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[sobaka770]

Anyone else feels like enough is enough? How come all the shows (Arrow, Flash, Daredevil etc.) all start to get ruined by supporting characters suddenly getting superpowers? The writers of these shows clearly run out of ideas and instead of moving the show ahead, they just give superpowers to all the secondary characters. This does allow to create additional character arcs but totally RUINS every show.

Remember when Arrow was good? Just a guy with a crossbow and a vendetta? Remember when Daredevil was just a blind guy who got weirdly sharpened senses (Netflix TV show, not the movie)? Remember when Flash was the only speedster and meta in the team? Weren’t all these shows better when the focus was on just that singular hero?

I’d argue that all those shows got totally derailed by every support character getting a superpower or suddenly becoming a genius. What tension can there be if everyone is so damn awesome at what they do?

Let’s look at Arrow closer: in season 1, Oliver was the only one who underwent a grueling torture on an island and turned into master archer. The flashbacks were slowly explaining how he got so good at what he does. Watching season 5:
• His driver is now an unkillable military soldier who for no reason wears a silly helmet
• His quirky assistant is now the best hacker in the world
• His sister and love interest learned how to be better than all the police in less than a year
• His former love interest has been trained as assassin and is also a vigilante (on another show)

Talk about small world! Oh, and let’s not forget about everyone getting a silly nickname? Spartan, Overwatch, Canary (let’s not forget Cassidy’s fake screaming while the cry was actually coming from a device – wtf was that about). Arrow got so much better this season just because they focused back on just Oliver being a single true badass (although his new kids class is also weirdly good at everything), a smaller-scale villain and all the overpowered support cast either quitting or dealing with other things – good riddance.

Do I need to go on and say that all the team Flash getting metahuman powers is awkward as hell, Daredevil nosedived with Electra ark and now the reporter Jimmy Olsen from Supergirl suddenly becomes a badass superhero without any training but blackbelt karate (and a suit)? Legends of Tomorrow is a special kind of terrible so I omit it from this, at least they know they are silly and embrace it.

All of DC shows slowly lose all tension and drama, when it’s nothing but superhero teams tackling in more and more ridiculous threats (DC crossover episode was all cringe). The funny thing is that Agents of Shield which was terrible in Season 1 is now absolutely rocking it because they have the guts to actually kill off characters and expand the cast organically without everyone being superhuman all the time.

TLTR: I know comic books are like that, but TV is not comics, stop giving everyone a superpower, go back to the basics and create some good drama for once.

 

[Cipher Peon]

Disagreed 100000%

One of the greatest joys in superhero shows for me is having a team of normies that evolve into superpowered badasses over time. Kind of like where Agents of SHIELD was heading and then noped out pretty quick from.

Love that everyone is getting powers woot woot

 

[SpaceWolf]

If you want genuine, grounded dramas...you're watching entirely the wrong kind of shows. God knows, there's enough great stuff out there that isn't related to the superhero genre.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

I disagree, any writing missteps are writing missteps.

 

[Rhaknar]

most of the examples you gave would be in the comics aswell so... you're watching the wrong shows

 

[BronsonLee]

Arrow had to evolve as a show since it was the impetus for all of the other ones

That being said I am with you, Arrow S1 was amazing because Ollie would just fucking crush people and they'd move through plot threads pretty fast for such a show

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Yoire watching the wrong shows.

More powers =/= worse writing or less drama

Legion is getting great reviews and it looks like it has a whole group of powered people going by the trailers.

 

[Caelus]

I don't mind the other members of Team Flash getting powers, from the moment we knew Cisco and Caitlin's names some of us kind of expected and anticipated they'd get powers, and to be honest it's not like it's entirely changed their roles within the team.

 

[Frozenprince]

The problem isn't powers.

It's writers that don't understand how to use those powers in a compelling fashion.

 

[LionPride]

I mean, Arrow is the best DCTV show rn so....

Plus powers haven't ruined anything. Not on Flash, Arrow, or anything really

 

[Imbarkus]

I remember after leaving Amazing Spider-Man 2 I looked up the fictional character biography of Norman Osborn on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Osborn

...comic book stories are nuts. Go pull down another watching of Unbreakable to get grounded, I guess.

 

[markofhavoc]

Quite the opposite, these shows are getting better as they embrace its powers

 

[xxracerxx]

His sister and love interest learned how to be better than all the police in less than a year

This reads wrong.

 

[broncobuster]

This reads wrong.

Clearly you haven't read Wozzly's posts in the Arrow threads.

 

[LotusHD]

I mean, Arrow is the best DCTV show rn so....

Plus powers haven't ruined anything. Not on Flash, Arrow, or anything really

After Legends' last episode, I kinda feel they're tied now lol

Arrow is the most consistent, but Legends takes itself the least seriously this season which makes it great in a different sort of way lol

OT:

Maybe these shows just aren't for you OP. That being said, powers do not inherently make a show worse. It's about the writers and how they implement them into the narrative...

 

[spleenpoker]

His sister and love interest learned how to be better than all the police in less than a year

I haven't watched since the end of season 2. Is this right?

 

[WaffleTaco]

They are super hero shows...there's only so much you can do with them without plots being repeated.

 

[Fades]

• His sister and love interest learned how to be better than all the police in less than a year

I see what you did there.

Powers and skills are not what's ruining these shows (if you can even call it "ruining"). They're (largely necessary) evolutions of the actual comic tropes that they're based upon. If you're looking for grounded, realistic drama, watching a show set in a universe where a particle collider explosion gave a man super speed and a connection to a sentient universal power is not really what you're looking for. Powers themselves do not make a show worse. It's easy to rely to heavily on them, yeah, but the complete removal of support characters is not a solution either.

I also kind of spurn the idea that Daredevil took a nosedive with Electra and The Hand, who are both large parts of his character in the comics and were bound to make an appearance eventually, especially when Iron Fist's mysticism was slated to be part of the series from the beginning. Anyone who went into DD's season two with the expectation of everything continuing to be hyper grounded kinda played themselves, but that's just my perspective.

Also, codenames in Arrow, from a practicality standpoint, was also a good idea, especially taking the events of season 3 into account. It was meant to hide their identities and provide a break between the Arrow and his crew, and that of the "Green Arrow". That also is why Diggle wears his "useless" helmet, because another domino mask would be too cliche, I guess.

 

[Penguin]

This reads wrong.

Not from that sexual tension between the two of em... where's Wozzly

 

[LakeEarth]

The fact that every Flash big bad is a speedster is getting on my nerves. Flash has a halfway decent rogues gallery but nope. It's ridiculous that the show always starts with Barry saying 'I am the fastest man alive' when he is always being outclassed in that department.

 

[Parch]

All of the series have had good and bad seasons. Arrow is better than it was. SHIELD is better than it was. Flash is worse than it was, IMO. Supergirl is still interesting enough.

The only show that I feel is can't miss is Gotham. I love that show.

 

[BLACKLAC]

The problem isn't powers.

It's writers that don't understand how to use those powers in a compelling fashion.

Budget plays a big factor as well; AoS was killing it with Ghost Rider, killing it so much they ran out of money half way through the season.

 

[Fades]

The fact that every Flash big bad is a speedster is getting on my nerves. Flash has a halfway decent rogues gallery.

That's definitely a legitimate gripe. I'm not sure if they're concerned about being able to sell a non-speedster as a legitimate threat, or what. Really, most villains-of-the-day who are NOT speedsters require writing Barry and crew as complete idiots, which they are, and I could see how that would be perceived to be potentially off-putting in a season-long arc...but it's hard to say what their reasoning is.

 

[Slayven]

The problem isn't powers.

It's writers that don't understand how to use those powers in a compelling fashion.

"Hmmm, Firestorm the Nuclear man. Surely his only ability is to burn stuff"

 

[Metalmarc]

They all want them to be the next Avengers/Guardians i guess

 

[Ponn]

Thats kind of funny because what I wasn't initially liking about the shows was how every main superhero suddenly had a team of normal people in a command center behind them. The concept just sounded shoehorned in to carry plots forward and have regular cast members but unnecessary. When they started getting powers it now seems more like smaller pockets of justice league teams and makes more sense.

 

[Slayven]

If anything these shows need to start really exploring the powers.

 

[Fades]

tbh I thought that reimagining Felicity Smoak from an F-list Firestorm antagonist to a supporting character in Arrow who's a computer hacking extraordinaire was a particularly inspired choice.

 

[Anbokr]

Yeah I agree, I enjoyed most of these shows when the hero was flying solo-ish. They are just too much now, and the whole ensemble thing is being pushed too hard -- powers flying right and left and the show gets fairly boring, fairly quickly.

 

[Stone Ocean]

They're superhero shows, I dunno why you expected something like a Nolan Batman.

That said I agree that the Damien Darhk mumbo jumbo was boring as shit and the final fight in S4 was Diamondback levels of bad and cheesy.

 

[The Shadow]

I agree OP but it's not just superhero comic book shows. It's just lazy writing. I finished the first season of Supergirl not long ago and started season 2 when it moved to the CW, and that basically happened to Winn. He was kind of a normal IT guy at the beginning, but now he's this master hacker / engineer working for the DEO. He was kind of a quiet guy and now he's this smarmy guy that I can barely stand.

Is character crawl a term? Seems like that's what's happening with these characters. The writers or producers start liking them, so they're written less and less realistically. No faults. Just super geniuses.

His sister and love interest

Wait.....what?

 

[Anth0ny]

it's the writers

 

[Htown]

Yeah, if there's one thing I've always said, it's that superhero shows need less superpowers in them.

What?

 

[- J - D -]

I'm kinda exhausted with the motivational speeches that the supporting cast of these shows have to give the hero in practically every episode. Now multiply it by 4 (the number of current DCTV shows) and it gets old really, really fast.

I know it's an inherent flaw with the genre itself, but man, can they come up with something new in this regard? Mopey hero having to be told that they are stronger he or she thinks after every single setback is stale bread at this point.

 

[Joni]

Arrow got so much better this season just because they focused back on just Oliver being a single true badass (although his new kids class is also weirdly good at everything), a smaller-scale villain and all the overpowered support cast either quitting or dealing with other things – good riddance..

Team Arrow is currently Arrow, Spartan, Overwatch, Terrific, Ragman, Wild Dog with appearances from Artemis, Black Canary and Speedy. And honestly, if you want no supporting cast, stick to the movies. This world building is why I like them on television. They can't do entire seasons with just one hero without padding like Daredevil or Jessica Jones.

 

[jph139]

I only watch Supergirl, but honestly, I'm not a fan either. Start of the show there was A) Supergirl B) her sister who is secretly a spy and C) her sister's boss who is secretly Martian Manhunter. Two and a half superheroes at best. The rest of the cast is normal guys in support roles, in different facets of her life.

Now you have Supergirl, her co-workers are not a two-man vigilante team, there's another Martian in the mix, another superpowered love interest... the only recurring character who is NOT actively fighting crime all the time is her editor, since they wrote Cat Grant out.

I actually don't care much for the show now that it's 100% focused on a bunch of hero people. The heroic identity <-> secret identity dynamic is an important part of the story for me and they've sort of thrown that away.

 

[Parch]

Considering Supergirl doesn't even have 2 full seasons in the books, yeah, they're pushing the superhero factors a bit faster than the other series. Perhaps that might have happened because they wanted to start doing crossovers between the CW shows.

 

[Mulgrok]

Daredevil

wot?

I don't think you were watching the same show as me.

 

[AoM]

Yeah, if there's one thing I've always said, it's that superhero shows need less superpowers in them.

What?

Too much of anything can be a bad thing. I imagine those familiar with the comics are loving all this exposure, though.

 

[Stilton Disco]

One of the things I truly love about the DC comics is the huge world full of fantastical characters, their relationships, interactions, and growth from interacting.

Quite honestly I want them to accelerate the growth in the number of heroes, locations, teams, scope and scale.

What really frustrates me is the characters just stick in place, taking forever to be anything more tye their status quo, or doomed to plod down one note character arcs. Katelin Snow needs to embrace and learn to use those ice powers safely, Mr Terrific build those T Spheres and get on with being the smartest guy in that universe, The JSA rebuilt, The JLA and Titans established, Superior to get fully folded into the rest of the shows, and Felicity to stop being such a moralising, irritating cow.

 

[WedgeX]

Completely disagree. Love them all.

 

[Big-E]

I am utterly bored of all super hero properties now. I don't even bother with any of them anymore. Still enough non superhero stuff on tv to watch though I do worry this won't be the case for too much longer.

 

[SpideySenses]

I think it's only an issue with Arrow, everyone is a speedster in Flash but I don't find Barry any less special, same with Supergirl and with Legends, I actually think it benefits the non-metas, I've never felt Sara was underpowered and that makes her even more of a badass.

With Arrow though, you have a character like Ragman and as cool as he is, he sticks out like a sore thumb and seems way more powerful than everyone around him. And the new meta this week (don't want to go into too many spoilers), not sure if she'll feel overpowered but she's certainly already contrived, hopefully they turn that around because my first impression is that she would have been better off powerless.

 

[ShdwDrake]

I disagree. Simply because there is alot of great TV to watch that doesn't involve superheroes.

 

[Shaanyboi]

No OP. No.

 

[caliph95]

I don't see how Netflix i singled out here because it has very little super people compared to the cw shows and the cast is mostly normal people. If anything they need more.

 

[LakeEarth]

I complained about this in the main thread, but Flash recently had an episode where the bad guy was a "jewel thief" with a superadvanced guns with homing bullets that were so fast that Flash couldn't outrun them. It also shot lasers, sound waves, mines, rockets and an electronic barrier fence thing. No explanation, could've just said "he stole that gun from a super advanced whatever lab" but nope. He just has it.

 

[Zen Aku]

Well this thread is going to backfired real fast.

I disagree OP. There's plenty of supporting cast who doesn't develop superpowers on all the shows you mentioned. Also if what you want is grounded drama, you're watching the wrong shows.

 

[Zen Aku]

The fact that every Flash big bad is a speedster is getting on my nerves. Flash has a halfway decent rogues gallery but nope. It's ridiculous that the show always starts with Barry saying 'I am the fastest man alive' when he is always being outclassed in that department.

Maybe they should change it to

"My name is Barry Allen and I will be the fastest man alive... One day."

 

[MHWilliams]

Nah.

Just watch different shows OP. No one is forcing you to tune to CW every night.