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[soldat7]

At first I thought the graphical improvement was basically negligible. After playing some H3, I retracted that stance and changed it to a huge improvement. It's even better than the theater mode shots people post of Halo 3.

I agree. Reach is a graphical monster, especially when you consider the engine's ability to save/replay films, and 4-player split-screen. Just look at Overlook, you turds.

 

[Kapura]

Uh...

Spoiler

It is impossible to get that stat anywhere close to 100%

Even in Retail? I'm pretty sure we can assume that we can't fill the chest with such limited gametypes. For instance, you can't get infection or assault medals.

EDIT: @Ram: HIGH FIVE

*simultaneous beatdowns*

 

[Hydranockz]

Uh...

Spoiler

It is impossible to get that stat anywhere close to 100%

Do you mean now or even at full release?

 

[Louis Wu]

Ugh my friend comes over and just keeps trashing on the game and talks about how Halo 3 and the godly BR is so much better. >_< He even says the graphics look better in Halo 3, which just amazes me. He says it'll be the World at War of the Halo series.

Show him this pic and ask him if H3 still looks better:

http://files.bungie.org/misc/riceatron_ComparisonofElite.jpg

(I didn't make it, Riceatron did. I just thought it was cool, and rehosted it because it's friggin' HUGE.)

But the enemy still glows when I am shooting at him. I am confused.

Watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy_YOks5ahA

The whole thing is pretty useful, but for this discussion, watch the section starting at 1:20 (first four shots, pop shield, take a breath) You can VERY CLEARLY see the shield pop in all of his examples - and the next headshot kills.

So flag return radius....
Was this intentional?
Also does armor locking over a flag keep the return timer going? Because thats bullshit if its the case. No one should be able to lock up over a flag and continue to return it.

Nothing makes me smile more in a game of Reach than watching someone armor lock over a flag, and running in, grabbing the flag, and heading off. They look so... pitiful frozen there. :lol

Sort of a Maginot Line, in Spartan form.

I find it hilarious that folks bitched and bitched about the flag radius being 3m in Halo 3 ("You can hide behind a rock and return it!") and then Bungie reduces it to "you have to be sitting on the flag to return it" and other folks - not necessarily Dirtbag here, but I've seen plenty of complaints - complain that you have to be totally exposed to return a flag. Bungie can't win.

 

[Magni]

One thing that makes me happy is that from Urk's responses to the melee complaints is that they don't seem to be budging on it, bravo.

Yeah, I'm glad they're not budging. I actually asked this early on in Halo 3's reign, for melee to do 45 damage instead of 70 (in Halo 3 MP, players have 115 HP, 70 for shields and 45 for health), in other words, for melee to kill only shieldless players. Great

 

[Kapura]

Pardon my dumb / ignorant question, but is there anyway to pre-DL the Beta in prep for it being opened up for us commoners w/ ODST tomorrow?

Thanks in advance

Nope. But I'm guessing (hoping) the Xbox Live servers will be able to handle the traffic pretty well. Good luck tomorrow!

 

[Shake Appeal]

Shake Appeal's Definitive List of Things That in His Opinion Should Be Changed:

1. Grenade radius. Actual damage when they land on target is fine, it's the ridiculous distance they can get you from that bugs me, and that makes them cheap, especially as a wild, barely-aimed "fuck you" in a contest someone has already lost.
2. Hammer lunge. Pretty silly. When combined with Sprint, this is especially cheap and tacky.
3. Armour Lock. Remove the EMP effect when melee'd, as people are abusing it for instant shield drops in melee contests. Also, please address just when the effect begins and ends, as it doesn't seem to correspond to the animations.
4. Plasma Launcher. When you told me this is a gun that rapidly fires up to four homing plasma grenades, I wondered what the catch would be. Turns out there is no catch. urk calls this "the comedy gun". I guess he means it's hilariously cheap.

Ta-da.

Everything else is grade-A golden.

I find it hilarious that folks bitched and bitched about the flag radius being 3m in Halo 3 ("You can hide behind a rock and return it!") and then Bungie reduces it to "you have to be sitting on the flag to return it" and other folks - not necessarily Dirtbag here, but I've seen plenty of complaints - complain that you have to be totally exposed to return a flag. Bungie can't win.

"Middle ground."

 

[pahamrick]

Am I the only person who thinks you shouldn't be able to punch THROUGH a shield? I mean, I get Spartans are a lot stronger than the normal marine, but we're not talking Superman strong.

 

[TommyT]

No I'm not a "joke character". My avatar just means that even Link gets to enjoy a little ass every now and then. Saria's Song = booty call.



We're saying that it's messed up for a disadvantage to almost automatically mean you're screwed. In Halo 3, it was MUCH easier to use the environment and skill to snake out of a unequal situation. In Reach, it's unfair because you're disadvantage DETERMINES the outcome of the fight. Are you saying the variability of a player's skill should take a backseat to the predisposed tier of the weapon and melee system? If you guys are, then mistake.

IMO, it shouldn't.

Quick question for everyone here. Has EVERYONE that has been at a disadvantage during a fight lost. I mean seriously, no one has EVER won, used the environment to get away, or your AA,etc right... right?

This argument is no different then complaining why a sniper can 1-shot you from across the map, but your shotgun wont hit him when you shoot at him from across the map. You can have all the skill in the world but if your dumbass is running out in the open and a sniper picks you off it's the games fault because you were at a disadvantage with the range of weapon you have!?

 

[Apath]

In Halo 3, it was MUCH easier to use the environment and skill to snake out of a unequal situation.

Translation: In Halo 3 there are all sorts of variables that come into play.

In Reach, it's unfair because you're disadvantage DETERMINES the outcome of the fight.

Translation: There is only one possible outcome.

Do you really not see the flaw in this line of thinking?

 

[Insaniac]

This is the last damn time I say this. You are at a DISADVANTAGE. You are not supposed to win the battle. You are not supposed to have a mutual kill. If you win the battle then you either out skill your opponent in the situation by catching them off guard, etc., or your opponent is just bad. An average player will win a situation like the one you are describing almost every time.

Okay, lets say this, lets say I am more skilled than the opponent.

For this example my disadvantage is not having time to reload and encountering an enemy, and not having enough bullets to break their shields.

Being at a disadvantage doesn't mean I'm supposed to lose the battle. It means the battle is more difficult for me. Even if I can strafe and dodge some of the opponents shots, the extra time required to reload and break the enemies shields amplifies my disadvantage to a point which I FEEL is too great when you consider that initially, having less bullets in the magazine is not a HUGE disadvantage.

 

[Princess Carl]

One thing that makes me happy is that from Urk's responses to the melee complaints is that they don't seem to be budging on it, bravo.

Oh come on man. You really don't see anything wrong with how fast it is?

I want more than the option of spamming melee when someone gets unexpectedly close.

I really shouldn't get into to this but 2 punches should not be better and more effective than an entire clip of bullets in every close range situation.

 

[TommyT]

Translation: In Halo 3 there are all sorts of variables that come into play.

Translation: There is only one possible outcome.

Do you really not see the flaw in this line of thinking?

Logic has no place in this discussion! How dare you.

:lol

 

[Magni]

I find it hilarious that folks bitched and bitched about the flag radius being 3m in Halo 3 ("You can hide behind a rock and return it!") and then Bungie reduces it to "you have to be sitting on the flag to return it" and other folks - not necessarily Dirtbag here, but I've seen plenty of complaints - complain that you have to be totally exposed to return a flag. Bungie can't win.

I'd be alright with the flag radius if it were touch return. Right now you can't even move when you're on the flag, coupled with the frags' overpoweredness..

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Quick question for everyone here. Has EVERYONE that has been at a disadvantage during a fight lost. I mean seriously, no one has EVER won, used the environment to get away, or your AA,etc right... right?

This argument is no different then complaining why a sniper can 1-shot you from across the map, but your shotgun wont hit him when you shoot at him from across the map.

Using absolutes to back-up your argument doesn't make sense?

And no, it's nothing like that.

Okay, lets say this, lets say I am more skilled than the opponent.

For this example my disadvantage is not having time to reload and encountering an enemy, and not having enough bullets to break their shields.

Being at a disadvantage doesn't mean I'm supposed to lose the battle. It means the battle is more difficult for me. Even if I can strafe and dodge some of the opponents shots, the extra time required to reload and break the enemies shields amplifies my disadvantage to a point which I FEEL is too great when you consider that initially, having less bullets in the magazine is not a HUGE disadvantage.

.

Oh come on man. You really don't see anything wrong with how fast it is?

I want more than the option of spamming melee when someone gets unexpectedly close.

I really shouldn't get into to this but 2 punches should not be better and more effective than an entire clip of bullets in every close range situation.

.

And melee time should be equal to the time it takes to switch weapons (at least to your pistol) and the time it takes to reload.

 

[TommyT]

Okay, lets say this, lets say I am more skilled than the opponent.

For this example my disadvantage is not having time to reload and encountering an enemy, and not having enough bullets to break their shields.

Being at a disadvantage doesn't mean I'm supposed to lose the battle. It means the battle is more difficult for me. Even if I can strafe and dodge some of the opponents shots, the extra time required to reload and break the enemies shields amplifies my disadvantage to a point which I FEEL is too great when you consider that initially, having less bullets in the magazine is not a HUGE disadvantage.

ROFL you can use that EXACT same scenario in either game :lol

 

[JambiBum]

No I'm not a "joke character". My avatar just means that even Link gets to enjoy a little ass every now and then. Saria's Song = booty call.



We're saying that it's messed up for a disadvantage to almost automatically mean you're screwed. In Halo 3, it was MUCH easier to use the environment and skill to snake out of a unequal situation. In Reach, it's unfair because you're disadvantage DETERMINES the outcome of the fight. Are you saying the variability of a player's skill should take a backseat to the predisposed tier of the weapon and melee system? If you guys are, then mistake.

IMO, it shouldn't.

I said in my very post that you quoted that a player's skill will also determine the outcome. If you are at a disadvantage and you have room to move (not in a corridor of some sort) then use your damn AA to get out of the situation. If you want to run away then jetpack or sprint away. If you want to fight use armor lock or invis to confuse your opponent. I can't even count the amount of times I had low health because I couldn't find a health pack and I found my self in a disadvantageous situation where I use my ability to escape or get a kill. Especially with AL in a close quartered situation. I see the guy trying to come at me with a melee so I AL and then come up immediately and kill him.

This game is harder than H3. Either adapt to the game and learn to play using the new tools at your disposal or don't and stop playing the game because you can't stand not being able to kill someone when you are at a disadvantage. Either way doesn't matter to me.

 

[Apath]

Shake Appeal's Definitive List of Things That in His Opinion Should Be Changed:

1. Grenade radius. Actual damage when they land on target is fine, it's the ridiculous distance they can get you from that bugs me, and that makes them cheap, especially as a wild, barely-aimed "fuck you" in a contest someone has already lost.
2. Hammer lunge. Pretty silly. When combined with Sprint, this is especially cheap and tacky.
I agree, but mainly because the Sword can be blocked, but the Hammer cannot.
3. Armour Lock. Remove the EMP effect when melee'd, as people are abusing it for instant shield drops in melee contests. Also, please address just when the effect begins and ends, as it doesn't seem to correspond to the animations.
I'd say the bigger problem with Armor Lock is how people will pop it for a second, continue fighting, and then use it again at convenience. But sure, as long as something about it is nerfed.
4. Plasma Launcher. When you told me this is a gun that rapidly fires up to four homing plasma grenades, I wondered what the catch would be. Turns out there is no catch. urk calls this "the comedy gun". I guess he means it's hilariously cheap.
Armor Lock owns the Plasma Launcher. I've only been killed by it a couple times though, so I can't really comment on it

Ta-da.

Everything else is grade-A golden.

.

 

[soldat7]

Everything else is superior (SUPERIOR), but Bungie needs to remove Temporal AA in the final release.

No, if it helps with jaggies, then no; keep it in. It's hardly noticeable after a game or two. Consider the horrible LOD issues of Halo 2 and the aliasing mess of Halo 3, I'll take a little tiny bit of ghosting every now and again.

 

[Subtervotion]

Uh...

Spoiler

It is impossible to get that stat anywhere close to 100%

:'(

 

[squicken]

Finally played some beeta today. Seems fun. I mostly use armor lock and all the Pros in FFA called me noob and worse for using it so I guess that's the best one.

The needler sniper, what am I doing wrong? I shoot people and nothing happens. Also, I've only played Sword Base. People vote for that all the time. Another reason democracy is dumb.

 

[Kapura]

Okay, lets say this, lets say I am more skilled than the opponent.

For this example my disadvantage is not having time to reload and encountering an enemy, and not having enough bullets to break their shields.

Being at a disadvantage doesn't mean I'm supposed to lose the battle. It means the battle is more difficult for me. Even if I can strafe and dodge some of the opponents shots, the extra time required to reload and break the enemies shields amplifies my disadvantage to a point which I FEEL is too great when you consider that initially, having less bullets in the magazine is not a HUGE disadvantage.

translation: I don't like dying.

If you were *truly* more skilled, you would either still win or not get into that situation in the first place. Think of it this way: The best football player in the world scores because he's in the right situation; he can't outplay everybody on the field simultaneously.

 

[urk]

FYI, we're only reading feedback if it's been bolded for impact.

 

[Dirtbag]

I find it hilarious that folks bitched and bitched about the flag radius being 3m in Halo 3 ("You can hide behind a rock and return it!") and then Bungie reduces it to "you have to be sitting on the flag to return it" and other folks - not necessarily Dirtbag here, but I've seen plenty of complaints - complain that you have to be totally exposed to return a flag. Bungie can't win.

I quite like the return timer dynamic, I also like touch return for 2 sided games. But its really no fun to have to sit directly on top of the flag to return it, and armor locking on top of the flag seems to be the only strategy for any real success which I think is total garbage. I don't understand who finds the current flag dynamics fun or at least more fun then the halo 3 version. Considering how fast a respawning enemy team can sprint or jetpack back to the flag spot, its really backwards to force the enemy to plant directly ontop of it to return it. TIE GAME TIE GAME TIE GAME

 

[Mo0]

Using absolutes to back-up your argument doesn't make sense?

And no, it's nothing like that.

In Reach, it's unfair because you're disadvantage DETERMINES the outcome of the fight.

But a good player should be able to get out of almost any situation. In Reach, it doesn't work that way at all. A grenade 20 feet away or a melee happy sprinter means you're fucked.

Uhhh....

 

[TommyT]

Using absolutes to back-up your argument doesn't make sense?

And no, it's nothing like that.



.



.

And melee time should be equal to the time it takes to switch weapons (at least to your pistol) and the time it takes to reload.

You're more than welcome to give an exact (see: to the last detail) scenario that supports your gripe, and I'll do just the same that counters it. THAT IS MY POINT.

 

[soldat7]

Shake Appeal's Definitive List of Things That in His Opinion Should Be Changed:

1. Grenade radius. Actual damage when they land on target is fine, it's the ridiculous distance they can get you from that bugs me, and that makes them cheap, especially as a wild, barely-aimed "fuck you" in a contest someone has already lost.

Grenades are perfect. They have a lot of bite and it's extremely satisfying laying that last egg right as you die and watching it 'splode in the turd's face that just killed you. Love it.

 

[Kapura]

Finally played some beeta today. Seems fun. I mostly use armor lock and all the Pros in FFA called me noob and worse for using it so I guess that's the best one.

The needler sniper, what am I doing wrong? I shoot people and nothing happens. Also, I've only played Sword Base. People vote for that all the time. Another reason democracy is dumb.

Armour lock is fine if you know how to use it.

The needle rifle isn't a sniper. It's like a Carbine from Halo 3, but with more pink asplosions. Your error comes in calling it a sniper rifle.

And for voting, I find it to be a pretty even split on the maps. Just play more; people are generally voting for the gametype over the map.

 

[feel]

I think Letters complained that the water looked bad in one of the vidocs compared to some water gifs bungie posted, and Urk said it was the same water.

I think I said it looked similar, but didn't react to anything anymore, which I've now confirmed to be correct. But if removing water physics is one of the things helping with how smooth and lag-free the majority of the matches are, then it's all good.

Thought this was pretty funny when it happened. Guy going to assassinate someone.. I make him dissapear. :lol

Now you see him..

:lol I love how he looks around going all wtf.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Uhhh....

Oh please >_____>

 

[Apath]

No, if it helps with jaggies, then no; keep it in. It's hardly noticeable after a game or two. Consider the horrible LOD issues of Halo 2 and the aliasing mess of Halo 3, I'll take a little tiny bit of ghosting every now and again.

I actually agree with this. If Temporal AA is what's keeping Reach from looking like a jagged mess like Halo 3 was, I'm all for some ghosting.

 

[big ander]

Show him this pic and ask him if H3 still looks better:

http://files.bungie.org/misc/riceatron_ComparisonofElite.jpg

(I didn't make it, Riceatron did. I just thought it was cool, and rehosted it because it's friggin' HUGE.)

Watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy_YOks5ahA

The whole thing is pretty useful, but for this discussion, watch the section starting at 1:20 (first four shots, pop shield, take a breath) You can VERY CLEARLY see the shield pop in all of his examples - and the next headshot kills.


Nothing makes me smile more in a game of Reach than watching someone armor lock over a flag, and running in, grabbing the flag, and heading off. They look so... pitiful frozen there. :lol

Sort of a Maginot Line, in Spartan form.

I find it hilarious that folks bitched and bitched about the flag radius being 3m in Halo 3 ("You can hide behind a rock and return it!") and then Bungie reduces it to "you have to be sitting on the flag to return it" and other folks - not necessarily Dirtbag here, but I've seen plenty of complaints - complain that you have to be totally exposed to return a flag. Bungie can't win.

Sweet picture.
And for flag radius: I feel like it should be somewhere in the middle of where it is now and where it was in Halo 3. But hopefully that will be an option to tweak in customs.

So I had my preferences set to fastest match, but I switched it to closest skill before a quick string of games during a study break. The next 5 games were awful. I got beat so badly. The highlight of the train wreck was this game where I went minus 7 with 4 kills. Just a slump, though, hopefully I'll bounce back. Unless it's matchmaking saying "fuck you, here are people way better than you, now get your face melted."

Well, tomorrow the floodgates open, so maybe I'll be able to feel good about myself after that.

 

[TommyT]

Oh please >_____>

You can't have it both ways... :lol

 

[Wizpig]

No, if it helps with jaggies, then no; keep it in. It's hardly noticeable after a game or two. Consider the horrible LOD issues of Halo 2 and the aliasing mess of Halo 3, I'll take a little tiny bit of ghosting every now and again.

Dude, it depends on the person and on the TV settings, I assure you I never get headaches from playing videogames but in Reach, after playing some hours, my head hurts.

What's LOD in Halo 2? textures-popping?
Of course I hate aliasing in Halo 3 too, just saying Bungie should try to use real AA and not Temporal AA since this is 30 FPS. (and also becase, I'm sorry to say this, there's still some aliasing... so it doesn't really solve anything)

 

[Shake Appeal]

The weird thing about the plasma launcher is I haven't been killed by it all that much. Do people not realize how ferocious this thing is? I so often find it uncontested, lying their innocently waiting for me to snag it and rain death. My k/d for it is approaching 3.

Probably insane to be complaining about a weapon not because I'm dying by it, but because it feels too easy to kill with.

 

[Apath]

Uhhh....

It's just funny because in Halo 3 if someone melees you first or gets a grenade off on you, you're much more likely to be fucked than in Halo Reach thanks to AA that you always have.

If a grenade lands by me I'll Armor Lock or sprint away. If someone charges at me I'll either melee back or Armor Lock and let them EMP themselves.

 

[TommyT]

Two words that best describe how the world

Spoiler

and Halo Reach

should work:

Spoiler

what if

 

[Kapura]

FYI, we're only reading feedback if it's been bolded for impact.

If anybody gets the subtle joke there, you're as much of a nerd as I am.

 

[Shake Appeal]

I really do love Reach, though. Love it. Won't touch Halo 3 again, no sir.

 

[Ramirez]

The weird thing about the plasma launcher is I haven't been killed by it all that much. Do people not realize how ferocious this thing is? I so often find it uncontested, lying their innocently waiting for me to snag it and rain death. My k/d for it is approaching 3.

Probably insane to be complaining about a weapon not because I'm dying by it, but because it feels too easy to kill with.

It is too easy to get kills with, I hate it. Like I said the other day, nothing better than a jetpack douche taking it to some high ledge on Sword Base and just racking kills up with it.

 

[urk]

I think I said it looked similar, but didn't react to anything anymore, which I've now confirmed to be correct. But if removing water physics is one of the things helping with how smooth and lag-free the majority of the matches are, then it's all good.

:lol

 

[big ander]

The weird thing about the plasma launcher is I haven't been killed by it all that much. Do people not realize how ferocious this thing is? I so often find it uncontested, lying their innocently waiting for me to snag it and rain death. My k/d for it is approaching 3.

Probably insane to be complaining about a weapon not because I'm dying by it, but because it feels too easy to kill with.

I've only been able to put my hands on it a couple times, and those times I wasn't able to do much with it. But when I hear beeping, I evade the hell away.

:lol

Letters, I think the water might still react to stuff.

 

[Achronos]

Not really. The current bnet stats is based on a picking an upper limit based on the size of the data field in the uploaded "blob" at the time of the beta. It will be adjusted based on whatever amount the designers settle on, with some extra space for a few "bnet only medals" that we may think up later. Those are medals that only appear on bnet and not the game (Halo 3 had two - Steaktacular and Linktacular).

Can you confirm a total amount of medals? Or at least give us a range? =)

 

[GhaleonEB]

The reason I replied is because Ghal said, "It makes no sense." I get that he doesn't enjoy it. Everybody does.

"Everybody"?

I get that you guys like the change, and want to defend the decision, and that it likely won't be changed. But seriously, don't do that. Not cool.

 

[Apath]

The weird thing about the plasma launcher is I haven't been killed by it all that much. Do people not realize how ferocious this thing is? I so often find it uncontested, lying their innocently waiting for me to snag it and rain death. My k/d for it is approaching 3.

Probably insane to be complaining about a weapon not because I'm dying by it, but because it feels too easy to kill with.

That's how I feel about Armor Lock :lol

Ive used the Plasma Launcher a couple of times, but mainly for breaking up groups of the enemy team surrounding an objective. Otherwise I hardly ever notice it on the map ={

 

[Princess Carl]

Just wanted to give a positive shout out.

The moving menus are AMAZING

I absolutely love the music and war sound effects.

 

[urk]

"Everybody"?

I get that you guys love it and it likely won't be changed. But seriously, don't do that. Not cool.

No, "everybody" as in everybody gets that you don't enjoy it. You're -110 with melee. Don't think I'd be having a fun time in that scenario either.

 

[Plywood]

FYI, we're only reading feedback if it's been bolded for impact.

$50 pricepoint.

This is a videogame.

Hi. =3

Neener neener

 

[Kapura]

Of course I hate aliasing in Halo 3 too, just saying Bungie should try to use real AA and not Temporal AA since this is 30 FPS. (and also becase, I'm sorry to say this, there's still some aliasing... so it doesn't really solve anything)

Of course! They would NEVER have thought to try that before you telling them! After all, running at 30 FPS gives them a lot of resources that are just idle in the game right now, they don't go anywhere else in the engine! Why didn't anybody ever think to use the loads and loads of extra processing power just lying around to try some AA?

Spoiler

Sarcasm. Halo has other shit going on. Deal with jaggies.

 

[Grady Durden]

I just played an oddball on Swordbase where it seemed that no one shot there weapons at all. It felt like it was solely grenades and melees.