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[xxjuicesxx]

I think it doesn't have the following cause it strayed from the formula that work. Change killed it.

You can also attribute the smaller following to the huge mistakes in the franchise. So they had Halo 1, Halo 2 was a success player wise, had a huge chunk of xbox live gamers, then 3 came out and that was successful too even though I didn't like it it was a true successor.

Nows the problems you had a bunch of demi spinoffs. You had to get Halo Wars a shitty RTS console game, to get access to early maps in 3. That was the first little dickhead move they did that ruined their image. Buy another fucking game to get early access to maps? Ew. Then you had ODST come out and people were like where the hell is the MP? That game died so fast because it had no replayability, then you had Reach...Image of Halo was jacked up after that.

4 isn't doing so well. People are leaving the Halo series. Why play Call of Halo when you can just play the real game Blops2?

Make a HALO game SOON please.

 

[kylej]

the ending of the first season of spartan ops will reveal obama's kenyan birth certificate

 

[Fracas]

Why would I hope Halo 5 is good? Destiny will be out before then.

 

[The Lamonster]

Why is it always "next time"?

I am of the opinion that if you are not Bungie, creating a decent Halo game from scratch is a challenge. They also had to walk a careful line of proving themselves to the fanbase without changing too much that would make it feel like something other than a Halo game.

It's okay to be critical of Halo 4, but seeing as how they basically nailed the fundamentals right out of the gate, I'll give them a free pass and let the small stuff slide this time.

 

[Trey]

Customization in Halo 4?

I will never agree with the decision to rescind customization options and features from prior Halos, even though I understand why it probably happened.

I would expect more ambitious stuff in Halo 5.

I do too. A more powerful system should mean more space and processing power for more features, higher framerate, more customization options, etc.

343's probationary period is over. They're outside of Bungie's shadow proper, now.

I think it doesn't have the following cause it strayed from the formula that work. Change killed it.

Alternatively, CoD4 unseated the Halo franchise with superficial progression systems and truncated, more immediate gameplay, and Halo was looked upon as a relic from then on. Bungie tried to leverage Halo's core gameplay with some of CoD's class-based design. 343 tried to leverage Halo's core gameplay further with CoD's supporting systems and class-based design.

Why? Because that's where the market went. Your theory is correlative rather than causative, because back when you considered Halo Halo, Halo was the market. What CoD4 brought to the industry is what most gamers want. It was proven decisively in 2007 and ATVI built on their marketshare every year hence. These factors did not exist before Halo 3. Since that point, Halo has been (relatively) trending downwards.

 

[Karl2177]

I answered it in the first sentence of the post you quoted. At least read my post if you're going to quote me.

It doesn't have staying power. Why? Is the base gameplay stale? Is it because Bungie started chasing the CoD crowd in Reach? Is it because progression systems have become a better meta game than the game itself?

 

[NullPointer]

How would you evolve the formula of dropping players down into a singular level and fight waves of enemies? There's only so far you can take it.

Don't rely upon pure defense. Mix things up. Dynamic objectives - alternating base assault and base defense, with dominion-like base upgrading the longer you hold a base.

Provide other mission objectives that play into multiplayer. CTF training, or capturing something oddball or flag shaped from an enemy base and trying to keep it held for X amount of time as enemies hunt you across the map.

Spartans Ops should have been a community driven sandbox utilizing all the features of the Halo series. It should have allowed players to forge their own scenarios, build their own maps, set their settings (lives, starting weapons, etc). 343 could have still released their episodes with the CGI cutscene.

Most scenarios would suck, or be tailored for boosting, but I'd love this.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Why is it always "next time"?

To be serious for a second, we know why. 343 was built and an entire AAA level game was created in what, 3 years? That's a monumental feat. The fact that they had to build a studio from scratch led to a lot of the cuts we see and is emphasized by the "we'll try to add some big things back via patches" statement from 343.

Yeah, it's funny because it fits right into the whole "next time" thing, but at least it has some kind of basis. I think Halo 4 is fantastic with some exceptions, I fully expect those exceptions to be addressed in the next game.

Think of how Bungie did it. Halo 1 was fantastic, but they continued to build and build each game. They added new features, new tech, etc. IMO Halo 4 is 343's Halo 1. A solid game with a great single player and a competent multiplayer that has some balance issues. 343 is still testing the Halo water. With 4 done they know the backbone and can blow the doors off.

the ending of the first season of spartan ops will reveal obama's kenyan birth certificate

I'll give you this one, I laughed at work and god weird looks.

Why would I hope Halo 5 is good? Destiny will be out before then.

Who's to say it will be any good? Bungie's last game was Reach. I hope it's amazing, and the next step in console FPS gaming, but it could turn out bad. We also don't know how much influence Activision gets into it, nor the consequences of being multiplatform. (Don't worry Urk, we're rooting for you guys).

"343 just has to get used to programming for the new Xbox, Halo 6 will deliver!"

A valid argument, but the hardware shouldn't be that different, just more powerful. The issue seemed to be developing a good Halo game and building a studio in a small time frame here.

 

[Shake Appeal]

It doesn't have staying power. Why? Is the base gameplay stale? Is it because Bungie started chasing the CoD crowd in Reach? Is it because progression systems have become a better meta game than the game itself?

"Because CoD", apparently.

 

[Overdoziz]

"343 just has to get used to programming for the new Xbox, Halo 6 will deliver!"

 

[Trey]

"343 just has to get used to programming for the new Xbox, Halo 6 will deliver!"

I was gonna make mention that something like this would probably be said, but I don't buy it. 343 should have Xbox Next kits before anyone, and they're supposed to be an All-Star line-up of the best talent in the industry.

That argument is dead on arrival. Halo 5 in 2015 should be dope, all around.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

SiN Episodes had a horde-type survival wave mode before Gears 2. So did Max Payne 2. Those are the only ones that come to mind though.

That was added in by Freeverse for the port, it wasn't in the original game. Still came before Gears 2's though.

Ghost Recon I believe predates both, and it had "Horde" style modes.

 

[Fracas]

I wonder how far things like personal ordnance and loadouts will be taken in Halo 5.

Will we have weapon attachments? Will personal ordnance now include vehicles?

 

[Trey]

It doesn't have staying power. Why? Is the base gameplay stale? Is it because Bungie started chasing the CoD crowd in Reach? Is it because progression systems have become a better meta game than the game itself?

Better is unimportant. More popular is what's important. In the context of this discussion.

 

[OverHeat]

I wonder how far things like personal ordnance and loadouts will be taken in Halo 5.

Will we have weapon attachments? Will personal ordnance now include vehicles?

Brute chopper drop confirmed!

 

[Tawpgun]

The ragnarok mission was pretty fun. Love warthogs.

One other thing with SpOps, I wish it didnt boot you to the menu when you complete a mission. Wish it was more fluid.

 

[Poker Face]

I wonder how far things like personal ordnance and loadouts will be taken in Halo 5.

Will we have weapon attachments? Will personal ordnance now include vehicles?

Please no.

I know it would never happen, but I'd like to get rid of loadouts, and all of the shit that goes along with them.

 

[Shake Appeal]

I love how in a symmetrical team game one team always looks bigger than the other because of the UI design. It's the little things.

 

[xxxstylzxxx]

Brute chopper drop confirmed!

This would be amazing.

 

[The Lamonster]

I love how in a symmetrical team game one team always looks bigger than the other because of the UI design. It's the little things.

I played a few Reach games the other night, and Bungie's Reach UI is far sexier than Halo 4.

But basically everything else looks better in Halo 4.

 

[Karl2177]

Better is unimportant. More popular is what's important. In the context of this discussion.

Replace better with more popular. Point still stands. It's just arguing semantics.

 

[MaximumFlipFlop]

Before I dive into SpOps.... I want to say... WHAT THE FUCK IS THE POINT OF CLEARING COVANENT OUT OF THE SAME AREA OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. JESUS WHATS THE POINT OF DECURING ANY AREA IF IT BECOMES OVERUN AGAIN!?

ffs

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This is a huge gripe of mine with Spartan Ops. I don't know how many of you played Farcry 2, but that game did something which made me extremely frustrated. Farcry 2 had an outpost system, basically along the way to a real mission (you drove to missions across the open world) you would come across enemy outposts. You'd end up getting in huge firefights with them and usually end up having to clear them all out, vehicles included, before you went on your way. These fights were usually pretty tough with the amount of enemies paired with vehicles. The problem is after your mission was completed, you'd pass back through these locations and all the enemies were back, and you had to do it again. Suddenly you feel as though your actions have become meaningless. What is the point of me being here and clearing out all of these enemies if they'll just end up repopulating the area? They fixed this in the new Farcry but Spartan Ops gives me the same feeling that those outposts do.

 

[TCKaos]

Need two more for Spoops. GT is same as my GAF name.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

Why is it always "next time"?

Because one doesn't know they have done wrong until release.

Everyone's product is perfect in their eyes.

 

[NullPointer]

I know it would never happen, but I'd like to get rid of loadouts, and all of the shit that goes along with them.

And go back to AR vs BR vs DMR vs dual SMGs arguments?

Speaking of loadouts is anybody seeing one AA dominate? It looks like there's a pretty good mix. Hardlight shield, regen field and sentry seem to be the rarest. But for every player who says camo is all you need there are others saying the same about jetpack, and others who live and breathe by all the uses they've found for thrusters and hologram. My impression here is that 343 has balanced these pretty well.

Camo needs some tweaks though.

 

[squidhands]

The ragnarok mission was pretty fun. Love warthogs.

One other thing with SpOps, I wish it didnt boot you to the menu when you complete a mission. Wish it was more fluid.

Gears 3 had a nice system where you could choose a mission, and play through to the next if you wanted. Also had JiP, which is most likely a problem for SpOps.

 

[Plywood]

I think it doesn't have the following cause it strayed from the formula that work. Change killed it.

You can also attribute the smaller following to the huge mistakes in the franchise. So they had Halo 1, Halo 2 was a success player wise, had a huge chunk of xbox live gamers, then 3 came out and that was successful too even though I didn't like it it was a true successor.

Let's not forget killing off the competitive community's interest with no ranks. No ranks for them and there's no reason. You can win a million games but if you don't know what your competition is really like then what does the win really mean? The only reason people pad there K/D now is because W/L doesn't mean shit these days and there's nothing to shows that it matters. Especially with JIP and then the ranks will only be confined to Waypoint.

To be serious for a second, we know why. 343 was built and an entire AAA level game was created in what, 3 years? That's a monumental feat. The fact that they had to build a studio from scratch led to a lot of the cuts we see and is emphasized by the "we'll try to add some big things back via patches" statement from 343.

This is not a AAA game, it's a game in a AAA franchise. The only department that truly stands out are the graphics even though the game sure doesn't have a locked framerate.

I don't understand why people try to say "it's so hard to make a Halo game from scratch". Bullshit, not with the background, experiences and resources 343 had and has. They had inherited 10 years worth of a franchise, 10 years of refinement and retooling that this franchise has had. They tore up those 10 years. They take the time out to make a "true" Flood and Grifball mode, but remove a legacy mode like Assault. What? You're going to say they can add it in, that it wasn't ready for primetime? Why not? It's only been available at launch in every other Halo. You can't tell me they didn't have enough resources for an already existing mode when they've added new modes.

But of course tell me how hard it was to make the game. Tell me this while simultaneously accepting the short campaign, the outsourced Forge, the inactive Fileshare, customization options removed, missing legacy modes and features, a dialed down Firefight, the weakest A.I. in the series and a slew of other technical issues.

The game should have had a beta, tons of things were discovered in the first week that make me and many others feel as though everyone purchased a $60 beta. It's nice that they're fixing these things by the way. So don't get me wrong like I'm ungrateful. But the fact is they're fixing it AFTER the fact. We're the fucking gameplay testers and that's some bullshit.

Is it not?

 

[Reagan's BR]

Halo 2 had something magical

Fun?
Simplicity?
A Good UI?
Ranks?
Skill?
No AA's?
Good Maps?
Great playlist management?
A great sandbox?
No perks?
A level playing field?
A good story?
A decent campaign?
Fun enemies?
Good vehicles?
Good friends list implementation in the UI?
No sprint?
No flinch?
Good stats integration through a working website?
The fact that is wasn't reach or h4?


The sad state of the industry is that Halo 4 is still one of the best currently populated online shooters despite being really, really flawed.

 

[CyReN]

Fun?
Simplicity?
A Good UI?
Ranks?
Skill?
No AA's?
Good Maps?
Great playlist management?
A great sandbox?
No perks?
A level playing field?
A good story?
A decent campaign?
Fun enemies?
Good vehicles?
Good friends list implementation in the UI?
No sprint?
No flinch?
Good stats integration through a working website?
The fact that is wasn't reach or h4?


The sad state of the industry is that Halo 4 is still one of the best currently populated online shooters despite being really, really flawed.

Clans.

----
Playing Spartan Ops, 17 missions in and I've only enjoyed 2 1/2.

 

[Tawpgun]

lol love randoms in spops.

"IS THAT THE DIDACTS GIFT!? DON"T TOUCH IT"

*everyone shoots, teabags and melees it*

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Let's not forget killing off the competitive community's interest with no ranks. No ranks for them and there's no reason. You can win a million games but if you don't know what your competition is really like then what does the win really mean? The only reason people pad there K/D now is because W/L doesn't mean shit these days and there's nothing to shows that it matters. Especially with JIP and then the ranks will only be confined to Waypoint.

This is not a AAA game, it's a game in a AAA franchise. The only department that truly stands out are the graphics even though the game sure doesn't have a locked framerate.

I don't understand why people try to say "it's so hard to make a Halo game from scratch". Bullshit, not with the background, experiences and resources 343 had and has. They had inherited 10 years worth of a franchise, 10 years of refinement and retooling that this franchise has had. They tore up those 10 years. They take the time out to make a "true" Flood and Grifball mode, but remove a legacy mode like Assault. What? You're going to say they can add it in, that it wasn't ready for primetime? Why not? It's only been available at launch in every other Halo. You can't tell me they didn't have enough resources for an already existing mode when they've added new modes.

But of course tell me how hard it was to make the game. Tell me this while simultaneously accepting the short campaign, the outsourced Forge, the inactive Fileshare, customization options removed, missing legacy modes and features, a dialed down Firefight, the weakest A.I. in the series and a slew of other technical issues.

The game should have had a beta, tons of things were discovered in the first week that make me and many others feel as though everyone purchased a $60 beta. It's nice that they're fixing these things by the way. So don't get me wrong like I'm ungrateful. But the fact is they're fixing it AFTER the fact. We're the fucking gameplay testers and that's some bullshit.

Is it not?

AAA is a measure of budget, not perceived quality. So it is a AAA game. It cost a bunch to make.

As for the rest, there's no way we can know how development went. Not sure what people are assuming, that 343 was just sitting around the whole time? There were obviously some challenges that lead to it not being as easy as you seem to think it should be. That's what gets me, people are sitting here assuming that "surely it's easy to make this game, Bungie gave them the tools!" but we really have no idea what 343 got, what state it was in, how it fit into Halo 4, what had to be done to the tools/code/engine, or ANYTHING at all about the development, because we don't work at 343. We can't just assume "oh, Bungie did it, and they gave 343 the tools, so it should have been easy to get Firefight in right?" This is the thing that drives me absolutely insane about people talking about development. There are things about the process of each game out there we will never know, and things like that caused features to be changed or cut. I'd venture a guess that if they decided to do so (and MS allowed it) Ellis/Frank & team could write a damn novel on the lows of Halo 4 development and why things turned out the way they did. But they can't do that, so we're left here assuming, which, well you know what that does.

The rest of your notes are opinions more or less. Ones that I can accept, but disagree with. Things like campaign length, etc.

As for fixes, show me a massive AAA game with this huge of an online community that doesn't have issues that need patched after launch. Blops 2 has major issues right now. Not an excuse, and they could have ironed out some of the early stuff with a beta, but you can't act like it doesn't happen.

 

[Tunavi]

you know the scene in home alone when the mom is on an airplane and kicks back to enjoy her flight, then she bolts upright and screams "KEVIN" because she realizes she forgot macaulay culkin

343 probably did the same thing with screenshot functionality

CAMPAIGN THEATER!

 

[Zeouterlimits]

The game should have had a beta, tons of things were discovered in the first week that make me and many others feel as though everyone purchased a $60 beta. It's nice that they're fixing these things by the way. So don't get me wrong like I'm ungrateful. But the fact is they're fixing it AFTER the fact. We're the fucking gameplay testers and that's some bullshit.

Is it not?

Sure, but if the game was to have a beta it would not come out till next year.

Spoiler

Which in my book, would have been a good thing.

 

[Tunavi]

Paging Tunavey.

Spoiler

I'm eating, please no.

Someone asked for shit?

 

[Fracas]

^Complex is worse IMO

 

[NullPointer]

As for the rest, there's no way we can know how development went. Not sure what people are assuming, that 343 was just sitting around the whole time? There were obviously some challenges that lead to it not being as easy as you seem to think it should be. That's what gets me, people are sitting here assuming that "surely it's easy to make this game, Bungie gave them the tools!" but we really have no idea what 343 got, what state it was in, how it fit into Halo 4, what had to be done to the tools/code/engine, or ANYTHING at all about the development, because we don't work at 343. We can't just assume "oh, Bungie did it, and they gave 343 the tools, so it should have been easy to get Firefight in right?" This is the thing that drives me absolutely insane about people talking about development. There are things about the process of each game out there we will never know, and things like that caused features to be changed or cut.

I think its fair to say that the game was released before it was fully cooked.

 

[Tunavi]

^Complex is worse

nope!

 

[darthbob]

Sure, but if the game was to have a beta it would not come out till next year.

Spoiler

Which in my book, would have been a good thing.

I would have been okay with that.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Let's not forget killing off the competitive community's interest with no ranks. No ranks for them and there's no reason. You can win a million games but if you don't know what your competition is really like then what does the win really mean? The only reason people pad there K/D now is because W/L doesn't mean shit these days and there's nothing to shows that it matters. Especially with JIP and then the ranks will only be confined to Waypoint.

This is not a AAA game, it's a game in a AAA franchise. The only department that truly stands out are the graphics even though the game sure doesn't have a locked framerate.

I don't understand why people try to say "it's so hard to make a Halo game from scratch". Bullshit, not with the background, experiences and resources 343 had and has. They had inherited 10 years worth of a franchise, 10 years of refinement and retooling that this franchise has had. They tore up those 10 years. They take the time out to make a "true" Flood and Grifball mode, but remove a legacy mode like Assault. What? You're going to say they can add it in, that it wasn't ready for primetime? Why not? It's only been available at launch in every other Halo. You can't tell me they didn't have enough resources for an already existing mode when they've added new modes.

But of course tell me how hard it was to make the game. Tell me this while simultaneously accepting the short campaign, the outsourced Forge, the inactive Fileshare, customization options removed, missing legacy modes and features, a dialed down Firefight, the weakest A.I. in the series and a slew of other technical issues.

The game should have had a beta, tons of things were discovered in the first week that make me and many others feel as though everyone purchased a $60 beta. It's nice that they're fixing these things by the way. So don't get me wrong like I'm ungrateful. But the fact is they're fixing it AFTER the fact. We're the fucking gameplay testers and that's some bullshit.

Is it not?

QFT, I don't see how anyone could rationally disagree with this.

This is the most fun I've had with Halo, but it's also INCREDIBLY flawed.

 

[Hypertrooper]

^Complex is worse IMO

Hell god no.

 

[Shake Appeal]

The Cage is the worst map in the entire series, no question.

I'd prefer to play that shit with the teleporters.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I think its fair to say that the game was released before it was fully cooked.

Oh I can agree with this, and I always found it odd MS didn't wait one more year for the new console to showcase the new trilogy, but some of the "it can't be hard to make right" just gets to me a bit.

I need a refresher. Why were the Jackals and Grunts changed again?

New art direction to give the new Halo trilogy a different look than the old series people may have been growing tired of.

 

[Karl2177]

I need a refresher. Why were the Jackals and Grunts changed again?

 

[MrDaravon]

"Because CoD", apparently.

Yes, but my pre-launch worries came true; while they implemented a lot of CoD-esque things (filling bars, customizations, etc), they didn't balance these things properly for Halo and it's existing sandbox, maps, weapons, etc. On a larger note though, they actually didn't go far enough with it. They tried to straddle a line between "traditional" Halo and CoD, but it's ultimately unsatisfying from either perspective. A look at any Halo thread in the last two weeks from oldschool Halo fans makes the the failure on that end of it obvious, and coming at it from a CoD perspective it doesn't go far enough with the crazy. As insane as it is, with both this and BO2 being disappointments we've actually gone back to MW2, which as an interesting aside had fully HALF as many players on Friday afternoon as Halo 4 did. I'm not sure if that says more about MW2, or Halo 4. We'd also go back to Halo 3, but that game is absolutely dead population-wise, and was highly rampant with quitters/blackscreens the few times I tried playing it earlier this year.

Let's not forget killing off the competitive community's interest with no ranks. No ranks for them and there's no reason. You can win a million games but if you don't know what your competition is really like then what does the win really mean? The only reason people pad there K/D now is because W/L doesn't mean shit these days and there's nothing to shows that it matters. Especially with JIP and then the ranks will only be confined to Waypoint.

Yup. Halo 4 has become exactly like CoD in that regard. Your overall Spartan Level (aka Prestige in CoD) is a zero indicator of skill, just how much you have played. W/L is made irrelevant/inaccurate with JIP, team split issues, and backing out after games counting as DNF in your stats. And there's no actual ranks, so literally the only possible indicator of skill you can look at is K/D, and that's bad because that encourages padding, ignoring objectives, etc. I remember working my ass off and having epic battles in Halo 2 and 3 to get my rank up in certain playlists, and that's completely gone. Team Doubles at higher levels in Halo 3 was maybe the best time I ever had with any of the games in the series.

The Cage is the worst map in the entire series, no question.

I'd prefer to play that shit with the teleporters.

Don't say things you can't take back.

 

[MaximumFlipFlop]

AAA is a measure of budget, not perceived quality. So it is a AAA game. It cost a bunch to make.

As for the rest, there's no way we can know how development went. Not sure what people are assuming, that 343 was just sitting around the whole time? There were obviously some challenges that lead to it not being as easy as you seem to think it should be. That's what gets me, people are sitting here assuming that "surely it's easy to make this game, Bungie gave them the tools!" but we really have no idea what 343 got, what state it was in, how it fit into Halo 4, what had to be done to the tools/code/engine, or ANYTHING at all about the development, because we don't work at 343. We can't just assume "oh, Bungie did it, and they gave 343 the tools, so it should have been easy to get Firefight in right?" This is the thing that drives me absolutely insane about people talking about development. There are things about the process of each game out there we will never know, and things like that caused features to be changed or cut. I'd venture a guess that if they decided to do so (and MS allowed it) Ellis/Frank & team could write a damn novel on the lows of Halo 4 development and why things turned out the way they did. But they can't do that, so we're left here assuming, which, well you know what that does.

The rest of your notes are opinions more or less. Ones that I can accept, but disagree with. Things like campaign length, etc.

As for fixes, show me a massive AAA game with this huge of an online community that doesn't have issues that need patched after launch. Blops 2 has major issues right now. Not an excuse, and they could have ironed out some of the early stuff with a beta, but you can't act like it doesn't happen.

The funny thing is, I got a really badass DVD with Halo 2 that showed me what a struggle development was for that game. 343, you missed a huge opportunity to show what Halo 4's development was from the conception of the studio, seeing the studio growth, seeing key members making tough decisions, showing your obstacles etc etc. I think everyone would have enjoyed seeing that.

 

[zlatko]

I need a refresher. Why were the Jackals and Grunts changed again?

Appearance? This group of Covenant is a different variety than the ones in H1-H3. Jul'Mdama Covies are all "gritty" and "hard core" bro.

 

[Korosenai]

I have played every spartan ops mission, and on mission 3 this week I got my first lag free match. It was glorious. Too bad till never happen again.

 

[Trey]

Halo 4 is in an interesting spot. There are two ends of the spectrum that cannot logically meet in the middle unless you split playlists.

 

[Tashi]

The Cage is the worst map in the entire series, no question.

I'd prefer to play that shit with the teleporters.

Epitaph

I actually have nightmares about shield doors regularly

 

[Ramirez]

"Because CoD", apparently.

Well let's hear your expert opinion. It's not rocket science that when CoD really took off, every other FPS suffered in population.

I firmly believe the game isn't as popular for the simple fact that it's not as accessible. Shielded opponents vs. one shot & dead opponents plays a very large role in that, just from personal experience in talks with friends.