM / Gear Ratio / Diff Ratio x Tyre Circumfrence) x ?PD??MAGIC?FORMULA?SPECIAL?YOKO?COLABORATION?NUMBER?)
I guess we don't really know why different tyres and compounds exhibit a minor difference in speed but it has to be either the tyre circumfrence value or the ?PD??MAGIC?FORMULA?SPECIAL?YOKO?COLABORATION?NUMBER?
The heart of the problem from a gameplay perspective is one of these values in the equation is being changed during a pit stop to alter the effective circumfrence of the tyre (but only to the racing and wet tyres).
That's an interesting theory but I think the speed differences are still there under deceleration too. I'll double check this evening. Regardless, there is some merit to the idea that the tyres are constantly 'slipping' after a pit stop change.
We can assume given the testing data around SSRX that tyres only wear and generate heat with slip. (Corner slip and wheel spin) Travelling in a straight line at +450km/h will actually see the tyres cool in temperature. The amount of wear and heat generated seems be a formula based on slip angle and wheel speed relative to the car speed. (ie Faster wheel spin, more corner slip angle and speed = more heat & wear). When the tyres start to slip the tyre screech audio effect come into play. The more wheel slip, the louder the tyre screech audio.
It's like something changes in the physics calculation for wheel-spin-tyre-slip, so they are always 'slipping' (even by a small amount) in a straight line. This slip value is also used to determine when and how load the tyre screech audio is played.
Maybe the data logger is just exposing the mess that is the GT6 physics engine.
I was thinking that it was more that the speed of the wheels is determined directly from the gear ratio and then speed loss from loss of grip (determined by tyre compound/slip angle) is subtracted from this theoretical speed to determine the actual forward velocity.
Two tests that might shed some light on this:
There is a 'top speed' slider in the gear ratios setup, it would be interesting to see if that 'top speed' changed if you leave the ratios the same but change the wheel size.
Also, does changing the wheel size change the actual speed of a car out on track if everything else remains static?
Ah OK I think I get what you mean. Also, I am an idiot because I failed to consider how the speed is calculated when wheel spin comes into play. Car speed calculations in real life are done by measuring things like the tail shaft speed. In GT the speed displayed is actual velocity (or at least it's supposed to be).
As far as the two tests you described:
- Changing the wheel size has no effect on the values of the gear ratios and 'top speed' slider. (already tried)
- The speed of the car on track definitely changes with the difference wheel sizes. This is taken from reviewing replay data:
I might record some laps and review with the data logger.
Another somewhat irritating quirk is all cars feel like they're running a slush box auto during game play. I think it's worse online than offline.
Mazda 787B
- Coasting down to 151km/h
- Smack the throttle wide open and the RPM jumps 250rpm but only 3km/h
- Another 250rpm and the car piles on 10km/h
