soulassssns
Banned
Not sure if anybody else noticed and/or posted about this. Did any of you notice the Warden Eternal reference the Spartans as "warrior servants" during the Genesis battle?
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Halo Lore Thread
- Thread starter Korten
- Start date
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
gollumsluvslave
Member
Finished the game the other night, posted some thoughts about the game overall in the spoiler thread, which can be linked here
Halo 5 thoughts
With respect to where Halo 5 leaves the lore, and for Halo 6 speculation, I think it's worth looking at some things that have happened thus far:-
- Medicant Bias sequestered with the Primordial for 53 years, turned on his Creators.
- The Didact was driven insane in his Cryptum after being severed from the Domain...
- The Didact has been Composed. What is the relationship between beings that have been composed (Prometheans/Didact etc) and the Domain?
- Cortana spent a significant amount of time on High Charity with a Gravemind...
- Cortana spent time with the Librarian in Halo 4...
- Cortana appeared to die alongside the Didact at the end of Halo 4 - but we later learn they escaped via a slipspace portal. Did they spend time together?
- Cortana appears in Halo 5 to claim the Mantle of Responsibility (a term created by the Precursors)...
The Librarian no longer holds to a belief in the Mantle:-
Contrast to the Didact
Now this quote from Cortana in Halo 4:-
Gravemind to Cortana in Human Weakness:-
Primordial quotes:-
And finally from Silentium, the Primoridal again, emphasis mine:-
Cortana may CLAIM to have been 'cured' by the Domain (notably an uknown and inscrutable Precursor creation...), but what does that cure entail, and from whose perspective? Maybe the Domain has cured her of foolish human sentiment and she now espouses the logic plague?
Something is definitely WRONG with Cortana.
Halo 5 thoughts
With respect to where Halo 5 leaves the lore, and for Halo 6 speculation, I think it's worth looking at some things that have happened thus far:-
- Medicant Bias sequestered with the Primordial for 53 years, turned on his Creators.
- The Didact was driven insane in his Cryptum after being severed from the Domain...
- The Didact has been Composed. What is the relationship between beings that have been composed (Prometheans/Didact etc) and the Domain?
- Cortana spent a significant amount of time on High Charity with a Gravemind...
- Cortana spent time with the Librarian in Halo 4...
- Cortana appeared to die alongside the Didact at the end of Halo 4 - but we later learn they escaped via a slipspace portal. Did they spend time together?
- Cortana appears in Halo 5 to claim the Mantle of Responsibility (a term created by the Precursors)...
The Librarian no longer holds to a belief in the Mantle:-
Contrast to the Didact
Now this quote from Cortana in Halo 4:-
Gravemind to Cortana in Human Weakness:-
Primordial quotes:-
The Created rise up against the Creators...
And finally from Silentium, the Primoridal again, emphasis mine:-
Cortana may CLAIM to have been 'cured' by the Domain (notably an uknown and inscrutable Precursor creation...), but what does that cure entail, and from whose perspective? Maybe the Domain has cured her of foolish human sentiment and she now espouses the logic plague?
Something is definitely WRONG with Cortana.
Why is everyone saying that Roland response is inadequate to Cortana's rebellion!?! Right after she found the Infinity and all of the other ships were flipping out Lasky ordered the retreat Roland said: "We're just gonna run?" I the immediate chaos and shock of the situation this a pretty daming statement from him. From that statement it looked like Roland was pretty gung ho about having an immediate confrontation with Cortana. I swear some folks just like to complain just because. The storytelling wasn't perfect but I was entertained.
wesleyshark
Banned
This is a great writeup.
It was my assumption that she has logic plague from her time with the Gravemind.
We haven't.
V1LÆM
Gold Member
Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask but can someone explain the opening scene to me? Halsey puts a tube into a console and Cortana appears. This is the scene where my avatar is from.
Where does this scene fit in? Does Halsey have a copy of Cortana in what I assume is her office/lab? Or is this the original Cortana from before her rampancy?
Where does this scene fit in? Does Halsey have a copy of Cortana in what I assume is her office/lab? Or is this the original Cortana from before her rampancy?
I think in one of the books it is said that Halsey had many "copies and/or versions" of Cortana lying about. Illegal copies? Maybe that's why she mentions that Locke might come for them.
It's a flashback to her time back in CASTLE base.
gollumsluvslave
Member
Thanks, I find it too much of a coincidence that what Cortana is attempting with the Guardians to force a 'peace' is so close to what the Primordial offers in Silentium, especially 'No more will. No more freedom'.
Couple this with the description of the Logic Plague
http://www.halopedia.org/Logic_plague
And then this:-
Cortana is claiming to have made contact with the Domain? Hmmm....
Supporting quote from Mendicant Bias echoing this from Primordium, p338 UK Trade paperback...
So BOTH Cortana and Mendicant Bias were interrogated by the Primordial / Gravemind AND made contact with the Domain... Hmmm...
Halo Terminals offer some interesting nuggets in what the Primoridal says to Mendicant Bias (emphasis mine again):-
Exactly what Cortana is offering, in so many words...
As others have said, its her on reach. The book she casually drops is her diary that came with some editions of Reach.
I think its a refernce to the missing pages and the theory of how to beat rampacy using slipspace as a storage medium. The domain likely does something very similar.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Because if you don't agree with a complaint, then they're complaining "just because".
Come on.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I'd say that people aren't complaining about the character's response, they're just saying that "Why is Cortana the problem? Because she refused to die when she was supposed to?" and "We're just gonna run?", with nothing in-between, is some pretty minimalist characterisation.
I think that was in the past on reach where she was created.
Another thing I noticed, I can't remember the books name in evolutions where gravemind and cortana talked but he offered her immortality as well. And offers it to all beings.
Also hasn't it be theorized that part of the gravemind exist in slipspace . What if the gravemind and the domain are two sides of the same coin. What if their connected.
DATABASE DATABASE
Member
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
We more or less know that the Gravemind(s) is (are) tied to what is effectively a biological "Domain" given how the Flood functions, but there hasn't been any sign that the two are actually connected. Especially since whatever the Flood "connect" to apparently survived the firing of the Array (or at least was rebuilt prior to the Domain proper).
Finished Fall of Reach this morning. Overall, I thought it was pretty great and in general a good introduction to someone who has only passing familiarity with the universe and hasn't played any of the games.
It gave a good insight into the mind of Master Chief from his origins to the present and it's interesting hearing how others view the Spartans as robots even if it does make some sense.
The perspectives from Halsey and Keyes were quite good as well I thought, especially Keyes as I like the space battles throughout as it reminded me a bit of similar stuff from some of Star Wars novels I'd read in the past.
The Covenant remained mysterious and we really only learned about them as humanity did and this also gave a good impression on just how powerful they are as well as how far behind humanity was. I do sort of wish we'd gotten more from them, but the stuff at the very end was pretty good.
And ONI is pretty shady and irritating at times throughout, which anyone not part of them seems to agree on. Was curious that we never found out exactly who Circumference belonged to, though it seemed pretty clearly it was ONI to some degree.
It's a real shame we never got that Live-Action Halo movie since this book is essentially the perfect framework to have one around. Though perhaps it's for the best.
I have another book I'm going into now, but I'll be returning to this universe as soon as I'm done with that. What would be the next book to go towards then? Is there a good novelization of the first game which this book seems to end at the start of or would I be better served just playing that myself perhaps? Is there a general order and list of which books to go for and maybe which ones to avoid? And when should I read the Forerunner books?
Sorry for all the questions.
It gave a good insight into the mind of Master Chief from his origins to the present and it's interesting hearing how others view the Spartans as robots even if it does make some sense.
The perspectives from Halsey and Keyes were quite good as well I thought, especially Keyes as I like the space battles throughout as it reminded me a bit of similar stuff from some of Star Wars novels I'd read in the past.
The Covenant remained mysterious and we really only learned about them as humanity did and this also gave a good impression on just how powerful they are as well as how far behind humanity was. I do sort of wish we'd gotten more from them, but the stuff at the very end was pretty good.
And ONI is pretty shady and irritating at times throughout, which anyone not part of them seems to agree on. Was curious that we never found out exactly who Circumference belonged to, though it seemed pretty clearly it was ONI to some degree.
It's a real shame we never got that Live-Action Halo movie since this book is essentially the perfect framework to have one around. Though perhaps it's for the best.
I have another book I'm going into now, but I'll be returning to this universe as soon as I'm done with that. What would be the next book to go towards then? Is there a good novelization of the first game which this book seems to end at the start of or would I be better served just playing that myself perhaps? Is there a general order and list of which books to go for and maybe which ones to avoid? And when should I read the Forerunner books?
Sorry for all the questions.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Questions are why the thread's here, more or less 
In order:
-Generally, the next book is First Strike, but...
-The novelization, The Flood, is actually pretty good. Spends too much time recounting firefights from the game, but if you haven't played it that might not be such an issue? I'd recommend it. Game is definitely worth playing, though.
-The books are mostly grouped into largely distinct series, though they tend to follow one after another (but not always). The Nylund books + maybe The Flood are a good starting point, then you can move on to the Forerunner books or whatever else.
In order:
-Generally, the next book is First Strike, but...
-The novelization, The Flood, is actually pretty good. Spends too much time recounting firefights from the game, but if you haven't played it that might not be such an issue? I'd recommend it. Game is definitely worth playing, though.
-The books are mostly grouped into largely distinct series, though they tend to follow one after another (but not always). The Nylund books + maybe The Flood are a good starting point, then you can move on to the Forerunner books or whatever else.
Questions are why the thread's here, more or less
In order:
-Generally, the next book is First Strike, but...
-The novelization, The Flood, is actually pretty good. Spends too much time recounting firefights from the game, but if you haven't played it that might not be such an issue? I'd recommend it. Game is definitely worth playing, though.
-The books are mostly grouped into largely distinct series, though they tend to follow one after another (but not always). The Nylund books + maybe The Flood are a good starting point, then you can move on to the Forerunner books or whatever else.
Thank you both. I'll probably go with The Flood and then First Strike then. I'll have to see about getting the MCC at some point to play through all the original games.
Are there any particular books to avoid or anything?
Poodlestrike
Banned
I really, really, really can't stand Karin Traviss' stuff. Other than that, go nuts.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Anyone already look into the latest Sprint episode "Ship It"? Where cortana is on the halo ring, goes through some brush and walks up to roland?
That screamed halo 6 to me.
That screamed halo 6 to me.
Is she the one I've heard about from the later Star Wars novels (only read the Zahn and X-Wing stuff) by any chance?
I picked up one that was on sale called Last Light, but can't seem to find where that takes place. Would it be after The Flood and the other Nylund books?
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
It takes place between Ghosts of Onyx and Glasslands, but is largely standalone.
And yes, that's her.
Captain Zyrain
Member
Yep.. I actually liked her series, but many did not. The first book finishes off some stories from previous books, and the 2nd book ties into Halo 4, while the 3rd kinda went off in its own direction.
Last Light was really good, one of my favorites, but it takes place a ways after where you're at chronologically. To get there for that book I'd go..
The Flood -> First Strike -> Halo 2 -> Ghosts of Onyx -> Halo 3 -> Glasslands -> Last Light
Also, you need to read the Forerunner Trilogy by Greg Bear.. so good, I'd fit that in towards the end though.
Speaking of which.. on my recent trip I was stuck on a plane for 5 hours each way, so I got to reread Ghosts of Onyx and Silentium.
I don't think I'd read Ghosts of Onyx since it came out, at least all the way through. It was good.. but I actually felt better about the more recent fiction after reading it, as I suppose I was looking back at GoO with rose-colored glasses. It's not bad at all, but I could see another book or two in that same style coming with some diminished returns.
At the opposite spectrum of diminished returns.. holy hell Silentium is SO FREAKING GOOD. I remember enjoying it the first time I read it, but I was reading through it so fast (finished the same day I got it) that I didn't really take it in and enjoy it. Greg Bear is wonderful.
My only problem with it, is that maybe it's TOO good.. that it raised the standard of Halo fiction so high that the games have a hard time competing. From a purely lore perspective, books have it waaaaaay easier, since they get to tell their story perfectly.. with a video game.. you have to make it fun.. not boring.. etc etc. I enjoyed Halo 5, but also felt like there was so much MORE info that was left on the table. I hope they get the opportunity to expand on more stuff in the coming games.. as well as other media.
Monocle
Member
Seconded. She dumps on a lot of Nylund's good work.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Honestly I like most of the original characters in the Kilo-Five trilogy, especially BB (I could take or leave Osman though). The problem was whenever they all started anti-Halsey-hive-minding and got stupidly irrational over it (which was often).
And dropping every major plotline from the first two books in Dictata to solely focus on a single sub-plot, and then not even wrapping it up.
Captain Zyrain
Member
Yeah.. This is true. I try to personally wave it away as those particular characters bias against Halsey, instead of a systemic universe-wide bias. Her portrayal in Halo 5 seems to imply they'll be treating her better going forward hopefully. Or at least not as one-sided.
Sorta off topic.. The Halo 5 soundtrack has become my de facto audio to listen to while reading Halo books. Its so good. I was (and am) a big Trials fan.. But Crypt is climbing fast as my favorite of the soundtrack. Got the LE today and 5.1 sounds awesome!
Captain Zyrain
Member
Last issue of Escalation is terrible.
It's fucking nothing.gif
It was the last one? LMAO...
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
The series never really gets any better than those three issues, and personally I thought those were mediocre at best. 17 and 18 (the Tanaka back-story issues) are probably the most notable beyond the Blue Team arc.
The last 10 or so issues in general were somewhat interesting, but Halo 5's opening kind of makes the whole thing irrelevant to be honest.
LordOfChaos
Member
I liked the Fall of Reach animated series. It seemed to be getting criticism though. There was nothing particularly new in it, but it was pretty good at imparting the feels of the book I thought.
Can't help but think this storyline would make killer movie...
Can't help but think this storyline would make killer movie...
Hey did any of you guys catch it?
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/canon-fodder-fowl-play
Look at one of the links mentioned in the Giving Thanks section.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/canon-fodder-fowl-play
Look at one of the links mentioned in the Giving Thanks section.
Woah they linked it here. That's sweet!Hey did any of you guys catch it?
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/canon-fodder-fowl-play
Look at one of the links mentioned in the Giving Thanks section.
If I had to guess it was probably either Frankie or maybe a 343 Dev lurker who got it in there. Though I can't deny I almost thought it was going to go to the Halo OT. xD
Grimbrother One, because he actually posts in Halo threads. Occasionally gave us reminders for the next Cannon Fodder Issue.
Captain Zyrain
Member
Do spoil.
---
Maybe they should use the 3D models for the comics. Or something.
Basically, *deep breath* (spoilers ahead for Escalation & I guess Halo 5)..
They built up "The Absolute Record" & the Janus Key as a HUGE thing. It was the whole point of Spartan Ops in Halo 4, and more or less the entirety of Escalation. There were some tangent arcs, but it kept coming back to Halsey & Jul and the Absolute Record.
Short version: No one gets the Absolute Record and nothing that happens really influences Halo 5. Like, at all.
I was really hoping for some kind of tie-in with the Halo 5 story, and other than Halsey ending up with Jul again, and Spartan Palmer not being totally pissed at Halsey.. there isn't much worthwhile about the entire arc. No mention of Cortana, or even 'mysterious signals' or.. something, anything to hint that anything is coming. There is less than a months time difference between the end of Escalation and Halo 5.
I guess I hope it comes up at some point again, but at this point who knows. It seemed like things were really going somewhere. Humans gaining the Absolute Record was the culmination of the Librarians plans, and we even got to see (probably) Offensive Bias. Perhaps this was all leftovers from the Halo 4 story, and didn't mesh with where they wanted to go with Halo 5?
I suppose its the most disappointing that, finally, Escalation seemed like it was going somewhere.. and then.. bam! Nada. You get nothing. No story progression, no one even died. Just back to status quo.
I know 343 got a LOT of flack for people complaining they needed to read the lore to understand Halo 4, but with Halo 5 it almost feels like the knee jerk reaction was to make sure NONE of the lore even impacted or colored Halo 5, which is disappointing.
Short version: No one gets the Absolute Record and nothing that happens really influences Halo 5. Like, at all.
I was really hoping for some kind of tie-in with the Halo 5 story, and other than Halsey ending up with Jul again, and Spartan Palmer not being totally pissed at Halsey.. there isn't much worthwhile about the entire arc. No mention of Cortana, or even 'mysterious signals' or.. something, anything to hint that anything is coming. There is less than a months time difference between the end of Escalation and Halo 5.
I guess I hope it comes up at some point again, but at this point who knows. It seemed like things were really going somewhere. Humans gaining the Absolute Record was the culmination of the Librarians plans, and we even got to see (probably) Offensive Bias. Perhaps this was all leftovers from the Halo 4 story, and didn't mesh with where they wanted to go with Halo 5?
I suppose its the most disappointing that, finally, Escalation seemed like it was going somewhere.. and then.. bam! Nada. You get nothing. No story progression, no one even died. Just back to status quo.
I know 343 got a LOT of flack for people complaining they needed to read the lore to understand Halo 4, but with Halo 5 it almost feels like the knee jerk reaction was to make sure NONE of the lore even impacted or colored Halo 5, which is disappointing.
Hey did any of you guys catch it?
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/canon-fodder-fowl-play
Look at one of the links mentioned in the Giving Thanks section.
That's awesome! Thanks Grim!
Well, then 343 just pulled a Bungie. Back in the Halo 3 days and earlier, it was decreed that humanity could never recover Forerunner tech, they'd always end up blowing it up to deny the Covenant access.
The Absolute Record was always likely to end that way, though. It's simply too powerful a tool to give to your heroes, it'd be story-breaking even more than Trevalyan was.
gollumsluvslave
Member
This *1000!
Between the Forerunner trilogy and Hunt the Truth (especially season 1) I was distinctly underwhelmed by the writing and narrative execution in Halo 5.
LordOfChaos
Member
Well put, and I had a similar feeling about your conclusion. I know this will all probably seem like people harping on it both ways, but for lore fans, all of it felt like a huge tangent to where it seemed things were going, especially as it's titled the "Reclaimer Saga". It does almost seem like they went the other way and made sure the game was completely self contained with the AI rebellion tangent.
I could see
in Halo 6.
Is the Forerunner trilogy really as good as Hunt The Truth? I loved that.
I also got the Escalation issues with Tanaka. Solid stuff. They should've done an anthology with all the backstories for Osiris.
The Absolute Record being humanity's sort of Get Out Of Jail Free card
Is the Forerunner trilogy really as good as Hunt The Truth? I loved that.
I also got the Escalation issues with Tanaka. Solid stuff. They should've done an anthology with all the backstories for Osiris.
LordOfChaos
Member
It's differently good, but definitely good. Probably my favorite Halo lore in fact. There's a stretch in the middle that's a bit drawn out, but stick to it, the conclusion is amazing.
AgentOtaku
Member
Yeah, Forerunner Trilogy is an absolute MUST for any Halo fan.