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Halo: Reach Beta Thread

Halo was in desperate need of change, and I think Reach is striking the perfect balance. It plays great, looks great, and feels fresh. Each weapon is useful, each armor ability is useful. You have to think about your health, and you have to be smarter about when to engage and when to not engage. The sound design is excellent, and grenades are fun to use again. All in all, Reach rocks.

Wren said:
But thats my point, melee isn't the better option in Reach at the moment (well unless you have sprint). If you have the drop on someone there is no reason for you to be in beat-down range. I don't understand why everyone continues to melee so much, grenades can now force attackers back and the starting weapons can even hold their own until you find replacements.

Melee is one of the three sacred tripod legs, so I can see why people would be upset. I'd personally like to see a bit more punch to the melee, but if we don't get it then I'm not going to be sad.
 
soldat7 said:
I've been playing Halo for a very long time and Powerhouse and Sword Base are not bad maps by any means. Both of these maps take a dump on many of the Halo 3 maps.

I have to disagree, those to maps lack visual flair, they "look" boring and I only have fun in them when playing ctf.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Okay. :p

Reach does a poor job providing feedback to the player, in a number of ways. When I get shot, I can't tell from what direction. This means I react poorly, which means I die more. In every other Halo game, turning to face (or flee) incoming fire became instinctual because the visual feedback upon receiving fire was clear, so this is no small thing. It often makes my death feel random.

When I melee or am on the receiving end, I have to look at the text in the corner to see what happened. The visual feedback is just messy and unclear. The shield delimiter - no matter how much shield is up, a melee with pop it and no more - is, for lack of a better word, stupid. It really breaks close quarters combat, and coupled with the already poor melee feedback and lack of clarity, it makes close combat feel like a complete mess. Melee fights are confusing, hectic and have what feels like arbitrary outcomes.

The shield delimiter applies to other weapons as well; it takes half a ream of needles to pop the shield, then another to pop the player beneath them. The entire idea of making the health/shield system so separated, no connection between them, disrupts combat greatly.

Some targeting reticules, such the pistol, are very hard to see in many situations; this not only makes aiming hard, but timing the rhythm of the shots difficult.

Grenade damage, and the way if blows out the sound. The fuck?

The feedback loops on the guns are entirely forgettable. Remember how great it feels to shoot the Halo 1 AR and pistol, or the Halo 2 and 3 BR? None of the guns in Reach are anywhere close. The pistol is apparently a beast, but it feels like shooting a cap gun. It's not fun to shoot in this game.

Of the two maps, I simply hate one of them. Sword Base is a poorly designed, arbitrary, bland and confusing mess of a map. I put it among the worst in the series.


Player movement feels more like Oblivion than Halo. Gone are the joyful, smooth jumps, the elegance of the strafe, the feeling of agility in close quarters movement. I feel like I have weights tied around my waist (or am constipated, as someone else said). I keep saying this, but it just does not feel anything like a Halo game to me. It's not the movement speed or the jump height, it's that they simply redid how the game plays. I don't know why and can't really articulate it. But playing Reach is simply not fun.

In all the previous Halo games, the simple act of leaping around and shooting was fun. I recall vividly my first day of playing the Halo 3 Beta, in the F&F kick off. The first thing everyone did was jump around shooting, getting a feel for the weapons. It was euphoric. Doing those things are not fun in this game. I don't feel like the game is a playground. It feels like work.

Most of the expansions to the game work well. Menus, much of the UI, the armor abilities, the audio, the graphics. Some of the abilities, like Sprint, are pretty great. Most of the stuff they added just works. But the underlying core is broken. Melee, jumping, shooting, moving. Important stuff, and none of them feel anything like Halo any more, and more importantly, they feel likes something that's not fun to play. The heart and soul of the game is just gone. I'm sitting here, after two days of playing the Beta, and I don't have a strong desire to play it again.

I feel like an ass ripping on the game so hard, but as a longtime fan of the series, and thus Bungie, I'm just crushingly disappointed. I'm clearly in the minority on this stuff, I haven't found anyone that's had as negative a reaction as myself. But that's where I am with the game. FWIW.

It's funny, I played the game on the same days as the Activision announcement. I read that, and my first thought was, "that's very un-Bungie-like." That's what the game feels like as well; this is very un-Bungie-like to me. :(

I said this a few pages back also. What a terrible fucking map Sword Base is. Cannot believe professionals made that bland piece of shit. And I bet it will come up a ton of times in the final game.
 
Lead Farmer said:
I have to disagree, those to maps lack visual flair, they "look" boring and I only have fun in them when playing ctf.

Keep in mind that the maps are ripped straight from the campaign...they can't give us the really crazy-looking maps because that would spoil the surprise! Boneyard looks to be pretty darn interesting, however.

LQX said:
I said this a few pages back also. What a terrible fucking map Sword Base is. Cannot believe professionals made that bland piece of shit. And I bet it will come up a ton of times in the final game.

I am very picky with my maps (HATEHATEHATE Construct and High Ground, and Valhalla is meh (never got over the lack of Coag/Blood Gulch maybe), for example), but Sword Base is a really good map. I don't see what the problem is with it. Maybe you're just sick of Covey Slayer? :)
 
soldat7 said:
Halo was in desperate need of change, and I think Reach is striking the perfect balance. It plays great, looks great, and feels fresh. Each weapon is useful, each armor ability is useful. You have to think about your health, and you have to be smarter about when to engage and when to not engage. The sound design is excellent, and grenades are fun to use again. All in all, Reach rocks.



Melee is one of the three sacred tripod legs, so I can see why people would be upset. I'd personally like to see a bit more punch to the melee, but if we don't get it then I'm not going to be sad.

I fall in line with this set. Just need to get used to when to use certain weapons.
 
JambiBum said:
PleaseBungie.png


:lol :lol




I couldn't resist, sorry. Although I do find it ridiculous as I love this melee system. Not trying to bash you or anything like that. Promise.
He's right, though. :P
 
Any official word on how all the military ranks look like?

I havent seen anything but variations of the one we started with yet.
 
The only real issue I have with Reach so far, is the weapon sandbox still feels a little weird. It did need a complete overhaul as it was quite dreadful by the time Halo 3 came around, but in the face of such drastic change I think it still needs quite a bit more tweaking. The AR still feels like a pathetically useless weapon, but the aiming reticule on the pistol makes it hard for me to aim with it. Pretty much every gun feels kind of off in a way, like they're all stiff and awkward to fire.
 
Ten-Song said:
The only real issue I have with Reach so far, is the weapon sandbox still feels a little weird. It did need a complete overhaul as it was quite dreadful by the time Halo 3 came around, but in the face of such drastic change I think it still needs quite a bit more tweaking. The AR still feels like a pathetically useless weapon, but the aiming reticule on the pistol makes it hard for me to aim with it. Pretty much every gun feels kind of off in a way, like they're all stiff and awkward to fire.

They're just going to take practice to get used to. I think the weapons are the biggest and best change in Reach. I don't want weapons that act the same as in times past, I want new guns, new behaviors, new strategies. Sure, tweaking is needed here and there, but Reach is delivering so far in the weapons department. There's not a single weapon that I feel leaves me at a disadvantage. In every other Halo game, I pass weapons up all the time. Not so in Reach. If it's in the game, it's useful. Thank goodness the BR is gone; after 6 years with that thing, I'm glad to try something new.
 
Yeah Assault Rifle needs to be beefed up a bit. DMR seems fine the way it is, Magnum crosshair needs fixing (well all guns need a darker/easier to see crosshair).
 
GhaleonEB said:
I feel like an ass ripping on the game so hard, but as a longtime fan of the series, and thus Bungie, I'm just crushingly disappointed. I'm clearly in the minority on this stuff, I haven't found anyone that's had as negative a reaction as myself. But that's where I am with the game. FWIW.


I sure as hell hope you aren't in the minority, because I'm right there with you man. This is NOT Halo. This looks like Halo, smells like Halo, but it certainly doesn't FEEL like Halo.

Halo needs to feel like I can Master Chief it. A sort of catch all term meaning that I can take a weapon and beast out with it. There are no weapons you can beast out with, let alone feel any consistency with.

Crushing disappointment is right man. I was so disappointed that I went back to play Halo 3 to make sure I wasn't insane or remembering it wrong, but nope, this game just doesn't have that feel anymore.
 
soldat7 said:
Melee is one of the three sacred tripod legs, so I can see why people would be upset. I'd personally like to see a bit more punch to the melee, but if we don't get it then I'm not going to be sad.

I know it's meaningless, but after ~11 hours with this beta my melee kill % is exactly the same as my H3 one. Headshot weapons and nades doubled, AR halved.
 
Wren said:
But thats my point, melee isn't the better option in Reach at the moment (well unless you have sprint). If you have the drop on someone there is no reason for you to be in beat-down range. I don't understand why everyone continues to melee so much, grenades can now force attackers back and the starting weapons can even hold their own until you find replacements.


If it's not the better option in a close quarters battle, why is it even in there then? It makes no sense to have melee if it's ineffective at its SOLE purpose.
 
after playing for about 6 hours I've come to the conclusion that this game is awesome. Haters gonna hate. The only two problems I have with it are balancing issues, but other than that its fine.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Okay. :p

Reach does a poor job providing feedback to the player, in a number of ways. When I get shot, I can't tell from what direction. This means I react poorly, which means I die more. In every other Halo game, turning to face (or flee) incoming fire became instinctual because the visual feedback upon receiving fire was clear, so this is no small thing. It often makes my death feel random.

When I melee or am on the receiving end, I have to look at the text in the corner to see what happened. The visual feedback is just messy and unclear. The shield delimiter - no matter how much shield is up, a melee with pop it and no more - is, for lack of a better word, stupid. It really breaks close quarters combat, and coupled with the already poor melee feedback and lack of clarity, it makes close combat feel like a complete mess. Melee fights are confusing, hectic and have what feels like arbitrary outcomes.

The shield delimiter applies to other weapons as well; it takes half a ream of needles to pop the shield, then another to pop the player beneath them. The entire idea of making the health/shield system so separated, no connection between them, disrupts combat greatly.

Some targeting reticules, such the pistol, are very hard to see in many situations; this not only makes aiming hard, but timing the rhythm of the shots difficult.

Grenade damage, and the way if blows out the sound. The fuck?

The feedback loops on the guns are entirely forgettable. Remember how great it feels to shoot the Halo 1 AR and pistol, or the Halo 2 and 3 BR? None of the guns in Reach are anywhere close. The pistol is apparently a beast, but it feels like shooting a cap gun. It's not fun to shoot in this game.

Of the two maps, I simply hate one of them. Sword Base is a poorly designed, arbitrary, bland and confusing mess of a map. I put it among the worst in the series.

Player movement feels more like Oblivion than Halo. Gone are the joyful, smooth jumps, the elegance of the strafe, the feeling of agility in close quarters movement. I feel like I have weights tied around my waist (or am constipated, as someone else said). I keep saying this, but it just does not feel anything like a Halo game to me. It's not the movement speed or the jump height, it's that they simply redid how the game plays. I don't know why and can't really articulate it. But playing Reach is simply not fun.

In all the previous Halo games, the simple act of leaping around and shooting was fun. I recall vividly my first day of playing the Halo 3 Beta, in the F&F kick off. The first thing everyone did was jump around shooting, getting a feel for the weapons. It was euphoric. Doing those things are not fun in this game. I don't feel like the game is a playground. It feels like work.

Most of the expansions to the game work well. Menus, much of the UI, the armor abilities, the audio, the graphics. Some of the abilities, like Sprint, are pretty great. Most of the stuff they added just works. But the underlying core is broken. Melee, jumping, shooting, moving. Important stuff, and none of them feel anything like Halo any more, and more importantly, they feel likes something that's not fun to play. The heart and soul of the game is just gone. I'm sitting here, after two days of playing the Beta, and I don't have a strong desire to play it again.

I feel like an ass ripping on the game so hard, but as a longtime fan of the series, and thus Bungie, I'm just crushingly disappointed. I'm clearly in the minority on this stuff, I haven't found anyone that's had as negative a reaction as myself. But that's where I am with the game. FWIW.

It's funny, I played the game on the same days as the Activision announcement. I read that, and my first thought was, "that's very un-Bungie-like." That's what the game feels like as well; this is very un-Bungie-like to me. :(

Bolded what I have to agree with. To be the jump height of the elites feels a lot more natural in terms of how it was in Halo 3. I have to understand that this isn't Halo 3, and is more of a branching path than an evolution of that, and I think others should too.

And I HATE the reticle and how it enlarges after every shot. Also, the lack of player feedback is annoying. The arrows showing where you are being shot from are tiny as is the shield bar and health bar.

I don't know if anyone else felt this, but in Halo 3 I always knew how much shield I had left almost instinctively and when shots are hitting me and where they're coming from. I never know without looking in Reach.
 
The only thing i dont like about Sword Base is the 2nd to 3rd floor transition. its so confusing to get to the 3rd floor sometimes.

Grenades are over powered.

Shield + Melee system is more than frustrating.

I really like the game, i cant wait to be able to chose my gametype instead of playing modes i dont want to play.
 
Valru said:
Sword Base is great and so is the melee in reach

halo 3 sucks deal wit it. :lol

it's just a little inconsistent, most of it stems from the weaker guns though - the flow of a typical battle isn't playing out the same as in the previous halos - usually you weaken the shields then bam! But it doesn't work too well right now. This game feels like it was designed with grand battles in mind instead of cqc and I'll reserve complete judgement for when invasion slayer launches... But still I wish it'd scale better otherwise what's the point of the aren if it's a crapshoot?
 
Phatcorns said:
I sure as hell hope you aren't in the minority, because I'm right there with you man. This is NOT Halo. This looks like Halo, smells like Halo, but it certainly doesn't FEEL like Halo.

Halo needs to feel like I can Master Chief it. A sort of catch all term meaning that I can take a weapon and beast out with it. There are no weapons you can beast out with, let alone feel any consistency with.

Crushing disappointment is right man. I was so disappointed that I went back to play Halo 3 to make sure I wasn't insane or remembering it wrong, but nope, this game just doesn't have that feel anymore.

Maybe, but people complained that Halo 3 didnt feel like Halo at times, especially back in the beta. So far i've seen people do some crazy stuff with the DMR and the Needle Rifle...but i'm one of the players thats glad no one standard weapon is used 24/7 over everything else.

EDIT: Arent there arrows that appear on screen when shot?
 
Valru said:
Sword Base is great and so is the melee in reach

halo 3 sucks deal wit it. :lol
wPBeJ.png
 
I'm so ridiculously sick of sword base already. I just wish that there was a sniper on powerhouse.

I got an overkill and the fourth kill was the winning kill, but B.net won't show that i got it :(
 
Impressions by a non-Halo guy: (Ignore at own discretion)

I only wanted to test the beta because of how fun Invasion looks. (It's very much like Rush from BF:BC2 which I enjoy very much.)

The game plays very different from other FPS games. And I can't say it feels better to me.
This is based on a limited amount of time spent in the game. I haven't even got a chance to play Invasion yet.

I only got into the 8 player FFA stuff or the 4vs4 which I don't think is a very fun amount of player.

What I'm missing: No shouldering of weapon to decrease reticule size. I think the AR has a too big crosshair. I like to play medium range, and it seems like I need to be quite up in the enemies face when using it. The pistol with its scope is better. But the problem still persists: I don't want to scope, I just want to shoulder it to get a smaller scope without losing out on peripheral vision.

Playing as Elite is more fun to me, because they are faster. I think the Spartans are overall too slow. Maybe both could get a bump so the discrepancy is still there but everything is faster?

I find the map selection in the beta quite bad. But then again, I haven't played Invasion which looks very fun. Is it not unlocked yet? All I get is this 8 player stuff.

That I'm unable to select starting gear is a bummer. Given that MW2 and BF:BC2 both allow that. (I can understand their reasoning as to not create FOTM setups.)

And I'm not always losing either! I mainly am though, so that gives my impression a certain bias.
For comparison, other online-shooters I like from the feel: Uncharted 2, Quake 3, Modern Warfare 2, Team Fortress 2 & Battlefield: Bad Company 2
 
I got to play a few rounds, it's good.
I didn't play that much Halo 3 online so aside from the class abilities I don't see a huge difference, but it's still tons o' fun. My fave is the rocket pack even though it usually leads to me being shot out of the air.
My favorite thing is that it allows you to look for polite people in matchmaking. Hopefully that actually works, that would be really nice.
 
Sai-kun said:
Plasma Launcher is now my second most used weapon, after Beatdowns. :lol :lol :lol I'm in love.
:lol That's absurd.

The only thing i dont like about Sword Base is the 2nd to 3rd floor transition. its so confusing to get to the 3rd floor sometimes.
Ya that section where you have to go up the middle isn't nearly clear enough. Too trained to make loopty loops. I think the attacking team's spawn in 1F is really confusing for people too. You are supposed to drop down, and if you don't and just cross the bridge you end up in nowheresville.

But whatever, I friggin love Sword Base.
 
You guys want the grenades nerfed? Granted they are annoying but I don't think they are any more powerful than in Halo 3, and those were one hit kill grenades.

GodfatherX said:
can somebody please explain how friends of friends works?

It's friends and family. They had a ton of spare codes that they gave to some videogame websites and then posted the rest on bungie.net. Most codes have already been taken and now it's just the waiting game for the ODSTers.
 
reading through these negative and apathetic impressions brings back a torrent of 2004-05 memories. now you all can feel a halo: ce lover's pain.
 
Son of Godzilla said:
:lol That's absurd.

Absolutely not absurd! If I get sword base and it's not Swat, pick the Jetpack, go fly up/down and grab it, then hide a couple second, and proceed to own everything :D
 
UltimaPooh said:
You guys want the grenades nerfed? Granted they are annoying but I don't think they are any more powerful than in Halo 3, and those were one hit kill grenades.



It's friends and family. They had a ton of spare codes that they gave to some videogame websites and then posted the rest on bungie.net. Most codes have already been taken and now it's just the waiting game for the ODSTers.
yeah i already have my friends and family code and been playing...i was referrencing the whole adding Halogafbeta2 to your friends to be able to join other gafers via the friends of friends feature
 
bandresen said:
Impressions by a non-Halo guy: (Ignore at own discretion)

I only wanted to test the beta because of how fun Invasion looks. (It's very much like Rush from BF:BC2 which I enjoy very much.)

The game plays very different from other FPS games. And I can't say it feels better to me.
This is based on a limited amount of time spent in the game. I haven't even got a chance to play Invasion yet.

I only got into the 8 player FFA stuff or the 4vs4 which I don't think is a very fun amount of player.

What I'm missing: No shouldering of weapon to decrease reticule size. I think the AR has a too big crosshair. I like to play medium range, and it seems like I need to be quite up in the enemies face when using it. The pistol with its scope is better. But the problem still persists: I don't want to scope, I just want to shoulder it to get a smaller scope without losing out on peripheral vision.

Playing as Elite is more fun to me, because they are faster. I think the Spartans are overall too slow. Maybe both could get a bump so the discrepancy is still there but everything is faster?

I find the map selection in the beta quite bad. But then again, I haven't played Invasion which looks very fun. Is it not unlocked yet? All I get is this 8 player stuff.

That I'm unable to select starting gear is a bummer. Given that MW2 and BF:BC2 both allow that. (I can understand their reasoning as to not create FOTM setups.)

And I'm not always losing either! I mainly am though, so that gives my impression a certain bias.
For comparison, other online-shooters I like from the feel: Uncharted 2, Quake 3, Modern Warfare 2, Team Fortress 2 & Battlefield: Bad Company 2

That is a big problem that I didn't realize before. There is no shouldering, so the only thing you can do is fire slower. This is just so silly. I'm going to bed.
 
Phatcorns said:
I sure as hell hope you aren't in the minority, because I'm right there with you man. This is NOT Halo. This looks like Halo, smells like Halo, but it certainly doesn't FEEL like Halo.

Halo needs to feel like I can Master Chief it. A sort of catch all term meaning that I can take a weapon and beast out with it. There are no weapons you can beast out with, let alone feel any consistency with.

Crushing disappointment is right man. I was so disappointed that I went back to play Halo 3 to make sure I wasn't insane or remembering it wrong, but nope, this game just doesn't have that feel anymore.

YOU ARE NOT MASTER CHIEF. Get that through your head and you will enjoy the game.



Do want the pistol reticule to at least be darker though. Don't understand why it's so light. Practically disappears at times.
 
I really don't know what it is but I am just not good at this game. :lol

Was okay at H3 but really am just getting worked over and over again playing this. Also right now in the Beta being so few players I can tell it is having a hard time finding players that are on the same skill level as me...I might just be the worst player in Reach right now. :lol
 
Plywood said:
Never forget, Shotty-Snipers.
OMG I remember now. Ferrex got really mad at the shotty-snipers complains. However, the complains were just stupid. An obvious mistake had been made with the playlist coefficients and Bungie had already promised to fix it however SDF jumped on the hate bandwagon. I don't think any of us hoping for changes on Reach is bashing the game. I actually like it now, and I know I will love it in the future. I don't want to kill the enthusiasm of anybody. I am just trying to steer things towards my liking, but if Bungie doesn't change anything, I know I would still play it a lot.
 
Phatcorns said:
If it's not the better option in a close quarters battle, why is it even in there then? It makes no sense to have melee if it's ineffective at its SOLE purpose.

I don't know I've seen some pretty awesome uses for melee so far.
-Act like your going for melee then bait them into hitting armor lock, follow it up with a quick pop to the jaw.
-Sprint + double melee, as annoying as it is, is pretty much the equivalent of getting hit by a freight train at the moment.
-Stealth + assassination or even double melee if your spotted.

Don't get me wrong it still has its place as a close quarters weapon its just how you use it has changed. I seem find that nine times out of ten if your meleeing someone head on when they still have shields chances are there was probably a better option available.
 
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