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Halo: Reach Beta Thread

soldat7 said:
I love how at least half of HaloGAF is emo after less than a week with the beta. Toughen up and accept the game for what it is (combat evolved), or play Halo 3. It's kinda simple, really. Halo 3 will be around for an awful long time with plenty of players to BR and Power Drain. The rest of us will be playing Bungie's finest multiplayer game yet.

Halo 3 will still be around, but much of the playerbase will be gone, getting a game in Halo 3 this time next year will be a frustrating experience.

Saying "oh go play Halo 3" is a silly argument to be honest, I have no doubt that everyone loves aspects of Reach and would like to check it out, but has problems with it here and there.

"The rest of us will be playing Bungie's finest multiplayer game yet" - No the Halo fans will be playing it, while the majority of people who love it now will move on to the next big thing. Eventually the fans will be left playing a game which was potentially designed for a group of people who dont even play it.
 
Jexhius said:
I don't find the game sub-optimal though. I find it hugely enjoyable. I have no doubt Bungie will fix things like grenade damage, over-powered weapons, veto not working properly, map problems etc.
I'm in the same boat. And you know, there's probably a reason we don't have the normal gametypes in the beta right now. They know how well those work already, it would be pretty hard to mess up a gulch-style CTF game anyway. Invasion and a few other things, is something they've never done. Of course they're going to want to test it and collect much more data on it than the normal gametypes.

However, I doubt they will change jumping or movement speed any time soon, those seem like such clear design decisions.
We'll probably be able to edit those in the final game with custom options as well, so while I agree that the Spartans are stupidly slow, I know that I can always change it in custom games.

The only thing that really disappoints me so far with how Reach is playing is the vehicles. None of them feel right control wise and there's way too much junk that turns them into a flaming death trap.
 
It's crazy to see so many different opinions floating around. I haven't had enough time to really get the feel for Invasion on boneyard, only a few games, which I mentioned earlier. One of my questions is why the need to make bigger and bigger maps? Unless we're upping the number of players in a game, I've never felt the need for maps bigger than the ones from previous Halo games. I'm still a huge proponent of 8v8 in the smaller maps for mass chaos, which you don't get to do anymore unless it's customs. Bigger maps means focusing more on vehicles, and that's not my thing. So I won't go there.

My biggest gripe is still about shields protecting you from death, even when there is only a fraction of your shield left. Can't stand it. Glad that they're fixing the window of time two people have to melee each other. There are so many instances where it's blatantly obvious that one person killed the other person before he/she had an opportunity to melee, but both players end up dead.

Swat + me = headache. I haven't found the sweet spot to kill people. I always end up pumping in 3-4 shots to the head only to find myself dead. Where in the heck are you supposed to aim? Just above the head? Dead center? I don't get it.

Also, count me as one person that misses the melee lunge. It's bad enough that it usually takes two melee's to kill someone, but whiffing on melees just makes it even more painful.
 
bobs99 ... said:
"The rest of us will be playing Bungie's finest multiplayer game yet" - No the Halo fans will be playing it, while the majority of people who love it now will move on to the next big thing. Eventually the fans will be left playing a game which was potentially designed for a group of people who dont even play it.

Halo Reach will be in the Major Nelson's Top 5 list until the next Halo game comes out.

Dirtbag said:
AA is a fundamental change. I don't see how its even up for debate.

They're an evolution of equipment.
 
soldat7 said:
They're an evolution of equipment.
And powerups smart ass...
And that evolution fundamentally changes the way the game is played now. I like them for the most part, but the role equipment plays vs. AA is pretty severe.
 
Dirtbag said:
Going by the new Bungie philosophy of everything having a role, I don't see what the role the current vehicles serve. Distractions might be the only thing I could come up with.

But you've only played with them on a single map for a single day. Have some hope brother!
 
Dax01 said:
Eh. I wouldn't go that far, but it does seem like, in a lot of aspects of Reach, Bungie isn't even trying.

I don't want anyone to get me wrong, I realize Reach isn't Halo 3 - I like the idea of what Bungie is trying to do with loadouts and armor abilities and Invasion, but it seems like, in trying to do all of this, Bungie's focus on what makes Halo Halo has suffered.
That's probably a better summary of my impression of Reach. Halo isn't dead, after all, but the Reach beta introduced a lot of undesirable and highly questionable changes.

Bungie does seem to be losing sight of what makes Halo work. It's as though with Reach they're trying to forcibly mesh Halo's formula with those of other popular military shooters. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I couldn't give two shits about realism or the militaristic aspects of the Halo universe. In a genre full of realistic combat simulators, Halo was the one series that was steeped in fantasy and sci-fi and didn't apologize for it. I love Forerunner architecture, alien landscapes, and the idea of world-sized artificial constructs. I love running around as a super soldier who can jump like he's in a low-gravity environment. I love the way it feels to control Master Chief, to fire weapons and melee enemies. What happened? Why does that have to go away?

Who really wanted to move slower, shoot slower, jump lower and remain more vulnerable when their shields were down? What makes Halo 3 so fucking broken that Reach needs to change virtually every aspect of its gameplay?
 
I wish there was more "narration" during Invasion.

What's it has already is awesome.

I just want more of it.




PS

I was getting fucking owned last night.

To the point I was saying to myself "I will never be as good as these guys. Why am I playing this? Why should I buy this game?"

Hopefully divisions and matchmaking will keep the big boys out of the kiddie pool.
 
REV 09 said:
Just went back and played a game of BTB in Halo 3. Sweet Jesus this game feels perfect after playing Reach for two weeks. And Valhalla is still gorgeous.

I didn't even realize that I missed the bubble shield or dual SMGs.
It's not perfect. Halo 3 BTB has Spartan laser. :p
soldat7 said:
I love how at least half of HaloGAF is emo after less than a week with the beta. Toughen up and accept the game for what it is (combat evolved), or play Halo 3. It's kinda simple, really. Halo 3 will be around for an awful long time with plenty of players to BR and Power Drain. The rest of us will be playing Bungie's finest multiplayer game yet.
From what I've seen and played, this is hardly Bungie's "finest multiplayer game yet." If there is at least one thing everyone in all of HaloGAF can agree about me, it's that I'm not a complainer. This is a beta, and I'm offering up suggestions on ways in which to improve it, not to be "emo." Bungie has a lot of work to do before the release in the fall.
soldat7 said:
You have to understand, some of these guys have been playing Halo 3 and posting on HaloGAF for nearly 3 straight years now. The changes are quite radical to them.
Oh *#&*$&*

It's NOT the changes like AAs and loadouts I have a problem with. Get that through your head.
 
Dirtbag said:
Going by the new Bungie philosophy of everything having a role, I don't see what the role the current vehicles serve. Distractions might be the only thing I could come up with.
Really? Between me and my friends, we've gone on killing frenzies with every vehicle on Boneyard except the Wraith. It is not that hard to get in a vehicle and then dominate for awhile. You just have to be mindful of the enemy spawns and not drive close to places they might pop out of with a plasma pistol or a grenade launcher. Laser seems way less of a threat now as I survived a hit of it in my Banshee then killed the guy with no problem yesterday:lol
 
Dax01 said:
From what I've seen and played, this is hardly Bungie's "finest multiplayer game yet." If there is at least one thing everyone in all of HaloGAF can agree about me, it's that I'm not a complainer. This is a beta, and I'm offering up suggestions on ways in which to improve it, not to be "emo." Bungie has a lot of work to do before the release in the fall.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but serious question: were you old enough to play the original Combat Evolved when it came out?
 
Halo is about explosions and jumping around while trying to shoot at everything that moves.
And I think reach has really gotten that good, I don't even miss the bubbleshield or dualwielding even if I was miffed at first by their lack.
Reach will be the only Fps I'll enjoy after Halo 3/2/1.
 
soldat7 said:
But you've only played with them on a single map for a single day. Have some hope brother!
I'm talking about the handling and effectiveness of the vehicles in lieu of everything else. I'm more effective with a fucking pistol then a warthog. That's ridiculous.
 
I don't want to wait 5 seconds longer to start matches just to pick a loadout, I don't want to have to press Y to switch from my Banshee Plasma Cannons to the Fuel Rod Cannon, I don't want to fight a ridiculously overpowered Juggernaut, I don't want a Rocket Launcher with lock-on, I don't want to move slower than an ODST, I don't want static in my HUD or in the menus, I don't want to have to melee twice to kill someone (lol, two melee attacks do more damage that a stream of Assault Rifle bullets), I don't want to have to hold a button to use a Health Pack.
AwesomeSyrup said:
Here is a list of changes I think would really help.

-increase jump height for Spartans
-give vehicles more health, because in Invasion they get destroyed by anyone good in the final tier
-change loadouts in Invasion, you shouldn't spawn with a Pro Pipe, and Elites should get a Needle Rifle in the first tier
-you should spawn as soon as the timer stops beeping
-sprint time should be slightly increased
-armor lock should only be usable once before it has to recharge

also one major thing that needs to be changed is the speed of the vehicles, well at least the Warthog, Ghost, and Banshee. All 3 are too slow and get stuck by plasma grenades way too easily.
Agree with all of this. There's lots of little things that add up to a very frustrating experience.
Dirtbag said:
I'm talking about the handling and effectiveness of the vehicles in lieu of everything else. I'm more effective with a fucking pistol then a warthog. That's ridiculous.
Which reminds me: get the fuck rid of the turret overheating. Who the hell thought that was a good idea? Same with the Wraith turret. It's not that powerful to begin with. :\
vhfive said:
I just want my jump back.
Bungie please I want to be able to jump again.
Yeah. I feel crippled in Reach. :(
 
soldat7 said:
I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but serious question: were you old enough to play the original Combat Evolved when it came out?
As though that has anything to do with the quality of Bungie's games.

Of course you were trying to be rude, and of course that wasn't a serious question. If you're going to talk that way, at least own up to what you're doing.
 
Cuban Legend said:
It's a fact that in order to stay fresh, competitive, and increasingly enjoyable you have to evolve. Evolution is a natural progression of many aspects of life, why not the way you play a game series? Sure you could argue whether the changes from H3 to Reach aren't correct path of evolution, but that's opinion, at least the change Bungie has done so far has been carefully thought out.

They know how serious of a gaming series they are messing with and how large their varied fanbase is warrant that they are careful in who/what they change? Can't we trust them with that much? They made Halo CE, people... HALO CE. Nevar forget.

I have faith, whoever doesnt will always have Halo 3, evolving the way you play a a game is called doing it right.

And with that... You fellas up for some weekend Reach Beta? Skip the Saturday Morning Cartoons! :lol

Here's a question. Is Reach an evolution or revolution? How does the jump from Reach compare with previous jumps in gameplay in the Halo series?

One could argue that Reach represents the biggest change in gameplay that the series has ever seen and the jumps in gameplay from previous iterations don't compare to the scope of wide ranging changes and fresh ideas Reach brings to the table.

However, with each new Halo game is such a huge change warranted? Wanted? Needed? Would Reach be as successful if the changes were kept to a minimum?

Will Reach retain the strong growing Halo fanbase? Will it top the Live activity charts years from release?

So many questions, from so many angles. It'd be foolish to assume anything at this point and as fans we only have our own experiences with this current Beta to form our opinions on. A rough beta with unfinished game modes, bug and glitches and incomplete features. It's not even a representative portion of the final game with a fraction of a fraction of the content that the final game will have.

We have new experimental game modes, new weapons, new mechanics all wrapped into a package already busting with strong, favoured features.

Just from looking at the Beta you can tell that this is Bungie's final Halo game and not only that but that the game is made by passionate Halo fans. They are brining everything they can to the table. They are going all out, trying new things whilst trying to retain popular features and yet modernise them at the same time.

It's their final pitch and it's obvious they want to go out on a bang. They aren't doing anything half assed, the scope is wildly ambitious on one hand yet perfectly achievable on the other.

After this Beta is over, I'm going to purposely dislodge any preconceived notions about the gameplay flow, the mechanical balances and other issues. Some of the things confirmed that have been fixed from the Beta build already suggest drastic changes and hints from Bungie employees suggest more tweaks are incoming.

I think it's just too early to cement any sort of opinion on the game yet - the beta seems to be serving the goal of a true beta. It's not a demo, a sample of the dish to be served. We're testing things out and the experience is not representative of the final product.
 
Natakuu said:
Laser seems way less of a threat now as I survived a hit of it in my Banshee then killed the guy with no problem yesterday:lol
That's weird. I killed a brand new Wraith with it in one shot yesterday....

I don't mind the new Banshee, to be honest. Got a few killing sprees with it as well. I really, really hope the put in some kind of graphical bar in my HUD to tell me how much health I have on the thing. I just can't tell with the damage models alone. I mean, last night I had one that didn't get destroyed when it was bashed to hell and missing its wings, and then another one get destroyed by a single DMR shot when all it had wrong with it was a dent on top of it.
 
soldat7 said:
I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but serious question: were you old enough to play the original Combat Evolved when it came out?


I actually think your the one being immature asking questions like this and subtly trolling by saying stuff like "we will play the finest Halo yet, while you carry on Power Draining and Br'ing people".

Dax is displaying his point of view in a much better manner than you are.
 
Monocle said:
Bungie does seem to be losing sight of what makes Halo work. It's as though with Reach they're trying to forcibly mesh Halo's formula with those of other popular military shooters.
As long as Halo doesn't turn into a game where you die from 1-2 shots, it will never be quite like the other shooters. I don't know if it's fair to say that Bungie has lost site of what makes Halo, Halo. They wanted to try something new and different and this is it. It's not necessarily bad, but it's different, definitely.

monocle said:
Who really wanted to move slower, shoot slower, jump lower and remain more vulnerable when their shields were down?
What do you mean by saying we're more vunlerable when our shields our down? I'm not trying to attack you or anything, but shouldn't we be vulnerable if our shields are down?
 
Dani said:
Here's a question. Is Reach an evolution or revolution? How does the jump from Reach compare with previous jumps in gameplay in the Halo series?

One could argue that Reach represents the biggest change in gameplay that the series has ever seen and the jumps in gameplay from previous iterations don't compare to the scope of wide ranging changes and fresh ideas Reach brings to the table.

However, with each new Halo game is such a huge change warranted? Wanted? Needed? Would Reach be as successful if the changes were kept to a minimum?

Will Reach retain the strong growing Halo fanbase? Will it top the Live activity charts years from release?

So many questions, from so many angles. It'd be foolish to assume anything at this point and as fans we only have our own experiences with this current Beta to form our opinions on. A rough beta with unfinished game modes, bug and glitches and incomplete features. It's not even a representative portion of the final game with a fraction of a fraction of the content that the final game will have.

We have new experimental game modes, new weapons, new mechanics all wrapped into a package already busting with strong, favoured features.

Just from looking at the Beta you can tell that this is Bungie's final Halo game and not only that but that the game is made by passionate Halo fans. They are brining everything they can to the table. They are going all out, trying new things whilst trying to retain popular features and yet modernise them at the same time.

It's their final pitch and it's obvious they want to go out on a bang. They aren't doing anything half assed, the scope is wildly ambitious on one hand yet perfectly achievable on the other.

After this Beta is over, I'm going to purposely dislodge any preconceived notions about the gameplay flow, the mechanical balances and other issues. Some of the things confirmed that have been fixed from the Beta build already suggest drastic changes and hints from Bungie employees suggest more tweaks are incoming.

I think it's just too early to cement any sort of opinion on the game yet - the beta seems to be serving the goal of a true beta. It's not a demo, a sample of the dish to be served. We're testing things out and the experience is not representative of the final product.
Sure, Reach could just have been a carbon copy of Halo 3 with a new mode and some new weapons and it would still be hugely successful, are you attempting to argue that Bungie would have been better off phoning this one in?:lol Aside from that though, this is the kind of approach that brings about valid criticism. The people in this thread that are bitching about every little thing they can and then ending their rants with threats about how they're not even going to buy the game now or are 'rethinking their purchase' are being ridiculous. It's a beta ffs.
 
Butane123 said:
That's weird. I killed a brand new Wraith with it in one shot yesterday....

I don't mind the new Banshee, to be honest. Got a few killing sprees with it as well I really, really hope the put in some kind of graphical bar in my HUD to tell me how much health I have on the thing. I just can't tell with the damage models alone. I mean, last night I had one that didn't get destroyed when it was bashed to hell and missing its wings, and then another one get destroyed by a single DMR shot when all it had wrong with it was a dent on top of it.
Hmm, maybe I should have saved the video. I definitely got hit by a laser in the banshee and survived though. As for the wraith I definitely think it needs to be buffed a bit, it seems woefully outclassed by the scorpion tank.
 
Natakuu said:
Hmm, maybe I should have saved the video. I definitely got hit by a laser in the banshee and survived though. As for the wraith I definitely think it needs to be buffed a bit, it seems woefully outclassed by the scorpion tank.
Yeah. Once you get EMP'd, you're screwed in that thing. At least with the Scorpion you can still rotate the turret and shoot.
 
Dani said:
Here's a question. Is Reach an evolution or revolution? How does the jump from Reach compare with previous jumps in gameplay in the Halo series?

One could argue that Reach represents the biggest change in gameplay that the series has ever seen and the jumps in gameplay from previous iterations don't compare to the scope of wide ranging changes and fresh ideas Reach brings to the table.
Thing is, what really makes this game different from the rest of the series are not the top level changes. The most dramatic change was the addition of Armor Abilities and Load Outs, and even they feel like an evolution of Halo 3's Equipment. You can build a very Halo-feeling game with them. Ditto with with the targeting bloom. What Reach did was make changes to the foundation of Halo's gameplay that feel arbitrary. We're slower and jump much lower, and the melee system was overhauled after four games. Why? I've heard Bungie describe the changes, but not what they wanted to accomplish with them. I don't understand how significantly reduced mobility and that bizarre shield/melee system help the game at all. It's those kind of details that affect the experience much more than the big ticket changes, IMO.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Thing is, what really makes this game different from the rest of the series are not the top level changes. The most dramatic change was the addition of Armor Abilities and Load Outs, and even they feel like an evolution of Halo 3's Equipment. You can build a very Halo-feeling game with them. Ditto with with the targeting bloom. What Reach did was make changes to the foundation of Halo's gameplay that feel arbitrary. We're slower and jump much lower, and the melee system was overhauled after four games. Why? I've heard Bungie describe the changes, but not what they wanted to accomplish with them. I don't understand how significantly reduced mobility and that bizarre shield/melee system help the game at all. It's those kind of details that affect the experience much more than the big ticket changes, IMO.
I would assume the changes to melee are for everyone who complained about AR spawns and the constant ending in a simultaneous beatdown. They're trying to thinker with it to get away from that result some and the BWU showed that they are further fixing them to try to eliminate that result.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Thing is, what really makes this game different from the rest of the series are not the top level changes. The most dramatic change was the addition of Armor Abilities and Load Outs, and even they feel like an evolution of Halo 3's Equipment. You can build a very Halo-feeling game with them. Ditto with with the targeting bloom. What Reach did was make changes to the foundation of Halo's gameplay that feel arbitrary. We're slower and jump much lower, and the melee system was overhauled after four games. Why? I've heard Bungie describe the changes, but not what they wanted to accomplish with them. I don't understand how significantly reduced mobility and that bizarre shield/melee system help the game at all. It's those kind of details that affect the experience much more than the big ticket changes, IMO.

Agree fully, im actually quite happy with the high level changes, its the low level changes which make the gameplay frustrating for me.
 
vhfive said:
I just want my jump back.
Bungie please I want to be able to jump again.

Maybe they thought that everyone would just use jetpacks, so they just figured to make that the jump. :/

But seriously, you feel way too weighted down in Reach. And I'm not sure I am as in love with the weighted feel of the weapons as much as I thought I would be.

(I seriously feel like I haven't made any criticisms at all, which is just wasting Bungie's time :( )
 
so I guess I'm gold tier. Invasion later today, perhaps. After Iron Man.

And don't hate on Dax. I wasn't "old enough" to play Halo CE when it came out, but that was nine years ago. Age ought not to factor into whether you agree with what he's saying or not.
 
bobs99 ... said:
I actually think your the one being immature asking questions like this and subtly trolling by saying stuff like "we will play the finest Halo yet, while you carry on Power Draining and Br'ing people".

Dax is displaying his point of view in a much better manner than you are.

Monocle said:
As though that has anything to do with the quality of Bungie's games.

Of course you were trying to be rude, and of course that wasn't a serious question. If you're going to talk that way, at least own up to what you're doing.

The arguments here are nothing but circular and comments like "this is Bungie's finest multiplayer yet" are equally as valid as "Bungie has a lot of work to do before the fall."

Nothing anyone says will change HaloGAF minds on jump height, reticle bloom, armor abilities, or any number of the other changes that Bungie has very consciously made. You can argue that subjectively, you don't like the changes, but objectively, Halo needed changing. Every sequel should evolve and improve on its predecessor. I don't know why that's so hard for you people to understand. If you want to remain sad and close-minded about Reach, then go play Halo 3!
 
It seems pretty obvious to me that the movement and jump heights were nerfed to promote mobility enhancements of the armor abilities, kind of guiding a class of character and shaping their battle around the AA selected.
I don't like the net effect of such a change.
 
Deputy Moonman said:
As long as Halo doesn't turn into a game where you die from 1-2 shots, it will never be quite like the other shooters. I don't know if it's fair to say that Bungie has lost site of what makes Halo, Halo. They wanted to try something new and different and this is it. It's not necessarily bad, but it's different, definitely.
They want different? They should save it for their Next Big Thing. I don't want different Halo, I want more Halo, and the Reach beta offers both. My problem is with the different. Specifically, the different that screws with the well-balanced gameplay Halo is known for.

What do you mean by saying we're more vunlerable when our shields our down? I'm not trying to attack you or anything, but shouldn't we be vulnerable if our shields are down?
Bad phrasing, sorry. I meant to describe the increased delay for shield regeneration, and the reintroduction of a health system for Spartans. (I'm not wholly against that second thing, by the way.)
 
soldat7 said:
The arguments here are nothing but circular and comments like "this is Bungie's finest multiplayer yet" are equally as valid as "Bungie has a lot of work to do before the fall."

Nothing anyone says will change HaloGAF minds on jump height, reticle bloom, armor abilities, or any number of the other changes that Bungie has very consciously made. You can argue that subjectively, you don't like the changes, but objectively, Halo needed changing. Every sequel should evolve and improve on its predecessor. I don't know why that's so hard for you people to understand. If you want to remain sad and close-minded about Reach, then go play Halo 3!

I just want to see Reach evolve further into a better game.
 
Who really wanted to move slower, shoot slower, jump lower and remain more vulnerable when their shields were down?
I did. I thought Halo 3 was a clusterfuck. Far too much focus on ridiculous acrobatics. I love that how you move about the level now is dependent on your armor ability.
 
Dirtbag said:
I just want to see Reach evolve further into a better game.

And I think it will, it's just that there are certain 'fundamentals' that you guys hate that won't change. This is such a small vertical slice of the final experience, that I see little reason to be doom and gloom yet. I just hope it doesn't track like Halo 3, where the beta was more satisfying than the final product. :lol

Son of Godzilla said:
I did. I thought Halo 3 was a clusterfuck. Far too much focus on ridiculous acrobatics. I love that how you move about the level now is dependent on your armor ability.

Reach seems to reward the cautious more than the bold. Maybe this is why Reach is disappointing a portion of HaloGAF.
 
All the changes Reach need are small things that are very easily changeable. I hope Bungie just listens(and I imagine they will since they are one of the best when it comes to pleasing the fans), because those small changes can make a huge difference when they are all added together.
 
soldat7 said:
The arguments here are nothing but circular and comments like "this is Bungie's finest multiplayer yet" are equally as valid as "Bungie has a lot of work to do before the fall."

Nothing anyone says will change HaloGAF minds on jump height, reticle bloom, armor abilities, or any number of the other changes that Bungie has very consciously made. You can argue that subjectively, you don't like the changes, but objectively, Halo needed changing. Every sequel should evolve and improve on its predecessor. I don't know why that's so hard for you people to understand. If you want to remain sad and close-minded about Reach, then go play Halo 3!
You seem to be laboring under the delusion that change for its own sake is something to be desired, and that just because some of us dislike Reach's changes, we're pining for a stale clone of the previous Halo. Far from it. Speaking only for myself, I'm pleased with many of Reach's new features. I simply dislike most of the changes to Halo's core gameplay. If you can't recognize this as a reasonable position, I'm afraid we have nothing more to discuss.
 
Monocle said:
Bad phrasing, sorry. I meant to describe the increased delay for shield regeneration, and the reintroduction of a health system for Spartans. (I'm not wholly against that second thing, by the way.)
Yes, because having invisible health was much more transparent and easy to understand.
 
Kapura said:
Yes, because having invisible health was much more transparent and eaay to understand.
We both know invisible health doesn't affect gameplay to the extent that Halo:CE's and Reach's health systems do. In Halo 2 and 3, it's pretty easy to predict what will kill you, or to figure out why you died after the fact. Their health systems don't need to be transparent.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Thing is, what really makes this game different from the rest of the series are not the top level changes. The most dramatic change was the addition of Armor Abilities and Load Outs, and even they feel like an evolution of Halo 3's Equipment. You can build a very Halo-feeling game with them. Ditto with with the targeting bloom. What Reach did was make changes to the foundation of Halo's gameplay that feel arbitrary. We're slower and jump much lower, and the melee system was overhauled after four games. Why? I've heard Bungie describe the changes, but not what they wanted to accomplish with them. I don't understand how significantly reduced mobility and that bizarre shield/melee system help the game at all. It's those kind of details that affect the experience much more than the big ticket changes, IMO.

I fully agree with you about how the smaller fundamental changes bring about some of the biggest alterations to the feel of the game. I also echo your asking for explanations of not how things are changed but why. However, may I suggest a reason why I think we have yet to hear about such things?

This is just conjecture and speculation.

When making a game, the bigger the change, the harder it is to implement it. Sure you can tweak health and shields but making the outcome of a campaign level change is on a different scale and one is more likely to receive change than the other.

I think with Reach, all the foundations have been laid and put into place. No big features, at this point in development, can be radically altered. The small changes are all open though. To give an example, Bungie have revealed it's new tool for creating new game types. With the fundamentals in place the finished game may ship with a dozen multiplayer game types or two dozen.

The smaller features may be able to be tweaked for months ahead. Campaign and multiplayer don't always need to share the exact same mechanical restrictions, so decisions aren't all ironbound across the entire game. The game's engine doesn't need to be rewritten for small changes.

It would be hard to explain why something was changed, to explain what was intended by a change is the change itself isn't finalised.

I think we'll hear more from Bungie on the why, not just the how, as the game edges closer to release and the Beta is but a fond memory. Sometimes these changes and their explanations will come after the game has shipped or maybe we'll never find out.

The lack of a "Making of" documentary with the shipped game was initially disappointing but we have been told that such material may be forth coming by alternative means and maybe then we'll get the pertinent answers and explanations that hardcore fans ask and ponder about.

I also think someone else here might have hit the nail on the head. It seems to be true too from the media reports of the Beta. If casual fans still recognise Reach as featuring the traditional and familiar Halo formula, then explaining the changes won't be as high a priority that it would have been if the casual players didn't immediately click with the game.

Maybe I'm talking poop, it's always hard to draw conclusions about the bigger picture when you can only see a small section of it.
 
Monocle said:
We both know invisible health didn't affect gameplay to the extent that Halo:CE's and Reach's health systems do.
I would agree that having visible, semi-non-regenerating health does change the game in Reach. Not so much in CE. However, I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that any time we can see health is a huge plus. Invisible health creates ambiguity, which creates frustration. That is one problem I have with Reach vehicles: you don't know if you can fall to a sibgle bullet or four magazines of ammo.
 
Monocle said:
You seem to be laboring under the delusion that change for its own sake is something to be desired, and that just because some of us dislike Reach's changes, we're pining for a stale clone of the previous Halo. Far from it. Speaking only for myself, I'm pleased with many of Reach's new features. I simply dislike most of the changes to Halo's core gameplay. If you can't recognize this as a reasonable position, I'm afraid we have nothing more to discuss.

And I'm arguing that Halo's core gameplay is still there: Guns, Grenades, and Melee. Bungie has nipped and tucked each of these elements into a more streamlined and refined experience, IMO. I personally LOVE the changes to each of these, both in practice and principle. Guns feel strong again; no more rushing to the BR (Sage and probably Bertone are wizards). Grenades are powerful again; no more running over grenades with nary a scratch. And melee, broken as it may seem to some of you, feels equally balanced for both combatants. I agree that something doesn't quite feel right about it, but I'm not going to be sad if it remains the same.

The result of these changes is a more tight, compact, and better paced Halo experience. Jumping higher or running faster might appease some of you, but overall, I don't think it would be a change for the better.
 
Monocle said:
We both know invisible health didn't affect gameplay to the extent that Halo:CE's and Reach's health systems do. In Halo 2 and 3, it's pretty easy to predict what will kill you, or to figure out why you died after the fact. Their health systems don't need to be transparent.

I dont mind the changes to the health system, but with the slower nature of the game, and the fact that at low health a single nade can kill you, camping near health packs seems like the best option. This may not be fun a year from now and may lead to some predictable gameplay.

Kapura said:
I would agree that having visible, semi-non-regenerating health does change the game in Reach. Not so much in CE. However, I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that any time we can see health is a huge plus. Invisible health creates ambiguity, which creates frustration. That is one problem I have with Reach vehicles: you don't know if you can fall to a sibgle bullet or four magazines of ammo.

Agreed, you need to be able to get a better feel for vehicle health. It was better when you could just check your shields and predict when things where gonna go boom.
 
bobs99 ... said:
I dont mind the changes to the health system, but with the slower nature of the game, and the fact that at low health a single nade can kill you, camping near health packs seems like the best option.
I'm with you more or less. Or at least, I don't care about the health situation enough to throw a fit over it. I only mentioned Reach's updated health system to reinforce my point about Halo's core gameplay being altered.
 
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