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[Pilgrimzero]

I've read Mythos by Stephen Fry and am half way through the sequel, Heroes.

And man talk about don't look in the kitchen of your favorite restaurant.

The Greek Gods, all of them, assholes. Yes even the "good" ones like Athena and Apollo.

And like, I get it. They are Gods. Mortals are playthings. But man, you never wanted their attention ever. A real 50/50 shot it either ends badly for you or it goes well and then ends badly for you.

And the Heroes. Jason, Hercules, Perseus etc. Assholes. Jason almost comes off as the best of them (so far) but cheats on his wife. Herc would fly in a rage and kill whoever was closest to him (which caused him most of his problems).

The "fantasy versions" seen in such stuff as the old 60s films or like Disney's Hercules etc

Like I get your heroes cant be 100% awesome but their flaws are massive. I guess with great power comes great jerks. And all of them die like the dumbest deaths... usually because of a woman (whom they wronged).

And dont get me started on the female characters. Either straight up victims or vengeful harpies.

 

[jason10mm]

To be honest the Greek gods and mythic heroes feel more like real people than any comic book creation or church Saint.

Just look at all the "revisit the past" movement's going on now. A guy who literally ground the nazi war machine to a stop and probably saved the free world almost single handedly can still be tarnished because he didn't much care for folks from a country across the globe.

TEAR DOWN HIS STATUES!!!!

Heroes and gods can, even should be, flawed and that's ok. Because if you think they have no flaws its just because you lack self reflection or are just ignorant.

Can't wait for EVERYONE getting a statue today, like that Ruth Bader Ginsburg lady, to be torn down in a few decades time because she had the AUDACITY to eat meat, own a pet, not listen to the dolphins, flushed the toilet, or whateverthefuck idiots in the future think is a shocking horrid view commonplace today.

 

[Wildebeest]

The only one who tried to be actually helpful was Prometheus, and look what happened to him.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

To be honest the Greek gods and mythic heroes feel more like real people than any comic book creation or church Saint.

Just look at all the "revisit the past" movement's going on now. A guy who literally ground the nazi war machine to a stop and probably saved the free world almost single handedly can still be tarnished because he didn't much care for folks from a country across the globe.

TEAR DOWN HIS STATUES!!!!

Heroes and gods can, even should be, flawed and that's ok. Because if you think they have no flaws its just because you lack self reflection or are just ignorant.

Can't wait for EVERYONE getting a statue today, like that Ruth Bader Ginsburg lady, to be torn down in a few decades time because she had the AUDACITY to eat meat, own a pet, not listen to the dolphins, flushed the toilet, or whateverthefuck idiots in the future think is a shocking horrid view commonplace today.

 

[IDKFA]

I've read Mythos by Stephen Fry and am half way through the sequel, Heroes.

And man talk about don't look in the kitchen of your favorite restaurant.

The Greek Gods, all of them, assholes. Yes even the "good" ones like Athena and Apollo.

And like, I get it. They are Gods. Mortals are playthings. But man, you never wanted their attention ever. A real 50/50 shot it either ends badly for you or it goes well and then ends badly for you.

And the Heroes. Jason, Hercules, Perseus etc. Assholes. Jason almost comes off as the best of them (so far) but cheats on his wife. Herc would fly in a rage and kill whoever was closest to him (which caused him most of his problems).

The "fantasy versions" seen in such stuff as the old 60s films or like Disney's Hercules etc

Like I get your heroes cant be 100% awesome but their flaws are massive. I guess with great power comes great jerks. And all of them die like the dumbest deaths... usually because of a woman (whom they wronged).

And dont get me started on the female characters. Either straight up victims or vengeful harpies.

Nah. They're cool.

My personal favourite is Apollo. One of my favourite Greek tales features the mighty Apollo.

The satyr, Marsyas, had the absolute audacity to challenge Apollo in a music contest. Not only was he insane enough to challenge the God of music, but he was even mad enough to accept terms which stated the winner could treat the defeated party any way he wanted.

Cut a long story short, Marsyas lost, and Apollo's chosen punishment was to flay Marsyas alive.

Spoiler

What a lad. What a fucking legend. That's why the Greek pantheon are amazing.

 

[Bragr]

That's the point though, they are supposed to teach you things from these stories.

 

[AJUMP23]

I thought it was fairly well known the greek gods were extremely flawed....Just like most people.

 

[FunkMiller]

The Greeks saw their god stories as cautionary tales. Which is a lot healthier than the mindless adoration of more contemporary religions.

 

[Valonquar]

Read Norse Mythology by Neil Gaiman. Lotta assholery in that pantheon too.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

That's the point though, they are supposed to teach you things from these stories.

Don’t murder your friends/family when you blind rage.

Don’t stick your little champion into another woman.

Don’t talk about Hera or Apollo will murder your little children.
Etc

 

[Doom85]

Didn’t in God of War 3 Kratos’ actions lead to the deaths of a ton of mortals or something like that? If so,

 

[Pilgrimzero]

Read Norse Mythology by Neil Gaiman. Lotta assholery in that pantheon too.

Yup. Read that one. Really good

Didn’t in God of War 3 Kratos’ actions lead to the deaths of a ton of mortals or something like that? If so,

I mean he killed a lot of people even before he was the actual god of war. He just killed everyone else at the end of 3. Everyone.

Well, some gods (and Demi-gods) may yet be around. Like Artemis.

I can't imagine that this doesn't catch up to Kratos at some point. Then again, who'd have the balls to come after him for it? He killed Zeus... you really want a piece of that?

 

[Happosai]

Ares wasn't that bad...

 

[AJUMP23]

As an additional note, even if you murder people that are jerks, you are still a murderer and that is wrong.

 

[Soodanim]

Like I get your heroes cant be 100% awesome but their flaws are massive.

If you don't get it after that much reading, I'd give up because you're never going to get it.

You give a shit that a mythical character cheated on his wife, so I'm not sure if you're genuine. You're either a complete fanny or playing one quite convincingly.

As an additional note, even if you murder people that are jerks, you are still a murderer and that is wrong.

But being a jerk is also wrong so it balances out as neutral

 

[Doom85]

But being a jerk is also wrong so it balances out as neutral

That will definitely hold up in court…

 

[AJUMP23]

But being a jerk is also wrong so it balances out as neutral

only if they are [insert console fanboy of your choice here] fans.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

If you don't get it after that much reading, I'd give up because you're never going to get it.

You give a shit that a mythical character cheated on his wife, so I'm not sure if you're genuine. You're either a complete fanny or playing one quite convincingly.

But being a jerk is also wrong so it balances out as neutral

My point was modern story retellings gloss over the failings of the heroes and gods.

Look at Hercules, he's even a Marvel Superhero. A man who murdered friends and family if he got mad enough. Don't get me started on Disney's version.

 

[Soodanim]

My point was modern story retellings gloss over the failings of the heroes and gods.

Look at Hercules, he's even a Marvel Superhero. A man who murdered friends and family if he got mad enough. Don't get me started on Disney's version.

Oh! I get you now, you're no longer a fanny. The OP feels like it has an unfinished sentence or two, it threw me off.
Yeah that's true, but I guess it's a different audience and a different goal. Marvel goes for idealistic interpretations, and Disney is that x10.

A fuller representation of the whole Greek mythology would be great. I enjoyed GoW's adaptation (including the Titans and the rest of it), flawed characters are the best and you don't get much more flawed than Zeus' family tree.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

 

[Trunx81]

Greek mythology is amazing, there’s something for everyone. And yes, even if the god you got involved with didn’t screw you up, maybe his brother/sister/wife/husband would in retaliation. Or just for fun.

The Greeks didn’t even invent it all themselves. They took a lot from older cultures and just created stories around their deities to make it fit into the whole narrative.

Just imagine if Christianity didn’t come through as it did and we still build temples for Zeus and told our children tales how he transformed into a bull and made the Minotaurus.

And yes, of course the myths are lectures as well. I love the history of Cassandra, who got the gift of seeing the future but with the curse that no one would ever believe her. Or Pandora, who’s unboxing video ended with the nicest happy ending to such a dark tale: Hope is still there for all of humanity.

But go ahead and read the Bible. If you are looking for blood and horror, you will also find what you are looking for.

 

[Wildebeest]

I don't think it is purely that they saw the gods as examples of how to behave or not. They were superstitious representations of unmastered forces of nature, which were even more dangerous to them than us. Like, Poseidon was viewed as the most senior and powerful of the Olympian gods just because of how dangerous the ocean was. Poseidon was not like Jesus in that he walked the Earth and taught people how to be safe at sea.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

I don't think it is purely that they saw the gods as examples of how to behave or not. They were superstitious representations of unmastered forces of nature, which were even more dangerous to them than us. Like, Poseidon was viewed as the most senior and powerful of the Olympian gods just because of how dangerous the ocean was. Poseidon was not like Jesus in that he walked the Earth and taught people how to be safe at sea.

Pretty sure Zeus is the most senior god in the Greek pantheon.

 

[MarkMe2525]

I imagine this flippant nature, that the Greeks bestowed upon the gods, helped them explain the sometimes chaotic nature of life. Terrible and great things happen at random and it can even seem like "the world" is out to get you sometimes. The Greeks could easily attribute this to the erratic nature of the gods, or at least draw that conclusion.

 

[BadBurger]

The only one who tried to be actually helpful was Prometheus, and look what happened to him.

I thought Prometheus was a Titan. Either way, yea. The ancient Greeks lived in an extremely harsh world, within a chaotic universe that they didn't understand full of drama and tragedy, so that was reflected in their mythologies.

As for Kratos, he murders innocents and his selfish actions led to thousands dying. He did dirt for far less motivation than some of the other Greek gods in their many stories.

 

[Wildebeest]

Pretty sure Zeus is the most senior god in the Greek pantheon.

The other gods follow Zeus, perhaps because Poseidon is totally unstable. In terms of age, I think it goes Hades, Poseidon, then Zeus. Zeus is considered to have the most prestigious domain out of sky, sea and underworld. Power is debatable, but the mythological sources for Zeus being top dog are mostly him bragging about his own power, as they didn't go to war. It is open to interpretation who you think is stronger or more dangerous between the thunderstorm and rough sea, but if they are happening at once while you are sailing neither wins, and you are the loser.

 

[Toots]

I've read Mythos by Stephen Fry and am half way through the sequel, Heroes.

And man talk about don't look in the kitchen of your favorite restaurant.

The Greek Gods, all of them, assholes. Yes even the "good" ones like Athena and Apollo.

And like, I get it. They are Gods. Mortals are playthings. But man, you never wanted their attention ever. A real 50/50 shot it either ends badly for you or it goes well and then ends badly for you.

And the Heroes. Jason, Hercules, Perseus etc. Assholes. Jason almost comes off as the best of them (so far) but cheats on his wife. Herc would fly in a rage and kill whoever was closest to him (which caused him most of his problems).

The "fantasy versions" seen in such stuff as the old 60s films or like Disney's Hercules etc

Like I get your heroes cant be 100% awesome but their flaws are massive. I guess with great power comes great jerks. And all of them die like the dumbest deaths... usually because of a woman (whom they wronged).

And dont get me started on the female characters. Either straight up victims or vengeful harpies.

Men made gods in their image dude i thought everyone knew ?!

 

[Pilgrimzero]

So Theseus is a cool guy more or less.

And wow at the Minotaur. Almost always shown in modern media as a monster to be slain when really he's a tragic character who just wants to die.

Both of them as pals in the Hades game makes a lot more sense now.

 

[Soodanim]

So Theseus is a cool guy more or less.

And wow at the Minotaur. Almost always shown in modern media as a monster to be slain when really he's a tragic character who just wants to die.

Both of them as pals in the Hades game makes a lot more sense now.

I might have to read these books, they sound great

 

[GymWolf]

They were not that bad in the little pollon cartoon...

 

[Pilgrimzero]

I might have to read these books, they sound great

Very entertaining. There are 3. Mythos about the gods. Heroes about the Heroes and Demi-gods. And Troy about the Trojan War.

Just saying if you have a happy version of the old Greek gods and heroes etc as shown in modern media, this will open your eyes. Heck even the "monsters" like Medusa and Minotaur are more sympathetic characters.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Kratos vs the gods was really good.

 

[LoneWolf&Subs]

It’s like the writers that came up with them were attempting to tell you people of authority will always be tempted by power, and cruelty that comes with it.