• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Halo: Reach Beta Thread

Dax01 said:
Invasion is a far cry from being called "balanced." The vehicles, the loadouts, and the weapons available all need considerable modification.
Click to expand...

I hate to say it (because i Love it) but the pro pipe loadout needs to go. Hopefully theyll tweek invasion to put a tad more emphasis on vehicles.
 
Blergmeister said:
Does anybody know what to do to earn Technician medals. Highlighting it says "perform an incredible feet in matchmaking" but, as awesome as that sounds, it doesn't help at all. I have assists and technician at rank 3 or whatever with most everything else at 2 and I'm just wondering what incredible things I've been doing so much! :lol
Click to expand...

It's the "Kill with style" medals I believe, Oppurtunist, Melee, assisination, Close call, head Case(Best. Medal. Evar.), pull (even though it isn't working) and others.

BTW, are headshots bugged in the beta? I've killed with what I was sure was a headshot (one bullet after shields pop on a guy who had just spawned) but not gotten credit for it, or I got credit for oppurtunist with no headshot medal.
 
Dax01 said:
Invasion is a far cry from being called "balanced." The vehicles, the loadouts, and the weapons available all need considerable modification.
Click to expand...

Fortunately each of those is tuned via the playlists and game types system rather than requiring updates to the core game, so I'm not too worried about Invasion balance.
 
Pennybags said:
IIRC, Technician covers every medal not already tallied for other commendations.
Click to expand...

Ah ok, thanks! That makes sense. I was hoping it meant that I was doing super epic midair assassinations all over everyones face or something like that but whatever... I guess those count... so yeah... those! Not lucky ass beatdowns... or taking my friends kills Opportunists medals... but riding Scorpion missles to a jetpacking elite, assassinating him midair, and then raining down missiles from above. Thats what happened!
 
I really don't understand the new system on Vehicle health. I mean, I know how it works, but it doesn't seem right.

I figured when they said the health would be seperate, that the military vehicles would be just that, big, burly, strong and powerful vehicles; and when attacking them, you had a choice:

Either go for the driver or passengers to kill them, or spend a much longer time working on the vehicle itself until it would explode.

Unfortunately, the system now has pretty much determined that the quality of a vehicle is less than that of the player. This to me seems kind of ridiculous. you are more likely to kill the vehicle now than the player.
 
Alienshogun said:
If that's the case they need to remove the plasma pistol as a loadout too, they serve the same function.
Click to expand...
Joke post?
Lead Based Paint said:
I really don't understand the new system on Vehicle health. I mean, I know how it works, but it doesn't seem right.

I figured when they said the health would be seperate, that the military vehicles would be just that, big, burly, strong and powerful vehicles; and when attacking them, you had a choice:

Either go for the driver or passengers to kill them, or spend a much longer time working on the vehicle itself until it would explode.

Unfortunately, the system now has pretty much determined that the quality of a vehicle is less than that of the player. This to me seems kind of ridiculous. you are more likely to kill the vehicle now than the player.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I want the vehicle health system from H2 and H3 back, or give me a health bar for the vehicle.
 
Alienshogun said:
If that's the case they need to remove the plasma pistol as a loadout too, they serve the same function.
Click to expand...
in theory, not execution.

(And that's no knock against the pro-pipe. I think it's totally fair and a skill weapon even though its a one hit kill)


Lead Based Paint said:
I really don't understand the new system on Vehicle health. I mean, I know how it works, but it doesn't seem right.

I figured when they said the health would be seperate, that the military vehicles would be just that, big, burly, strong and powerful vehicles; and when attacking them, you had a choice:

Either go for the driver or passengers to kill them, or spend a much longer time working on the vehicle itself until it would explode.

Unfortunately, the system now has pretty much determined that the quality of a vehicle is less than that of the player. This to me seems kind of ridiculous. you are more likely to kill the vehicle now than the player.
Click to expand...
As it stands now, I'm not getting in anything other then a scorpian tank, and hope to god I don't have to try and drive it anywhere.
 
There is something horribly, horribly wrong here.

I went positive, tripled my usual score, and had a BLAST!

in a SWAT game.

I Halo 3 i would hide in a corner and cry when SWAT came up. :lol
 
Alienshogun said:
If that's the case they need to remove the plasma pistol as a loadout too, they serve the same function.
Click to expand...

This is a tough problem.

I was originally going to say that the pro pipe is much more dangerous to players than the PP, but as i was thinking about it, they both are pretty effective :lol

I don't know. It sure seems like the Pro pipe is faster and easier to aim than the plasma pistol.

I think total vehicle failure is a little much, maybe just cause the emp to drastically slow the vehicle down, but not disable it. Multiple emps can keep it relatively still.
 
Reduce the overall effect of EMP blasts on vehicles, and reduce the pro-pipe and PP ammo so you can only get a couple of shots of either off. I think it's important to have some kind of Anti-Vehicle loadout on both sides, but that loadout shouldn't just be a "win" button against vehicles like it is now.
 
Gui_PT said:
So, the PP deals about the same damage as a grenade? Did not know of this
Click to expand...


They both EMP, the pistol is more accurate and reliable than the grenade launcher and it fires faster.

If you remove the grenade launcher as a loadout and make it a contested spawn elites may well keep it away from spartans unbalancing the map making vehicles near unstoppable.

The balance issue would be in allowing elites to have an EMP weapon and not the spartans.
 
Alienshogun said:
They both EMP, the pistol is more accurate and reliable than the grenade launcher and it fires faster.

If you remove the grenade launcher as a loadout and make it a contested spawn elites may well keep it away from spartans unbalancing the map making vehicles near unstoppable.

The balance issue would be in allowing elites to have an EMP weapon and not the spartans.
Click to expand...


What other weapon comes with the GL loadout? I don't remember.
 
electricpirate said:
Reduce the overall effect of EMP blasts on vehicles, and reduce the pro-pipe and PP ammo so you can only get a couple of shots of either off. I think it's important to have some kind of Anti-Vehicle loadout on both sides, but that loadout shouldn't just be a "win" button against vehicles like it is now.
Click to expand...
PP ammo is fine the way it is.
Alienshogun said:
They both EMP, the pistol is more accurate and reliable than the grenade launcher and it fires faster.

If you remove the grenade launcher as a loadout and make it a contested spawn elites may well keep it away from spartans unbalancing the map making vehicles near unstoppable.

The balance issue would be in allowing elites to have an EMP weapon and not the spartans.
Click to expand...
You can't take out a vehicle with the plasma pistol. You can only temporarily immobilize it. Hell, even if I fire a charged PP shot at a warthog, there's no guarantee I'll be able to take it out because while approaching the vehicle I could still be killed by the turret.

You can immobilize a vehicle and take out most vehicles with a grenade launcher. They're two entirely different weapons. Just because one has to be taken out doesn't mean the other should.
 
Dax01 said:
PP ammo is fine the way it is.

This post is just...wrong. You can't take out a vehicle with the plasma pistol. You can only temporarily immobilize it. Hell, even if I fire a charged PP shot at a warthog, there's no guarantee I'll be able to take it out, because while approaching the vehicle I could still be killed by the turret.

You can immobilize a vehicle and take out most vehicles with a grenade launcher. They're two entirely different weapons. Just because one has to be taken out doesn't mean the other should.
Click to expand...


You are missing the point. The EMP function needs to remain. The grenade launcher can be more balanced or the vehicles can be made stronger. Nothing is stopping someone with a PP from EMPing a tank then grenade spamming it to the same effect a grenade launcher does, only with the PP you can grenade spam AND shoot.

The balance issue comes with allowing Elites to have EMP at spawn and not Spartans.
 
Alienshogun said:
You are missing the point. The EMP function needs to remain. The grenade launcher can be more balanced or the vehicles can be made stronger. Nothing is stopping someone with a PP from EMPing a tank then grenade spamming it to the same effect a grenade launcher does, only with the PP you can grenade spam AND shoot.

The balance issue comes with allowing Elites to have EMP at spawn and not Spartans.
Click to expand...
Many things are stopping that, actually. The PP shot travels slower, does not have a large effective range, does not double as an explosive device and does not have a player-controlled detonation. The grenade launcher has all of those things. You've got to lead PP shots more, and upon landing it, do not have an automatic series of explosive solvos to follow up with.

With a grenade launcher you just have to land your (rapidly moving) shot in the general direction of a vehicle, which can be accoplished from a great and safe distance, after which you can rain additional shots down from the same weapon to destroy it. Not so with the PP. The two are not in any way equivalent.
 
Alienshogun said:
You are missing the point. The EMP function needs to remain. The grenade launcher can be more balanced or the vehicles can be made stronger. Nothing is stopping someone with a PP from EMPing a tank then grenade spamming it to the same effect a grenade launcher does, only with the PP you can grenade spam AND shoot.

The balance issue comes with allowing Elites to have EMP at spawn and not Spartans.
Click to expand...
Despite how fragile vehicles are, you can't take out a tank with a couple of plasma grenades. To take out vehicles with the plasma pistol you have to get in close to either a)board the vehicle or b) be accurate enough with your grenades. Any other way and you'll probably be picked off by the guy who's in the vehicle. This isn't the case with the grenade launcher.

Besides, Spartans are given anti-vehicle weapons, and there'd be plenty of plasma pistols to pick up with all the dead Elites. Plus the Spartan's vehicles are protected until they come out of the barrier.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Many things are stopping that, actually. The PP shot travels slower, does not have a large effective range, does not double as an explosive device and does not have a player-controlled detonation. The grenade launcher has all of those things. You've got to lead PP shots more, and upon landing it, do not have an automatic series of explosive solvos to follow up with.

With a grenade launcher you just have to land your (rapidly moving) shot in the general direction of a vehicle, after which you can rain additional shots down from the same weapon to destroy it. Not so with the PP.
Click to expand...


That isn't the point of my post. It's merely an example of what could be done.

The effect of the EMP is.

Regardless, there are bonuses and drawbacks of both.
 
One thing I find interesting with the Grenade Launcher and vehicles is that the Prop Pipe guy can fire a nade and EMP burst it, disable a vehicle, reload another round, and fire it and reload again all in the time it takes a single EMP burst to run out of the vehicle that gets hits.

Unless you have a Warthog with someone on turret and a butt load of luck, if a Pro Pipe guy EMP's your vehicle, you have no chance to recover and get away. It's either bail out of the vehicle or stay inside and face almost certain death.

Tanks are pretty much the same, unless your turret is facing the Pro Pipe guy or you have an extra passenger with lots of luck, he can keep you locked down with EMP bursts long enough to blow you up with grenades and explosive rounds in between.
 
Dax01 said:
Despite how fragile vehicles are, you can't take out a tank with a couple of plasma grenades. To take out vehicles with the plasma pistol you have to get in close to either a)board the vehicle or b) be accurate enough with your grenades. Any other way and you'll probably be picked off by the guy who's in the vehicle. This isn't the case with the grenade launcher.

Besides, Spartans are given anti-vehicle weapons, and there'd be plenty of plasma pistols to pick up with all the dead Elites. Plus the Spartan's vehicles are protected until they come out of the barrier.
Click to expand...


That's the issue though, it's STILL a balance issue. Saying "they can just pick them up from dead elites." Doesn't cut it. The simple fact is the people saying the grenade launcher should be removed completely as a loadout are advocating for giving the Elites EMP at spawn and leaving the Spartans without EMP at spawn. That is imbalanced.
 
Dani said:
One thing I find interesting with the Grenade Launcher and vehicles is that the Prop Pipe guy can fire a nade and EMP burst it, disable a vehicle, reload another round, and fire it and reload again all in the time it takes a single EMP burst to run out of the vehicle that gets hits.

Unless you have a Warthog with someone on turret and a butt load of luck, if a Pro Pipe guy EMP's your vehicle, you have no chance to recover and get away. It's either bail out of the vehicle or stay inside and face almost certain death.

Tanks are pretty much the same, unless your turret is facing the Pro Pipe guy or you have an extra passenger with lots of luck, he can keep you locked down with EMP bursts long enough to blow you up with grenades and explosive rounds in between.
Click to expand...


The same thing happens with the overcharged plasma pistol. He can constantly keep your vehicle disabled leaving you vulnerable.
 
Alienshogun said:
That isn't the point of my post. It's merely an example of what could be done.

The effect of the EMP is.

Regardless, there are bonuses and drawbacks of both.
Click to expand...
More like the Pro Pipe has all the benefits of both and none of the drawbacks of the plasma pistol.
Alienshogun said:
That's the issue though, it's STILL a balance issue. Saying "they can just pick them up from dead elites." Doesn't cut it. The simple fact is the people saying the grenade launcher should be removed completely as a loadout are advocating for giving the Elites EMP at spawn and leaving the Spartans without EMP at spawn. That is imbalanced.
Click to expand...
It's not unbalanced because the plasma pistol is only really effective at a very limited range to follow through with the necessary ways to take out a vehicle.
Alienshogun said:
The same thing happens with the overcharged plasma pistol. He can constantly keep your vehicle disabled leaving you vulnerable.
Click to expand...
But in order to take out a guy if you only have a plasma pistol is to throw grenades or board him. That isn't so with the pro pipe. All your doing is keeping the vehicle immobilized with the plasma pistol, with the pro pipe your damaging it and keeping it immobilized.
 
Alienshogun said:
The same thing happens with the overcharged plasma pistol. He can constantly keep your vehicle disabled leaving you vulnerable.
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of the effects of the Plasm Pistol, it's a Halo staple that been balanced in every Halo game and it fits in nicely in Reach.

However the Plasma Pistol and Grenade Launcher in these situations do not in any way function the same. See the posts above for clarification.

You can dominate any vehicle, aerial or ground, with a single Grenade Launcher, no other weapon or nades. You simply cannot do that with a lone Plasma Pistol.
 
Dax01 said:
More like the Pro Pipe has all the benefits of both and none of the drawbacks of the plasma pistol.

It's not unbalanced because the plasma pistol is only really effective at a very limited range to follow through with the necessary ways to take out a vehicle.
Click to expand...


The grenade launcher does not track targets, the plasma pistol does. The elites have far more loadouts that include the plasma pistol, spartans only have 1 that includes the grenade launcher.

The grenade launcher is not as accurate at long range as you make it sound. It's probably as effective as an overcharge PP shot at the same range.

Again, the PP overcharge can just as easily be followed up with grenade spam still allowing the person using it to shoot.

I'm not saying nothing needs to be changed. That isn't the case. I think it definitely needs more balance. But the EMP effects and availability to both sides needs to be considered.
 
Alienshogun said:
The grenade launcher does not track targets, the plasma pistol does.
Click to expand...
Because the pro pipe doesn't need to, and the range of the tracking of the plasma pistol isn't that far. You have to be somewhat close to the vehicle for it to track.
The elites have far more loadouts that include the plasma pistol, spartans only have 1 that includes the grenade launcher.
Click to expand...
Holy hell, dude. Maybe it's that way because the pro pipe is way more effective against everything than the plasma pistol is?
The grenade launcher is not as accurate at long range as you make it sound. It's probably as effective as an overcharge PP shot at the same range.
Click to expand...
I can be way more effective with the pro pipe against vehicles at a much longer range than you can with the plasma pistol.
Again, the PP overcharge can just as easily be followed up with grenade spam still allowing the person using it to shoot.
Click to expand...
Again, so that means you have to be pretty close to the vehicle, which means that the occupants can still take you out.
 
Dax01 said:
Because the pro pipe doesn't need to, and the range of the tracking of the plasma pistol isn't that far. You have to be somewhat close to the vehicle for it to track.

Holy hell, dude. Maybe it's that way because the pro pipe is way more effective against everything than the plasma pistol is?

I can be way more effective with the pro pipe against vehicles at a much longer range than you can with the plasma pistol.

Again, so that means you have to be pretty close to the vehicle, which means that the occupants can still take you out.
Click to expand...


You are still missing the point. The killing potential isn't the point. The EMP and it's availability to both sides is.
 
Alienshogun said:
You are still missing the point. The killing potential isn't the point. The EMP and it's availability to both sides is.
Click to expand...
And your missing the point that I'm acknowledging that's what you're saying, but I'm saying that plasma pistols for Elites and none for Spartans isn't unbalanced because of the plasma pistol's effectiveness and how it functions.
 
Dax01 said:
And your missing the point that I'm acknowledging that's what you're saying, but I'm saying that plasma pistols for Elites and none for Spartans isn't unbalanced because of the plasma pistol's effectiveness and how it functions.
Click to expand...

It IS imbalanced because you are allowing one side to disable vehicles effectively from spawn and not the other, how are you not understanding that?
 
I read somewhere online (joystick I think) that the Reach beta would be playable from today May 14th to May 17th for Xbox Live Silver members. Does anyone know anything about this? Is it just for the US or worldwide? I just tried here (central Europe) but it won't let me.

Any infos?
 
Alienshogun said:
It IS imbalanced because you are allowing one side to disable vehicles effectively from spawn and not the other, how are you not understanding that?
Click to expand...
Spartans get anti-vehicle weapons already that spawn around their base. How are you not understanding that?
 
Dax01 said:
How are you not understanding that Spartans get anti-vehicle weapons already that spawn around their base. How are you not understanding that?
Click to expand...


That is far from the same thing. Those are not guaranteed to the spartans, a group of elites can just as effectively camp that spawn room and use those weapons.

Spawning with vehicle disabling weapons vs having to run to, pickup and guard the spawn point for vehicle disabling weapons is not balanced. Especially when most of the elite loadouts include the plasma pistol.

The plasma pistol is far from as ineffective as some of you are making it out to be.
 
Well this is potentially the most irritating argument I've ever read in a Halo thread.

Stop going round in fucking circles!
 
Alienshogun said:
It IS imbalanced because you are allowing one side to disable vehicles effectively from spawn and not the other, how are you not understanding that?
Click to expand...
One side also spawns with plasmas and the oher with frags. Your point?

The EMP function of the plasma pistol is carefully balanced and only usable in limited circumstances. Plus, the player sacrifices one of their weapon slots to carry a tool limited to those special circumstances. This is how Halo has always been able to maintaint its internal balance.

As for the asymmetry, there are asymmetric elements to the Invasion gametype because the gametypes are asymmetric. One side have the option of a plasma pistol load out does not mean they have an advantage, especially given the superior firepower the Spartans have on their side. Evaluating a single weapon without the context of the full weapons available to each side is pretty dumb.

You are barking up a strange, strange tree here.
 
Alienshogun said:
That is far from the same thing. Those are not guaranteed to the spartans, a group of elites can just as effectively camp that spawn room and use those weapons.

Spawning with vehicle disabling weapons vs having to run to, pickup and guard the spawn point for vehicle disabling weapons is not balanced. Especially when most of the elite loadouts include the plasma pistol.

The plasma pistol is far from as ineffective as some of you are making it out to be.
Click to expand...
If we go by your definition of balanced, then Invasion is inherently unbalanced because Elites have stronger shields than Spartans. And they have regenerating health. And they can move faster.

Oh no! Look at the unbalance!

I'm done with this.
 
This about Invasion? you can spawn with a PP as elites which is also an anti vehicle weapon in my eyes.

Pro Pipe needs to be on weapon racks like rockets and sniper rifles are for invasion, stops everyone spawning with them so easily.

I find that jumping onto a vehicle to hijack it or destroy its engine (wraith/scorpion) is now pointless because the thing will die so quickly by grenade rain or even bullet spray from all the fighting going on, they are way too fragile.

I use to love in halo 2 how the tank was a beast but once someone jumped onto the back it was all over, time to bail! of course you should be careful to now let that happen which was part of the balance of the vehicle.
 
Raide said:
Hopefully its also an Invasion map where Spartans attack the Covenant head on.:D
Click to expand...

I hope there are no more invasion maps. I just can't get into a 6vs6 gametype where there aren't, or might as well be no vehicles.
 
A slight tangent here:
The GL sucks at distance. It travels at a weird speed and is very hard to judge how far it has travelled. If it bounces off a corner, more often than not it will not go where you wanted. The GL can take out a vehicle at medium-short range. The trajectory and size of the emp blast as well as the speed of the vehicle are massive factors that make killing a vehicle at long range more luck than anything.

It takes getting used to in order to kill players at short range. If they are in your face the shots can very easily miss them by a few inches. A skilled player can emp kill another player with the GL but the range of the emp punishes the player who detonates too soon/late.

There is not a whole lot of ammo available for it on spawn anyway. It's... what, 8 shots? That is 8 kills if you hit every time which is often not the case. There is little or no splash damage from a normal round and multikills are only a possibility in the tightest of circumstances.

Nerf what you will but I don't see a whole lot wrong with it as is.
 
GhaleonEB said:
One side also spawns with plasmas and the oher with frags. Your point?

The EMP function of the plasma pistol is carefully balanced and only usable in limited circumstances. Plus, the player sacrifices one of their weapon slots to carry a tool limited to those special circumstances. This is how Halo has always been able to maintaint its internal balance.

As for the asymmetry, there are asymmetric elements to the Invasion gametype because the gametypes are asymmetric. One side have the option of a plasma pistol load out does not mean they have an advantage, especially given the superior firepower the Spartans have on their side.

You are barking up a strange, strange tree here.
Click to expand...

They are both grenades, neither has a special function that is akin to the EMP. The Plasma pistol is far more useful than just for disabling vehicles, there is a "noob combo" for a reason, but I won't go into that since it isn't my point.

You just scuttled your argument with your own statement. So apparently the grenade launcher is fine since the game is meant to be asymmetrical. It doesn't mean they have an advantage since bungie decided to give elites loadouts that mostly include plasma pistols and spartans 1 loadout that includes a grenade launcher.

See? Your logic goes both ways.
 
Alienshogun said:
It IS imbalanced because you are allowing one side to disable vehicles effectively from spawn and not the other, how are you not understanding that?
Click to expand...

Oh. My. God. You are reaching new levels of stupidity, even for HaloGAF. Welcome to my ignore list.
 
Dax01 said:
If we go by your definition of balanced, then Invasion is inherently unbalanced because Elites have stronger shields than Spartans. And they have regenerating health. And they can move faster.

Oh no! Look at the unbalance!

I'm done with this.
Click to expand...


So then the grenade launcher must be fine then since we aren't concerned with balance. Thus, you never had an argument in the first place.

By the way, bungie already stated the balance for the health/shields comes in the form of weaker weapons.
 
Oozer3993 said:
Oh. My. God. You are reaching new levels of stupidity, even for HaloGAF. Welcome to my ignore list.
Click to expand...


Obviously no loss to me if you can't even comprehend a discussion or even inject your own "logic."
 
Alienshogun said:
So then the grenade launcher must be fine then since we aren't concerned with balance. Thus, you never had an argument in the first place.

By the way, bungie already stated the balance for the health/shields comes in the form of weaker weapons.
Click to expand...
Please stop digging a hole. I am trying to get where you are coming from... but it ain't happening easily.
 
Hydranockz said:
Please stop digging a hole. I am trying to get where you are coming from... but it ain't happening easily.
Click to expand...


"Where I'm coming from" isn't hard to understand.


If one side SPAWNS with an EMP, BOTH sides should spawn with an EMP.

It's that simple.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Reach (nDreams) Review Thread
Review VR 
1
452
Romulus replied
Pragmata..... Reach for the Moon.
2
50
572
Giallo Corsa replied
Arknights: Endfield - Beta Test II | Preview Thread
Opinion 
30
2K
Trekinspace88 replied
Halo: Reach Brainrot
9
2K
Skifi28 replied
Halo 4 & Halo 5: Guardians Sales Reached Nearly 10 Million Units Worldwide each
Rumor 
44
3K
IFireflyl replied
Top Bottom